How Big an Advantage Is Freddie Roach?
IamInuit's post on Bertos corner got me thinking. How many first class trainers are left in the sport and does Freddie Roach in particular provide his fighters with a major advantage?
I am persuaded training boxers is almost always learned as an apprenticeship, so the pedigree of a trainer often says something.
I think Freddie is the last of the Eddie Futch line of trainers.
I don't think any Ray Arcel/Whitey Bimstein/Charley Goldman disciples are left.
No Jack Blackburn disciples left.
I suppose Sweet Pea is a disciple of Lou Duva although I don't really know how active he is as a trainer.
Buddy McGirt is the only Al Certo disciple I can think of.
Nacho Beristain is the only Cuyo Hernandez disciple I know of.
Manny Stewart is mostly self-taught.
Teddy Atlas is the only disciple of Cus even remotely active I believe.
How many other current trainers learned at the foot of a great?
I think the answer is not many and maybe not any. I am happy to be corrected on this assertion.
When I grew up watching and learning the sport (began around 1970) it seemed like every time I watched a fight there were legends in each corner. Arcel vs Dundee or Futch vs Hernandez or Duva vs Clancy. Now it often seems like one stud trainer against an overwhelmed guy, or two overwhelmed guys.
I think Freddie Roach learned from the best of the best and offers his fighters a relative advantage over their foes few others have ever brought. Am I nuts?
Re: How Big an Advantage Is Freddie Roach?
I like Freddie. If nothing else he makes his fighters feel like winners. It has to be good for their confidence.
Re: How Big an Advantage Is Freddie Roach?
he can get hold of some crackin gear
Re: How Big an Advantage Is Freddie Roach?
A couple things. Emanuel Stewart is not selftaught. In fact, most of the things that, early in his career, Emanuel got credit for were actually the work of Bill Miller. Also I don't buy into the whole "Cus is great" trip, but that's merely by personal bias.
Freddy Roach is a good guy- very friendly- but I always figured he "trained" guys that were finished product when he got them. But I sat down and watched Pacquiao fights the other night and he has improved sooo much under Roach.
The problem I see is that there are so few true teachers anymore- so many guys are so lacking in fundamentals. It is hard to be polished if there's nothing to work with.
Think on this for a second. DeLaHoya was trained by Jesus (Jose?) Rivero- he went 8-0 with 6kos (Gonzalez, 41-0, and Whitaker went the distance) and was truly becoming a great fighter. He switched to Emanuel Stewart and then Gil Clancy (RIP)and they totally messed him up. Roach didn't help him at all either.
Re: How Big an Advantage Is Freddie Roach?
Big advantage. Not many have access to the steroids and Peds Roach be getting
Re: How Big an Advantage Is Freddie Roach?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
greynotsoold
A couple things. Emanuel Stewart is not selftaught. In fact, most of the things that, early in his career, Emanuel got credit for were actually the work of Bill Miller. Also I don't buy into the whole "Cus is great" trip, but that's merely by personal bias.
Freddy Roach is a good guy- very friendly- but I always figured he "trained" guys that were finished product when he got them. But I sat down and watched Pacquiao fights the other night and he has improved sooo much under Roach.
The problem I see is that there are so few true teachers anymore- so many guys are so lacking in fundamentals. It is hard to be polished if there's nothing to work with.
Think on this for a second. DeLaHoya was trained by Jesus (Jose?) Rivero- he went 8-0 with 6kos (Gonzalez, 41-0, and Whitaker went the distance) and was truly becoming a great fighter. He switched to Emanuel Stewart and then Gil Clancy (RIP)and they totally messed him up. Roach didn't help him at all either.
Freddy's work with Manny has been near magical. The improvements Manny has made in his right hand, his footwork and his balance have been staggering for a guy who already had been a pro for a decade. Something I had never seen before. Your point on the lack of true teachers is right on point.
Thanks for the correction on Manny Stewart!
Re: How Big an Advantage Is Freddie Roach?
Re: How Big an Advantage Is Freddie Roach?
I'll take a shot at this one knowing that ex-fighters know first hand about the pain and when they change from fighter to trainer, identifying with his fighter is easy and he sees mistakes more clearly because those mistakes are sometimes the same ones he made and he tries to make his fighters learn from his mistakes.
Re: How Big an Advantage Is Freddie Roach?
Roach actually watches the opponent as well as his charge. A rarity. One of the last of a kind really.
Re: How Big an Advantage Is Freddie Roach?
Chemistry is an important factor in any team that goes on to be successful. People don't realize how special the chemistry is with Roach and Pac. 2 guys that have unlimited passion for the sport one to teach and the other to continuously master his craft and be the best in the world.
Roach has improved Manny in so many areas. Pac has shortened his right hook so perfectly. It is the one weapon that made him relative vs the true welters like Cotto and Margarito. He knocked down Cotto with it and hurt Margarito with it more than any other punch. Zab Judah put Floyd's glove on the canvas from a long right hook no wonder he wants no part of Manny.
Re: How Big an Advantage Is Freddie Roach?
In my Roger Mayweather voice, "Motherfucker don't know shit about boxing. What has the motherfucker done in his boxing career? He ain't done shit thats what motherfucker. Motherfucker is a homosection."
Re: How Big an Advantage Is Freddie Roach?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
IamInuit's post on Bertos corner got me thinking. How many first class trainers are left in the sport and does Freddie Roach in particular provide his fighters with a major advantage?
I am persuaded training boxers is almost always learned as an apprenticeship, so the pedigree of a trainer often says something.
I think Freddie is the last of the Eddie Futch line of trainers.
I don't think any Ray Arcel/Whitey Bimstein/Charley Goldman disciples are left.
No Jack Blackburn disciples left.
I suppose Sweet Pea is a disciple of Lou Duva although I don't really know how active he is as a trainer.
Buddy McGirt is the only Al Certo disciple I can think of.
Nacho Beristain is the only Cuyo Hernandez disciple I know of.
Manny Stewart is mostly self-taught.
Teddy Atlas is the only disciple of Cus even remotely active I believe.
How many other current trainers learned at the foot of a great?
I think the answer is not many and maybe not any. I am happy to be corrected on this assertion.
When I grew up watching and learning the sport (began around 1970) it seemed like every time I watched a fight there were legends in each corner. Arcel vs Dundee or Futch vs Hernandez or Duva vs Clancy. Now it often seems like one stud trainer against an overwhelmed guy, or two overwhelmed guys.
I think Freddie Roach learned from the best of the best and offers his fighters a relative advantage over their foes few others have ever brought. Am I nuts?
I guess it's a matter of opinion if it's a big advantage having Freddie Roach as your trainer, Roach's critics for example might say that Pacquiao would be great with or with or without him. I'd like to think that Freddie is something very special as a trainer, and he's proven that time and time again. Whether Roach is solid old school, just a great instructor, or simply has the ability to get the best out of his charges, he's able to get results, and that's what really counts and makes him one of the best trainers in the world.
BTW Marble, make no mistake about it, you are nuts, but it has nothing to do with the fact that you know a hell of a lot about boxing. (j/k bro, cheers)
Re: How Big an Advantage Is Freddie Roach?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
In my Roger Mayweather voice, "Motherfucker don't know shit about boxing. What has the motherfucker done in his boxing career? He ain't done shit thats what motherfucker. Motherfucker is a homosection."
Good stuff bulldog, this cracked me up, I do think you could have used motherfucker a few more times, i'm sure Roger would have.
Re: How Big an Advantage Is Freddie Roach?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
IamInuit's post on Bertos corner got me thinking. How many first class trainers are left in the sport and does Freddie Roach in particular provide his fighters with a major advantage?
I am persuaded training boxers is almost always learned as an apprenticeship, so the pedigree of a trainer often says something.
I think Freddie is the last of the Eddie Futch line of trainers.
I don't think any Ray Arcel/Whitey Bimstein/Charley Goldman disciples are left.
No Jack Blackburn disciples left.
I suppose Sweet Pea is a disciple of Lou Duva although I don't really know how active he is as a trainer.
Buddy McGirt is the only Al Certo disciple I can think of.
Nacho Beristain is the only Cuyo Hernandez disciple I know of.
Manny Stewart is mostly self-taught.
Teddy Atlas is the only disciple of Cus even remotely active I believe.
How many other current trainers learned at the foot of a great?
I think the answer is not many and maybe not any. I am happy to be corrected on this assertion.
When I grew up watching and learning the sport (began around 1970) it seemed like every time I watched a fight there were legends in each corner. Arcel vs Dundee or Futch vs Hernandez or Duva vs Clancy. Now it often seems like one stud trainer against an overwhelmed guy, or two overwhelmed guys.
I think Freddie Roach learned from the best of the best and offers his fighters a relative advantage over their foes few others have ever brought. Am I nuts?
I guess it's a matter of opinion if it's a big advantage having Freddie Roach as your trainer, Roach's critics for example might say that Pacquiao would be great with or with or without him. I'd like to think that Freddie is something very special as a trainer, and he's proven that time and time again. Whether Roach is solid old school, just a great instructor, or simply has the ability to get the best out of his charges, he's able to get results, and that's what really counts and makes him one of the best trainers in the world.
BTW Marble, make no mistake about it, you are nuts, but it has nothing to do with the fact that you know a hell of a lot about boxing. (j/k bro, cheers)
Dude, hush! These guys don't need to know that! I don't want to get tossed the first week!
Re: How Big an Advantage Is Freddie Roach?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
0james0
Roach is clearly very knowledgable and an expert, but I can't help but wonder how long it will be until his illness becomes a detriment to his training.
No fault of his own, but it is a very severe and nasty illness. It must be much more difficult for him.
He said not so long ago that he feels fine while he's actually training. Like it takes his mind off it. I was a little surprised aswell.
Re: How Big an Advantage Is Freddie Roach?
Medicine is evolving fast and they made a few nice discoveries about Parkinson in the last 5 years, there is really a chance that by the time Freddie won't be able no more to train, they will have found something against Parkinson or at least, to get it under control.
Scientists herald gene therapy surgery as 'miracle' breakthrough for Parkinson's disease: study - New York Daily News
Parkinson's breakthrough as side effect from therapy eliminated - Telegraph
there is definitely hope in that domain. NOw, as for Roach, he's a major asset for many reasons: First, the experience and who he did learn from, I don't think of many boxers that didn't get much better under his guidance, PAcman is obviously the better example but other boxers like Khan have also improved dramatically under his guidance.
I've also rarely seen him giving bad advices in a corner, where some might stir up some mayweatherian shit like "knock him out man, yeah man, relax man", Roach always have something decent to say.
There is also the fact that the Wildcard seems to be a place where many great boxers are nowadays, which contributes to make of this place a great environment to see champions in action and to potentially spar with them.
Another aspect that often we don't see is that Freddy takes fire for his boxers quite often; He said many things that sometimes looked limits but when we do replace them in their context, I believe that we can see that he does so to get some attention that would otherwise be directed to the boxer and thus, reducing the pressure on his guys. I'd definitely hire him as a Trainer would I be a pro boxer.
Re: How Big an Advantage Is Freddie Roach?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
0james0
What line does Adam Booth desend from?
He might be a bit of a dick, but I rate him very highly as a trainer, particularly when it comes to fight tactics.
...the Richard Simmons line?
