Duran-DeJesus III

If you've all done your homework you saw a young Duran do a Henry Armstrong imitation to beat Ken Buchanan. His head on Buchanan's chest, endless punching and savagry and some wild moves.

Now you are going to see Duran fully developed more than five years later. Esteban DeJesus, ranked #1, is the only man to beat Duran and though Duran won the second fight he was on the deck in each one. In each of those fights Duran pursued, Esteban countered. Now watch Duran out counter the counterpuncher.

Duran's talent has now been complimented by Ray Arcel's and Freddie Brown teaching him skill and imparting, and Roberto absorbing, almost 100 years of accumulated Ring wisdom. The movements are more efficient, his approach more measured and yet the ferocity remains. For those who have the image of Duran as brawler? Prepare yourselves!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6UJVgruJZM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAnHuFpu138&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GfjgEl-FeU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtuoN_NEHNI&feature=related

Duran was a beast, not a man. I swear he would have murdered Chavez, Pryor and Pacquiao at any weight.. Speaking of Dejesus, it's criminal how underrated he is.. He's the 5th greatest Puerto Rican fighter in my eyes, right behind Tito..

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Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita

Duran was a beast, not a man. I swear he would have murdered Chavez, Pryor and Pacquiao at any weight.. Speaking of Dejesus, it's criminal how underrated he is.. He's the 5th greatest Puerto Rican fighter in my eyes, right behind Tito..

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The thing about Duran is by 1975-76 he could be whatever he needed to be in the ring. He could still be the Henry Armstrong type brawler (ask Ray Leonard) or he could box your ears off (ask Carlos Palomino) or he could deliver a measured offensive beating (Davey Moore) or a beating via counterpunching (The Blade).

There just haven't been many like him.

I suspect the thing keeping Esteban out of the Hall is killing a teenager. What a great fighter he was.

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Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita

Duran was a beast, not a man. I swear he would have murdered Chavez, Pryor and Pacquiao at any weight.. Speaking of Dejesus, it's criminal how underrated he is.. He's the 5th greatest Puerto Rican fighter in my eyes, right behind Tito..

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De Jesus would've been one of the greatest Lightweight champions of all time if not for Duran.

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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

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Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita

Duran was a beast, not a man. I swear he would have murdered Chavez, Pryor and Pacquiao at any weight.. Speaking of Dejesus, it's criminal how underrated he is.. He's the 5th greatest Puerto Rican fighter in my eyes, right behind Tito..

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De Jesus would've been one of the greatest Lightweight champions of all time if not for Duran.

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Duran prevented him from maybe being the greatest. Didn't prevent him from being one of the great ones

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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

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Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita

Duran was a beast, not a man. I swear he would have murdered Chavez, Pryor and Pacquiao at any weight.. Speaking of Dejesus, it's criminal how underrated he is.. He's the 5th greatest Puerto Rican fighter in my eyes, right behind Tito..

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De Jesus would've been one of the greatest Lightweight champions of all time if not for Duran.

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He still is one of the greatest of all time. He's just under the likes of Leonard, Armstrong, Gans, Williams, Ortiz, Duran and Canzoneri. He's an easy top 15 pick all time imo.

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

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Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita

Duran was a beast, not a man. I swear he would have murdered Chavez, Pryor and Pacquiao at any weight.. Speaking of Dejesus, it's criminal how underrated he is.. He's the 5th greatest Puerto Rican fighter in my eyes, right behind Tito..

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De Jesus would've been one of the greatest Lightweight champions of all time if not for Duran.

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He still is one of the greatest of all time. He's just under the likes of Leonard, Armstrong, Gans, Williams, Ortiz, Duran and Canzoneri. He's an easy top 15 pick all time imo.

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I was thinking of a guy today to get the younguns who don't know Dejesus to understand how good he was. The name I came up with? Juan Manuel Marquez.
Waddya think? Is that more or less fair?

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Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

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Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita

Duran was a beast, not a man. I swear he would have murdered Chavez, Pryor and Pacquiao at any weight.. Speaking of Dejesus, it's criminal how underrated he is.. He's the 5th greatest Puerto Rican fighter in my eyes, right behind Tito..

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De Jesus would've been one of the greatest Lightweight champions of all time if not for Duran.

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He still is one of the greatest of all time. He's just under the likes of Leonard, Armstrong, Gans, Williams, Ortiz, Duran and Canzoneri. He's an easy top 15 pick all time imo.

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I was thinking of a guy today to get the younguns who don't know Dejesus to understand how good he was. The name I came up with? Juan Manuel Marquez.
Waddya think? Is that more or less fair?

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I'd say that's spot on.

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Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

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Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita

Duran was a beast, not a man. I swear he would have murdered Chavez, Pryor and Pacquiao at any weight.. Speaking of Dejesus, it's criminal how underrated he is.. He's the 5th greatest Puerto Rican fighter in my eyes, right behind Tito..

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De Jesus would've been one of the greatest Lightweight champions of all time if not for Duran.

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He still is one of the greatest of all time. He's just under the likes of Leonard, Armstrong, Gans, Williams, Ortiz, Duran and Canzoneri. He's an easy top 15 pick all time imo.

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I was thinking of a guy today to get the younguns who don't know Dejesus to understand how good he was. The name I came up with? Juan Manuel Marquez.
Waddya think? Is that more or less fair?

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Yeah that's a good comparison. Especially the mentality. One of the reasons Marquez does well against Pacquiao is the same reason Dejesus did well against Duran. He wasn't scared of him. Duran at lightweight was an intimidating fighter. But Dejesus had no fear of him.

Duran was such a great fighter. He was a beast with a good boxing brain. I think he defines the word greatness.

In my top 10 favorite trilogies...

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

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Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita

Duran was a beast, not a man. I swear he would have murdered Chavez, Pryor and Pacquiao at any weight.. Speaking of Dejesus, it's criminal how underrated he is.. He's the 5th greatest Puerto Rican fighter in my eyes, right behind Tito..

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De Jesus would've been one of the greatest Lightweight champions of all time if not for Duran.

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Duran prevented him from maybe being the greatest. Didn't prevent him from being one of the great ones

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No doubt one of the greatest Puerto Rican fighters, he beat Duran once and knocked him down twice at his peak. If Marquez is difficult for Manny today then DeJesus would give Manny one helluva time.

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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

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Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita

Duran was a beast, not a man. I swear he would have murdered Chavez, Pryor and Pacquiao at any weight.. Speaking of Dejesus, it's criminal how underrated he is.. He's the 5th greatest Puerto Rican fighter in my eyes, right behind Tito..

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De Jesus would've been one of the greatest Lightweight champions of all time if not for Duran.

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Duran prevented him from maybe being the greatest. Didn't prevent him from being one of the great ones

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No doubt one of the greatest Puerto Rican fighters, he beat Duran once and knocked him down twice at his peak. If Marquez is difficult for Manny today then DeJesus would give Manny one helluva time.

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Yup. Esteban would give anyone a hard time.

Duran was a great fighter but what a saw in the Leonard rematch as that he could be out boxed.

I'd be interested in going back and having a look at these 3 in a row. Nothing like a two, three fight series and seeing a fighters adaptation to a familiar opponent. Duran developed much respect for his power yrs earlier, brought out his best.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Duran was a great fighter but what a saw in the Leonard rematch as that he could be out boxed.

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LOL, yeah. By one of the 15 or so greatest fighters and top 3 welters ever to lace'm up!

That's like saying a baseball player couldn't hit a fastball because he couldn't hit Sandy Koufax's ;)

Well yea i give a pass to Leonard and Benitez but come on Laing wtf happen there dude.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Well yea i give a pass to Leonard and Benitez but come on Laing wtf happen there dude.

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A TERRIBLE loss. No question.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Well yea i give a pass to Leonard and Benitez but come on Laing wtf happen there dude.

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That Duran was already a couple of years removed from his prime. A prime Duran murders Laing

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Well yea i give a pass to Leonard and Benitez but come on Laing wtf happen there dude.

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That Duran was already a couple of years removed from his prime. A prime Duran murders Laing

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The problem with that line of thinking is Duran had a whole second prime didn't he? I mean from Laing he went on to beat Cuevas, Moore, go the distance with marvin and beat the Blade!

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Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Well yea i give a pass to Leonard and Benitez but come on Laing wtf happen there dude.

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That Duran was already a couple of years removed from his prime. A prime Duran murders Laing

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The problem with that line of thinking is Duran had a whole second prime didn't he? I mean from Laing he went on to beat Cuevas, Moore, go the distance with marvin and beat the Blade!

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Uh no. Duran's last peak prime was over after the Palomino fight. After that it started leaving him. After the 2nd Leonard fight it was gone. Once it leaves it doesn't come back. After 73 career fights how can it? But just cuz a fighter isn't in his prime doesn't mean he can't be successful. His success later on against Moore, Hagler and Cuevas only point to how great the man truly was. And how strong his will and heart are when motivated. When is the key word. A lot of a past his prime fighters continued success comes from fitness and motivation. Since he can no longer do what he once could and his skills can no longer cover up any mistake he made, he must work harder and stay motivated. It's pretty obvious the Duran that faced Laing wasn't in top shape or even motivated

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Well yea i give a pass to Leonard and Benitez but come on Laing wtf happen there dude.

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That Duran was already a couple of years removed from his prime. A prime Duran murders Laing

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The problem with that line of thinking is Duran had a whole second prime didn't he? I mean from Laing he went on to beat Cuevas, Moore, go the distance with marvin and beat the Blade!

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Uh no. Duran's last peak prime was over after the Palomino fight. After that it started leaving him. After the 2nd Leonard fight it was gone. Once it leaves it doesn't come back. After 73 career fights how can it? But just cuz a fighter isn't in his prime doesn't mean he can't be successful. His success later on against Moore, Hagler and Cuevas only point to how great the man truly was. And how strong his will and heart are when motivated. When is the key word. A lot of a past his prime fighters continued success comes from fitness and motivation. Since he can no longer do what he once could and his skills can no longer cover up any mistake he made, he must work harder and stay motivated. It's pretty obvious the Duran that faced Laing wasn't in top shape or even motivated

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I think you and I use a different terminology. I agree Duran was NEVER again at his PEAK once he left the lightweights. But I'm not sure it is possible for a non-prime fighter to fight a top 5 all-time guy 25 pounds higher to a standstill except by being in his prime. I sort of think bt definition it can't happen. I think Duran's greatness is somewhat the result of being able to compete at a world class level (one definition of prime) for what? 20 years? Marcel to the Blade?

Duran reigned supreme throughout the 70's as a Lightweight culminating with his bullish performance over a somewhat over awed Sugar Ray Leonard in their first fight at WW. That was the final time we really saw the Hands Of Stone at his peak, De Jesus was there as Duran's arch enemy at Lightweight and deserves full credit for not only beating Duran once, but competing like no other fighter could against Duran at his peak.

I just re watched Duran V Leonard 1, check out the pre fight ref instructions, Duran looks totally focused, totally committed to what was about to unfold, Leonard looks almost resigned to the fact he will lose this fight, (look for wry smile) He came out flat footed and IMO not prepared for the tornado that was Roberto Duran. Esteban De Jesus did well against Duran because he was not intimidated or scared of him. The stroke of real genius from Leonard after this fight was obtaining a rematch so soon after the brawl in Montreal, knowing fully well Duran would not be prepared. The biggest mistake of Roberto Duran's career.

Leonard was dumb in the first fight should of just boxed would of won it like the rematch.

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

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Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita

Duran was a beast, not a man. I swear he would have murdered Chavez, Pryor and Pacquiao at any weight.. Speaking of Dejesus, it's criminal how underrated he is.. He's the 5th greatest Puerto Rican fighter in my eyes, right behind Tito..

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De Jesus would've been one of the greatest Lightweight champions of all time if not for Duran.

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He still is one of the greatest of all time. He's just under the likes of Leonard, Armstrong, Gans, Williams, Ortiz, Duran and Canzoneri. He's an easy top 15 pick all time imo.

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I was thinking of a guy today to get the younguns who don't know Dejesus to understand how good he was. The name I came up with? Juan Manuel Marquez.
Waddya think? Is that more or less fair?

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Yeah that's a good comparison. Especially the mentality. One of the reasons Marquez does well against Pacquiao is the same reason Dejesus did well against Duran. He wasn't scared of him. Duran at lightweight was an intimidating fighter. But Dejesus had no fear of him.

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Hmmm. This conversation certainly got me thinking...

Precursor to the Pac/ Marquez rubber-match much?

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Leonard was dumb in the first fight should of just boxed would of won it like the rematch.

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Leonard wasn't dumb, he fell into a trap laid by Duran. What happened is all that matters.

DeJesus was a very good fighter. Anyone who knows anything about this sport can readily witness his excellence jumping off the screen.

I think his exclusion from the Hall of Fame is correct, however. His actual accomplishments are more on par, in my mind, with a Terrence Alli or someone of that ilk. That could be overstating it a bit, but I don't think he's near any of the top 5 PR fighters.

The win over Duran looms large, perhaps more than any non-title win over a champ in history. I don't see any other fighter's career buoyed by such a win to the level DeJesus enjoys. He beat several leading lightweights--the Johnny Gants and Ray Lampkins of the world. A nice run as WBC champ, too. Throw in wins with Viruet, Peppermint, Guts Ishimatsu, Yamabe. A good career? You bet.

But! He was never the best in his weight class, never won a genuine championship, and loses any sentimental mojo by being an apparent scumbag as a person. It's not often I side with the Canastota Crew, but they got this one right.

I saw that fight on the day it happened and I underestimated Duran's boxing skills until that fight. I must have watched it ten times and said to myself what an adjustment. Duran was a great fighter but don't forget one thing, Dejesus skill, courage and fortitude made Duran go through the rites of greatness. To be great you have to demonstrate to those equally great that you deserve their respect and Duran got it even past his prime.

YouTube - ‪Esteban DeJesus Knocks Down ROBERTO DURAN‬‏


Look at that left hook, Duran is all over the place, he shakes his head, he is shocked!

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Originally Posted by Gallegos Boxing Gym

DeJesus was a very good fighter. Anyone who knows anything about this sport can readily witness his excellence jumping off the screen.

I think his exclusion from the Hall of Fame is correct, however. His actual accomplishments are more on par, in my mind, with a Terrence Alli or someone of that ilk. That could be overstating it a bit, but I don't think he's near any of the top 5 PR fighters.

The win over Duran looms large, perhaps more than any non-title win over a champ in history. I don't see any other fighter's career buoyed by such a win to the level DeJesus enjoys. He beat several leading lightweights--the Johnny Gants and Ray Lampkins of the world. A nice run as WBC champ, too. Throw in wins with Viruet, Peppermint, Guts Ishimatsu, Yamabe. A good career? You bet.

But! He was never the best in his weight class, never won a genuine championship, and loses any sentimental mojo by being an apparent scumbag as a person. It's not often I side with the Canastota Crew, but they got this one right.

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Interesting take, I happen to disagree, as being competitive with Duran in the way he was & beating some credible contenders makes him deserving for me, although there are maybe a few other absentees who would get in ahead of him for me.

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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

YouTube - ‪Esteban DeJesus Knocks Down ROBERTO DURAN‬‏


Look at that left hook, Duran is all over the place, he shakes his head, he is shocked!

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Yup. Mr. Duran is thinking "WTF was THAT?"

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Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui

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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

YouTube - ‪Esteban DeJesus Knocks Down ROBERTO DURAN‬‏


Look at that left hook, Duran is all over the place, he shakes his head, he is shocked!

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Yup. Mr. Duran is thinking "WTF was THAT?"

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Duran also had the chin of granite because that left hook would've sent most other fighters into orbit. Duran lost this fight, he got nailed again in the second fight almost identically.
De Jesus in any other era is a true champion.

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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

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Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui

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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

YouTube - ‪Esteban DeJesus Knocks Down ROBERTO DURAN‬‏


Look at that left hook, Duran is all over the place, he shakes his head, he is shocked!

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Yup. Mr. Duran is thinking "WTF was THAT?"

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Duran also had the chin of granite because that left hook would've sent most other fighters into orbit. Duran lost this fight, he got nailed again in the second fight almost identically.
De Jesus in any other era is a true champion.

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Agree on all counts.

In my top 10 favorite trilogies of all time...
"El Vita" in my opinion is 1 of the best lightweights of all time. Sad to know about his life after boxing, very tragic.