Is Pongsaklek the Greatest of Thailand?
Thailand has a very strong all-time top ten.
The name you generally see at the top is Khaosai Galaxy, the barrel-chested bomber who somehow was able to make 115 and knocked everyone out.
From an accomplishment-point-of-view, hasn't current Flyweight Champion Pongsaklek Wongjonkam eclipsed him? One loss thrice avenged over 80 fights (15 yrs) and a decade-long run as a flyweight titleholder?
Pong lacks some big names on his resume that other standout Thai fighters have, like Chartchai Chionoi, Pone Kingpetch, and maybe even Sahaprom. Then again, he did beat a lot of challengers who later went on to snag "belts." He doesn't jump off the screen and captivate like Galaxy. But off of achievements, can you make a case for him being #1?
As an aside, which of these 3 Thai flyweights would you rank first: Kingpetch, Chionoi, or Chitalada?
Re: Is Pongsaklek the Greatest of Thailand?
I'd have Wonjonkam pretty close to the top, but I don't know if I'd have him quite at Galaxy's level. But maybe I should. Gotto look at that.
I put Chionoi first among those three for simply doing more over a longer period. Kingpetch did as much in 35 fights as just about anyone though didn't he? I think it is near criminal that guys like McGuigan and Mitchell and Norris are in the HOF when Chionoi and Kingpetch aren't.
Re: Is Pongsaklek the Greatest of Thailand?
He fought a guy this year who was 0-2-0, WTF is that? You have to ask yourself this question, how would Pong go against Jorge Arce at 112 or Vic Darchinyan? Arce was dynamite at 112 and Vic is probably one of the 3 biggest hitters at 112 ever? I doubt Pong would last 3 rounds with either of them. Pong hasn't fought anybody of note and has no credibility at all.
Re: Is Pongsaklek the Greatest of Thailand?
[QUOTE=THE THIRD MAN;990858]He fought a guy this year who was 0-2-0, WTF is that? You have to ask yourself this question, how would Pong go against Jorge Arce at 112 or Vic Darchinyan? Arce was dynamite at 112 and Vic is probably one of the the 3 biggest hitters at 112 ever? I doubt Pong would last 3 rounds with either of them. Pong hasn't fought anybody of note and has no credibility at all.[/QUOTE]
That's not remotely true. Wonjonkam has knocked off Daisuke Naito twice, Husein Husein, Keb Baas, Miranda and Komeda. Does it make him an ATG? Nope. But thoise guys are hardly nobodies.
Re: Is Pongsaklek the Greatest of Thailand?
[QUOTE=marbleheadmaui;990879]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE THIRD MAN
He fought a guy this year who was 0-2-0, WTF is that? You have to ask yourself this question, how would Pong go against Jorge Arce at 112 or Vic Darchinyan? Arce was dynamite at 112 and Vic is probably one of the the 3 biggest hitters at 112 ever? I doubt Pong would last 3 rounds with either of them. Pong hasn't fought anybody of note and has no credibility at all.[/QUOTE]
That's not remotely true. Wonjonkam has knocked off Daisuke Naito twice, Husein Husein, Keb Baas, Miranda and Komeda. Does it make him an ATG? Nope. But thoise guys are hardly nobodies.
Pong is on the nose with his resume.
Re: Is Pongsaklek the Greatest of Thailand?
Wow, great responses.
To the poster who pointed out Pong's tendency to fight neophytes in non-title tilts, that's a well-taken point. In addition, you point out that during most of his reign, there has always been another flyweight around with a reasonable dispute to the Thai's supremacy. Not exactly what you want from a #1 guy of a country with as rich a boxing tradition as Thailand. Then again, I could say Galaxy wasn't always the clear #1 115-pounder with Gilberto Roman around at the same time.
Marbleheadmaui, those are good points. I think Pong is one of those guys who would be a lot higher ranked if he did all this deep in the past. It's difficult to get hardcore fans like you onboard with a guy's resume without letting it ruminate for a while.
I understand your hesitance in putting Pong in Galaxy territory. He just doesn't seem as special. does he? Galaxy's greatness hit on a visceral level. With Pong, you gotta look at the big picture and then you're nudged to extend him some respect.
And Kingpetch sure did a lot with a 28-7 record. Unbelievable. While looking into Thai greats, I was also struck by Saensak, who was 14-6 and probably in this country's top ten. Another guy with a better resume than I thought was Khaosai's brother Kaokor, who beat Wilfredo Vazquez and top Korean Sung-Kil Moon.
Re: Is Pongsaklek the Greatest of Thailand?
PongsaShit is one of the worst so called "champions" of recent times. In the sense that he has steered clear away from REAL challenges...
When you have been ranked among the best since 2001 and the best you have fought is Naito, Bass, Miranda, Hussein & Komeda. Come on you mean to tell me that's the best that's been available in the division?
And for the record Arce was the "Interim" holder during PongsaShits reing. So it's not like he was the sole holder of the belt.
Aside from Zab I can't think of another boxer I've disliked more then PongsaShit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE THIRD MAN
He fought a guy this year who was 0-2-0, WTF is that? You have to ask yourself this question, how would Pong go against Jorge Arce at 112 or Vic Darchinyan? Arce was dynamite at 112 and Vic is probably one of the the 3 biggest hitters at 112 ever? I doubt Pong would last 3 rounds with either of them. Pong hasn't fought anybody of note and has no credibility at all.
Well said...
Re: Is Pongsaklek the Greatest of Thailand?
He's somewhere in between what Marble said & what Mick said. Some horrible defences, but it's not like he's fallen short when facing top guys. However, those dangerous defences (as in dangerous when your opponent has barely boxed before) may well hold against him when it comes to a HoF vote. There's a few other guys I'd like to see in before he gets considered.
Re: Is Pongsaklek the Greatest of Thailand?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CutMeMick
PongsaShit is one of the worst so called "champions" of recent times. In the sense that he has steered clear away from REAL challenges...When you have been ranked among the best since 2001 and the best you have fought is Naito, Bass, Miranda, Hussein & Komeda. Come on you mean to tell me that's the best that's been available in the division?
And for the record Arce was the "Interim" holder during PongsaShits reing. So it's not like he was the sole holder of the belt.
Aside from Zab I can't think of another boxer I've disliked more then PongsaShit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE THIRD MAN
He fought a guy this year who was 0-2-0, WTF is that? You have to ask yourself this question, how would Pong go against Jorge Arce at 112 or Vic Darchinyan? Arce was dynamite at 112 and Vic is probably one of the the 3 biggest hitters at 112 ever? I doubt Pong would last 3 rounds with either of them. Pong hasn't fought anybody of note and has no credibility at all.
Well said...
Nonsense. He isn't even the worst 112 champion of his own time. Look up Omar Narvaez sometime!
Re: Is Pongsaklek the Greatest of Thailand?
NO.... Galaxy is Thailand's greatest.
Re: Is Pongsaklek the Greatest of Thailand?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CutMeMick
PongsaShit is one of the worst so called "champions" of recent times. In the sense that he has steered clear away from REAL challenges...When you have been ranked among the best since 2001 and the best you have fought is Naito, Bass, Miranda, Hussein & Komeda. Come on you mean to tell me that's the best that's been available in the division?
And for the record Arce was the "Interim" holder during PongsaShits reing. So it's not like he was the sole holder of the belt.
Aside from Zab I can't think of another boxer I've disliked more then PongsaShit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE THIRD MAN
He fought a guy this year who was 0-2-0, WTF is that? You have to ask yourself this question, how would Pong go against Jorge Arce at 112 or Vic Darchinyan? Arce was dynamite at 112 and Vic is probably one of the the 3 biggest hitters at 112 ever? I doubt Pong would last 3 rounds with either of them. Pong hasn't fought anybody of note and has no credibility at all.
Well said...
Nonsense. He isn't even the worst 112 champion of his own time. Look up Omar Narvaez sometime!
Narvaez at least has the decency of fighting guys with better records.
I mean the caliber of opponents that PongsaShit fights is just mind blowing.
Guys with records like 0-2-0 for fucks sake!
Narvaez opponent in recent times with the worst record was 16-4-2 as he moved up in weight in 2010.
Give me a break Marble, that's comparing apples to oranges. It's clear as day light.
Both Narvaez & PongsaShit have yet to fight an opponent that gives them that little extra factor. But for my likings PongsaShit is the worst.
Also I will say that some credit is due to PongsaShit for taking on Sosa that's unless he finds a way to steer clear from him too.
By the way prediction for that fight Sosa via devastating KO.
Re: Is Pongsaklek the Greatest of Thailand?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CutMeMick
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CutMeMick
PongsaShit is one of the worst so called "champions" of recent times. In the sense that he has steered clear away from REAL challenges...When you have been ranked among the best since 2001 and the best you have fought is Naito, Bass, Miranda, Hussein & Komeda. Come on you mean to tell me that's the best that's been available in the division?
And for the record Arce was the "Interim" holder during PongsaShits reing. So it's not like he was the sole holder of the belt.
Aside from Zab I can't think of another boxer I've disliked more then PongsaShit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE THIRD MAN
He fought a guy this year who was 0-2-0, WTF is that? You have to ask yourself this question, how would Pong go against Jorge Arce at 112 or Vic Darchinyan? Arce was dynamite at 112 and Vic is probably one of the the 3 biggest hitters at 112 ever? I doubt Pong would last 3 rounds with either of them. Pong hasn't fought anybody of note and has no credibility at all.
Well said...
Nonsense. He isn't even the worst 112 champion of his own time. Look up Omar Narvaez sometime!
Narvaez at least has the decency of fighting guys with better records.
I mean the caliber of opponents that PongsaShit fights is just mind blowing.
Guys with records like 0-2-0 for fucks sake!
Narvaez opponent in recent times with the worst record was 16-4-2 as he moved up in weight in 2010.
Give me a break Marble, that's comparing apples to oranges. It's clear as day light.
Both Narvaez & PongsaShit have yet to fight an opponent that gives them that little extra factor. But for my likings PongsaShit is the worst.
Also I will say that some credit is due to PongsaShit for taking on Sosa that's unless he finds a way to steer clear from him too.
By the way prediction for that fight Sosa via devastating KO.
Records without context mean squat!
Narvaez has, IIRC, defeated TWO ranked guys. TWO! And Ponskaklek beat one of those guys as well.
Re: Is Pongsaklek the Greatest of Thailand?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE THIRD MAN
He fought a guy this year who was 0-2-0, WTF is that? You have to ask yourself this question, how would Pong go against Jorge Arce at 112 or Vic Darchinyan? Arce was dynamite at 112 and Vic is probably one of the the 3 biggest hitters at 112 ever? I doubt Pong would last 3 rounds with either of them. Pong hasn't fought anybody of note and has no credibility at all.
I would agree with you but those are just stay busy fights..He fights guys like that inbetween big name bouts to keep sharp,,,If you notice his belt is not on the line nor are those fights even publicized...Plus they are all guys from in or around Thailand he is highly revered there and it is actyually an honor just to be in with him....He does not count them towars his legacy......You also have to remember what division he is in...not much money nor top names to face so he hjas to eat as well
Re: Is Pongsaklek the Greatest of Thailand?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE THIRD MAN
He fought a guy this year who was 0-2-0, WTF is that? You have to ask yourself this question, how would Pong go against Jorge Arce at 112 or Vic Darchinyan? Arce was dynamite at 112 and Vic is probably one of the the 3 biggest hitters at 112 ever? I doubt Pong would last 3 rounds with either of them. Pong hasn't fought anybody of note and has no credibility at all.
I would agree with you but those are just stay busy fights..He fights guys like that inbetween big name bouts to keep sharp,,,If you notice his belt is not on the line nor are those fights even publicized...Plus they are all guys from in or around Thailand he is highly revered there and it is actyually an honor just to be in with him....He does not count them towars his legacy......You also have to remember what division he is in...not much money nor top names to face so he hjas to eat as well
Pong lives in and around an area that has plenty of 112 fighters from the Philippines, Japan and even Australia. If it's money he wants you can't tell me he couldn't organise a good fight with a Filipino in Manilla or Cebu, if he is having stay busy fights and they are in fact exhibitions he should clearly state that. I realise he is a drawcard in Thailand and he is probably doing tours, but at the end of the day it is difficult to rate a fighter who is fighting someone with a 0-2-0 record.
Re: Is Pongsaklek the Greatest of Thailand?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE THIRD MAN
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE THIRD MAN
He fought a guy this year who was 0-2-0, WTF is that? You have to ask yourself this question, how would Pong go against Jorge Arce at 112 or Vic Darchinyan? Arce was dynamite at 112 and Vic is probably one of the the 3 biggest hitters at 112 ever? I doubt Pong would last 3 rounds with either of them. Pong hasn't fought anybody of note and has no credibility at all.
I would agree with you but those are just stay busy fights..He fights guys like that inbetween big name bouts to keep sharp,,,If you notice his belt is not on the line nor are those fights even publicized...Plus they are all guys from in or around Thailand he is highly revered there and it is actyually an honor just to be in with him....He does not count them towars his legacy......You also have to remember what division he is in...not much money nor top names to face so he hjas to eat as well
Pong lives in and around an area that has plenty of 112 fighters from the Philippines, Japan and even Australia. If it's money he wants you can't tell me he couldn't organise a good fight with a Filipino in Manilla or Cebu, if he is having stay busy fights and they are in fact exhibitions he should clearly state that. I realise he is a drawcard in Thailand and he is probably doing tours, but at the end of the day it is difficult to rate a fighter who is fighting someone with a 0-2-0 record.
I am not saying those bouts should be counted as part of his ranking etc...Just saying reasons why those take place...He is not the only top rated fighter to ever do such things...Ever take a close look at the records of guys like JCC or SRR closely? Look at the records of some of their comp when they were champions or near prime.....Not puttong pong in same class but just he is not the only one to ever do such things is all
Re: Is Pongsaklek the Greatest of Thailand?
Stay busy fights or not it's utter shit to see that happen...
Again, look up Lito Sisneros and tell me it's just stay busy fights.
