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Simple poll, it will give a more true opinion of the Saddo community if only people vote on the poll who scored the fight properly round by round as the fight progressed. Thats how fights are scored by the judges ringside so thats how we should score it too.
I had it 118-110 Macklin, I only gave Sturm rounds 10 and 12 and I thought it was a disgusting decision. I want to know if my opinion is bakced up or refuted by the fans in the know.
It was a very close and competitive fight. 118-110 Macklin would certainly have been a disgusting decision imo. He fought well and outworked Sturm, especially early, but all the accurate and powerful shots came from Sturm and he finished well on top imo. I thought Macklin was really fading down the stretch although it was still very close as I felt Macklin had built up an early lead. But for me the superior fighter got the decision. He started slowly, but got into the fight as the rounds went on and he was blocking most of Macklin's output. I imagine the punch stats probably show Macklin throwing several hundred more but only landing the same as Sturm. Certainly Sturm landed all the eye catching stuff. He got the nod in his home town and I didn't see it as any more controversial than Froch-Dirrell, or Kessler-Froch. just a very close (and good) fight that went to the defending champion in his home country, the way close fights usually do.
i think people have a tendency to call any close decision in germany a robbery, just cause its in germany. Going to have to download the fight and watch it but sounds like most any round could have gone to either fighter so I don't know how you can have a robbery in a fight like that.
116-112 Sturm. Fight was competitive. Most rounds were close. Still thought it was clear-cut win for Sturm
The last couple rounds I thought Macklin was going to get knocked out. He may have built up lead by punching Sturms gloves and arms a lot but if you are scoring boxing and accurate punches landed, damage done etc it's hard to argue against a Sturm win imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
It was clearly going Sturm's way by the end of the 12th and so he deserved to keep his belt. Gallant effort from Macklin but I believe you have to take the title from the champion and as he was almost out on his feet by the end clearly he didn't do that. Good effort though.
Well said. Macklin was certainly the busier fighter. And he won some rounds by pretty much out working Felix. But pretty much all the best punches were landed by Sturm. I give Mack credit. He was game. He fought a good fight. Should leave the sport on this high note.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboThe last couple rounds I thought Macklin was going to get knocked out. He may have built up lead by punching Sturms gloves and arms a lot but if you are scoring boxing and accurate punches landed, damage done etc it's hard to argue against a Sturm win imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
It was clearly going Sturm's way by the end of the 12th and so he deserved to keep his belt. Gallant effort from Macklin but I believe you have to take the title from the champion and as he was almost out on his feet by the end clearly he didn't do that. Good effort though.
I had Macklin up, just.
I thought a draw was fair, didn't see it wide for Sturm at all.
another 2o seconds and i think Sturm would of had him out of there, Macklin fought his heart out tho and deserves credit
I gave it to Sturm by two rounds but a lot of the rounds were hard to score - Macklin had a higher work rate but looked like the more accurate and quality shots were coming from Sturm.
Could have argued for a decision either way with the rounds the way they were but I agree Macklin payed for a fast start and faded toward the end. No robbery for me just a close fight and an entertaining one too.
Totally agree, although Sturm never won it by 4 rounds tho - you have to do more to take the champs title wherever the fight is. Brings me on to Haye / VT - he's gonna have to knock him out methinks - can't wait!Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboThe last couple rounds I thought Macklin was going to get knocked out. He may have built up lead by punching Sturms gloves and arms aQuote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
lot but if you are scoring boxing and accurate punches landed, damage done etc it's hard to argue against a
Sturm win imo.
It was clearly going Sturm's way by the end of the 12th and so he deserved to keep his belt. Gallant
effort from Macklin but I believe you have to take the title from the champion and as he was almost out on his feet by the end clearly he didn't do that. Good effort though.
Looking at some polls from other forums, some with over 100 votes, all have Macklin the winner.
I reckon he would have won the fight anywhere but the other guys backyard. Just unlucky he was the away fighter. Great fight though. Well done Macklin.
Well i scored it 116-112 for Macklin...i agree sturm did land the more eye catching shots but macklin was the much busier fighter throughout the fight
job biscuit (macklin hopefully get another chance...for a galant effort)!!!
eh eh!!!
That's the most pathetic notion in boxing.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboThe last couple rounds I thought Macklin was going to get knocked out. He may have built up lead by punching Sturms gloves and arms a lot but if you are scoring boxing and accurate punches landed, damage done etc it's hard to argue against a Sturm win imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
It was clearly going Sturm's way by the end of the 12th and so he deserved to keep his belt. Gallant effort from Macklin but I believe you have to take the title from the champion and as he was almost out on his feet by the end clearly he didn't do that. Good effort though.
The champion doesn't get a head start. He fights under the exact same rules as the challenger. If you are naturally favouring the belt holder your scoring is clearly flawed/worthless.
And if you think Macklin was hitting just gloves and arms, checkout the left side of Sturms body. It was red raw after just a few rounds.
Yeah i've never understood that. It's like giving Barcelona a 1 goal head-start.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterThat's the most pathetic notion in boxing.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboThe last couple rounds I thought Macklin was going to get knocked out. He may have built up lead by punching Sturms gloves and arms a lot but if you are scoring boxing and accurate punches landed, damage done etc it's hard to argue against a Sturm win imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
It was clearly going Sturm's way by the end of the 12th and so he deserved to keep his belt. Gallant effort from Macklin but I believe you have to take the title from the champion and as he was almost out on his feet by the end clearly he didn't do that. Good effort though.
The champion doesn't get a head start. He fights under the exact same rules as the challenger. If you are naturally favouring the belt holder your scoring is clearly flawed/worthless.
I didnt think sturm won by 4rounds it was alot closer if not a macklin win imo, strum was lazy and dissapionting for all but the last few rounds, he looked like he cudnt be arsed! I think we all thought macklin stood little chance of a ko so it was gona be up to a high work rate which he achived, i agree strum threw more hurtful/powerful shots but bar the last round or so he didnt throw many, strum was very dissapointing if he'd of put the effort in like the last round he'd of probley got an early -mid fight ko,macklin was clearly up for it and did land alot of shots, probley more noticeable to the body, think mackin should hav got a draw at the very least, either way he did himself and britain proud!Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
Am I about the only one who seem to give it to macklin by two rounds!? Yea FS punching was eye-catching and it helped the fact it snapped back macklins head from time to time and it is true that in the latter rounds the tide had turned ! But and a BIG BUT..... Prior to this Matthew had pushed and pushed and applied the pressure whilst going forward throughout the first 6 rounds. Any success FS had after this apart from the last round was single punches and really not enough of them so I find 116-112 by two judges very hard to swallow. I like FS and agree he was robbed against Oscar earlier in his career so perhaps this was his tome but ultimately I feel this should of been a draw at best for him and that's being kind.
JC... I'm with you. Maybe not as wide as that as I'm taking everything into account... Home soil etc... But for me a macklin win for sure.
I watched and scored two fights yesterday, both of my winners lost.
Sturm vs Macklin
Alexander Vs Matthysse (Spelling)
I had Macklin winning and did a full rbr, In all honesty If I was a judge and had the benefit of instant replay I would have given it to Sturm, but in the run of play, Macklin straight up outworked Sturm for most of the fight. It was a result that pretty much everyone expected though right? Noone expected Macklin to get a decision in Germany. I was just happy with how the fight went, it was exciting and I'm really looking forward to a rematch. I'd like to see it in a neutral location like Tokyo. ;D
I just watched the fight and i thought it was a cracking fight, a candidate for FOTY. As for the scoring i had it 114-114 a classic draw, Matthew Macklin won most of the early rounds. Forcing Felix Sturm back and outworking him with some solid body and head shots.
But Felix Sturm comeback in the 2nd half of the fight, using his classic jab/right hand combo. Landing accurate head snapping shots, i thought it would be controversial being in Germany but it was actually very close and could of gone either way.
I don't literally mean that the champion should be judged differently from the challenger I'm simply being realistic regarding the subjective nature of scoring in boxing, and the influences put on the judges.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterThat's the most pathetic notion in boxing.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboThe last couple rounds I thought Macklin was going to get knocked out. He may have built up lead by punching Sturms gloves and arms a lot but if you are scoring boxing and accurate punches landed, damage done etc it's hard to argue against a Sturm win imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
It was clearly going Sturm's way by the end of the 12th and so he deserved to keep his belt. Gallant effort from Macklin but I believe you have to take the title from the champion and as he was almost out on his feet by the end clearly he didn't do that. Good effort though.
The champion doesn't get a head start. He fights under the exact same rules as the challenger. If you are naturally favouring the belt holder your scoring is clearly flawed/worthless.
And if you think Macklin was hitting just gloves and arms, checkout the left side of Sturms body. It was red raw after just a few rounds.
If you are going into a champions backyard, against both him and his fans you really have to prove yourself the better fighter to get the nod. That's just the way it is. Macklin for me didn't do that. Sure he started well and was up at the halfway stage you would have to imagine but he faded down the stretch as Sturm came on.
If you look at the fight under the following criteria I think Sturm deserved the win.
Accurate punching and boxing skills, Sturm
Most damaging shots, Sturm
Who was winning and would likely have won had the fight continued, Sturm
Now, scoring on a rbr Macklin "may" have won the fight, I didn't score rbr so can't comment. I felt Wtt's card of 114-114 apiece was about right. But looking at the flow of the fight and who "won" just by watching the overall flow of the fight I felt Sturm won it as he finished clearly on top and Macklin had very little left.
If he would have got the nod it would been a somewhat controversial win in my eyes as I felt Strum displayed the better boxing skills, was more accurate, and beat up his opponent by the end. On a rbr maybe Macklin won more rounds if I added them up (I cannot be botherd though) but I fwlt the better boxer and true winner got the decision.
Kind of like Matthyse's losses to Judah and Alexander but in reverse. For me he won both of those fights because he landed clearly the more hurtful shots and finished on top, looking like the boss, but rbr scoring led to him losing them both rather unjustly in my eyes.
Sturm's result went in his favour as he's the hometown fighter and champion for sure, but I think he deserved it and would favour him again in a rematch.
Vey close,hard to score fight.Think Macklin nicked by a round but it could have gone the other way.
Macklin threw and landed more but Sturms work was better and he seemed to be the stronger fighter in the last few rounds.I think if the fight lasted 20 seconds more Macklin would have been put down.
Great fight and I dont think anybody would say no to a rematch.;D
Personally I thought Sturms clean effective shots won it for him in the end. After 10 rounds I had it even with Sturm taking the last 2!
Sturm will, that was way out of his comfort zone.Quote:
Originally Posted by porkypara
I had Macklin winning 115-113 due to his incredible work-rate throughout the first seven rounds, of which I gave him six. After that his pace understandably slowed down and Sturm came on strong with increased moments of quality but I felt Macklin had done enough after a good ninth round. The final bell certainly came at the right time for Macklin who had put so much into the fight.
It's unbeliveable how two judges only gave him four rounds in the fight, but yet depressingly believable given the location. Given those scorecards I think it's fair to say that Macklin didn't stand a chance without the stoppage. He was never going to completely dominate Sturm for the full twelve rounds, which he seemingly required for a decision.
At least Macklin is receiving plenty of praise for his efforts and his worldwide reputation is today enhanced despite the loss. In an ideal world I would like to see an immediate rematch but I would advise him against going back to Germany. He would need a stoppage, unlikely as Sturm looked very durable and took Macklin's pressure without wilting. No doubt Sturm would reject a rematch at a neutral venue, so I hope Macklin looks for a different route to the top, with perhaps a rematch down the line.
Cracking fight, best I've seen so far this year. Shame about the outcome.
Just watched the fight and I feel like it was macklins to win in the 12th but he lost the round and I ended up having it a draw. It was a hard fight to score and I think that's why you have some having macklin winning it by a few points and some felix. Felix made this way harder for himself than it should have been, like he was asleep first few rounds and jab didn't start getting pumped till a few rounds in. If they rematch I'm going with clear felix victory like 8-4. I don't know what sdunek tells his fighters but they seem lazy first few rounds...
I though Macklin brought his A game while Sturm his C game. Overall Sturm's late rally got him a draw imo 114-114.
It still seems like a loss for Sturm though- no one would give him even a small chance against Martinez after seing this fight
Agreed it did feel like sturm wasn't there at his best, hence in a rematch id go with very clear felix win. Also while he looked less than stellar he's still the best opponent for martinez at the weight, felix is better than he showed. He's got a great jab when he uses it, and he's got fairly quick combos when he throws em. Martinez is awesome and strongly believe he'd win maybe even ko sturm late, but sturm would give him a decent fight for a while.Quote:
Originally Posted by gest12645
macklin had a great game plan which made it very hard to look good for sturnQuote:
Originally Posted by arminAgreed it did feel like sturm wasn't there at his best, hence in a rematch id go with very clear felix win. Also while he looked less than stellar he's still the best opponent for martinez at the weight, felix is better than he showed. He's got a great jab when he uses it, and he's got fairly quick combos when he throws em. Martinez is awesome and strongly believe he'd win maybe even ko sturm late, but sturm would give him a decent fight for a while.Quote:
Originally Posted by gest12645
i think the fight was hard to score because it was quality v volume
someone said earlier that macklin was hitting the arms and gloves, i dont agree with that, i think a lot of what he was doing was scoring
jim watt gave sturn one round where sturn only landed about 4 punches and macklin a lot more
i think macklin was 2 rounds up, and i agree with some, if the fight had of gone a couple more rounds i think sturn would have knocked him out
macklin won by clearly winning more rounds in a close fight , the best sturm could of hoped for was a home town biased draw . but instead we got a decision which does nothing to encourage boxers going to germany for a tittle fight against a german boxer
The champion doesn't always have home advantage or is the "house" fighter. However, like you've said, like I already said, the decision almost certainly went against Macklin because he was the away fighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboI don't literally mean that the champion should be judged differently from the challenger I'm simply being realistic regarding the subjective nature of scoring in boxing, and the influences put on the judges.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterThat's the most pathetic notion in boxing.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboThe last couple rounds I thought Macklin was going to get knocked out. He may have built up lead by punching Sturms gloves and arms a lot but if you are scoring boxing and accurate punches landed, damage done etc it's hard to argue against a Sturm win imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
It was clearly going Sturm's way by the end of the 12th and so he deserved to keep his belt. Gallant effort from Macklin but I believe you have to take the title from the champion and as he was almost out on his feet by the end clearly he didn't do that. Good effort though.
The champion doesn't get a head start. He fights under the exact same rules as the challenger. If you are naturally favouring the belt holder your scoring is clearly flawed/worthless.
And if you think Macklin was hitting just gloves and arms, checkout the left side of Sturms body. It was red raw after just a few rounds.
If you are going into a champions backyard, against both him and his fans you really have to prove yourself the better fighter to get the nod. That's just the way it is. Macklin for me didn't do that. Sure he started well and was up at the halfway stage you would have to imagine but he faded down the stretch as Sturm came on.
If you look at the fight under the following criteria I think Sturm deserved the win.
Accurate punching and boxing skills, Sturm
Most damaging shots, Sturm
Who was winning and would likely have won had the fight continued, Sturm
Now, scoring on a rbr Macklin "may" have won the fight, I didn't score rbr so can't comment. I felt Wtt's card of 114-114 apiece was about right. But looking at the flow of the fight and who "won" just by watching the overall flow of the fight I felt Sturm won it as he finished clearly on top and Macklin had very little left.
If he would have got the nod it would been a somewhat controversial win in my eyes as I felt Strum displayed the better boxing skills, was more accurate, and beat up his opponent by the end. On a rbr maybe Macklin won more rounds if I added them up (I cannot be botherd though) but I fwlt the better boxer and true winner got the decision.
Kind of like Matthyse's losses to Judah and Alexander but in reverse. For me he won both of those fights because he landed clearly the more hurtful shots and finished on top, looking like the boss, but rbr scoring led to him losing them both rather unjustly in my eyes.
Sturm's result went in his favour as he's the hometown fighter and champion for sure, but I think he deserved it and would favour him again in a rematch.
If the fight was promoted in England/Ireland, with 10,000 fans cheering Macklins constant movement forward and greater volume of punch, he probably would have won a wide UD. Even though it was a close fight.
I agree, but just because I don't like to agree with you, I disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterThe champion doesn't always have home advantage or is the "house" fighter. However, like you've said, like I already said, the decision almost certainly went against Macklin because he was the away fighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboI don't literally mean that the champion should be judged differently from the challenger I'm simply being realistic regarding the subjective nature of scoring in boxing, and the influences put on the judges.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterThat's the most pathetic notion in boxing.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboThe last couple rounds I thought Macklin was going to get knocked out. He may have built up lead by punching Sturms gloves and arms a lot but if you are scoring boxing and accurate punches landed, damage done etc it's hard to argue against a Sturm win imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
It was clearly going Sturm's way by the end of the 12th and so he deserved to keep his belt. Gallant effort from Macklin but I believe you have to take the title from the champion and as he was almost out on his feet by the end clearly he didn't do that. Good effort though.
The champion doesn't get a head start. He fights under the exact same rules as the challenger. If you are naturally favouring the belt holder your scoring is clearly flawed/worthless.
And if you think Macklin was hitting just gloves and arms, checkout the left side of Sturms body. It was red raw after just a few rounds.
If you are going into a champions backyard, against both him and his fans you really have to prove yourself the better fighter to get the nod. That's just the way it is. Macklin for me didn't do that. Sure he started well and was up at the halfway stage you would have to imagine but he faded down the stretch as Sturm came on.
If you look at the fight under the following criteria I think Sturm deserved the win.
Accurate punching and boxing skills, Sturm
Most damaging shots, Sturm
Who was winning and would likely have won had the fight continued, Sturm
Now, scoring on a rbr Macklin "may" have won the fight, I didn't score rbr so can't comment. I felt Wtt's card of 114-114 apiece was about right. But looking at the flow of the fight and who "won" just by watching the overall flow of the fight I felt Sturm won it as he finished clearly on top and Macklin had very little left.
If he would have got the nod it would been a somewhat controversial win in my eyes as I felt Strum displayed the better boxing skills, was more accurate, and beat up his opponent by the end. On a rbr maybe Macklin won more rounds if I added them up (I cannot be botherd though) but I fwlt the better boxer and true winner got the decision.
Kind of like Matthyse's losses to Judah and Alexander but in reverse. For me he won both of those fights because he landed clearly the more hurtful shots and finished on top, looking like the boss, but rbr scoring led to him losing them both rather unjustly in my eyes.
Sturm's result went in his favour as he's the hometown fighter and champion for sure, but I think he deserved it and would favour him again in a rematch.
If the fight was promoted in England/Ireland, with 10,000 fans cheering Macklins constant movement forward and greater volume of punch, he probably would have won a wide UD. Even though it was a close fight.
This sounds like Macklin worked hard and put the heat on Strum like he did with Jamie Moore with relentless pressure. Hopefully he can get a rematch as the crowd found the fight entertaining and it was a bit controversial. Hope Macklin gets the second shot and can fight a bit smarter this time and get the decision.
Got round to watching the Macklin fight again today as I had to see what all the fuss with Sturm was about since I scored it 10-2 Macklin 1st time. Was I just so impressed and surprised with Macklin that I viewed him favourably when I watched it live first time?
No. Had it 9-3 Macklin the on 2nd viewing. He won the fight plain and simple, I will never understand how anyone can think Sturm won this fight. If you cherry pick for Sturm I can see a 7-5 Macklin. The middle rounds were closer than I first thought, that was the only difference I noticed this time. Sturm only clearly wins 2 rounds (10 and 12) and there were 3 or 4 closeish ones other than those.
Sturm rallied late and came out his shell in the last 3 (althugh Macklin still wins the 11th). The first 9 rounds you have one guy slogging his guts out throwing a ton of punches constantly, connecting consistently, walking the other back completely controlling the ring and the pace of the fight always getting off first; while the other plods back with a high held guard and peaks out to throw a 1-2 counter or a jab every once in a while.
Macklin won the fight and Sturm knows it along with the entire country of Germany hence the immediate rematch offer.