What does nationalism have to do with boxing?

When I read the responses to Haye's disgraceful performance from so many of the Brits on this board, I am surprised to see how much nationalism plays a part in partisanship. If you objectively appreciate a fighter's skills and courage, why do you care where he was born? If a fighter lays down, even if he was born down the street from you, don't make excuses.

"Haye proved things", "Haye deserves a rematch". What are you talking about? Billy Conn-Joe Louis is an example of a great small man courageously trying to beat a great big man. This was a fiasco.

And another thing, men are bigger than we used to be; we need a legitimate 200-225 division.

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Originally Posted by Gocougars3

When I read the responses to Haye's disgraceful performance from so many of the Brits on this board, I am surprised to see how much nationalism plays a part in partisanship. If you objectively appreciate a fighter's skills and courage, why do you care where he was born? If a fighter lays down, even if he was born down the street from you, don't make excuses.

"Haye proved things", "Haye deserves a rematch". What are you talking about? Billy Conn-Joe Louis is an example of a great small man courageously trying to beat a great big man. This was a fiasco.

And another thing, men are bigger than we used to be; we need a legitimate 200-225 division.

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Have your first cool click. A newbie..... talking sense to some old veterans who should know better. And yeah.... the arguments tend to fall along nationalistic lines (with some notable exceptions). Hence the term "blind fan".

Seems some of those that said he was going to win aren't happy to concede anything and so the excuses come in. As a Brit I have no issues with saying Haye proved himself no better and probably worse than other Wlad opponents. Haye proved that he could dance and survive and he also proved that it has all been talk. I struggle to see a way back for him, his reputation which is built on 2 years of nonsense is shattered. Everyone is laughing at him.

Here is what a courageous small man against a great big man can be.

http://youtu.be/-FQFuLoVpQw

I agree with the OP.

I am British and I wanted Haye to lose. I didn't like him before the fight and I like him even less now. He was an embarrassment and should hang his head in shame after the way he's been behaving since beating Valuev. He had it coming and I'm glad he's been put in his place at last.

Makes no difference to me where a fighter is from, which is just as well because most British fighters are shit!;D

I like fighters who are exciting and get on with it like Tyson, Hagler, Hearns, Pac Man, Hatton, Nigel Benn back in the day etc etc etc.

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Originally Posted by tysonesque

I agree with the OP.

I am British and I wanted Haye to lose. I didn't like him before the fight and I like him even less now. He was an embarrassment and should hang his head in shame after the way he's been behaving since beating Valuev. He had it coming and I'm glad he's been put in his place at last.

Makes no difference to me where a fighter is from, which is just as well because most British fighters are shit!;D

I like fighters who are exciting and get on with it like Tyson, Hagler, Hearns, Pac Man, Hatton, Nigel Benn back in the day etc etc etc.

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You do realise you are actually disagreeing with his point here? :confused:

He's basically saying that British fans are blinded by their patriotic fervour for their fighters and so make excuses but you are proving the exact opposite.

It has nothing to do with nationalism. You are British and you thought Haye was a cunt too. As did I, and I'm another Brit.

So two Brits were both willing Wlad to knock out 'our' man.

Why do you agree with his post again? :-\

The original poster says he doesn't understand why British posters are backing Haye. Read it again.

"When I read the responses to Haye's disgraceful performance from so many of the Brits on this board, I am surprised to see how much nationalism plays a part in partisanship. If you objectively appreciate a fighter's skills and courage, why do you care where he was born? If a fighter lays down, even if he was born down the street from you, don't make excuses."

He says he's surprised how much nationalism plays a part in people supporting a fighter, such as Brits making excuses for Haye.

I agree with him because, although I am not one of them, there are a lot of Brits making excuses for Haye and supporting him for no other reason than because he is British.

What British posters are backing Haye? Most of us wanted to see him get knocked out.

It had nothing to do with nationalism.

Some people hate Wlad for his style, others hate Haye for his mouth.

Those were lines this fight was divided along.

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Originally Posted by Gocougars3

When I read the responses to Haye's disgraceful performance from so many of the Brits on this board, I am surprised to see how much nationalism plays a part in partisanship. If you objectively appreciate a fighter's skills and courage, why do you care where he was born? If a fighter lays down, even if he was born down the street from you, don't make excuses.

"Haye proved things", "Haye deserves a rematch". What are you talking about? Billy Conn-Joe Louis is an example of a great small man courageously trying to beat a great big man. This was a fiasco.

And another thing, men are bigger than we used to be; we need a legitimate 200-225 division.

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I objectively appreciate lots of fighters skills from different countries, but I will ALWAYS (unless it's Audley Harrison) want the British guy to win. That is Patriotism!!!
I am still objective about the skilss and chances of winning of British fighters though. E.g I have consistantly said I think Haye is shite for the past 8 years and I think his fights against Valuev and Wlad were absolute fooking poop!! I still wanted him to win though ;)

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

What British posters are backing Haye? Most of us wanted to see him get knocked out.

It had nothing to do with nationalism.

Some people hate Wlad for his style, others hate Haye for his mouth.

Those were lines this fight was divided along.

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Dunno about that one fella. Most Brits on here deffo wanted him to win and a lot thought he would. Silly Fuckas ;D

generalbulldog is the worst person on the forum for this.

He reads one person from the UK supporting a UK fighter then constantly refers to "bias countrymen" even though there'll be loads against the fighter. Hilarious. ;D

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Originally Posted by Fenster

generalbulldog is the worst person on the forum for this.

He reads one person from the UK supporting a UK fighter then constantly refers to "bias countrymen" even though there'll be loads against the fighter. Hilarious. ;D

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But didn't you want Haye to win? And how about hattonthehammer, hitmanhatton, Otley, Eric, hornfinger, adamgb, leftylee, tysonbruno, and probably a few others that I forgot pretty much wanted Haye to win right? Of course to be fair probably 1 or 2 didn't think Haye had what it takes, but nonetheless they still wanted their own countryman to beat Wlad is this not true? And a lot of Brits on here did say Haye would ko Wlad because of the weak chin. Fact.

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

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Originally Posted by Fenster

generalbulldog is the worst person on the forum for this.

He reads one person from the UK supporting a UK fighter then constantly refers to "bias countrymen" even though there'll be loads against the fighter. Hilarious. ;D

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But didn't you want Haye to win? And how about hattonthehammer, hitmanhatton, Otley, Eric, hornfinger, adamgb, leftylee, tysonbruno, and probably a few others that I forgot pretty much wanted Haye to win right? Of course to be fair probably 1 or 2 didn't think Haye had what it takes, but nonetheless they still wanted their own countryman to beat Wlad is this not true? And a lot of Brits on here did say Haye would ko Wlad because of the weak chin. Fact.

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How about Miles, Bilbo, Dark Lord Al, Big H, missy, boxingbantz, Fatsanman, tam seddon, etc.. plus all the others I can't remember. These guys weren't supporting Haye. Or certainly didn't give a him a chance of winning. There were plenty of non-Brits supporting Haye. So when you refer to his fans as his "countrymen" it is ridiculous.

You don't seem to be able to distinguish between fans and nationality.

Would you refer to Floyd Mayweather fans as his "countrymen?" Are they all American? Are all Bute fans Canadian? Pac fans Filipino?

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

But didn't you want Haye to win? And how about hattonthehammer, hitmanhatton, Otley, Eric, hornfinger, adamgb, leftylee, tysonbruno, and probably a few others that I forgot pretty much wanted Haye to win right?

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True, I wanted Haye to win, didnt expect him to mind and was amazed it went beyond three round. What I want to happen and wht I expect to happen are seldom the same thing.

I can only think of Audley Harrison as an exeption to the rule that says if a British guy is fighting someone from overseas I want them to win (expecting him to is another matter entirely), I dont care if the guys shit and the guy he's fghting is the second coming of SRR, I still want him to win. Anyone who sees it differently has something wrong with them as far as Im concerned.

British fans are an extremely loyal bunch. They travel with their fighters, support them almost no matter what they do and can make an arena a startlingly wonderful place to be.

The sport is lucky to have them.

Of course the price , in my experience, is often blinders so big they could make TJ Eckelburg blind.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

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Originally Posted by Fenster

generalbulldog is the worst person on the forum for this.

He reads one person from the UK supporting a UK fighter then constantly refers to "bias countrymen" even though there'll be loads against the fighter. Hilarious. ;D

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But didn't you want Haye to win? And how about hattonthehammer, hitmanhatton, Otley, Eric, hornfinger, adamgb, leftylee, tysonbruno, and probably a few others that I forgot pretty much wanted Haye to win right? Of course to be fair probably 1 or 2 didn't think Haye had what it takes, but nonetheless they still wanted their own countryman to beat Wlad is this not true? And a lot of Brits on here did say Haye would ko Wlad because of the weak chin. Fact.

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How about Miles, Bilbo, Dark Lord Al, Big H, missy, boxingbantz, Fatsanman, tam seddon, etc.. plus all the others I can't remember. These guys weren't supporting Haye. Or certainly didn't give a him a chance of winning. There were plenty of non-Brits supporting Haye. So when you refer to his fans as his "countrymen" it is ridiculous.

You don't seem to be able to distinguish between fans and nationality.

Would you refer to Floyd Mayweather fans as his "countrymen?" Are they all American? Are all Bute fans Canadian? Pac fans Filipino?

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Good post and I agree with the general gist.

NOTHING UNLESS YOURE NONaMERICAN. I THIN AMERICANS DONT GIVE A RATS ASS ABOUT IF EARNIE SHAVERS WAS FIGHTING FRANCESCO DAMIANI FOR EXMAPLE AND THEY WOULDNT REALLY THINK "OH EARNIE IS AMERICAN BUT DAMIANI IS ITALIAN SO I'LL ROUTE FOR THE AMERICAN"

I do not support a fighter because he is english, i support a fighter i respect.

i also cannotㄴ 녀ㅔㅔㅐㄳ ㅁ 랴홋ㄷㄱ support a fighter who hits behind the head, elbows to the throat, hits low........kidney shots i can tolerate.