Do you believe that Antonio Margarito only attempted to use loaded wraps for the Shane Mosley fight? Do you think he had used them before that fight or at multiple occasions during his career?
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Do you believe that Antonio Margarito only attempted to use loaded wraps for the Shane Mosley fight? Do you think he had used them before that fight or at multiple occasions during his career?
Discuss
im not sure its certainly posible
Mosely isnt exactly innocent of cheating himself tho :)
Fair enoughQuote:
Originally Posted by erics44
All I will point to with Margarito is his record since he was caught cheating 1-2 with 0 Knockouts.
Also since the BALCO scandal broke in 2002 Mosley's record ain't all that geat either, though Shane has gotten older anyway so it's kind of harder to determine how much roids helped him.
I truly hope the allegations are not true. I saw Magarito fight when he was 18 years old, against Alfred Ankamah at the Forum in LA, and was very impressed by his toughness. Ankamah- who was 14-2, 14KOs at the time- hit him a terrific shot to the liver and Magarito dropped; it was the kind of shot that ends fights. But he got up and kod Ankamah in the next round. He has never been the most skilled fighter, and if I stood up right now and threw a few punches, at least one is likely to hit him, but Magarito has always been very strong, tough and determined.
About the wraps... I'm not too clear on how that would work in the first place; I just can't picture how you could, in essence, put casts on a guys hands, have them harden in time for the fight, and then put gloves on over them. Also, wouldn't his arms get awfully heavy as the fight progressed? And Magarito didn't knock out too many guys early- in fact he tended to come on late. Did he, in theory, do this in every fight? How come he didn't stop Williams, then? He hit him with some really clean right hands...
In the Cotto fight, I thought Magarito would be too big and strong for Cotto and would stop him late anyway. Cotto didn't take punches all that well against Torres and his punch is the left hook to the body which means he's going to exchanging punches with a bigger stronger guy. I didn't see anything unexpected happen in that fight.
The Cotto fight is used as evidence to say to say we think so, but there isn't enough fight evidence after Cotto to prove it either. I can't really say he did or didn't. Let him fight Martinez and Paul Williams again.
For me he used them vs Cotto. Cotto's face was worsening with each punch!
As for evidence of that, all we have are pictures....Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyu
http://www.boxingrepublic.com/wp-con...-Margarito.jpg
...after the Cotto fight.
You can see (unless you're blind or a fanboy) that something is obviously wrong with his wraps...now if you're the NSAC and you just "allowed" a fighter to use loaded wraps and didn't do anything about it, then you'd better cover your ass and deny everything and lose any evidence that might say otherwise, which is precisely what happened.
Maybe the athletic commissions can require all fight gloves and wraps be removed in the ring for inspection after the fights. Not really a time consuming task, many fighters do it anyway so I don't see why anyone would object to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongAs for evidence of that, all we have are pictures....Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyu
http://www.boxingrepublic.com/wp-con...-Margarito.jpg
...after the Cotto fight.
You can see (unless you're blind or a fanboy) that something is obviously wrong with his wraps...now if you're the NSAC and you just "allowed" a fighter to use loaded wraps and didn't do anything about it, then you'd better cover your ass and deny everything and lose any evidence that might say otherwise, which is precisely what happened.
Very true, but that would involve proper oversight, non-smarmy people, and common sense and well, this is boxingQuote:
Originally Posted by fan johnny
They do inspect them right after the fight. Not thoroughly though.Quote:
Originally Posted by fan johnnyMaybe the athletic commissions can require all fight gloves and wraps be removed in the ring for inspection after the fights. Not really a time consuming task, many fighters do it anyway so I don't see why anyone would object to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongAs for evidence of that, all we have are pictures....Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyu
http://www.boxingrepublic.com/wp-con...-Margarito.jpg
...after the Cotto fight.
You can see (unless you're blind or a fanboy) that something is obviously wrong with his wraps...now if you're the NSAC and you just "allowed" a fighter to use loaded wraps and didn't do anything about it, then you'd better cover your ass and deny everything and lose any evidence that might say otherwise, which is precisely what happened.
Ah.. no they don't! I've seen many a fighter leave the ring and others doing interviews with the wraps on and they never get inspected. So I highly doubt it is in the rule books. The wraps are inspected and signed inspected before the fight not after.Quote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::They do inspect them right after the fight. Not thoroughly though.Quote:
Originally Posted by fan johnnyMaybe the athletic commissions can require all fight gloves and wraps be removed in the ring for inspection after the fights. Not really a time consuming task, many fighters do it anyway so I don't see why anyone would object to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongAs for evidence of that, all we have are pictures....Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyu
http://www.boxingrepublic.com/wp-con...-Margarito.jpg
...after the Cotto fight.
You can see (unless you're blind or a fanboy) that something is obviously wrong with his wraps...now if you're the NSAC and you just "allowed" a fighter to use loaded wraps and didn't do anything about it, then you'd better cover your ass and deny everything and lose any evidence that might say otherwise, which is precisely what happened.
I don't think it's mandatory for the commisioner guys to check the gloves after the fight. But I've seen some of them eyeballs the removing of gloves. Check out last Pacquiao's or the Donaire fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by fan johnnyAh.. no they don't! I've seen many a fighter leave the ring and others doing interviews with the wraps on and they never get inspected. So I highly doubt it is in the rule books. The wraps are inspected and signed inspected before the fight not after.Quote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::They do inspect them right after the fight. Not thoroughly though.Quote:
Originally Posted by fan johnnyMaybe the athletic commissions can require all fight gloves and wraps be removed in the ring for inspection after the fights. Not really a time consuming task, many fighters do it anyway so I don't see why anyone would object to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongAs for evidence of that, all we have are pictures....Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyu
http://www.boxingrepublic.com/wp-con...-Margarito.jpg
...after the Cotto fight.
You can see (unless you're blind or a fanboy) that something is obviously wrong with his wraps...now if you're the NSAC and you just "allowed" a fighter to use loaded wraps and didn't do anything about it, then you'd better cover your ass and deny everything and lose any evidence that might say otherwise, which is precisely what happened.
You might be right about an inspection, but its more likely the responsibility would then be with sanctioning body rather than the commission. For the sanctioning body, there is no accountability if they fuk it up. For the commission to fuk up, it's a whole different thing. If it is in the rules and the responsibility is with the commission then the wraps and gloves condition would be kept in a log or something like it and we would have known if Margarito's wraps were loaded.Quote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::I don't think it's mandatory for the commisioner guys to check the gloves after the fight. But I've seen some of them eyeballs the removing of gloves. Check out last Pacquiao's or the Donaire fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by fan johnnyAh.. no they don't! I've seen many a fighter leave the ring and others doing interviews with the wraps on and they never get inspected. So I highly doubt it is in the rule books. The wraps are inspected and signed inspected before the fight not after.Quote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::They do inspect them right after the fight. Not thoroughly though.Quote:
Originally Posted by fan johnnyMaybe the athletic commissions can require all fight gloves and wraps be removed in the ring for inspection after the fights. Not really a time consuming task, many fighters do it anyway so I don't see why anyone would object to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongAs for evidence of that, all we have are pictures....Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyu
...after the Cotto fight.
You can see (unless you're blind or a fanboy) that something is obviously wrong with his wraps...now if you're the NSAC and you just "allowed" a fighter to use loaded wraps and didn't do anything about it, then you'd better cover your ass and deny everything and lose any evidence that might say otherwise, which is precisely what happened.
You cannot trust officials some of them do not know what they are doing. Cotto's people should have made sure Marg gloves were not loaded, but as Pac Man said, Marg cannot say he never knew.
Like I just said in the other thread. It's very unlikely that after 42 fights and having just being in with a 32-0 Cotto, that he would decide that a 38 year old Mosely would be the first fight that he decided to and felt the need to tamper with his wraps, I mean 'come on' !!!Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Margarito didn't use loaded gloves, just like OJ Simpson didn't kill his wife.
...and Bill Clinton didn't shove a Cigarre up Monica Lewinski's clout ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
I say no because i cant really point out when he used then also he has never been know for his punching power at all. I think if he did load his gloves Cotto would of been knocked out sooner and Willaims would of been stop as well. But it doesn't really matter now because all we can do is guess when he tried to load his gloves, or that he never loading them at all.
i think it is unlikely that he used loaded gloves. he could have but if he had used them before in other fights wouldnt he have gotten caught using them? or attempting to use them?:confused:
Not really. Luis Resto did not knock Billy Collins Jr. out with loaded gloves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Luis Resto admitted that his trainer tampered with the gloves at least twice before the Collins fight and no one even suspected it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesus "Weirdo" Medina
Richardson was just observant enough to have caught the loaded wraps on Margarito.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG HLike I just said in the other thread. It's very unlikely that after 42 fights and having just being in with a 32-0 Cotto, that he would decide that a 38 year old Mosely would be the first fight that he decided to and felt the need to tamper with his wraps, I mean 'come on' !!!Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Ahhhhhh...... pre-CISE-ly.... my dear Watson.
:detective:
This f...ing cheater should not be allowed to fight anymore. Of course is very likely that he had used the loaded wraps before. Probably we can guess when he started loooking at the frequency of his KOs.
Absolutely sure he did cheat before, he was not near as damaging in the Mosely, Garcia and Pacquiao fights. This guy is a freakin bully and cheat I hate him.
im not sure you can use margaritos record against him like thatQuote:
Originally Posted by El KabongFair enoughQuote:
Originally Posted by erics44
All I will point to with Margarito is his record since he was caught cheating 1-2 with 0 Knockouts.
Also since the BALCO scandal broke in 2002 Mosley's record ain't all that geat either, though Shane has gotten older anyway so it's kind of harder to determine how much roids helped him.
he lost to mosely but he had just been caught, i reckon when you get to that level the affect that that can have on you mentally can lose you the fight
his other loss was against pac and i thought he put in a decent performance when you compare it to pacs other recent opponents
Whilst I believe Marg did cheat I was impressed by his performance against Pac Man and believe he does deserve to fight Cotto.
I think Cotto takes him apart this time!Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Loaded wraps or not, Cotto couldn't even make Margarito flinch with all the punches he received straight to his face and body. Unless Margarito dipped himself in plaster before the fight:rolleyes:.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuI think Cotto takes him apart this time!Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
This has always puzzled me, but I believe that the mental/psychological edge of having loaded wraps helps a fighter's chin or at least it gives them the courage to take punishment as they know full well that the beating they are handing out is much more painful and destructive to anything they might receive.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChinoLoaded wraps or not, Cotto couldn't even make Margarito flinch with all the punches he received straight to his face and body. Unless Margarito dipped himself in plaster before the fight:rolleyes:.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuI think Cotto takes him apart this time!Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Look at Margarito fight vs Mosley...he attempted to use his same style but he was a little more timid after feeling Shane's punches which wouldn't have happened if Margarito had his loaded wraps...just my opinion though.
Look at Resto vs Collins...by all means Collins nailed Resto with plenty of power shots that really should have hurt him or stopped him or slowed him down and in previous fights it would have, but he had loaded wraps AND gloves that had been tampered with and that gave Resto the courage (and I use that term ever so loosely in describing what he felt) to keep attacking Collins.
I think loaded wraps gives a fighter a mental edge plain and simple....we'll see how this plays out with Cotto-Margarito II though, I think Miguel can stop him this go round.
Sorry mate but i disagree with you on this - if your clocked with a knockout punch it doesn't matter if your dressed in chain mail, have glass tapped to your fists and spikes in your boots - 9/10 you are going to go down. Wether Maragrito used loaded wraps or not in the cotto fight - there is no denying that he had/has a granite chin and Cotto hit him with everything he had. This is why he lost he went out and executed his game plan to perfection and Margarito just kept coming at him.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongThis has always puzzled me, but I believe that the mental/psychological edge of having loaded wraps helps a fighter's chin or at least it gives them the courage to take punishment as they know full well that the beating they are handing out is much more painful and destructive to anything they might receive.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChinoLoaded wraps or not, Cotto couldn't even make Margarito flinch with all the punches he received straight to his face and body. Unless Margarito dipped himself in plaster before the fight:rolleyes:.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuI think Cotto takes him apart this time!Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Look at Margarito fight vs Mosley...he attempted to use his same style but he was a little more timid after feeling Shane's punches which wouldn't have happened if Margarito had his loaded wraps...just my opinion though.
Look at Resto vs Collins...by all means Collins nailed Resto with plenty of power shots that really should have hurt him or stopped him or slowed him down and in previous fights it would have, but he had loaded wraps AND gloves that had been tampered with and that gave Resto the courage (and I use that term ever so loosely in describing what he felt) to keep attacking Collins.
I think loaded wraps gives a fighter a mental edge plain and simple....we'll see how this plays out with Cotto-Margarito II though, I think Miguel can stop him this go round.
Anyone who thinks that was the first time is INCREDIBLY niave. The guy spends years toiling on undercards and working his way up, he finally gets his huge PPV win against Cotto, and NOW he decided to cheat against a washed up Mosley? There's no way any rational thinking mind can buy that.
Why would he risk it in such a high profile fight? Obviously, because he was confident that he would get away with it. And keep in mind HE WOULD HAVE GOTTEN AWAY WITH IT if it wasn't for Mosley's camp. How long has he been using them before the Mosley fight? Who knows. But be sure he used them and got away with it in previous fight(s).
Us boxing fans (and sports fans in general) have this incredibly niave notion that cheating doesn't prosper, and that it doesn't go on. Reality is a bit different. Whenever the "cheating" discussion is brought up, you always hear people say "Nah he's not cheating, he doesn't seem like that kind of person". We don't know these guys, and cheaters come with all sorts of different personalities.
You hit the nail on the head...it's just like with Barry Bonds, apparently we the simple minded sports fans are supposed to believe that everyone BUT Barry Bonds knew that Balco and Greg Anderson were giving them steroids.....I mean that's just so ridiculous it's laughable.
I'm not sure you can say that Margarito hasn't looked good lately because he hasn't been loading his wraps. He turned pro at 15, so he's been fighting a long time. As to whether or not he has used illegal wraps his whole career, I don't know. It would be interesting to me to know how many different trainers/guys wrapping his hands he has had over the years. If the number was one, that being the guy he got rid of after the Mosley fight I'd be more apt to believe that it was not an isolated occurence. If it was several different guys, and we knew for sure that this had gone on with each or most of them, then I think it would indicate that his is not an isolated case and that this sort of thing is more common than we might think. If you think about it...Haven't you noticed how some fighters never seem to mark up their opponents while others do tremendous damage? Gunboat Smith, 40 years ago, was amazed that any damage was ever done with the "pillows" used for gloves at that time, and now the padding has increased considerably since then.
You've just hit the nail on the head mate.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChinoLoaded wraps or not, Cotto couldn't even make Margarito flinch with all the punches he received straight to his face and body. Unless Margarito dipped himself in plaster before the fight:rolleyes:.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuI think Cotto takes him apart this time!Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
You have a point. However.... I think the reason the punches had little effect is the way Cotto threw them. He never really committed to the punches.... they were thrown from the back foot. Compare that to Mosley, who took Margarito apart by throwing himself into his punches. Hopefully, Emanuel Stewart will have corrected that strategy, and Cotto's punches will be more effective. After all, Cotto does not have a history of being a soft puncher. The one thing that worries me is the mental aspect.... as Cotto suffered a lot of punishment in their first fight, probably as a result of the loaded wraps. How else to explain the abnormal damage to Cotto's face? A bit of sweet justice was handed out by Pacquaio, who proceeded to bust up Margacheato's face WITHOUT the use of suspect wraps. Cotto's pretty strong mentally, so.... although Margacheato does not DESERVE a 2nd fight.... you can't rule Cotto out.
Cotto threw the punches on the back foot once he started to get hurt but not at the first half of the fight. Cotto still can pack a punch back pedal or not. Margarito still walked through them without even showing any signs of getting hurt. We might see a different fight considering how Cotto has changed trainer and may feel more comfortable after his last fights. Let's wait and see.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by ChinoLoaded wraps or not, Cotto couldn't even make Margarito flinch with all the punches he received straight to his face and body. Unless Margarito dipped himself in plaster before the fight:rolleyes:.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuI think Cotto takes him apart this time!Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
You have a point. However.... I think the reason the punches had little effect is the way Cotto threw them. He never really committed to the punches.... they were thrown from the back foot. Compare that to Mosley, who took Margarito apart by throwing himself into his punches. Hopefully, Emanuel Stewart will have corrected that strategy, and Cotto's punches will be more effective. After all, Cotto does not have a history of being a soft puncher. The one thing that worries me is the mental aspect.... as Cotto suffered a lot of punishment in their first fight, probably as a result of the loaded wraps. How else to explain the abnormal damage to Cotto's face? A bit of sweet justice was handed out by Pacquaio, who proceeded to bust up Margacheato's face WITHOUT the use of suspect wraps. Cotto's pretty strong mentally, so.... although Margacheato does not DESERVE a 2nd fight.... you can't rule Cotto out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChinoCotto threw the punches on the back foot once he started to get hurt but not at the first half of the fight. Cotto still can pack a punch back pedal or not. Margarito still walked through them without even showing any signs of getting hurt. We might see a different fight considering how Cotto has changed trainer and may feel more comfortable after his last fights. Let's wait and see.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by ChinoLoaded wraps or not, Cotto couldn't even make Margarito flinch with all the punches he received straight to his face and body. Unless Margarito dipped himself in plaster before the fight:rolleyes:.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuI think Cotto takes him apart this time!Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
You have a point. However.... I think the reason the punches had little effect is the way Cotto threw them. He never really committed to the punches.... they were thrown from the back foot. Compare that to Mosley, who took Margarito apart by throwing himself into his punches. Hopefully, Emanuel Stewart will have corrected that strategy, and Cotto's punches will be more effective. After all, Cotto does not have a history of being a soft puncher. The one thing that worries me is the mental aspect.... as Cotto suffered a lot of punishment in their first fight, probably as a result of the loaded wraps. How else to explain the abnormal damage to Cotto's face? A bit of sweet justice was handed out by Pacquaio, who proceeded to bust up Margacheato's face WITHOUT the use of suspect wraps. Cotto's pretty strong mentally, so.... although Margacheato does not DESERVE a 2nd fight.... you can't rule Cotto out.
I have to say, I never watched the fight again (didn't want to). But if I remember correctly from the 1st time, most of Cotto's combinations to Margarito's head (even from the beginning of the fight), came while Cotto was with his back to the ropes. Not once did he make Margarito back up. He always fought defensively. Yes, with his good boxing skills and good combinations, he hit Margarito numerous times. But Margarito's strong chin, coupled with Cotto's style of throwing punches, at least in THAT fight, made it so that Margarito could walk right through the shots. Pacquiao didn't knock down Margarito either. Why? 'Cause he also didn't commit to his shots like Mosley did. Pacquiao, however, had more stamina and speed against Margarito than Cotto did when HE fought Margarito. So he busted up Margarito and easily won the fight. You have to make Margarito back up. He's a big, strong welter, with the body frame to easily be a good-sized middleweight.
But yeah.... there's no telling WHAT'S gonna happen in the rematch. Cotto will have to beat the mental demons and follow Emanuel's instructions to a "T" to have a good chance of winning this fight.
there's a cotto/margarito rematch????????
Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
Last I heard, it was being discussed.
:gossip:
It is all over Margarito's web site, that he expects to fight Cotto again.