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On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competition?
So what I mean is, they all meet each other on their very best night over 12 rounds. Take into consideration all factors, such as height e.t.c; e.g even if you think Rocky Marciano is the 'Greatest' heavyweight of all time, you surely would not expect him to beat Vitali Klitchko!
I think that some names that would not appear on the top 10 ATG list, would have a shout using this criteria.
Thoughts?
This is not about longjevity or legacy etc etc it's about one-on-one fights on their very best night.
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Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
I'm not sure who wins but I can GUARANTEE 100% that prime Tyson starts favourite. Visually in his pomp no-one would be laying that guy. And he'd carry my dough.
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Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
Ali would be the most logical choice. Holmes as my second pick and then Lewis/Tyson
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Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
On best night I couldn't argue against Ali.
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Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
It's hard to pick because for example, someone like Joe Frazier was special against Muhammad Ali in there 1st fight. And could of probably have beaten most Heavyweight's that night, but he'd still be a bad match up for someone like George Foreman.
Buster Douglas was special against Mike Tyson, but he's stamina was suspect so a tough fighter who could put on alot of pressure. Would get to him in the later rounds.
Mike Tyson's superb run against Michael Spinks, Trevor Berbick, Tyrell Biggs. On those night's he was special but he'd still struggle against a tall rangey boxer aka Holmes, Ali.
Larry Holmes was superb against Earnie Shavers in there 1st meeting, he showed pretty much every attribute you want in a Heavyweight. But i still think he would lose to a 1960's Muhammad Ali.
Riddick Bowe looked amazing against Evander Holyfield, but he'd still struggle against someone with a good jab which was his biggest weakness. See the Biggs, Tubbs, fights for example.
I think the one you could count on is a prime Muhammad Ali, he's a good height for a Heavyweight. And has so many strong attributes he hasn't got any real glaring weaknesses.
But then again he'd always struggle with Ken Norton, no matter when he fought him. It would really depend on who they were matched with in the Tournament.
But fighter's like.
Ali
Holmes
Tyson
Would probably be top finisher's as long as they didn't meet each other early in the tournament.
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Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
over the short distance wouldnt George Foreman have a chance , the free swinging destroyer who beheaded joe frazier ?
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Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
It's hard to pick because for example, someone like Joe Frazier was special against Muhammad Ali in there 1st fight. And could of probably have beaten most Heavyweight's that night, but he'd still be a bad match up for someone like George Foreman.
Buster Douglas was special against Mike Tyson, but he's stamina was suspect so a tough fighter who could put on alot of pressure. Would get to him in the later rounds.
Mike Tyson's superb run against Michael Spinks, Trevor Berbick, Tyrell Biggs. On those night's he was special but he'd still struggle against a tall rangey boxer aka Holmes, Ali.
Larry Holmes was superb against Earnie Shavers in there 1st meeting, he showed pretty much every attribute you want in a Heavyweight. But i still think he would lose to a 1960's Muhammad Ali.
Riddick Bowe looked amazing against Evander Holyfield, but he'd still struggle against someone with a good jab which was his biggest weakness. See the Biggs, Tubbs, fights for example.
I think the one you could count on is a prime Muhammad Ali, he's a good height for a Heavyweight. And has so many strong attributes he hasn't got any real glaring weaknesses.
But then again he'd always struggle with Ken Norton, no matter when he fought him. It would really depend on who they were matched with in the Tournament.
But fighter's like.
Ali
Holmes
Tyson
Would probably be top finisher's as long as they didn't meet each other early in the tournament.
They all have to fight each other! Is there anybody that wouldn't lose? I don't think there is.
I'd pick either Ali or Tyson as having the best chance of not losing, followed by Holmes I guess.
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Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
over the short distance wouldnt George Foreman have a chance , the free swinging destroyer who beheaded joe frazier ?
Possible, but I think the Ali and Foreman were pretty level in terms of their closeness to prime when they fought in 1974 and look what happened :-\
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Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
It's hard to pick because for example, someone like Joe Frazier was special against Muhammad Ali in there 1st fight. And could of probably have beaten most Heavyweight's that night, but he'd still be a bad match up for someone like George Foreman.
Buster Douglas was special against Mike Tyson, but he's stamina was suspect so a tough fighter who could put on alot of pressure. Would get to him in the later rounds.
Mike Tyson's superb run against Michael Spinks, Trevor Berbick, Tyrell Biggs. On those night's he was special but he'd still struggle against a tall rangey boxer aka Holmes, Ali.
Larry Holmes was superb against Earnie Shavers in there 1st meeting, he showed pretty much every attribute you want in a Heavyweight. But i still think he would lose to a 1960's Muhammad Ali.
Riddick Bowe looked amazing against Evander Holyfield, but he'd still struggle against someone with a good jab which was his biggest weakness. See the Biggs, Tubbs, fights for example.
I think the one you could count on is a prime Muhammad Ali, he's a good height for a Heavyweight. And has so many strong attributes he hasn't got any real glaring weaknesses.
But then again he'd always struggle with Ken Norton, no matter when he fought him. It would really depend on who they were matched with in the Tournament.
But fighter's like.
Ali
Holmes
Tyson
Would probably be top finisher's as long as they didn't meet each other early in the tournament.
They all have to fight each other! Is there anybody that wouldn't lose? I don't think there is.
I'd pick either Ali or Tyson as having the best chance of not losing, followed by Holmes I guess.
Oh right so its basically who has the most win's after fighting everyone ? well i don't think my list changes. I think the top 3 would be Ali, Holmes, Tyson.
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Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
Lewis would be there or there abouts at the end
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Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
Sorry i thought we were talking about the short prizefighter format ,
over 12 rounds Lennox Lewis wins for me.
short format Prime George Foreman has a good chance.
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Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
over the short distance wouldnt George Foreman have a chance , the free swinging destroyer who beheaded joe frazier ?
Possible, but I think the Ali and Foreman were pretty level in terms of their closeness to prime when they fought in 1974 and look what happened :-\
You should check out his fight vs Gregorio Peralta, he was a good boxer a veteran. And he laid down the blue print on how to beat George Foreman, who was tired and frustrated at the end of the fight.
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Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
I couldn't see ANYONE stopping a Prime Tyson over 3 rounds!
He was so explosive early on in his fights and that Tyson could easily sustain the attack.
If someone like Ali or Lewis rode him out for 3 rounds he'd surely nick it on points due to punches thrown.
To be honest it'd take at least 2 rounds to weather the storm.
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Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
Quote:
Originally Posted by
smashup
I couldn't see ANYONE stopping a Prime Tyson over 3 rounds!
He was so explosive early on in his fights and that Tyson could easily sustain the attack.
If someone like Ali or Lewis rode him out for 3 rounds he'd surely nick it on points due to punches thrown.
To be honest it'd take at least 2 rounds to weather the storm.
Yea Mike Tyson never had a stoppage late on, but you would have to go through hell to get to the later rounds. As Razor Ruddock found out broken ribs and a broken jaw ouch.
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Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
Quote:
Originally Posted by
smashup
I couldn't see ANYONE stopping a Prime Tyson over 3 rounds!
He was so explosive early on in his fights and that Tyson could easily sustain the attack.
If someone like Ali or Lewis rode him out for 3 rounds he'd surely nick it on points due to punches thrown.
To be honest it'd take at least 2 rounds to weather the storm.
Talking about 12 round tourny fella ;)
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Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
smashup
I couldn't see ANYONE stopping a Prime Tyson over 3 rounds!
He was so explosive early on in his fights and that Tyson could easily sustain the attack.
If someone like Ali or Lewis rode him out for 3 rounds he'd surely nick it on points due to punches thrown.
To be honest it'd take at least 2 rounds to weather the storm.
Talking about 12 round tourny fella ;)
FUCKSAKES;D
I'll need to give that some thought then fella!!;D
Prime Lewis or Ali jumps out!
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Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
Tyson at his absolute physical peak, bringing his upmost intensity would of won the most fights, I think.
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Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
IMO Lewis and Vitali Klit are the 2 best heavyweights of all time
over 12 rounds it would be between those 2
3 rounds of 3 in one night might be different
probably tyson at his peak
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Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
Prime for prime I would go with Lennox Lewis. Hed be too fired up for this to come in unprepared.
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Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
IMO Lewis and Vitali Klit are the 2 best heavyweights of all time
over 12 rounds it would be between those 2
3 rounds of 3 in one night might be different
probably tyson at his peak
That's quite interesting!
I would love to know how good Vitali really is. He could be the greatest of all time or he could just be a giant plodding robot that got lucky with the weakest era ever. I really don't know :-\ He was probably at his peak when he fought Lewis and Lewis was an old man and completely under prepared, so Vitali should've done a job on him imo.
Dunno!
I would say he definitely deserves a place in this tourny tho.
So does Bowe (if we are talking about 'best ever nights')
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Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
I reckon Ali beats everybody
Tyson beats everybody except Ali
Holmes beats everybody except Ali & Tyson
Lewis beats everybody except Ali, Lewis & Holmes
Foreman beats everybody except Lewis, Ali, Tyson & Holmes
Dunno about the rest ;D
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Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
IMO Lewis and Vitali Klit are the 2 best heavyweights of all time
over 12 rounds it would be between those 2
3 rounds of 3 in one night might be different
probably tyson at his peak
That's quite interesting!
I would love to know how good Vitali really is. He could be the greatest of all time or he could just be a giant plodding robot that got lucky with the weakest era ever. I really don't know :-\ He was probably at his peak when he fought Lewis and Lewis was an old man and completely under prepared, so Vitali should've done a job on him imo.
Dunno!
I would say he definitely deserves a place in this tourny tho.
So does Bowe (if we are talking about 'best ever nights')
the lewis klit fight was disapointing in many ways, i dont think either was really prepared properly and the ending was less than satisfying
i reckon at peak both are too big and punch too hard for ali
I think ali is over rated but i wont go into that now :)
the line up i would like to see
Lennox Lewis
Vitali Klit
Tyson
Ali
Joe Lewis
Foreman
Bruno
Holmes, hollyfield or bowe
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Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
Yeh, size could be the key mate. I mean did Ali ever fight anybody over 220? Even 'Big' George Foreman was only 220. He fought big guys like Terrell, but he was still probaly what 205? 210? The 'Drago's are both a solid 240 -250
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Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Yeh, size could be the key mate. I mean did Ali ever fight anybody over 220? Even 'Big' George Foreman was only 220. He fought big guys like Terrell, but he was still probaly what 205? 210? The 'Drago's are both a solid 240 -250
some of the big names from yesteryear would be cruisers now wouldnt they?
i bet Ali himself wasnt far off
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Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
Vitali Klitschko the best Heavyweight ever along with Lennox Lewis ? LOL sorry that made me laugh hysterically. Based on what exactly ? outside of the Lennox Lewis fight his career has been very average. I mean his best win is probably against Corrie Sanders.
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Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
I reckon Ali beats everybody
Tyson beats everybody except Ali
Holmes beats everybody except Ali & Tyson
Lewis beats everybody except Ali, Lewis & Holmes
Foreman beats everybody except Lewis, Ali, Tyson & Holmes
Dunno about the rest ;D
Sorry, but Foreman wrecks Tyson...Tyson didn't even want to fight George in the 90's!!!
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Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
over the short distance wouldnt George Foreman have a chance , the free swinging destroyer who beheaded joe frazier ?
Possible, but I think the Ali and Foreman were pretty level in terms of their closeness to prime when they fought in 1974 and look what happened :-\
You should check out his fight vs Gregorio Peralta, he was a good boxer a veteran. And he laid down the blue print on how to beat George Foreman, who was tired and frustrated at the end of the fight.
Yes the problem with that is Foreman was not in his prime for that fight , and one would have to presume he learned from the fight.
This is why its so hard to compare era's.
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Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
over the short distance wouldnt George Foreman have a chance , the free swinging destroyer who beheaded joe frazier ?
Possible, but I think the Ali and Foreman were pretty level in terms of their closeness to prime when they fought in 1974 and look what happened :-\
You should check out his fight vs Gregorio Peralta, he was a good boxer a veteran. And he laid down the blue print on how to beat George Foreman, who was tired and frustrated at the end of the fight.
Yes the problem with that is Foreman was not in his prime for that fight , and one would have to presume he learned from the fight.
This is why its so hard to compare era's.
In the rematch he supposedly stopped him late on, i'd love to see the rematch because George Foreman had stamina problems in his early career. So its quite impressive he scored a 10th round stoppage over a solid fighter with good boxing skills.
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Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
I read it as three round fights too. 12 rounders is different. Tyson would still start favourite but Lewis would win the whole thing.
I can't properly judge the fossils. I wasn't alive when they were in their pomp, most of what i've seen is just the good/memorable bits, so have no real understanding of the overall strength of the particular era.
Ali would have looked like a proper powderpuff puncher vs Vitali. That leads me to think Vitali would beat him.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
I read it as three round fights too. 12 rounders is different. Tyson would still start favourite but Lewis would win the whole thing.
I can't properly judge the fossils. I wasn't alive when they were in their pomp, most of what i've seen is just the good/memorable bits, so have no real understanding of the overall strength of the particular era.
Ali would have looked like a proper powderpuff puncher vs Vitali. That leads me to think Vitali would beat him.
....The "Quote Another Member" thread is in a different section ;D
Just take note forum members as to who actually posted what and don't get your facts twisted
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Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
I am on side with Eric on this one I'm afraid :-\
Overall, on their best days, Vitali, Wladimir & Lennox all had 1 punch KO dynamite in their fists and each boxed with a magnificent degree of sophistication.
They all have styles that are greatly effective and simple (which is the height of sophistication ;) ). And they are fucking HUGE!
Too big to be fucked with.
Holyfield, Tyson & Foreman ( The Bad Guys :cool:)... Particularly Holyfield would pose the greatest threat of being bogeymen.
Actually Holyfield would probably beat all three guys more times outta 10 than any other boxer I can think of. BUT overall, if every credible Heavyweight Champion in history fought one another, Vitali, Wladimir & Lennox would definitely come out on top.
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Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Vitali Klitschko the best Heavyweight ever along with Lennox Lewis ? LOL sorry that made me laugh hysterically. Based on what exactly ? outside of the Lennox Lewis fight his career has been very average. I mean his best win is probably against Corrie Sanders.
just based on what i see
you dont have to have the same opinion
IMO having Ali as the best heavyweight of all time is stupid talk
ok maybe he is greatest in what he represented and how he moved the sport forward and what he achieved outside the ring, i wouldnt disagree with that, but in the ring? Naaaaaaaaaaaaa
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Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Vitali Klitschko the best Heavyweight ever along with Lennox Lewis ? LOL sorry that made me laugh hysterically. Based on what exactly ? outside of the Lennox Lewis fight his career has been very average. I mean his best win is probably against Corrie Sanders.
just based on what i see
you dont have to have the same opinion
IMO having Ali as the best heavyweight of all time is stupid talk
ok maybe he is greatest in what he represented and how he moved the sport forward and what he achieved outside the ring, i wouldnt disagree with that, but in the ring? Naaaaaaaaaaaaa
He beat arguably 3 of the best 10 heavyweights in history, all in their prime (Liston, Frazier & Foreman) Nobody in history can claim that.
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Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Vitali Klitschko the best Heavyweight ever along with Lennox Lewis ? LOL sorry that made me laugh hysterically. Based on what exactly ? outside of the Lennox Lewis fight his career has been very average. I mean his best win is probably against Corrie Sanders.
just based on what i see
you dont have to have the same opinion
IMO having Ali as the best heavyweight of all time is stupid talk
ok maybe he is greatest in what he represented and how he moved the sport forward and what he achieved outside the ring, i wouldnt disagree with that, but in the ring? Naaaaaaaaaaaaa
He beat arguably 3 of the best 10 heavyweights in history, all in their prime (Liston, Frazier & Foreman) Nobody in history can claim that.
Era's are different for sure , but liston a slow slugger , frazier a 6 foot slugger , and big george a 16 stone four fighter , todays hw are just massive in comparison , its just so hard to compare.
For instance, all athletic track and field world records are getting better each year , so why not fighters ?
People say Lewis didnt fight anyone like Ali , well Ali never fought anyone like Lewis or the brothers Grim. Liston was very limited in fairness.
The debate will go on and on , we all have our views , but Ali brings very little power to the table in this modern era , and how fast would he be in clinches with guys 17stone 11 , who have speed, power and skills?
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Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
I read it as three round fights too. 12 rounders is different. Tyson would still start favourite but Lewis would win the whole thing.
I can't properly judge the fossils. I wasn't alive when they were in their pomp, most of what i've seen is just the good/memorable bits, so have no real understanding of the overall strength of the particular era.
Ali would have looked like a proper powderpuff puncher vs Vitali. That leads me to think Vitali would beat him.
....The "Quote Another Member" thread is in a different section ;D
Just take note forum members as to who actually posted what and don't get your facts twisted
Have i repeated something you've said? Clearly one of your better views.
For the record - Wlad has zero chance against any of the named greats. No chin and far to saftey first for any legendary heavyweight.
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Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Have i repeated something you've said? Clearly one of your better views.
For the record - Wlad has zero chance against any of the named greats. No chin and far to saftey first for any legendary heavyweight.
No you haven't repeated anything I've said I just wanted to make a joke at my own expense and point out that you (and not I) posted that....since I catch so much hell for my views.
Yeah you're right, Wlad's the only ever heavyweight to use defense, everyone else just allowed themselves to get punched.
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Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Vitali Klitschko the best Heavyweight ever along with Lennox Lewis ? LOL sorry that made me laugh hysterically. Based on what exactly ? outside of the Lennox Lewis fight his career has been very average. I mean his best win is probably against Corrie Sanders.
just based on what i see
you dont have to have the same opinion
IMO having Ali as the best heavyweight of all time is stupid talk
ok maybe he is greatest in what he represented and how he moved the sport forward and what he achieved outside the ring, i wouldnt disagree with that, but in the ring? Naaaaaaaaaaaaa
He beat arguably 3 of the best 10 heavyweights in history, all in their prime (Liston, Frazier & Foreman) Nobody in history can claim that.
Era's are different for sure , but liston a slow slugger , frazier a 6 foot slugger , and big george a 16 stone four fighter , todays hw are just massive in comparison , its just so hard to compare.
For instance, all athletic track and field world records are getting better each year , so why not fighters ?
People say Lewis didnt fight anyone like Ali , well Ali never fought anyone like Lewis or the brothers Grim. Liston was very limited in fairness.
The debate will go on and on , we all have our views , but Ali brings very little power to the table in this modern era , and how fast would he be in clinches with guys 17stone 11 , who have speed, power and skills?
Yeh, good points all around mate. It's very hard to compare eras, the size thing is a big factor. In terms of things improving, I agree again, but I still, think that SRR is the greatest fighter I have ever watched (but size doesn't come into that debate admitedly)
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Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Vitali Klitschko the best Heavyweight ever along with Lennox Lewis ? LOL sorry that made me laugh hysterically. Based on what exactly ? outside of the Lennox Lewis fight his career has been very average. I mean his best win is probably against Corrie Sanders.
just based on what i see
you dont have to have the same opinion
IMO having Ali as the best heavyweight of all time is stupid talk
ok maybe he is greatest in what he represented and how he moved the sport forward and what he achieved outside the ring, i wouldnt disagree with that, but in the ring? Naaaaaaaaaaaaa
He beat arguably 3 of the best 10 heavyweights in history, all in their prime (Liston, Frazier & Foreman) Nobody in history can claim that.
i also think (size aside) Liston and Frazier are only thought of so highly because of the era they fought in
if they fought in other eras when ali wasnt around and boxing wasnt such big news i wouldnt have thought they would have such high stock
I would agree foreman is one of the best ever
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Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
It can easily be argued that Liston's prime was before his championship years and that Fraizer was close to shot after the 1st Foreman fight.
Also, I'm convinced that 9 times outta 10, Foreman murders Ali... I mean, Ali did it and I'm not knocking his achievements but they can get easily inflated.
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Re: On their very best night who wins the all time heavyweight prizefighter competiti
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jimanuel Boogustus
It can easily be argued that Liston's prime was before his championship years and that Fraizer was close to shot after the 1st Foreman fight.
Also, I'm convinced that 9 times outta 10, Foreman murders Ali... I mean, Ali did it and I'm not knocking his achievements but they can get easily inflated.
i agree, i think at the time of the fight ali would have lost to george the vast majority of the time
maybe a younger ali would have taken foreman i dunno
