If you lived in the USA what political party would you vote for?
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If you lived in the USA what political party would you vote for?
Republican.
You are strange, sometimes you are for the state and welfare and other times you have right wing views that. Thought you would have gone independent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Ghost which Indepenednt person would you vote for?
Don't know who is running, but Ross Perot was a good one a few years back. Liked his style. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterYou are strange, sometimes you are for the state and welfare and other times you have right wing views that. Thought you would have gone independent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Ghost which Indepenednt person would you vote for?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterYou are strange, sometimes you are for the state and welfare and other times you have right wing views that. Thought you would have gone independent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Ghost which Indepenednt person would you vote for?
I'm unashamedly firmly on the right. As a party right now I think the Republicans suck. Sarah Palin and Michelle Bachman would make awful Presidents.
But they are the party of pro guns, anti abortion, anti gay marriages etc etc.
So I would choose them every time.
And if that meant Palin getting in and ruining America, well I couldn't care less as it's not my country ;)
What about Donald Trump for the republicans?
That man is a total turnip. Looks a bit like one too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
The democrats are the lesser of two evils, but they are still pretty rotten. In terms of principles I would probably go with a credible independant, but it's probably just a vote thrown away considering they only ever get about 4% of the vote.
I really like Ralph Nader as an Independant. He is someone I have a lot of time for.
For an American perspective it's interesting to see what you guys are saying here. The logic overall is pretty similar to how many Americans choose affiliation. Both parties are corrupt and inevitably hurt the country when in power for too long. What is essential (and many will disagree with me here) is pendulum that swings from right to left, left to right. Because most Americans are far more centrist that politicians.
My own take though is that the pendulum never really swings to the left. It wavers back and forth, but always on the right side. In terms of US politics of the past 40 years, I see all too few initiatives that I would class as truly left wing.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheep
haha it's waaaaaay to the left now. Did you know that in American universities 8/10 professors are now liberals?Quote:
Originally Posted by milesMy own take though is that the pendulum never really swings to the left. It wavers back and forth, but always on the right side. In terms of US politics of the past 40 years, I see all too few initiatives that I would class as truly left wing.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheep
I read it in Time a few weeks ago. Has to be true.
Academics are typically smart and observant people, but they are not in government nor forming policies. I don't see what that has to do with this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbohaha it's waaaaaay to the left now. Did you know that in American universities 8/10 professors are now liberals?Quote:
Originally Posted by milesMy own take though is that the pendulum never really swings to the left. It wavers back and forth, but always on the right side. In terms of US politics of the past 40 years, I see all too few initiatives that I would class as truly left wing.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheep
I read it in Time a few weeks ago. Has to be true.
The left has been attacked and dismantled for a long time now and with so called talk of a deficit crisis we are seeing an expansion of this policy. Politics has been and is firmly on the side of the right. I am sure you can bring up examples of this not being so, but as a whole you cannot say that US politics is 'way to the left'. That is silly talk.
You left off Libertarian and Green Party. But to answer the question I vote Libertarian.
To go off of Killer's post I don't think we should swing left or right but have a federal gov't that strictly follows the constitution. Individual states can have varying degrees of left/right gov't but not at the federal level. The Constitution was written specifically to provide the feds with a strict set of enumerated powers and to allow the citizens of individual states to have much more autonomy over their local policies. Once the 17th went into play the whole crux of the system was removed.
I was too strong in my last statement, some academics obviously do have influence, but name me one from the left that has influenced government policy. They are few and far between.
Miles there is a quote that I don't remember verbatim but the gist is you'd rather have control over a school board than a legistlation. Basically if you control the education system then ultimately you will control the politics. My college experience was that many of my professors had never worked in the private sector and were woefully disconnected from reality. Whether they consciously lectured a certain way I can't say but considering their job it was of course in their best interest to promote and foster big gov't ideals.
I don't see the connection really. Sure a school board can influence viewpoints, but ultimately big corporations are funding elections and the parties are setting the agenda. I don't think the views of ordinary people are reflected in US party politics.Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorCharlie
As for academics, I would be surprised if Bilbo's figure was accurate. How can you measure such a stat? I think academia is a more open avenue than politics, but having said that these people would be foolish for going against the grain too strongly. Chomsky has lectured on this, most people are just looking for their niche and they stay within it. You don't defy the system and try to break it. I look at my own degree in politics to see how much I have rebelled from the prescribed course. You will get liberal professors, but those who have influence are more likely to be from the conservative areas.
I can't find the exact article but if you google 'Why are professors liberals' you will see it's a very well known truth and one that sociologists have tried to determine why.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesI don't see the connection really. Sure a school board can influence viewpoints, but ultimately big corporations are funding elections and the parties are setting the agenda. I don't think the views of ordinary people are reflected in US party politics.Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorCharlie
As for academics, I would be surprised if Bilbo's figure was accurate. How can you measure such a stat? I think academia is a more open avenue than politics, but having said that these people would be foolish for going against the grain too strongly. Chomsky has lectured on this, most people are just looking for their niche and they stay within it. You don't defy the system and try to break it. I look at my own degree in politics to see how much I have rebelled from the prescribed course. You will get liberal professors, but those who have influence are more likely to be from the conservative areas.
Browsing some of the articles it looks like an quite interesting subject with all kinds of different, and polarising viewpoints. If you read up on it we can argue over the conclusions and add a whole new reportoire to our debates.
Possibly a good idea, I will think about that. My current thing is superhero's and villains though.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboI can't find the exact article but if you google 'Why are professors liberals' you will see it's a very well known truth and one that sociologists have tried to determine why.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesI don't see the connection really. Sure a school board can influence viewpoints, but ultimately big corporations are funding elections and the parties are setting the agenda. I don't think the views of ordinary people are reflected in US party politics.Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorCharlie
As for academics, I would be surprised if Bilbo's figure was accurate. How can you measure such a stat? I think academia is a more open avenue than politics, but having said that these people would be foolish for going against the grain too strongly. Chomsky has lectured on this, most people are just looking for their niche and they stay within it. You don't defy the system and try to break it. I look at my own degree in politics to see how much I have rebelled from the prescribed course. You will get liberal professors, but those who have influence are more likely to be from the conservative areas.
Browsing some of the articles it looks like an quite interesting subject with all kinds of different, and polarising viewpoints. If you read up on it we can argue over the conclusions and add a whole new reportoire to our debates.
haha this is a try to stay calm week and lower your blood pressure week yeah?Quote:
Originally Posted by milesPossibly a good idea, I will think about that. My current thing is superhero's and villains though.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboI can't find the exact article but if you google 'Why are professors liberals' you will see it's a very well known truth and one that sociologists have tried to determine why.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesI don't see the connection really. Sure a school board can influence viewpoints, but ultimately big corporations are funding elections and the parties are setting the agenda. I don't think the views of ordinary people are reflected in US party politics.Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorCharlie
As for academics, I would be surprised if Bilbo's figure was accurate. How can you measure such a stat? I think academia is a more open avenue than politics, but having said that these people would be foolish for going against the grain too strongly. Chomsky has lectured on this, most people are just looking for their niche and they stay within it. You don't defy the system and try to break it. I look at my own degree in politics to see how much I have rebelled from the prescribed course. You will get liberal professors, but those who have influence are more likely to be from the conservative areas.
Browsing some of the articles it looks like an quite interesting subject with all kinds of different, and polarising viewpoints. If you read up on it we can argue over the conclusions and add a whole new reportoire to our debates.
Not really, but I don't really start so many of those types of threads these days. My politics quota is much reduced. Though I will comment given the opportunity. In a veiled way, I guess my other threads do act in a similar kind of way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbohaha this is a try to stay calm week and lower your blood pressure week yeah?Quote:
Originally Posted by milesPossibly a good idea, I will think about that. My current thing is superhero's and villains though.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboI can't find the exact article but if you google 'Why are professors liberals' you will see it's a very well known truth and one that sociologists have tried to determine why.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesI don't see the connection really. Sure a school board can influence viewpoints, but ultimately big corporations are funding elections and the parties are setting the agenda. I don't think the views of ordinary people are reflected in US party politics.Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorCharlie
As for academics, I would be surprised if Bilbo's figure was accurate. How can you measure such a stat? I think academia is a more open avenue than politics, but having said that these people would be foolish for going against the grain too strongly. Chomsky has lectured on this, most people are just looking for their niche and they stay within it. You don't defy the system and try to break it. I look at my own degree in politics to see how much I have rebelled from the prescribed course. You will get liberal professors, but those who have influence are more likely to be from the conservative areas.
Browsing some of the articles it looks like an quite interesting subject with all kinds of different, and polarising viewpoints. If you read up on it we can argue over the conclusions and add a whole new reportoire to our debates.
republican
give me right wing idealism over left wing liberalism every day of the week
What is a libertarian?Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorCharlie
Ha I was a card carrying libertarian from 18 - 26, preaching the same things as you are now. The older I get the more liberal I get.Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorCharlie
What are they then?Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheepHa I was a card carrying libertarian from 18 - 26, preaching the same things as you are now. The older I get the more liberal I get.Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorCharlie
Anarchy with an army that maintains a belief system in money that is backed by a commodity.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterWhat is a libertarian?Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorCharlie
;D
From what I understand Libertarian has a far different meaning elsewhere in the world.
As with all parties there are different views of what Libertarian means, especially as far as it goes. When I was in the party the talk was to abolish the IRS, get rid of the federal reserve, get rid of all entitlement programs, open the borders and make sure the constitution is followed to the letter. There were those that wanted to further privatize things such as all schools, police, fire, postal service etc.
Basically the Ayn Rand's fictional heroes.
Since that time, the GOP (republicans) have had a greater influence and have moved some of the candidates to a less far right ideology, more in line with the general public.
That sounds like socialism or maybe even communism.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheepAnarchy with an army that maintains a belief system in money that is backed by a commodity.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterWhat is a libertarian?Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorCharlie
;D
From what I understand Libertarian has a far different meaning elsewhere in the world.
As with all parties there are different views of what Libertarian means, especially as far as it goes. When I was in the party the talk was to abolish the IRS, get rid of the federal reserve, get rid of all entitlement programs, open the borders and make sure the constitution is followed to the letter. There were those that wanted to further privatize things such as all schools, police, fire, postal service etc.
Basically the Ayn Rand's fictional heroes.
Since that time, the GOP (republicans) have had a greater influence and have moved some of the candidates to a less far right ideology, more in line with the general public.
Opposite of that, everything is privatized. No social programs.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterThat sounds like socialism or maybe even communism.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheepAnarchy with an army that maintains a belief system in money that is backed by a commodity.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterWhat is a libertarian?Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorCharlie
;D
From what I understand Libertarian has a far different meaning elsewhere in the world.
As with all parties there are different views of what Libertarian means, especially as far as it goes. When I was in the party the talk was to abolish the IRS, get rid of the federal reserve, get rid of all entitlement programs, open the borders and make sure the constitution is followed to the letter. There were those that wanted to further privatize things such as all schools, police, fire, postal service etc.
Basically the Ayn Rand's fictional heroes.
Since that time, the GOP (republicans) have had a greater influence and have moved some of the candidates to a less far right ideology, more in line with the general public.
Ultra right wing, Lyle style.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheepOpposite of that, everything is privatized. No social programs.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterThat sounds like socialism or maybe even communism.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheepAnarchy with an army that maintains a belief system in money that is backed by a commodity.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterWhat is a libertarian?Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorCharlie
;D
From what I understand Libertarian has a far different meaning elsewhere in the world.
As with all parties there are different views of what Libertarian means, especially as far as it goes. When I was in the party the talk was to abolish the IRS, get rid of the federal reserve, get rid of all entitlement programs, open the borders and make sure the constitution is followed to the letter. There were those that wanted to further privatize things such as all schools, police, fire, postal service etc.
Basically the Ayn Rand's fictional heroes.
Since that time, the GOP (republicans) have had a greater influence and have moved some of the candidates to a less far right ideology, more in line with the general public.
Master,
Libertarian ideals are to maximize personal liberties and minimize gov't, specifically by a strict interpretation of the Constitution in regards to the federal govt. Yes those who follow a strict libertarian code would be safely described in Killer's post, but its not necessarily a lock step party. While I have met Libertarians that champion all private road ways most live in the real world and understand where to pick and choose their battles. The Libertarian and Green Party are the only two viable (I use the phrase loosely) parties with any real principles, integrity and intellectual honesty.
Thats not usually how it works in my experience. Most people I know became more conservative as they got older. I voted Republican early in my life, became an independent and then became a registered Libertarian about three years ago when I became fully disgusted with the main two parties.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheepHa I was a card carrying libertarian from 18 - 26, preaching the same things as you are now. The older I get the more liberal I get.Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorCharlie
Yeah social issues in general: gay rights, abortion, stuff like that has historically been under heavy debate in the libertarian party, nothing close to a consensus.Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorCharlie
hmmm I find that most Libertarians are in a consensus on social issues but start to differ on foreign policy, immigration and how much is too much privatization. It is usually easier to define personal liberty in social issues than disect the abstract of "too much govt". A good example of libertarian principles is the gay marriage issue. Instead of "civil unions" being an exception for homosexuals they should be the rule for all. Marriage is a religious ceremony and the gov't has no place in recognizing it but it can approve legal binding agreements between two consenting adults. Abortion gets a little trickier depending on when you believe "life" has happened in regards to the fetus, but for the most part libertarians would be pro-choice of some variety.
Yeah, it's a bit against the grain, I can see it clearly in most of my friends and relatives over the course of time we have vrtually switched positions for one reason or another.Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorCharlieThats not usually how it works in my experience. Most people I know became more conservative as they got older. I voted Republican early in my life, became an independent and then became a registered Libertarian about three years ago when I became fully disgusted with the main two parties.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheepHa I was a card carrying libertarian from 18 - 26, preaching the same things as you are now. The older I get the more liberal I get.Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorCharlie
How do you feel about the tax credit for having children?Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorCharlie
Killer I concede the current necessity for a federal income tax as a necessary evil but I would get rid of all credits, deductions, loopholes etc and have a simple progressive system based on gross earnings in the year.
1. No income tax paid
2. 0.5%
3. 1%
4. 2.5%
5. 5%
6. 10%
7. 15%
8. 20%
9. 25%
That being said my fantasy federal gov't would not require a federal income tax to fund it.
What about capital flight? Should it be allowed?Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorCharlie
You are going to have to be more specific on that one. I wouldn't tax interest earned on accounts whether they were CONUS or overseas. That income in theory has already been taxed once.
Specifically overseas as undocumented income. Furthermore, captial gains: taxed as income?Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorCharlie
Capital gains would fall into gross income but I would not tax inheritance or interest earned on investments/savings. Ok back to foreign investment. You have to differentiate investments and tax shelters. I'm no tax lawyer but basically if you are trying to hide income earned from U.S. investments, sales, salary etc in offshore accounts then I'd find a way to tax it. If you have legit foreign investments that earn income but are taxed by a foreign govt then I would not attempt to double tap that income source. This can get pretty thick in the weeds and fixing all the loopholes would take time and discipline. Ultimately make the tax code simple and the most equitable way to create revenue for the nation then adjust to catch the tax cheats.