Saturday's puerto rican vote
I was aghast at the fan voting on Puerto Rico's greatest fighter on Saturday night. IIRC the five names were Tito Trinidad, Wilfred Benitez, Carlos Ortiz, Wilfredo Vasquez and Bazooka Gomez. Now that is one impressive as hell list for a population of what? 4 million? But I was aghast when I saw Carlos Ortiz finish dead last with three percent of the vote. It made me angry that Ortiz has somehow been forgotten. Here's a summary of his career. Please recall that there was effectively one title per division at this time. No strapholders.
Ortiz stands 5'7 with a '70 inch reach, long for a lightweight. Those are almost identical dimensions to Floyd Mayweather. Ortiz was one of those ring chameleons. A good puncher, a good mover, an exceptional ring general, strong chin, high ring IQ and one of those non-flashy ring minimalists who never moves six inches when four will do. Outside the ring Carlos liked the good life and smoked and drank with abandon.
In his first year as a pro he went 14-0 and by 18 months and 20 fights he is fighting fringe contenders. By the time he is 21 he 25-0 and ready for a contender.
Joey Lopes-Ranked #6, he is coming off a KO loss to champion Old Bones Joe Brown and then two wins over former champion and HOFer Jimmy Carter. Ortiz breaks into the rankings with a convincing win. UD10.
Johnny Busso-Ranked #4, Busson will defeat champion Joe Brown in his next fight in an over the weight battle. He scrapes by Ortiz handing him his first loss by split decision. In the return fight a few months later Carlos returns the favor. UD10.
Now begins the Carlos Ortiz world tour. For the rest of his career he will go ANYWHERE to fight anybodu.
Dave Charnley-Ranked #6 the squat Brit southpaw is a powerful body puncher. He will twice challenge for world titles, once in a VERY close fight. Ortiz is able to stay away and land enough to win a decision in London. UD10.
Kenny Layne-The #1 ranked lightweight contender has over 60 fights already. Yet another southpaw. He is fifteen different kinds of slick. Ortiz thought he won, the judges said otherwise. MD10. Six months later they meet again for the recently brought out of mothballs 140 crown. A clearly annoyed Ortiz dropped Layne in round one, and with a tremendous right hand cut Layne so badly in round 2 the fight was stopped. TKO2.
At 22 years old, with a record of 30-2, Carlos Ortiz is a world champion.
Len Matthews-Ranked #6, the Philadelphian will go on to defeat seven ranked contenders. Ortiz travels to Philly and the referee stops the fight with Matthews helpless along the ropes. TKO6.
Battling Torres-The #3 ranked lightweight in the world is unbeaten. Ortiz positively schools the Mexican punching machine, winning every round and finishing him just before round ten ends. TKO10.
Duilio Loi-The HOF Italian will lose only three times in 120 fights. He is rugged, squat, tough and durable. Ortiz is behind late but he knocks Loi down, wins the championship rounds and ekes out a split decision win. SD15.
Loi II-In the return match In front of 65,000 berserk Italians in Milan, Ortiz stalks Loi and seems to be taking control. Then in the ninth round, Loi reverses things and begins chasing Ortiz and landing thudding body shots. Loi gets the controversial win. MD15.
Cisco Andrade-Ranked #6, Andrade, the Compton Comet, has just gone the distance with champion Joe Brown. Ortiz goes to LA and shuts him out. UD10.
Loi III-In the third fight, also in Milan, Loi knocks Ortiz down en route to a competitive but not controversial decision. UD15.
Douglas Valiant-The Cuban is ranked #5 and given that Castro has now outlawed pro boxing in Cuba, Ortiz can only go to Miami. UD10.
Paolo Rosi-Ranked #8, he is winding down a fine career. He still has enough left to drop Ortiz, but not enough to win. UD10.
Joe Brown-Old Bones has won over 90 fights and has successfully defended the lightweight crown a record eleven times. But the HOFer is showing his age and Ortiz's timing could not be more perfect. He was 25 and might never be better than he was on this night. He won 14 rounds on each of the judges cards by jabbing and moving and never letting the Champ get set. . UD15. Carlos Ortiz is lightweight champion of the world. In an interview after the fight Ortiz makes a very telling comment. "When I was a kid I read about how Billy Conn had Joe Louis beaten, only to get too cocky and get flattened. But not me, I told myself. Box and win."
Arthur Persley-Ranked #6, Persley fights out of the Phillipines. So Ortiz travels to Manila and takes a routine decision. UD 10.
Kazuo Takayama-The #6 ranked 130 steps up for a lightweight crack and host Ortiz in Tokyo. He had gone the distance with feather king Davey Moore the year before. Ortiz goes to Tokyo and wins in a shutout. UD10.
Teruo Kosaka-Back to Tokyo, this time for #9 ranked Japanese. he had defeated ATG Flash Elorde six months before. Kosaka is yet another southpaw. Ortiz annihilates him. KO5.
Douglas Valiant-Fighting for the first time in Puerto Rico, Ortiz gives the home folks, 20,000 strong, a show. Valiant is now ranked #3. Ortiz flattens him with a left hook in the first. Valiant fights back trying to get to Ortiz's body again and again. But by the eleventh Ortiz was whacking Valient with body shots of his own. Ortiz drops him with a body shot in the twelfth and then finishes him in the thirteenth. TKO13.
Maurice Cullen-Ortiz goes to London to take on and beat the British champ. UD10.
Flash Elorde-The undisputed 130 king and reigning 135 OPBF champ takes a crack at the lightweight king. Ortiz goes to Manila to take on the ATG Elorde in front of 60,000 of his countrymen. Elorde, yet another lefty, is dead in his prime and controls the early action with his spectacular feet and combination punching. He cuts Ortiz in the second. Ortiz begins to turn things in the middle rounds with a sustained up the middle body attack and by the championship rounds Elorde was exhausted. It ends with Flash helpless on the ropes. TKO14.
Kenny Layne III-Is on a roll and is now the #1 ranked contender. As they always did, these two put on a good fight and the issue was still in doubt when Ortiz floors Lane late. UD15.
Ismael Laguna-The Panamanian great, Roberto Duran's hero and future HOFer Laguna is FAST. Really, really fast. Ortiz, traveling to Panama and training there, struggled with his weight and his training. But perhaps it didn't matter. Laguna was simply too fast for Ortiz and Carlos gives up his crown. MD15 that wasn't that close.
At this point Ortiz is 46-4, 29 years old and has been a two division champion. It seems that his fast living may have caught up with him and he probably is in decline at this point. But what an astonishing decline it will be.
Laguna II-In the seven months since their last fight, Laguna has gotten a draw with 140 pound king and ATG Nicolino Locche while Ortiz has trained. This time in Puerto Rico, Ortiz is able to deal with Laguna's speed and wins a clean decision to become a three time champion. UD15.
Nicolino Locche-The sensational Argentine needs to be seen to be believed. Untouchable indeed. An ATG and one of the unique styles in boxing history. The two greats battle to a draw in Buenos Aires. Locche didn't do much offensively, but Ortiz, like everyone else, struggled to hit him.
Johnny Bizzaro-The #1 ranked 130 in the world steps up for a title crack. He had already gone the distance with Flash Elorde. Bizzaro fights out of Pittsburgh, so Ortiz goes to Western PA and knocks him out. KO12.
Sugar Ramos-The HOFer and former featherweight king is now ranked #8 ant lightweight. Ramos is another Cuban refugee who fights out of Mexico City. So Ortiz heads south of the border. This fight was a mess. ATG Billy Conn refereed and Conn was a lousy ref. Ramos, a GIGANTIC puncher, floored Ortiz in the second and the Mexican crowd thought he got a long count. Then Ortiz opened up a cut on Ramos and Conn stopped the fight in the fifth nearly causing a riot. TKO5.
Elorde II-This time the Filipino great comes to NYC. He is still the 130 pound king. The result is the same. TKO14.
Ramos II-This fight is held in San Juan and it is a massacre. Ortiz slams the door on any controversy with a TKO4.
Ismael Laguna III-My favorite Ortiz fight. He is 32 years old and clearly physically fading. The crowd at Shea Stadium is electric as the #1 challenger Laguna comes to town to settle their trilogy. Ortiz has just enough left physically to show off his off the charts ring IQ. He fights in spurts all night long. Ortiz is the man determining distance from the beginning and he staggers the Panamanian in the second, wobbled him in the fourth and made him do a chicken dance in the eight. The Ortiz right hand is a thing of beauty. Laguna makes a run at him in the ninth and tenth and then Ortiz kicks it into another gear from the eleventh on and walks away with an artistic and lopsided decision win. UD15.
It is Carlos Ortiz's last great night. In his last eight fights he has gone 6-1-1 while fighting HOFers in seven of those fights. Some stretch huh? He takes a year off and then loses his crown to Carlos Teo Cruz by split decision. Ortiz becomes a part time fighter and though he rarely loses he no longer has the stuff. He finishes his career on his stool to HOFer Ken Buchanan.
Ortiz was a three time champion with a total of 12 defenses. Time after time he traveled to the other guys' hometown and whipped them. He defeated 24 ranked fighters and went 8-4-1 against HOFers. Against this level of competition he was stopped only in his last fight.
In my mind Ortiz is clearly the most accomplished fighter Puerto Rico has produced.
Re: Saturday's puerto rican vote
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Puerto Rican Punch
Wao, this was a great Carlos Ortiz background summary. I agree with you that his name has been forgoten when we talk about great puertorrican and even great all time champions. I guess that the result was just vote of new generations that never saw Ortiz. But, as you mentioned this is a great list for such a small country and we are proud of all of them and the ones that are raising.
Hell and they didn't even inlcude Camacho as an option. It just kills me that a guy like Ortiz, who fought top guy after top guy and was the finest of a great era of lightweights somehow recedes into the fog. What a fighter!
Re: Saturday's puerto rican vote
i agree, out of the 5 i have them
1. Benitez
2. Gomez
3. Trinidad (Ortiz easily could be here)
4. Ortiz (could easily switch with Trinidad)
5. Cotto
i rank Trinidad higher due to the names he beat and apart from his fight with DLH he did so convincingly (seeing how i had DLH winning), as for Camacho well i rank all 5 higher than Macho
Re: Saturday's puerto rican vote
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
i agree, out of the 5 i have them
1. Benitez
2. Gomez
3. Trinidad (Ortiz easily could be here)
4. Ortiz (could easily switch with Trinidad)
5. Cotto
i rank Trinidad higher due to the names he beat and apart from his fight with DLH he did so convincingly (seeing how i had DLH winning), as for Camacho well i rank all 5 higher than Macho
Respectfully who did either Tito or El Radar or Bazooka beat who were as good as Ismael Laguna or Duilio Loi or Flash Elorde or Sugar Ramos?
BTW, I LOVE Benitez. Roger Kimball was wrong. There were FIVE kings in the 1980's.
Re: Saturday's puerto rican vote
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
i agree, out of the 5 i have them
1. Benitez
2. Gomez
3. Trinidad (Ortiz easily could be here)
4. Ortiz (could easily switch with Trinidad)
5. Cotto
i rank Trinidad higher due to the names he beat and apart from his fight with DLH he did so convincingly (seeing how i had DLH winning), as for Camacho well i rank all 5 higher than Macho
Respectfully who did either Tito or El Radar or Bazooka beat who were as good as Ismael Laguna or Duilio Loi or Flash Elorde or Sugar Ramos?
BTW, I LOVE Benitez. Roger Kimball was wrong. There were FIVE kings in the 1980's.
Benitez was beating up grown men at the age of 14, became a world champion beating Cervantes at 17, also he holds a clear win over Duran who by many is considered the greatest lightweight of all time, he's also a 3 weight champion, without a doubt the best technical and defensive fighter to come from the island
Gomez finished his career with the record of 44 Wins only 3 losses and 42 Wins coming by KO, he had wins over the likes of Lockridge, La Porte, Pintor, Kobayashi, and Zarate just to name a few, he lost to Salvador Sanchez and Azumah Nelson by his final loss he was already battling his addiction to cocaine
Trinidad had wins against Vargas, Whitaker, DLH (although controversial), Campas, Joppy, and again a 3 weight champion, he's still today holds the record for most successful title defenses at welterweight
so i'd say that all 3 can make their case for being just as good if not better than Ortiz, who himself is an ATG
Re: Saturday's puerto rican vote
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
i agree, out of the 5 i have them
1. Benitez
2. Gomez
3. Trinidad (Ortiz easily could be here)
4. Ortiz (could easily switch with Trinidad)
5. Cotto
i rank Trinidad higher due to the names he beat and apart from his fight with DLH he did so convincingly (seeing how i had DLH winning), as for Camacho well i rank all 5 higher than Macho
Respectfully who did either Tito or El Radar or Bazooka beat who were as good as Ismael Laguna or Duilio Loi or Flash Elorde or Sugar Ramos?
BTW, I LOVE Benitez. Roger Kimball was wrong. There were FIVE kings in the 1980's.
Benitez was beating up grown men at the age of 14, became a world champion beating Cervantes at 17, also he holds a clear win over Duran who by many is considered the greatest lightweight of all time, he's also a 3 weight champion, without a doubt the best technical and defensive fighter to come from the island
Gomez finished his career with the record of 44 Wins only 3 losses and 42 Wins coming by KO, he had wins over the likes of Lockridge, La Porte, Pintor, Kobayashi, and Zarate just to name a few, he lost to Salvador Sanchez and Azumah Nelson by his final loss he was already battling his addiction to cocaine
Trinidad had wins against Vargas, Whitaker, DLH (although controversial), Campas, Joppy, and again a 3 weight champion, he's still today holds the record for most successful title defenses at welterweight
so i'd say that all 3 can make their case for being just as good if not better than Ortiz, who himself is an ATG
c
Believe me I am taking NOTHING away from these other men. But Tito just doesn't stack up. The win over Sweet Pea was over a badly, badly faded Pete. And The Oscar fight, well, I had it a draw. But again, Tito was a force of nature at 147. I think you're wrong about title defenses. Armstrong had 18 when there was only one belt. Tito didn't even unify the division until the Oscar fight. Oscar was the lineal champ. And Tito had straps at 154 and 160, not lineal or undisputed claims. Straps mean little. Bazooka beat some awfully good fighters (Zarate most notably) but he had a losing record against HOFers. Benitez has the best argument, for all the reasons you say (although in reality he was only THE MAN at 140) The other two were straps. What a fighter. One thing to think about though is that Radar was on top for what? 5-6 years? From when he shocked Pambele to when Hamsho just pounded on him? Ortiz was on top for a decade. One other thing. Ortiz fought more fights with HOFers and won more than Benitez, Tito and Bazooka combined!
Four tremendous fighters, Puerto Rico's boxing Mount Rushmore...but Ortiz gets carved first :)
Re: Saturday's puerto rican vote
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
i agree, out of the 5 i have them
1. Benitez
2. Gomez
3. Trinidad (Ortiz easily could be here)
4. Ortiz (could easily switch with Trinidad)
5. Cotto
i rank Trinidad higher due to the names he beat and apart from his fight with DLH he did so convincingly (seeing how i had DLH winning), as for Camacho well i rank all 5 higher than Macho
Respectfully who did either Tito or El Radar or Bazooka beat who were as good as Ismael Laguna or Duilio Loi or Flash Elorde or Sugar Ramos?
BTW, I LOVE Benitez. Roger Kimball was wrong. There were FIVE kings in the 1980's.
Benitez was beating up grown men at the age of 14, became a world champion beating Cervantes at 17, also he holds a clear win over Duran who by many is considered the greatest lightweight of all time, he's also a 3 weight champion, without a doubt the best technical and defensive fighter to come from the island
Gomez finished his career with the record of 44 Wins only 3 losses and 42 Wins coming by KO, he had wins over the likes of Lockridge, La Porte, Pintor, Kobayashi, and Zarate just to name a few, he lost to Salvador Sanchez and Azumah Nelson by his final loss he was already battling his addiction to cocaine
Trinidad had wins against Vargas, Whitaker, DLH (although controversial), Campas, Joppy, and again a 3 weight champion, he's still today holds the record for most successful title defenses at welterweight
so i'd say that all 3 can make their case for being just as good if not better than Ortiz, who himself is an ATG
c
Believe me I am taking NOTHING away from these other men. But Tito just doesn't stack up. The win over Sweet Pea was over a badly, badly faded Pete. And The Oscar fight, well, I had it a draw. But again, Tito was a force of nature at 147. I think you're wrong about title defenses. Armstrong had 18 when there was only one belt. Tito didn't even unify the division until the Oscar fight. Oscar was the lineal champ. And Tito had straps at 154 and 160, not lineal or undisputed claims. Straps mean little. Bazooka beat some awfully good fighters (Zarate most notably) but he had a losing record against HOFers. Benitez has the best argument, for all the reasons you say (although in reality he was only THE MAN at 140) The other two were straps. What a fighter. One thing to think about though is that Radar was on top for what? 5-6 years? From when he shocked Pambele to when Hamsho just pounded on him? Ortiz was on top for a decade. One other thing. Ortiz fought more fights with HOFers and won more than Benitez, Tito and Bazooka combined!
Four tremendous fighters, Puerto Rico's boxing Mount Rushmore...but Ortiz gets carved first :)
just cause they weren't lineal champs at those weight classes doesn't mean that he wasn't champ at that weight class, if it were for that Pacquiao wouldn't hold any record and would be merely at the level of DLH if not below him, cause he just won straps at 154, 147, and 135, leaving him at 5 weight classes
if it's good for one guy it's just as good for the other
Re: Saturday's puerto rican vote
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
i agree, out of the 5 i have them
1. Benitez
2. Gomez
3. Trinidad (Ortiz easily could be here)
4. Ortiz (could easily switch with Trinidad)
5. Cotto
i rank Trinidad higher due to the names he beat and apart from his fight with DLH he did so convincingly (seeing how i had DLH winning), as for Camacho well i rank all 5 higher than Macho
Pretty hard to put anyone ahead of Benitez. Turned pro at what 15 but one of the most incredible things was what he did after turning pro. He beat 25 guys in a span of just over a year prior to challenging and beating Cervantes. Today 25 fights takes about 7 years lol. One can only imagine how he could of added to his outstanding legacy had he chosen a different lifestyle.
Re: Saturday's puerto rican vote
Pac is still a 4 time lineal champ. I think Oscar was only a lineal champ only once in the 6 divisions he fought. Major difference. And hardcore boxing fans and historians care more about the lineal titles than meaningless trinkets. Any decent fighter can call themself "champ" in this era. Hell look at John Ruiz, he's consider a 2 time HW "champ."
Whitaker was a shot fighter when he fought Tito. I don't know how that is a great win. That's like saying Holmes had a great win over Ali.
Re: Saturday's puerto rican vote
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
i agree, out of the 5 i have them
1. Benitez
2. Gomez
3. Trinidad (Ortiz easily could be here)
4. Ortiz (could easily switch with Trinidad)
5. Cotto
i rank Trinidad higher due to the names he beat and apart from his fight with DLH he did so convincingly (seeing how i had DLH winning), as for Camacho well i rank all 5 higher than Macho
Respectfully who did either Tito or El Radar or Bazooka beat who were as good as Ismael Laguna or Duilio Loi or Flash Elorde or Sugar Ramos?
BTW, I LOVE Benitez. Roger Kimball was wrong. There were FIVE kings in the 1980's.
Benitez was beating up grown men at the age of 14, became a world champion beating Cervantes at 17, also he holds a clear win over Duran who by many is considered the greatest lightweight of all time, he's also a 3 weight champion, without a doubt the best technical and defensive fighter to come from the island
Gomez finished his career with the record of 44 Wins only 3 losses and 42 Wins coming by KO, he had wins over the likes of Lockridge, La Porte, Pintor, Kobayashi, and Zarate just to name a few, he lost to Salvador Sanchez and Azumah Nelson by his final loss he was already battling his addiction to cocaine
Trinidad had wins against Vargas, Whitaker, DLH (although controversial), Campas, Joppy, and again a 3 weight champion, he's still today holds the record for most successful title defenses at welterweight
so i'd say that all 3 can make their case for being just as good if not better than Ortiz, who himself is an ATG
c
Believe me I am taking NOTHING away from these other men. But Tito just doesn't stack up. The win over Sweet Pea was over a badly, badly faded Pete. And The Oscar fight, well, I had it a draw. But again, Tito was a force of nature at 147. I think you're wrong about title defenses. Armstrong had 18 when there was only one belt. Tito didn't even unify the division until the Oscar fight. Oscar was the lineal champ. And Tito had straps at 154 and 160, not lineal or undisputed claims. Straps mean little. Bazooka beat some awfully good fighters (Zarate most notably) but he had a losing record against HOFers. Benitez has the best argument, for all the reasons you say (although in reality he was only THE MAN at 140) The other two were straps. What a fighter. One thing to think about though is that Radar was on top for what? 5-6 years? From when he shocked Pambele to when Hamsho just pounded on him? Ortiz was on top for a decade. One other thing. Ortiz fought more fights with HOFers and won more than Benitez, Tito and Bazooka combined!
Four tremendous fighters, Puerto Rico's boxing Mount Rushmore...but Ortiz gets carved first :)
just cause they weren't lineal champs at those weight classes doesn't mean that he wasn't champ at that weight class, if it were for that Pacquiao wouldn't hold any record and would be merely at the level of DLH if not below him, cause he just won straps at 154, 147, and 135, leaving him at 5 weight classes
if it's good for one guy it's just as good for the other
That's EXACTLY what it means. Anyone who falls for the Manny is an eight division champion is a chowderhead of the lowest order. What makes Manny special? He's the only four division lineal champion in history and he is one of the few to beat top fighters across five of the original divisions.
Please do not fall for the crap promoters try to drive down our throats about belts. If the word CHAMPION is going to mean anything, there can be at most one per division. Right now in boxing there are AT MOST six champions. Wlad, Pascal, Sergio, Segura, JMM and Wonjonkam. Everybody else is a contender with a trinket. All boxing has done is the equivalent of baseball calling division winners champions. The annual baseball king? The team that wins the World Series.
Re: Saturday's puerto rican vote
I've often said Ortiz is argueably the greatest PR fighter of all time...
My lists change from time to time as I learn more on boxing but since you asked today.
Here's what my list would look like.
Ortiz
Radar
Bazooka
Tito
Vita
Chegui
Sugar De Leon
El Gallito
El Torbellion
El Chapo
El Cholo
El Salsero
(Something like that)
At this time I can't rank Cotto because he still active...
Re: Saturday's puerto rican vote
I was surprised by the voting the other night as well. Showed that mostly younger people were voting, and gave little respect to the older fighters.
I am not familiar with Ortiz at all.
I know Gomez and Benetiz were greater fighters than Trinidad though.
Re: Saturday's puerto rican vote
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
I was aghast at the fan voting on Puerto Rico's greatest fighter on Saturday night. IIRC the five names were Tito Trinidad, Wilfred Benitez, Carlos Ortiz, Wilfredo Vasquez and Bazooka Gomez. Now that is one impressive as hell list for a population of what? 4 million? But I was aghast when I saw Carlos Ortiz finish dead last with three percent of the vote. It made me angry that Ortiz has somehow been forgotten. Here's a summary of his career. Please recall that there was effectively one title per division at this time. No strapholders.
Ortiz stands 5'7 with a '70 inch reach, long for a lightweight. Those are almost identical dimensions to Floyd Mayweather. Ortiz was one of those ring chameleons. A good puncher, a good mover, an exceptional ring general, strong chin, high ring IQ and one of those non-flashy ring minimalists who never moves six inches when four will do. Outside the ring Carlos liked the good life and smoked and drank with abandon.
In his first year as a pro he went 14-0 and by 18 months and 20 fights he is fighting fringe contenders. By the time he is 21 he 25-0 and ready for a contender.
(Deleted due to space constraints)
It is Carlos Ortiz's last great night. In his last eight fights he has gone 6-1-1 while fighting HOFers in seven of those fights. Some stretch huh? He takes a year off and then loses his crown to Carlos Teo Cruz by split decision. Ortiz becomes a part time fighter and though he rarely loses he no longer has the stuff. He finishes his career on his stool to HOFer Ken Buchanan.
Ortiz was a three time champion with a total of 12 defenses. Time after time he traveled to the other guys' hometown and whipped them. He defeated 24 ranked fighters and went 8-4-1 against HOFers. Against this level of competition he was stopped only in his last fight.
In my mind Ortiz is clearly the most accomplished fighter Puerto Rico has produced.
WOW.... excellent, incredibly knowledgeable and researched post. Cool click for that. I'm guilty as anybody else for not being familiar with Carlos Ortiz. And yes... his resume is incredibly impressive. It's so difficult to compare fighters across different eras. I was aghast myself when I saw Cotto voted over both Gomez and Benitez. Those are two boxing legends right there. I wouldn't short-change either one. Gomez probably still holds some kind of KO percentage ratio record... and Benitez was one of THE best defensive fighters in boxing history, not to mention the youngest world title holder. And going back to Gomez... he probably could've run the table during his career, but he let the good life become too much of a distraction, and lost fights he could've probably won. He still ended up with an incredible record. Many of his victims were world-class, too. Zarate was something like, I don't know.... 50-something and "oh" when he fought Gomez? I know he was undefeated, including a win over the highly rated fellow Mexican Zamora.
One thing I agree with everyone else.... an impressive lineup of boxing greats for such a little island. Something we've always been extremely proud of.
:)
(Oops.... had to cut some of the quoted post.... got an error message for too many characters. (?)
Re: Saturday's puerto rican vote
Quote:
I have never missed with so many punches
Ray Leonard.
Re: Saturday's puerto rican vote
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
I was aghast at the fan voting on Puerto Rico's greatest fighter on Saturday night. IIRC the five names were Tito Trinidad, Wilfred Benitez, Carlos Ortiz, Wilfredo Vasquez and Bazooka Gomez. Now that is one impressive as hell list for a population of what? 4 million? But I was aghast when I saw Carlos Ortiz finish dead last with three percent of the vote. It made me angry that Ortiz has somehow been forgotten. Here's a summary of his career. Please recall that there was effectively one title per division at this time. No strapholders.
Ortiz stands 5'7 with a '70 inch reach, long for a lightweight. Those are almost identical dimensions to Floyd Mayweather. Ortiz was one of those ring chameleons. A good puncher, a good mover, an exceptional ring general, strong chin, high ring IQ and one of those non-flashy ring minimalists who never moves six inches when four will do. Outside the ring Carlos liked the good life and smoked and drank with abandon.
In his first year as a pro he went 14-0 and by 18 months and 20 fights he is fighting fringe contenders. By the time he is 21 he 25-0 and ready for a contender.
(Deleted due to space constraints)
It is Carlos Ortiz's last great night. In his last eight fights he has gone 6-1-1 while fighting HOFers in seven of those fights. Some stretch huh? He takes a year off and then loses his crown to Carlos Teo Cruz by split decision. Ortiz becomes a part time fighter and though he rarely loses he no longer has the stuff. He finishes his career on his stool to HOFer Ken Buchanan.
Ortiz was a three time champion with a total of 12 defenses. Time after time he traveled to the other guys' hometown and whipped them. He defeated 24 ranked fighters and went 8-4-1 against HOFers. Against this level of competition he was stopped only in his last fight.
In my mind Ortiz is clearly the most accomplished fighter Puerto Rico has produced.
WOW.... excellent, incredibly knowledgeable and researched post. Cool click for that. I'm guilty as anybody else for not being familiar with Carlos Ortiz. And yes... his resume is incredibly impressive. It's so difficult to compare fighters across different eras. I was aghast myself when I saw Cotto voted over both Gomez and Benitez. Those are two boxing legends right there. I wouldn't short-change either one. Gomez probably still holds some kind of KO percentage ratio record... and Benitez was one of THE best defensive fighters in boxing history, not to mention the youngest world title holder. And going back to Gomez... he probably could've run the table during his career, but he let the good life become too much of a distraction, and lost fights he could've probably won. He still ended up with an incredible record. Many of his victims were world-class, too. Zarate was something like, I don't know.... 50-something and "oh" when he fought Gomez? I know he was undefeated, including a win over the highly rated fellow Mexican Zamora.
One thing I agree with everyone else.... an impressive lineup of boxing greats for such a little island. Something we've always been extremely proud of.
:)
(Oops.... had to cut some of the quoted post.... got an error message for too many characters. (?)
Yeah, Bazooka was something crazy like 35-0-1 with 34KO's at 122. Just insane. When he met Zarate, Zarate was like 51-0 with 49 KO's.
