someone explain that decision to me.
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someone explain that decision to me.
I believe this picture was taken of one of the judges after a meeting with Paul Williams' promotion team:
http://www.money-top10.com/Data/Site...20Affilate.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainanddew
Attachment 2143
That's twice tonight that Bilbo and I have essentially posted the same thing at the same time. That is very disturbing.
Seems like great minds and little minds can sometimes think alike :)Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
Max did his due diligence at the end of the broadcast. He went by press row and asked how guys scored it. He said they had it from 8-4 Lara to 10-2 Lara but people weren't seeing PW winning.
Then Max points out the absolute bullshit card PW got in PW/Martinez I, where a judge had Martinez winning 1 fucking round (which demonstrates that the judge was beyond biased).
That was a robbery. I missed the first 3 rounds. Lederman for HBO had it 3-0 Lara. Rafael at espn had it the same after 3 rounds. I scored only rounds 4-12 and I scored those 9 rounds 7-2 for Lara. His straight left was snapping PW's head and bloodying his face. I had Lara winning without even scoring the first 3 rounds. And he somehow loses.
I'm at least half lit and I think I scored this fight better than the official judges. My wife was asleep and even she knew it was a crap decision.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcollins
post of the week!
i think it was a bad decision.
i think lara won for sure...but i think this is one of those fights where if you watch it again with the sound off you'll see a closer fight.
i think the hbo douches were out of line talking about paul williams' career being over and his live being in danger during the fight.
i think they kept imagining all the carnage that would occur if the williams' of tonight were to be fighting against martinez. i think they sometimes forgot that he was fighting a lara not martinez.
what did they say during gatti/ward or barrera/morales etc...
Absolute robbery.
Yeah it was bad decision for sure. Williams is done going forward. But I agree the hbo people were going over board about how much damage Williams was taking and talking about years coming off his life. Jesus ive seen beatings plenty worse than that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CommunistKevin
Yep and Roy Jones has been on the receiving end of at least four of them.
Paul Williams is Al Haymon's boy.
That's pretty much it.
In a way I dislike this decision for Paul's sake. He's such a warrior. Not a smart fighter. Clueless trainer. But he's what's right about boxing in a sense and bad decisions almost always result in a backlash against the fighter who received that decision and Paul doesn't deserve that.
Right on the money.Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
That's absolutely true. I know that I, especially if there is a rematch, will be cheering against Paul Williams and hoping he loses in such a one-sided way that it makes robbery impossible or the scorecards moot. And that's not really fair because he's a great fighter with a great attitude (even if his post-fight interview pissed me off).Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
I watched this fight a second time just now on HBO. And honestly Lara didn't do himself any favors not stepping on the gas, he seemed in the late rounds like he was more or less coasting and throwing one or two left hands cause he could find Williams easy, but the rest of the round he let Paul hold him on the inside and throw punches. And I watch the pucnch stats and see that Williams threw in the 70s and Lara was throwing in the 20s or sometimes 30s. And honestly he didn't do himself any favors letting Williams throw 10 shots whenever they were in close. He'd land the one hard left hand, coast around the outside not doing much till he threw the left again or he'd let Paul get close and work on the inside. Regardless on the bad decision, he didn't do himself any favors by not stepping on the gas and letting Paul get off on on him. I'd like to see a rematch, part of me does part of me doesn't. Part of me says Williams can do better than he did tonight, but then again a part of me says he'll never do better as long as he has his trainer or that this may be all he has left to offer. So I'll have to see him one more time before I decide, but Paul won't have any longevity in the sport if he keeps giving up his height. if he threw the same combinations like he can on the outside he'd last a lot longer in the sport.
OMG, what the fuck is this robbing foreign fighters all the time now?
every damn time a great foreign fighter comes forth with heart skill and courage, they get robbed by american corruption and the networks "golden boy" of the month.
Lara fought a good smart fight and should get the credit he deserves. williams face was hamburger. and im a williams fan!!!
kotelnik, maidana, mathysses & now lara.
Network Corruption is BULLFUCKINGSHIT!!!!!
i enjoy seeing these fighter with heart kick ass, but they should not be treated like this, it's sooooo morally wrong its not funny.
can anything be done??? seriously...
THIS is the problem with the overuse of the word "robbery." it is when a fight like this happens, that really IS one? The term no longer has the same impact.
I had it a lot closer than the HBO team. I had it 7-5 Lara. But I had no round marked close that didn't go to Williams.
People who cried robbery in the Matthysse, Maidana and Kotelnik fights are part of the problem. Those were close fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by #1FightFan
Now when a fight is literally stolen, like tonight? People dismiss it because they've heard the term "robbery" far too often.
Have not seen the fight but a lot of people over did it on the Alexander fight that was a close one. I wait to watch before i say anything but people on the board seem to think close fight equals a robbery now.
Completely agree. I'll be interested if you think this was competitive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
What 'people'?Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiPeople who cried robbery in the Matthysse, Maidana and Kotelnik fights are part of the problem. Those were close fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by #1FightFan
Now when a fight is literally stolen, like tonight? People dismiss it because they've heard the term "robbery" far too often.
Are you delusional ???
Well the poster I quoted for one, folks from various forumns I visit after fights to see what is being written.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel BoogustusWhat 'people'?Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiPeople who cried robbery in the Matthysse, Maidana and Kotelnik fights are part of the problem. Those were close fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by #1FightFan
Now when a fight is literally stolen, like tonight? People dismiss it because they've heard the term "robbery" far too often.
Are you delusional ???
I don't think I'm delusional...but I could be. After all I think you're a worthwhile poster ;)
I am quite disappointed by the decision and I would really love to have been ring side to understand what the judges did see. Corruption is a possibility but sometimes I wonder if throwing a huge volume of punches might help more than what we think into getting the judges favor.
Listening to Williams at the end of the fight, I don't he was convinced he won that fight. Maybe he thought it was close?
you are right:)Quote:
Originally Posted by fan johnny
Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
Right on the money. Robberies always garner hatred towards the benefactor (and sympathy for the loser) like he had something to do with it. Paul is a true warrior and had been great for boxing, it's a shame to see him get tarnished like this, especially after such a brutal loss.
I had it 9-3 for Lara. I can see slightly closer scores, but in no way can I see how Williams won that fight. Max Kellerman put it well when he said it was indescribably bad. Just awful.
DEAR DEAR ME. I've never been so baffled after a fight when the decision got called. Almost just as baffling was Williams believing he won after in the interview.
I really like Williams, but Lara fought fantastic.
I had it 10-2 for Lara. He completely outboxed Williams and countered him all night over the top with the left hand. Lara's footwork was tremendous !
It was good to see Max tell the truth about that horrible decision. But, it wasn't incompetence or stupidity that caused that decision.
It was clearly CORRUPTION.
Wow i must catch up on this, so Paul Williams got gift decision ? getting a bit tired of these type of decision's i mean Devon Alexander should have 3 losses.
Often I guess that's the case. What was unusual here is that sheer visibility of the Lara punches. Williams head was being hurtled all over the place. I don't think things could have been more clear on his side.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nameless
First true robbery I've seen in a couple of years.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
I'm waiting for the 3:30 replay as I only caught the last half last night. Physically and as far as body language Williams looked like that piñata getting hit repeatedly with the whiffle ball bat by that kid in the Geiko commercial.
I'm also wishing more and more we could return to the days on maybe 1 or 2 guys only on the fight call. Way to many talking heads wagging their tongues just to be heard. I'd be GREAT if only the crowd could be heard.
There's a few things at play here. First of all, most of you (like me) didn't even start watching Williams-Lara until about round 4. Not sure how much I can cry about a decision where I missed a quarter of the fight.
And there was that little voice inside me during the mid-rounds where it seemed Lara was coasting. His left hands were so clear, the announcing team fearing for PW's life, meanwhile--I thought Williams snuck in a few of those rounds amidst all the hoopla going against him. But I remember thinking "Lara's giving them a chance to screw him by laying back."
With that said, I struggle to find more than a small handful of rounds where Williams' proletariat offerings usurped the clean punching of Lara. Giving Williams 116 points is criminal.
Is it robbery? I dunno. But when the big-name guy wins like this, it raises my BS alert meter. It's like the big-name guy wins if you can even make the most remote case that he won. There's too much burden of the proof on the unsung fighter. You shouldn't have to whitewash a guy to get a W. And having the cards so heavily stacked in the favor of house fighters is plain wrong, just from a sporting point of view.
The fact that supposedly objective arbiters EXCLUSIVELY give the benefit of the doubt to the house fighter, the bigger name guy, the more ballyhooed prospect has to be bullshit. It just doesn't accidentally shake out that way 100% of the time. If I saw the unsung foreigner get a break once in a while, I wouldn't complain. Or if they gave the 2-12-2 pug the decision he deserves against the 7-0 prospect one out of 1000 times, I'd be cool with it.
But when judges are in apparent lock-step with the wishes of promoters and managers, it begins to stink. ANd that's what was at play last night.
Ah, it feels like just like week I was watching an HBO boxing card in which a lesser known prospect was robbed on the score cards for a more prominent name, which happened to be coming off a loss. Oh, wait... :o
So Lara has to score a shutout going off tonight? Or stop him, which certainly looked a possibility. I know people jump on the HBO guys, but I really don't think they were wrong about the scoring or damage. Probably about the dangers to P-Will's life (pot kettle black Roy??), which I felt he'd somehow make it through, but it was so one-sided it was mad. I had it 10-2 & neither rounds I gave to Williams were ones I thought were definitely his. Definitely my robbery of the year (did you ever post the results last year CFH you useless liberal bastard?).Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
I completely agree with this. I'm also wondering what fight Maidana was robbed in :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui
I thought Matthysse won against Judah & lost to Alexander & Kotelnik just nicked it in St. Louis. However, I could see all of those going to the eventual winner & in one case I clearly did.
Tonight was a flat out disgrace & I can't believe there is no more anger over this. It's been a while since I heard the scorecards & genuinely believed for a short while that the announcer has accidentally read out the wrong guy.
Sorry but how the fuck did you have Matthysse WINNING against Judah and LOSING to Alexander ?Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkinI completely agree with this. I'm also wondering what fight Maidana was robbed in :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui
I thought Matthysse won against Judah & lost to Alexander & Kotelnik just nicked it in St. Louis. However, I could see all of those going to the eventual winner & in one case I clearly did.
Tonight was a flat out disgrace & I can't believe there is no more anger over this. It's been a while since I heard the scorecards & genuinely believed for a short while that the announcer has accidentally read out the wrong guy.
He put on a much more impressive performance against Alexander than he did against Judah.
And in my opinion if a fight is close in rounds, but still a CLEAR victory for one fighter and he doesn't get the decision, then its still a robbery.
If a guy clearly wins 7 rounds and there is no doubt about it, no bickering over those 7, and the judges end up giving it to the other guy, especially with a knockdown involved, then that is still a robbery.
Check out that thread & you can read my scorecard :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by HulkSorry but how the fuck did you have Matthysse WINNING against Judah and LOSING to Alexander ?Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkinI completely agree with this. I'm also wondering what fight Maidana was robbed in :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui
I thought Matthysse won against Judah & lost to Alexander & Kotelnik just nicked it in St. Louis. However, I could see all of those going to the eventual winner & in one case I clearly did.
Tonight was a flat out disgrace & I can't believe there is no more anger over this. It's been a while since I heard the scorecards & genuinely believed for a short while that the announcer has accidentally read out the wrong guy.
He put on a much more impressive performance against Alexander than he did against Judah.
And in my opinion if a fight is close in rounds, but still a CLEAR victory for one fighter and he doesn't get the decision, then its still a robbery.
If a guy clearly wins 7 rounds and there is no doubt about it, no bickering over those 7, and the judges end up giving it to the other guy, especially with a knockdown involved, then that is still a robbery.
Maybe you felt he was more impressive against Alexander, but I felt they were similar performances (Matthysse not doing enough to quite take rounds for me early & mid) & in the Judah fight, he had two extra rounds to play with, which allowed him to pull out the win for me.
All those fights mentioned had enough close rounds that it could be disputed. I know that you're one of those who sees robberies every week, so you obviously won't agree with it ;D
*Having slept, I came back to this & I will say I agree that if one fighter CLEARLY wins 7 rounds it's a robbery. However, in all those cases mentioned, I think that their were disputable rounds. A fight that I remember thinking one guy clearly won 7 rounds was the first Funeka-Guzman fight.