Dont know if its official, but Marquez is too old, too worn, and will probably be fighting at a weight that will be all wrong for him.
This is getting to be a joke
Boxing: Juan Manuel Marquez accepts offer to fight Manny Pacquiao - latimes.com
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Dont know if its official, but Marquez is too old, too worn, and will probably be fighting at a weight that will be all wrong for him.
This is getting to be a joke
Boxing: Juan Manuel Marquez accepts offer to fight Manny Pacquiao - latimes.com
Onix - who do you suggest he fights?Quote:
Originally Posted by Onix
I suggest he quit trying to point blame on Floyd and take the test.....
I fail to see how fighting a lb-4-lber, one who has arguably has beaten you twice, and one who is taller to boot, could possibly constitute a joke.
It speaks well of Pac that he's not avoiding his toughest competitor to date. As for the weight, it is customary for a fighter to go up, not come down. And its not like Pac towers over him.
I personally thought Pac should've taken the drug tests when they were first demanded. But at this point he appears willing to fight and PBF does not. JMM is an excellent 2nd option. Indeed, he's earned his shot and Pac is doing the right thing by giving him one.
Marquez was the one who said he got robbed in both fights , so let him get totally outclassed and KTFO .
I'm really not sure Manny has any good choices at this point if he will only fight as a welter.
Bradley is a 140, JMM is a 135, Kahn ain't ready, Cotto has been done, Sergio is a suicide mission...
Just not an abvious good choice. Of course I want to see Manny get to 135 and go for a fifth lineal crown or go to 140 and fight Bradley. Either of those would be an excellent choice.
This fight is at 144, the weight they both weigh come fight night will not be much different to when they fought last time. Pac was 145 and JMM 141 fight night in 2008.
don't bring weight into it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Onix
Marquez weighed 145 pounds when he walked into the ring against Katsidis in November 2011
Pac weighed 148 pounds when he walked into the ring against Margarito in November 2011 (no unofficial weight for his fight vs Mosley).
3 pounds difference. and guess what? Last time Marquez and Pac fought, I believe the weight difference was 4 pounds.
March 2008-Marquez vs Pac II- Pac's weight in the ring 145 pounds, Marquez's weight in the ring 141 pounds. (as pointed out in a post above)
Marquez is the size of an average lightweight when he gets in the ring. Pac a few pounds heavier is the size of a large lightweight or junior welterweight.
As for age and being shopworn, I wouldn't go that far. I would acknowledge that Pac seems to have improved since their last fight (though he regressed a little versus Mosley) while Marquez has declined a little bit (easier to hit cleanly).
Yeah I'd just like to see them go through the motions of dehydrating and making 135 so the lineal title was on the line. Could add a little spice.Quote:
Originally Posted by skel1983
Fuk that! I want to see the best Marquez and the best Pacquiao go at it!Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiYeah I'd just like to see them go through the motions of dehydrating and making 135 so the lineal title was on the line. Could add a little spice.Quote:
Originally Posted by skel1983
Why would you think that wouldn't produce the best? JMM is a 135 right and Manny only weighs on fight night what most top lightweights weigh anyway. I think Manny can make 135 without any diminution in performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by fan johnnyFuk that! I want to see the best Marquez and the best Pacquiao go at it!Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiYeah I'd just like to see them go through the motions of dehydrating and making 135 so the lineal title was on the line. Could add a little spice.Quote:
Originally Posted by skel1983
agreed. He could make 135. he eats up all the way up to the weigh in. He drinks all the way up to the weigh in. He only weighed 3 pounds more against Cheato (in the ring) than when he made 130 against Marquez the last time.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiWhy would you think that wouldn't produce the best? JMM is a 135 right and Manny only weighs on fight night what most top lightweights weigh anyway. I think Manny can make 135 without any diminution in performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by fan johnnyFuk that! I want to see the best Marquez and the best Pacquiao go at it!Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiYeah I'd just like to see them go through the motions of dehydrating and making 135 so the lineal title was on the line. Could add a little spice.Quote:
Originally Posted by skel1983
of course, that would make too much sense. Imagine all the dumb ass boxing writers who would be saying it was a mistake for him to go down in weight (when the man really didn't go up in weight).
Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratOnix - who do you suggest he fights?Quote:
Originally Posted by Onix
I know its a tough one to find someone for him, and its not really the weight that bothers me, its the age of his opponents in his last two fights. Before that he took on a way over matched and outclassed Margarito, at least the guy was in his prime somewhat but still coming off a huge loss which pretty much made that fight an obvious win for Pac.
He could take Victor Ortiz at 147lbs, he could take Bradley at 145lbs, I know Amir Khan wont get put in with him because of Roach, I'd even be more interested in him beating up Maidana for 12 rounds...basically anyone who isnt going to sit there and let Manny beat on them for XX amount of rounds.
Now I know Marquez is still head and shoulders above the guys I mentioned except maybe Khan however although he's still fresh compared to Mosley he's also going to be in a weight class that he has no business in.
I k now its not Mannys fault that no one worth while is around to face him and that he doesnt pick the fights technically, but if he really wanted to he could tell Arum "I want to fight someone in their prime" or "I want someone in my weight class." but he goes along with it...cmon Manny were all fans give us a competitive fight.
I dont get why everyone keeps saying Sergio would be suicide for pac? Why coz it might actually be a challenge? Hes beating guys like mosley, hatton, cotto, margarito, dela hoya while barely losing a round. Why should he keep fighting guys that are just going to fall with the first left hand, hes obviously handling the weight well so its not like that hes not tested at the weight anymore.
When the fight with Mosley was announced, people said he should have fought JMM. Now he's fighting JMM people are saying he should fight Bradley or Ortiz.
And if let's say he does fight Ortiz after JMM, it's going to be why didn't he fight Bradley since Ortiz has 2 losses and went life and death with Berto for a few rounds? Or if he fought Bradley it would be why didn't he fight Ortiz since Bradley is not a WW? Meh can't please everyone.
Sergio would have four inches in height, EIGHT inches in reach, probably 20-25 pounds in the ring and he's damned near as good an athlete as Manny is!Quote:
Originally Posted by Snakey
Yeah so in other words, Manny shouldnt fight him coz he will get beaten so he should just keep fighting sure things....that almost sounds like protecting a resume. Just for the record - I dont think Pac is anywhere near protected, he fights anyone and everyone but there doesnt seem to be anyone to challenge him at this weight. Although I think JMM will give him hell im just saying if he beats JMM and wants to keep fighting the only challenge may be Sergio.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiSergio would have four inches in height, EIGHT inches in reach, probably 20-25 pounds in the ring and he's damned near as good an athlete as Manny is!Quote:
Originally Posted by Snakey
Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiSergio would have four inches in height, EIGHT inches in reach, probably 20-25 pounds in the ring and he's damned near as good an athlete as Manny is!Quote:
Originally Posted by Snakey
Wheres the problem with this....sounds like the same stats they spoke of when he fought Margo
Margarito is taller than Sergio and sergios reach is 3 inches longer than Margaritos. So why didnt it matter when he fought Margarito...i think its because they knew Margarito was a plodding volume puncher instead of an explosive power puncher in Sergio.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiSergio would have four inches in height, EIGHT inches in reach, probably 20-25 pounds in the ring and he's damned near as good an athlete as Manny is!Quote:
Originally Posted by Snakey
LOL, read the WHOLE sentence!Quote:
Originally Posted by mafiajoeyQuote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiSergio would have four inches in height, EIGHT inches in reach, probably 20-25 pounds in the ring and he's damned near as good an athlete as Manny is!Quote:
Originally Posted by Snakey
Wheres the problem with this....sounds like the same stats they spoke of when he fought Margo
The problem is you didn't read the WHOLE sentence!Quote:
Originally Posted by mafiajoeyQuote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiSergio would have four inches in height, EIGHT inches in reach, probably 20-25 pounds in the ring and he's damned near as good an athlete as Manny is!Quote:
Originally Posted by Snakey
Wheres the problem with this....sounds like the same stats they spoke of when he fought Margo
Margarito was never a 160 pound fighter I believe. So it's expected that Manny should jump up another 2 weight division to fight Martinez at 160? And that's considered to be a fair fight? BTW, Martinez is on record saying that he can't get below MW, so the fight will have to happen at 160.
Btw a few weeks ago I did mentioned since Martinez can't find a challenge at 160 maybe he should move up to fight Andre Ward at 168 or another top 168 pounder. You know what the response was? The response was that it would be an unfair fight for Martinez to fight Ward, Bute, Froch, Kessler. And that it was a retarded idea. But it's an fair fight for Martinez to fight either Manny or Floyd at 160. hahahaha
No I did...so your saying he shouldnt fight Sergio coz Martinez is as good as he is and bigger...so he only fought margarito coz he knew he wasnt as good as him. Wouldnt call that looking for a challenge. If anyone else did that it would be called cherry picking.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiThe problem is you didn't read the WHOLE sentence!Quote:
Originally Posted by mafiajoeyQuote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiSergio would have four inches in height, EIGHT inches in reach, probably 20-25 pounds in the ring and he's damned near as good an athlete as Manny is!Quote:
Originally Posted by Snakey
Wheres the problem with this....sounds like the same stats they spoke of when he fought Margo
Horsehockey! In Margarito's case Manny had some advatages to offset Margarito's. In Sergio's case I think Manny has none to offset Sergio's massive size advantage.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeyNo I did...so your saying he shouldnt fight Sergio coz Martinez is as good as he is and bigger...so he only fought margarito coz he knew he wasnt as good as him. Wouldnt call that looking for a challenge. If anyone else did that it would be called cherry picking.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiThe problem is you didn't read the WHOLE sentence!Quote:
Originally Posted by mafiajoeyQuote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiSergio would have four inches in height, EIGHT inches in reach, probably 20-25 pounds in the ring and he's damned near as good an athlete as Manny is!Quote:
Originally Posted by Snakey
Wheres the problem with this....sounds like the same stats they spoke of when he fought Margo
Cherry picking would be avoiding guys your own size. Unless you want to make the case Marvin Hagler cherry picked because he didn't move up to face Mike Spinks or that Carlos Monzon cherry picked because he didn't challenge Bob Foster or Carlos Ortiz cherry picked because he didn't challenge Jose Napoles. You want to try to make those cases?
Manny is ALREADY fighting guys considerably larger and now you want him to move two MORE divisions?
Please name me all the fighters in history who have successfully fought across ten of today's divisions or the equivalent. When you run out of names before you run out of fingers? Think again how reasonable it is to be called a cherry picjker for not go up two MORE divisions.
Manny should fight Sergei Dzinziruk or Paul Williams, to say he's better the Martinez. I'll like to see Manny get past them 2.
Manny and Sergio at 154....it could happen. Manny has done it before. He did it for Margo when they fought for the Junior Midleweight title which is 154lbs.
If Martinez can make 154 whats that Pactards rebuttal to protect Manny?
Take away the fact hes moved up in weight so much, everyone said he was starving himself in the lower weights. If there was a fighter at welterweight that was dominating everyone and fights were looking like mismatches everyone would say he needs to move up. Im just saying as a fan I will pay to watch JMM fight Pac coz i think he has a good chance but im not going to pay to watch him fight guys like Ortiz and Bradley and I dont think the casual fan will even know who they are. If he wants to be on PPV then he needs big fights and lets face it he only has 3 options : PBF, JMM or Sergio. PBF doesnt look like happening, JMM is happening and he wont fight Sergio....so thats one fight that people will care about.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiHorsehockey! In Margarito's case Manny had some advatages to offset Margarito's. In Sergio's case I think Manny has none to offset Sergio's massive size advantage.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeyNo I did...so your saying he shouldnt fight Sergio coz Martinez is as good as he is and bigger...so he only fought margarito coz he knew he wasnt as good as him. Wouldnt call that looking for a challenge. If anyone else did that it would be called cherry picking.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiThe problem is you didn't read the WHOLE sentence!Quote:
Originally Posted by mafiajoeyQuote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiSergio would have four inches in height, EIGHT inches in reach, probably 20-25 pounds in the ring and he's damned near as good an athlete as Manny is!Quote:
Originally Posted by Snakey
Wheres the problem with this....sounds like the same stats they spoke of when he fought Margo
Cherry picking would be avoiding guys your own size. Unless you want to make the case Marvin Hagler cherry picked because he didn't move up to face Mike Spinks or that Carlos Monzon cherry picked because he didn't challenge Bob Foster or Carlos Ortiz cherry picked because he didn't challenge Jose Napoles. You want to try to make those cases?
Manny is ALREADY fighting guys considerably larger and now you want him to move two MORE divisions?
Please name me all the fighters in history who have successfully fought across ten of today's divisions or the equivalent. When you run out of names before you run out of fingers? Think again how reasonable it is to be called a cherry picjker for not go up two MORE divisions.
P.S.
I love how the Pac fans keep saying he would have to jump two more divisions and this and that and 160lbs. Nobody is saying 160lbs. Sergio said he couldn't do 150lbs I think they meet at 154lbs. It could happen. But Pac will make an excuse. And instead of hitting this question dead on most of the Pac fans will reply with an answer that involves Floyds name somehow lol
LOL, like Manny's accomplishments need anybody's defense.Quote:
Originally Posted by mafiajoey
Name me ten fighters in history who have succeeded across as Many divisions (or equivalents) as Manny has. I can wait...
Then when you've failed to come up with even ten in all history, ask yourself why it is reasonable to say Manny sucks if he doesn't try for ELEVEN divisions. Don't you have to complain about the other 99.999% of all fighters who ever fought who didn't fight in ten divsions first?
Fine, make it ONE more division. It changes the argument not one whit.Quote:
Originally Posted by mafiajoey
Name me ten men in history who have succeeded across even ten of today's equivalents.
Gotta leave Floyd out of the picture cause Manny has fights already set up before the one in front of him is even over. So he can avoid the whole drug test demand. I think Pac and Martinez would be an awesome fight...I don't know why the Pac fans are doubting him so much. I think Pac performs even greater when hes getting hit and not just at a sparring session with a left over fighter. Let me guess...Pac will beat JMM then he will fight Judah. And everyone will buy into it because Pac fans only care that Pac beat guys Floyd beat prior. Because this is how they justify this shit to themselves.
Sorry just to clarify as I didnt realise I missed this - I think if Manny could go to 154 and make a deal to fight against Sergio there then that would be fine. No i dont expect him to go up to 160, I agree that would be too much.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
Awesome fight in what way? In a way that you know Martinez has all the advantages to brutalize Manny which proves that you're a pachater or you think that it's competitive which makes you a worse pacnuthugger. But everyone knows that your reasoning is not the later. Even the Pacfans acknowledges his limitations.Quote:
Originally Posted by mafiajoey
Mafiajoey, we are still waiting for your response to this.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiFine, make it ONE more division. It changes the argument not one whit.Quote:
Originally Posted by mafiajoey
Name me ten men in history who have succeeded across even ten of today's equivalents.
Pac vs Martinez, I bet Arum is secretly licking his lips. I'd love to see Pacquiao give it a go. I wouldn't expect him to survive too many big hits but I'd love to see him go at it.
I firmly believe that Pac is ducking Klitchko as well.
Heh, Heh, HehQuote:
Originally Posted by frasd
You think? It IS because having to de-hydrate and then re-hydrate takes away energy that can be used in the fight. It also reduces the amount of water around the brain providing protection thus the reason for the 24 hour weigh-in. Coming into the ring at the natural weight is optimum. No excuses.Quote:
Originally Posted by captainanddewagreed. He could make 135. he eats up all the way up to the weigh in. He drinks all the way up to the weigh in. He only weighed 3 pounds more against Cheato (in the ring) than when he made 130 against Marquez the last time.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiWhy would you think that wouldn't produce the best? JMM is a 135 right and Manny only weighs on fight night what most top lightweights weigh anyway. I think Manny can make 135 without any diminution in performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by fan johnnyFuk that! I want to see the best Marquez and the best Pacquiao go at it!Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiYeah I'd just like to see them go through the motions of dehydrating and making 135 so the lineal title was on the line. Could add a little spice.Quote:
Originally Posted by skel1983
of course, that would make too much sense. Imagine all the dumb ass boxing writers who would be saying it was a mistake for him to go down in weight (when the man really didn't go up in weight).
I diagree with your above when someone has more than 24 hours to recover. But more importantly you leave out the other side of the equation. If fighter A doesn't cut and Fighter B does and they both just make the (for the sake of argument) 147 limit 24+ hours before? The necessarily means Fighter A is going to be the smaller man in the ring during the fight by what? ten pounds or so and maybe more? My point is thewre is a cost involved. Now that's a general point that I don't think applies in the specific JMM-Manny case.Quote:
Originally Posted by fan johnnyYou think? It IS because having to de-hydrate and then re-hydrate takes away energy that can be used in the fight. It also reduces the amount of water around the brain providing protection thus the reason for the 24 hour weigh-in. Coming into the ring at the natural weight is optimum. No excuses.Quote:
Originally Posted by captainanddewagreed. He could make 135. he eats up all the way up to the weigh in. He drinks all the way up to the weigh in. He only weighed 3 pounds more against Cheato (in the ring) than when he made 130 against Marquez the last time.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiWhy would you think that wouldn't produce the best? JMM is a 135 right and Manny only weighs on fight night what most top lightweights weigh anyway. I think Manny can make 135 without any diminution in performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by fan johnnyFuk that! I want to see the best Marquez and the best Pacquiao go at it!Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiYeah I'd just like to see them go through the motions of dehydrating and making 135 so the lineal title was on the line. Could add a little spice.Quote:
Originally Posted by skel1983
of course, that would make too much sense. Imagine all the dumb ass boxing writers who would be saying it was a mistake for him to go down in weight (when the man really didn't go up in weight).