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Just throwing it out their for your thoughts... suppose Sir Henry (RIP) landed 'Enry's 'Ammer' earlier in the round and went on to KO Ali. What would have been the impact to Ali and boxing history in general ?
Does Ali fight and win in the rematch and go on to fullfill his legacy or does a KO loss to Copper set him off down a different path ?
Sorry about spelling the name wrong trying to type quickly and on the sly at work !!!
Cooper would have fought Foreman in the jungle
They did have a rematch and Muhammad Ali won the same way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shamrock
:confused: Yeah I know a bit about boxing history ;D would Ali have been the same fighter though if he's been KO'd in the first fight ?Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBThey did have a rematch and Muhammad Ali won the same way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shamrock
I think he would of just been more intent on revenge, it may of effected his status. But remember he comeback from quite a beating off Joe Frazier. And comeback stronger in the rematches.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shamrock:confused: Yeah I know a bit about boxing history ;D would Ali have been the same fighter though if he's been KO'd in the first fight ?Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBThey did have a rematch and Muhammad Ali won the same way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shamrock
Muhammad Ali looked more beatable in the 60's actually, and everyone says that was his prime. Physically it may of been but he wasn't as smart as he was in the 70s.
He only just edged Doug Jones aswell, round about the sametime he fought Henry Cooper.
I think ali would have obliterated Cooper in the rematch and gone on to have an amazing career BUT the loss to cooper would have always been brought up in discussions as Lewis' losses to Macall and Rahman are. Fair dos the losses were avenged but they shouldn't have happened in the first place.
Not everyone would have got up from the shot that Cooper landed but like the great champ he was ali did.
yep though taking much more of a beating Ali bounced straight back up from Frazier's left in 71 but was in serious trouble against Cooper. Twenty seconds earlier and I am certain Cooper would have stopped him.
For the next few years Ali would have been like Khan is now, after Prescott, with opponents always fancying their chances of catching him. Will take a few years of being unbeaten before that memory is wiped out as it would have done for Ali. But he would have won a rematch no doubt - if he had got one !
Another thing is certain too if Henry had have won - they would have sold shit loads more Brut and we would still be wearing it now.
Cooper came REALLY close to winning that first fight. How would it have changed Ali? Not much is my guess. Ali was as mentally tough as as anyone I can think of.
It would have made Sir Henry a British all time hero though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui
he still is and always will be ;)
Glad to hear it!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark TKOQuote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui
he still is and always will be ;)
The big difference would have been the image and the persona that the then Cassius Clay was projecting to the world. Being the World Heavyweight Champion was a huge deal in the 1960's, Ali would not have been able to tell the world "I am the greatest" one of the most memorable phrases in world sports history. He would not have fought Liston in 1964, he would not have received the publicity he eventually did get after becoming World Champion, his conversion to Islam may have gone unoticed and maybe his controversial Army call up might not have happened. Ali was good, very good, i often think that at times he even distracted himself going into fights (Frazier 1 being an example) Cooper being another, Ali was there to impress the British public and let them know just exactly who he was and what he will become, he took Cooper for granted and got hit with the hammer.
If that left hook was delivered just 30 seconds earlier history would've being altered dramatically, it is conceivable to believe that Ali might not have recovered from that defeat? Many fighters take losses badly and who knows how it would've affected Ali to lose so early in his career? Ali did take notice of that left hook that got him, he was very wary after that and fought some big punchers and sluggers keeping his distance and using that famous jab to perfection. In some ways Enry's hammer helped Ali to become a better fighter. There is no doubt that Ali had utmost respect for Henry Cooper and he knew his career could've have been very different had 'Enry won.
Shamrock, you should be working!Quote:
Originally Posted by Shamrock
Cooper would have had to fight Liston and would have been brutally stopped in 2 rounds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shamrock
The best comparison I can think of to Cooper beating Ali, would be Max Schmeling stopping Joe Louis in their 1st fight, like Cooper-Clay, it was a non-title fight.
For what it's worth, I don't believe Clay was hurt nearly as bad by the KD in the Cooper fight as some boxing fans seem to think, I mean yeah he was shook, but saying he was out on his feet is an exaggeration. Aside from the KD, Cooper had zero chance of winning that fight. (no disrespect meant to 'Enery)
Bruno lived off his left hook against Tyson so why not old Henry. Ali was inexperienced kid against a seasoned fighter and was just caught. Ali would have recovered, even if he lost the fight and still become a great.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars_axQuote:
Originally Posted by Shamrock
The best comparison I can think of to Cooper beating Ali, would be Max Schmeling stopping Joe Louis in their 1st fight, like Cooper-Clay, it was a non-title fight.
For what it's worth, I don't believe Clay was hurt nearly as bad by the KD in the Cooper fight as some boxing fans seem to think, I mean yeah he was shook, but saying he was out on his feet is an exaggeration. Aside from the KD, Cooper had zero chance of winning that fight. (no disrespect meant to 'Enery)
:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterShamrock, you should be working!Quote:
Originally Posted by Shamrock
Ali would have learned the meaning of two words, duck and oops.