Boxing - Margarito accepts Cotto fight
I fancy Cotto to take him apart this time.
Though it will never be proven we'll see that Marg's gloves were indeed loaded in that first fight I think.
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Boxing - Margarito accepts Cotto fight
I fancy Cotto to take him apart this time.
Though it will never be proven we'll see that Marg's gloves were indeed loaded in that first fight I think.
Did Margarito already get the medical clearance to fight again?
Booooooo-urns.
Margarito knocks him out again. Cotto's chin hasn't gotten any better with ago, he will still have the same stamina problems, and Margarito's style is just all wrong for him. I also don't think Cotto will be able to hurt Margarito.
Hey! we finally agree on something rjj tszyu. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyu
I'd be interested in seeing this fight, it answers a lot of questions. I believe Miguel gets some revenge and payback in this one and stops Margo in the later rounds.
I believe Margarito has cheated before the Mosley fight, but I don't believe that he loaded his gloves in the Cotto fight. I think it all depends on how far gone Margarito's chin is. If he can take Cotto's shots for 5-6 rounds then I think he wins this as his pressure will overwhelm Miguel again. I hope I'm wrong. Should definitely be given a 24/7 or FC 360 imo. Cotto might be one of the most boring fighters alive, but Margarito is pure gold at playing the bad guy.
I disagree, I believe Cotto will definately be able to hurt Margo, especially after he's been softened up by Mosley and Pacquaio.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
Now I do think he had loaded gloves vs Cotto. If you watch how Cotto's face and nose in particular just seemed to get demolished by not that many punches I think there is some evidence pointing towards Margs gloves being loaded. Especially when you take into account the fact that Marg isn't a huge puncher too. Anyway that cannot be proven so there is no point really getting into it.Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkin
Agree that Marg is great at playing the bad guy but being a complete dick head certainly helps in that department :D . As for Cotto being boring I assume you mean outside the ring?
This year could well be turning into a good one for boxing, we have 2 meaningful fights at HW signed and ready to go (all being well), Pac is finally giving Marquez his chance to settle the score although slightly out of his comfort zone, Floyd is making a comeback against a fast young southpaw which is hopefully a sign that the Pac fight may be in sight providing they both come through, and now this controversial fight can be re fought and Cotto can get his revenge if he does indeed have what it takes. I think he will have too much for Marg and I see him outpointing him comfortably.
I begrudge Marg getting ANOTHER massive payday (he ain't done bad out of cheating has he?) but I hope Cotto knocks ten bells of shit out him just so we can all say "the gloves were definitely loaded" if Marg wins again then Cotto is simply not that good.
I hope Cotto demolishes him though because he's a nice guy and I love his style.
Margarito landed almost 250 power punches in that fight. Pacquiao landed a similar number & did a similar job on his face. I don't know about him not being a big puncher. Apart from early in his career when he was a teenager, he's stopped the majority. Post-fight he didn't behave in a way a man with loaded wraps would imo. Anyway I posted this in another thread, but it pretty much says why I feel he probably didn't in the Cotto fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyu
I came to it from the angle that people kept asking why he would do it for the first time against Mosley. I'll say that I don't believe it was the first time he or his team attempted it. However, the only occasion previously that I strongly believe he may have done it was the Lujan fight, as on that occasion there was horrific damage done by punches which he seemingly wasn't putting all his force into & at the end he was in no rush to take off those gloves & when he did was heavily surrounded at all times by his team.
Anyway back to the Mosley question. If that was the first time there were a number of reasons why that might be. He had apparently been partying plenty after beating Cotto & had had real trouble with the weight & was reportedly really struggling in sparring. Add to that, Mosley still had his iron chin (which I can almost pinpoint the moment it cracked but that's another thread). Capetillo is a boxing man & would've looked at all that & thought 'shit, there could be real problems here'. He would've looked at Mosley's reach & foreseen real issues getting him to break in the way they did Cotto. Cotto let's bear in mind had chin issues long before Margs & as high as everyone was on him, the second half of the Mosley fight showed he had issues with stamina & output. Those would be exactly the kind of issues that Margarito with his chin, workrate & stamina would be able to test. I think there would be in fact far more reason to load for Mosley given the surrounding factors than otherwise.
As I said, I believe he maybe did do it before that, but only on occasions where he could get away with it and/or really needed to. A smaller venue show like the Lujan one coming off the back of the Santos loss or on 'home' turf in Cali would seem to fit that more than in Las Vegas against the guy who at that point seemed to be groomed as Top Rank's new poster boy & was being lined up to fight De La Hoya with a win. We'll never know, but let's face it Cotto looked much the same after Pacquiao landed a similar number of punches on it. Although don't go thinking I'm an apologist. I believe Margarito & Capetillo should've been banned for life just like Resto & Lewis were.
Anyway back to the other points, yeah I meant Cotto being boring as a person, obviously not as a fighter & yeah Margarito is a grade A cunt, so he is brilliant at playing the baddie.
The thing is the in the Cotto fight I think it was the 2nd round that a lot of the damage to the nose occurred and then as the fight went on and Cotto struggled more for air he was easier to hit and the damage just continued to mount. I believe he smashed Cotto's nose because he was cheating.Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkinMargarito landed almost 250 power punches in that fight. Pacquiao landed a similar number & did a similar job on his face. I don't know about him not being a big puncher. Apart from early in his career when he was a teenager, he's stopped the majority. Post-fight he didn't behave in a way a man with loaded wraps would imo. Anyway I posted this in another thread, but it pretty much says why I feel he probably didn't in the Cotto fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyu
I came to it from the angle that people kept asking why he would do it for the first time against Mosley. I'll say that I don't believe it was the first time he or his team attempted it. However, the only occasion previously that I strongly believe he may have done it was the Lujan fight, as on that occasion there was horrific damage done by punches which he seemingly wasn't putting all his force into & at the end he was in no rush to take off those gloves & when he did was heavily surrounded at all times by his team.
Anyway back to the Mosley question. If that was the first time there were a number of reasons why that might be. He had apparently been partying plenty after beating Cotto & had had real trouble with the weight & was reportedly really struggling in sparring. Add to that, Mosley still had his iron chin (which I can almost pinpoint the moment it cracked but that's another thread). Capetillo is a boxing man & would've looked at all that & thought 'shit, there could be real problems here'. He would've looked at Mosley's reach & foreseen real issues getting him to break in the way they did Cotto. Cotto let's bear in mind had chin issues long before Margs & as high as everyone was on him, the second half of the Mosley fight showed he had issues with stamina & output. Those would be exactly the kind of issues that Margarito with his chin, workrate & stamina would be able to test. I think there would be in fact far more reason to load for Mosley given the surrounding factors than otherwise.
As I said, I believe he maybe did do it before that, but only on occasions where he could get away with it and/or really needed to. A smaller venue show like the Lujan one coming off the back of the Santos loss or on 'home' turf in Cali would seem to fit that more than in Las Vegas against the guy who at that point seemed to be groomed as Top Rank's new poster boy & was being lined up to fight De La Hoya with a win. We'll never know, but let's face it Cotto looked much the same after Pacquiao landed a similar number of punches on it. Although don't go thinking I'm an apologist. I believe Margarito & Capetillo should've been banned for life just like Resto & Lewis were.
Anyway back to the other points, yeah I meant Cotto being boring as a person, obviously not as a fighter & yeah Margarito is a grade A cunt, so he is brilliant at playing the baddie.
Also I think Lyle posted some photo's on here of Marg's wraps whilst he was celebrating his win vs Cotto and I must admit his wraps looked Suspicious. Anyway as I said before I have no way of proving he did cheat it is just my opinion that he did, but before the Mosley fight the thought never even crossed my mind and then hindsight kicked in and we all know how great a thing that can be.
Cotto just got his ass beat. The Cotto stans just needs to move on, seriously. Always some excuse when a guy that's in his prime loses.
Cotto caves the cheating bastard's eye in 8
looks like I have to re-new my sky for Pac man v JMM and this fight.
Next time you call up to cancel you should tell them you're doing it because it's too expensive. They usually start offering you really cheap packages just to stay with themQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
What's the height and reach difference on them? Margarito by quite a bit?
I've seen those photos & they convince me of nothing. It's very hard to believe that they would use exactly the same wraps all that time later because it would mean that the plaster of paris on the wraps would already be hard. The whole point is that it sets properly after the gloves are on. One that's 6 months old would really not be ideal. Not to mention that someone who knows he's got bricks in his wraps wouldn't be parading them to all & sundry.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyu
Also getting a nose busted up just means a punch connected right imo. I recently had the same thing happen & it was not off the hardest puncher I've ever faced. Don't get me wrong, I believe Margarito is a cheating scumbag, but Cotto is a very likeable & popular fighter & I think that's why people look to make excuses for him. It's funny that far less sympathy abounds for Cintron despite the fact he took 2 beatings off Margarito. I believe that Margarito is all wrong for Cotto, his best punch (the uppercut) is what Cotto is way to open for.
Tough one to call. But I hope Cotto get his revenge.
It was announced by Team Margarito that he has been medically cleared to rematch Miguel Cotto on December 3rd.Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheNeutralCorner
Link : Antonio Margarito medically cleared for Miguel Cotto rematch in December - Pittsburgh Fight Sports | Examiner.com
I think Margarito walks through his punches and stops Cotto late. It would be nice to see Cotto get some revenge but i don't see it happening.
cotto is better preserved than Cheato. His beatings by Mosley and Pac probably took more out of him than Cotto's losses to Cheato and Pac.
Well obviously it won't be the exact same plaster strips used on Cotto as what was used on Mosley, BUT it's not a hard thing to get a few of. I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree and see how the rematch pans out and then make a judgement!Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkinI've seen those photos & they convince me of nothing. It's very hard to believe that they would use exactly the same wraps all that time later because it would mean that the plaster of paris on the wraps would already be hard. The whole point is that it sets properly after the gloves are on. One that's 6 months old would really not be ideal. Not to mention that someone who knows he's got bricks in his wraps wouldn't be parading them to all & sundry.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyu
Also getting a nose busted up just means a punch connected right imo. I recently had the same thing happen & it was not off the hardest puncher I've ever faced. Don't get me wrong, I believe Margarito is a cheating scumbag, but Cotto is a very likeable & popular fighter & I think that's why people look to make excuses for him. It's funny that far less sympathy abounds for Cintron despite the fact he took 2 beatings off Margarito. I believe that Margarito is all wrong for Cotto, his best punch (the uppercut) is what Cotto is way to open for.
Good. Now let's get ready to rummmmbbbblllleeeeee !!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by foxbat1126It was announced by Team Margarito that he has been medically cleared to rematch Miguel Cotto on December 3rd.Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheNeutralCorner
Link : Antonio Margarito medically cleared for Miguel Cotto rematch in December - Pittsburgh Fight Sports | Examiner.com
If the same Cotto and Margarito who faced Pacquiao are the ones who's facing each other, then I think the fight will go to Margarito. But I'm routing for Cotto because I believe that he was cheated in their last fight.
It is with Virgin and they do not care and cannot reduce it anymore unfortunately. I have thought about re-new with Sky for a month directly as I have the box and I am sure they would make me offers to stay with them. I could do that I suppose, they may offer the HD box for free.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cressa121Next time you call up to cancel you should tell them you're doing it because it's too expensive. They usually start offering you really cheap packages just to stay with themQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
yeah, i think it's going to be pretty much similar to the first fight. once cotto starts slowing down in the mid to late rounds he'll be margo's for the taking.Quote:
Originally Posted by MMASUX
If Cotto wants to win there's only one way. Jab,Jab, Jab, and get inside and punch the lanky body of Margo's. He can't let him breathe. It's like the old time boxers say, Cotto has got to bob and weave, he can't give this monster a free ride by exposing his head. The fight has to be tight vicious and ugly. Give this monster a taste of a telephone booth type of fight.
Repeat.
Margo could refracture his facial bone. This time, I'm sure he will have second thought of walking through Cotto's punches. Once that cheek swells up bad, I expect the ringside doctor to stop the fight in a heartbeat.Quote:
Originally Posted by MMASUX
Agree - would love Margo to get a pasting!Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsebastianmiran
I hope you're right Bro, it's just Cotto is susceptible to an uppercut:-\Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsebastianmiran
I didn't want this fight to happen, but now that it appears it will....
Stewart's the key here. Miguel fought Margacheato all wrong in the first fight. He threw punches off his back foot. Mosley then showed the world how it's done, by putting his whole body into the punches. If Cotto can mix up his superior boxing skills (and good jab) with punches aimed THROUGH Margacheato's rib cage and damaged face.... he stands a good chance to win. His stamina and psychological state are key, though.
Margo will end Cotto's career with this rematch. He has Cotto's number.
War Margarito!!!!
Cottos got a bigger mental hurdle to get over than Marg, other than that the playing field is more even this time around.
I think it goes the distance with Cotto with much more damage but gets the nod anyway.
i had the same thing in mind, Miguel might need to retire after this fight:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre
When mosley fought margarito, one thing that helped was that he tied margarito up often. Cotto should try to do that sometimes as well to take some pressure off.
Wasn't Margarito just saying he might not ever fight again because the eye? This to me looks like a setup fight for another Pac-Cotto(all 3 Arum fighters). I would not be surprised to see Margarito stopped because of the eye. Throw in Cotto's training with Steward the master of not taking chances, and Cotto either gets the eye stoppage or wins a decision. If he doesn't back himself into the ropes or a corner, he should win easily. He lost the first fight because he tried to fight with Margarito too much, if he does like he did to Mayorga and not fight inside then he greatly increases his chances.
For one, this fight just isn't that significant. Cotto and Margarito are on the slide. I'm not all that interested in it other than for the significance of Cotto exacting revenge.Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkinMargarito landed almost 250 power punches in that fight. Pacquiao landed a similar number & did a similar job on his face. I don't know about him not being a big puncher. Apart from early in his career when he was a teenager, he's stopped the majority. Post-fight he didn't behave in a way a man with loaded wraps would imo. Anyway I posted this in another thread, but it pretty much says why I feel he probably didn't in the Cotto fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyu
I came to it from the angle that people kept asking why he would do it for the first time against Mosley. I'll say that I don't believe it was the first time he or his team attempted it. However, the only occasion previously that I strongly believe he may have done it was the Lujan fight, as on that occasion there was horrific damage done by punches which he seemingly wasn't putting all his force into & at the end he was in no rush to take off those gloves & when he did was heavily surrounded at all times by his team.
Anyway back to the Mosley question. If that was the first time there were a number of reasons why that might be. He had apparently been partying plenty after beating Cotto & had had real trouble with the weight & was reportedly really struggling in sparring. Add to that, Mosley still had his iron chin (which I can almost pinpoint the moment it cracked but that's another thread). Capetillo is a boxing man & would've looked at all that & thought 'shit, there could be real problems here'. He would've looked at Mosley's reach & foreseen real issues getting him to break in the way they did Cotto. Cotto let's bear in mind had chin issues long before Margs & as high as everyone was on him, the second half of the Mosley fight showed he had issues with stamina & output. Those would be exactly the kind of issues that Margarito with his chin, workrate & stamina would be able to test. I think there would be in fact far more reason to load for Mosley given the surrounding factors than otherwise.
As I said, I believe he maybe did do it before that, but only on occasions where he could get away with it and/or really needed to. A smaller venue show like the Lujan one coming off the back of the Santos loss or on 'home' turf in Cali would seem to fit that more than in Las Vegas against the guy who at that point seemed to be groomed as Top Rank's new poster boy & was being lined up to fight De La Hoya with a win. We'll never know, but let's face it Cotto looked much the same after Pacquiao landed a similar number of punches on it. Although don't go thinking I'm an apologist. I believe Margarito & Capetillo should've been banned for life just like Resto & Lewis were.
Anyway back to the other points, yeah I meant Cotto being boring as a person, obviously not as a fighter & yeah Margarito is a grade A cunt, so he is brilliant at playing the baddie.
Jaz, I don't think we are too far apart because we agree that there is no way to know one way or the other when Margarito used cement. However, the difference in our opinions is that I don't give Margarito the benefit of the doubt in the Cotto fight and you do. I feel that because he was caught loading his gloves in the very next fight against a seemingly much easier opponent, it makes sense he would have used them for a tougher opponent. To me the important thing to remember is that the use of cement in the Mosley fight taints every single one of Margarito's fights, every single one. Even if he had a HOF career, which he doesn't, now he shouldn't be accepted because every single one of his victories is tainted. There is just no way to know when he did it in the past. All we know for sure is about the fight against Mosley and the fights after Mosley.
A couple things have struck me. After looking so good against Cotto in a fight where we can't be sure if he was fighting with cement or not, he looked so poor against Mosley when we know he didn't have the cement in his gloves. From looking world class to utter crap in one fight? At the very least, it is odd, isn't it? Certainly, styles make fights, but the difference is just very, very stark. Now, there is an argument that the wrapping thing before the Mosley fight took him out of his element, but it just could easily have been that mentally he didn't have the confidence he had against Cotto because he was aware that he didn't have the help of the cement. Also, consider the trajectory of Margarito's career since he's had to fight cement-free. He's lost one fight against the only other top fighter he's faced and he looked very flat against a journeyman. Consider the trajectory of Shane Mosley's career after beating Margarito. Was Shane that good to destroy someone who had looked so indestructible previously? Mosley's next three fights definitely don't speak to it. Coming off a monstrous win over Margarito, Mosley went on to look poor, almost shot.
Also, the fight against Mosley was huge so there was no reason to believe the scrutiny would be any different in that fight than it was in the Cotto or Cintron fights. Why would Capitillo think the Mosley fight required any extra illegal help, but the Cotto fight didn't warrant it? Recall that Cotto beat Mosley previously. Cotto was groomed as the Top Rank Poster Boy for a reason - he beat everybody. He had a high knockout percentage. Paul Williams beat Margarito. It makes that to keep Margarito's upward movement continuing, there was a lot of pressure to beat Cotto. That pressure could have been the reason why they would have used cement. The odds heavily favored Margarito prior to the fight with Mosley whereas in the Cotto fight, he was actually a slight underdog. Most pundits thought that Mosley was shot and thought it was a bad career move that he was getting in the ring with such a killer in Margarito. Why wouldn't Capatillo he confident that this was an easy tune-up fight before ODLH or PBF especially coming off a career-defining victory over Cotto even if he wasn't looking sharp in training. At that point, he was considered a beast of epic proportions. His doubt could stem from that fact that the win over Cotto wasn't a clean win.
To your point about Cotto's face looking just as bad after the Pacquiao fight, well, the response is that's because Margarito permanently destroyed Cotto's punch resistance. The better comparison is to look at whether Cotto's face had looked comparable prior to the Margarito fight. I don't remember seeing Cotto's face that torn up before the Margarito fight. For example, it wasn't close to as torn up after Cotto's fight with Shane Mosley. It's true that Cotto had stamina and chin issues, but his face never was as torn up as that. I'm not saying though that outward appearance is dispositive. It can be argued both ways.
Bottom line: Margarito's whole career is tainted because of that incident. He and Capatillo are cheats. I'm glad Pacquiao almost retired him.
I am just gutted that Margarito can box again and make hundred of thousand of dollars after he got caught hands in the ring with weapons in his knuckles.
On another note, I belive that Cotto with Steward in his corner has what it takes to beat Margarito, especially I am absolutely not convinced that the Pacman's steamroll didn't play an important toll on his body for good. I REALLY hope I am right on that one.
this is more of a personal bone to pick. i dont see the great significance on the division that these 2 war-torn stars are going at it again other than that it is a personal bone to pick. I dont think Cotto will be able to handle the pressure this time.
This will be a watered-down version of their 1st fight. Kinda like Foreman/Frazier II.
Margarito KO of Cotto after 5 boring rounds, then suddenly a 3-punch combo and its over.
Hmmmm...
Cotto weathered quite a bit of the storm against Pacquiao without giving up. Almost made it to the end.
He took a few tough shots off Mayorga and handled it pretty well.
And with the possibility that Margarito is not what he once was, meaning possibly less punch resistance, and the fact that maybe he had loaded gloves last time (???)
I think Cotto could see it to the end this time and probably even win it. Once again I will state that I think he should follow a bit of Mosley's example, and tie Margarito up on the inside.
I agree it does taint his whole career. Don't think I'm defending him, I believe he must have known & that he should have been banned from boxing. But there are differences & reasons he may have done it for Mosley. He'd been partying too much & was apparently getting battered in sparring. I also think that Capetillo would have seen that the styles weren't ideal for them. I was one of about 3 people on here who picked Mosley for that fight, because it was what he loves, a guy who moves in straight lines, is slow, doesn't move his head too much & doesn't have a jab. Cotto may have beaten Mosley (I thought it was very close & I think had it a draw), but he'd showcased that his stamina was suspect, his chin had been shown to be dodgy in fights at 140 & there was an argument that he would lose his nerve a bit if an opponent couldn't be bullied (I don't buy that, but I'd heard it from a few).Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
Margarito's behaviour post-fight also just doesn't chime with a man who knows his wraps ain't right. He was shaking everyone's hands & while he is dumb, I don't think he is that thick. I contrasted that with him after the fight with Lujan, where his gloves only came off with his whole team around him & then there was none of the shaking hands. I disagree about the three fights we know he was clean in. The 2 losses were to guys who are HoFers & arguably ATGs, who he was made for stylistically, while he never looked any good above 154 to me.
But we'll never know. All I can say is I 100% agree with your bottom line. I'd much rather never see him in a ring again & I certainly saw no redemption in Pacquiao beating the shit out of him. It didn't need Pacquiao to retire him, the Commissions should have done that & denied him $3m+.