The "12th Round Syndrome"
Boxing suffers and has always suffered from this syndrome. It's annoying, exasperating, and one of those things for which the boxing gurus of the world should put their minds together and find a viable solution. It's as bad for boxing as shitty decisions and lousy refereeing.
I'm talking about the "all-too-frequent" habit some fighters have of coasting or sleepwalking through an entire fight, only to come out like gangbusters in the final round and try for the KO or somehow turn around a fight that's already a lost cause. Some fighters, clearly losing a fight, do little or nothing in the middle rounds to turn the tide. Then magically, the 12th round bell sounds and it's a new fighter out there. If only he'd have more than 3 minutes, surely he can get that miraculous KO or somehow turn the tide. They might even dominate the final 3 minutes, which is all the more exasperating because the fan is left thinking: "Where the hell was THAT during the previous 11 rounds?!?!?" And when the decision favors the fighter that had dominated the entire fight, the clueless loser complains. He thinks his "too little too late" heroics should earn him the decision he so methodically threw away in all the previous rounds. This happens WAY too often.
I don't pretend to have a solution here. I'm just voicing something I'm sure crosses the minds of a LOT of fans, who have been just as frustrated as I've been at this syndrome. And hey... I'm sure the counter-arguments will run something like: "It's easier said than done... you have to be in the shoes of the fighter to know what's going on... it's easy to criticize from the safety and comfort of your living room... etc, etc." But the fact remains: If you had it in you for the last round, you should have brought it out BEFORE then. Three minutes is hardly time to turn around a lost cause of a fight.
Meanwhile, I'll just start watching 12th rounds.
:-\ ;D
Re: The "12th Round Syndrome"
Let me try another way of looking at it. 12th round syndrome is one of boxing's great gifts to the fans.
In most every other sport? Once one gets far behind, it really is over. Down 28-0 in the second half to a good football (the one where you use your whole body) team? Game is over.
Down 3-0 to a good football (the one where one doesn't use the whole body) team? The game is over.
Behind by five yards with ten yards to go in the 100? No shot.
But in boxing? The whole past can be erased with a single punch, a single flurry, a little luck, a single mistake. It really is not over until it is over.
Anybody buying that?
Re: The "12th Round Syndrome"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gallegos Boxing Gym
It is a bizarre thing. And totally mental.
Something about the light at the end of the tunnel that energizes people. In the middle of a fight, that same risk-taking you see in the 12th round is more daunting. In the 12th, a fighter knows he only has to soldier through 3 minutes. He doesn't do it before because he's scared. It has to stem from insecurity, not wanting to be in a fight where he is fighting dead-tired or hurt.
Fighters coming on like gangbusters in the final round is an act of pseudo-bravery. It only serves to highlight the lily-livered approach of the previous 11 rounds. It's a face-saving act, to leave a good impression and show they are good fighters, just ones who didn't have the wherewithal to do that for the whole fight.
It's all tied in with the light at the end of the tunnel theory, the "leave a final good impression" code, and the childish need to cover up whatever mess you made.
Very well put.
:)
Re: The "12th Round Syndrome"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Let me try another way of looking at it. 12th round syndrome is one of boxing's great gifts to the fans.
In most every other sport? Once one gets far behind, it really is over. Down 28-0 in the second half to a good football (the one where you use your whole body) team? Game is over.
Down 3-0 to a good football (the one where one doesn't use the whole body) team? The game is over.
Behind by five yards with ten yards to go in the 100? No shot.
But in boxing? The whole past can be erased with a single punch, a single flurry, a little luck, a single mistake. It really is not over until it is over.
Anybody buying that?
Nice try, and good comparisons. However, football (the contact kind) HAS had it's share of miraculous comebacks. And yeah, if the margin is too great, the last few minutes of the game are boring. But that doesn't mean that all of a sudden the losing team starts making plays they weren't making before. Well... let me take that back. The defense might go into a "prevent" mode, in which case the offense can make tons of yardage. But no matter. ;D
Point is.... why wait until the final three minutes to do something you could've (and should've) been doing the whole fight long? Are judges (and fans) supposed to be THAT gullible?
Re: The "12th Round Syndrome"
you're not sure how much you've got left to give till you get there. ;)
Evil training thing a coach used to do. Tell you it was your last round on the bags, sparring etc. So people had that final push! Only to be told 'one more'! Surprising how much extra you can bring.
Re: The "12th Round Syndrome"
I blame the fighter and the trainer in many fights. I want a trainer to show urgency by the middle rounds. I want the trainer to tell his fighter he needs a KO by the 10th round if that is likely the case. Get on him to leave it out there. Too often you watch a fight and the trainer is acting like the fight is even when everyone knows a decision is out of the question (unless you are PW).
Re: The "12th Round Syndrome"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Howlin Mad Missy
you're not sure how much you've got left to give till you get there. ;)
Evil training thing a coach used to do. Tell you it was your last round on the bags, sparring etc. So people had that final push! Only to be told 'one more'! Surprising how much extra you can bring.
You might be on to something here. ;D
Naww, just kidding... I know this technique wouldn't fly in real fights (not that I wouldn't want to try it). But what other radical measure could be taken to force the fighters not to wait until the 12th round to actually fight? Maybe bring back the failed "live scoring", where the fighters know the score at key points during the fight. I know it didn't work then, but maybe with some sort of twist. Ah, what the hell.
Just saying...
Re: The "12th Round Syndrome"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Howlin Mad Missy
you're not sure how much you've got left to give till you get there. ;)
Evil training thing a coach used to do. Tell you it was your last round on the bags, sparring etc. So people had that final push! Only to be told 'one more'! Surprising how much extra you can bring.
You might be on to something here. ;D
Naww, just kidding... I know this technique wouldn't fly in real fights (not that I wouldn't want to try it). But what other radical measure could be taken to force the fighters not to wait until the 12th round to actually fight? Maybe bring back the failed "live scoring", where the fighters know the score at key points during the fight. I know it didn't work then, but maybe with some sort of twist. Ah, what the hell.
Just saying...
Open scoring is always a terrible idea if you want more action. The fighter who is ahead gets on his bike and a guy doing that is almost impossible to be effective against.
Want a radical solution? Make each succeeding round more valuable in terms of points. That makes the fighter always look ahead to winning the next round because he can cut a gap drastically.
Re: The "12th Round Syndrome"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Let me try another way of looking at it. 12th round syndrome is one of boxing's great gifts to the fans.
In most every other sport? Once one gets far behind, it really is over. Down 28-0 in the second half to a good football (the one where you use your whole body) team? Game is over.
Down 3-0 to a good football (the one where one doesn't use the whole body) team? The game is over.
Behind by five yards with ten yards to go in the 100? No shot.
But in boxing? The whole past can be erased with a single punch, a single flurry, a little luck, a single mistake. It really is not over until it is over.
Anybody buying that?
Nice try, and good comparisons. However, football (the contact kind) HAS had it's share of miraculous comebacks. And yeah, if the margin is too great, the last few minutes of the game are boring. But that doesn't mean that all of a sudden the losing team starts making plays they weren't making before. Well... let me take that back. The defense might go into a "prevent" mode, in which case the offense can make tons of yardage. But no matter. ;D
Point is.... why wait until the final three minutes to do something you could've (and should've) been doing the whole fight long? Are judges (and fans) supposed to be THAT gullible?
I didn't think anybody'd buy it ;)
Re: The "12th Round Syndrome"
I kinda love it and hate it. They're not all the same.
You often see particularly tactical battles ending with both guys basically purging all their energy in the 12th, which I don't mind (infact I quite like) but there are some fights where it goes way beyond tactical and the fighter(s) are just plain cautious and so then it just appears that suddenly a degree (very rarely most) of that caution is lost for the final 3 minutes. Which definitely sucks because indeed as TitoFan said ''If you had it in you for the last round, you should have brought it out BEFORE then''
Of course then there are the real-deal big 12-rounders where fighters literally FIND the energy after an exhausting and gruelling battle.
Re: The "12th Round Syndrome"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Howlin Mad Missy
you're not sure how much you've got left to give till you get there. ;)
Evil training thing a coach used to do. Tell you it was your last round on the bags, sparring etc. So people had that final push! Only to be told 'one more'! Surprising how much extra you can bring.
You might be on to something here. ;D
Naww, just kidding... I know this technique wouldn't fly in real fights (not that I wouldn't want to try it). But what other radical measure could be taken to force the fighters not to wait until the 12th round to actually fight? Maybe bring back the failed "live scoring", where the fighters know the score at key points during the fight. I know it didn't work then, but maybe with some sort of twist. Ah, what the hell.
Just saying...
Open scoring is always a terrible idea if you want more action. The fighter who is ahead gets on his bike and a guy doing that is almost impossible to be effective against.
Want a radical solution? Make each succeeding round more valuable in terms of points. That makes the fighter always look ahead to winning the next round because he can cut a gap drastically.
Now THAT'S the spirit. ;D
Great ideas often come from thinking outside the box. It may or may not work, but wouldn't it be worth a try? The assignment of points per round would probably have to be tweaked a little bit here and there.... but the intent is good.
Re: The "12th Round Syndrome"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jimanuel Boogustus
I kinda love it and hate it. They're not all the same.
You often see particularly tactical battles ending with both guys basically purging all their energy in the 12th, which I don't mind (infact I quite like) but there are some fights where it goes way beyond tactical and the fighter(s) are just plain cautious and so then it just appears that suddenly a degree (very rarely most) of that caution is lost for the final 3 minutes. Which definitely sucks because indeed as TitoFan said ''If you had it in you for the last round, you should have brought it out BEFORE then''
Of course then there are the real-deal big 12-rounders where fighters literally FIND the energy after an exhausting and gruelling battle.
Holmes-Norton comes to mind.
:)
Re: The "12th Round Syndrome"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Howlin Mad Missy
you're not sure how much you've got left to give till you get there. ;)
Evil training thing a coach used to do. Tell you it was your last round on the bags, sparring etc. So people had that final push! Only to be told 'one more'! Surprising how much extra you can bring.
You might be on to something here. ;D
Naww, just kidding... I know this technique wouldn't fly in real fights (not that I wouldn't want to try it). But what other radical measure could be taken to force the fighters not to wait until the 12th round to actually fight? Maybe bring back the failed "live scoring", where the fighters know the score at key points during the fight. I know it didn't work then, but maybe with some sort of twist. Ah, what the hell.
Just saying...
Open scoring is always a terrible idea if you want more action. The fighter who is ahead gets on his bike and a guy doing that is almost impossible to be effective against.
Want a radical solution? Make each succeeding round more valuable in terms of points. That makes the fighter always look ahead to winning the next round because he can cut a gap drastically.
Now THAT'S the spirit. ;D
Great ideas often come from thinking outside the box. It may or may not work, but wouldn't it be worth a try? The assignment of points per round would probably have to be tweaked a little bit here and there.... but the intent is good.
OK here's an even more strange one. Roll dice or spin a wheel between rounds to determine how many points the next round is worth? Wheel of Fortune Boxing? Then a fighter has NO WAY to calculate just how far ahead or behind he really is. Of course it also runs the risk of low point rounds being stinkers and the last round not being valuable enough to have a guy behind win by decision...though I guess that is no worse than where we often are now.
Re: The "12th Round Syndrome"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Let me try another way of looking at it. 12th round syndrome is one of boxing's great gifts to the fans.
In most every other sport? Once one gets far behind, it really is over. Down 28-0 in the second half to a good football (the one where you use your whole body) team? Game is over.
Down 3-0 to a good football (the one where one doesn't use the whole body) team? The game is over.
Behind by five yards with ten yards to go in the 100? No shot.
But in boxing? The whole past can be erased with a single punch, a single flurry, a little luck, a single mistake. It really is not over until it is over.
Anybody buying that?
Mike Weaver is buying it! With less than a minute to go in a fight that was close to a shut out he nails John Tate with a left hook in the 15th round. Now why did it take him all that time to get active and actually throw some punches?
Re: The "12th Round Syndrome"
[QUOTE=THE THIRD MAN;991992]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Let me try another way of looking at it. 12th round syndrome is one of boxing's great gifts to the fans.
In most every other sport? Once one gets far behind, it really is over. Down 28-0 in the second half to a good football (the one where you use your whole body) team? Game is over.
Down 3-0 to a good football (the one where one doesn't use the whole body) team? The game is over.
Behind by five yards with ten yards to go in the 100? No shot.
But in boxing? The whole past can be erased with a single punch, a single flurry, a little luck, a single mistake. It really is not over until it is over.
Anybody buying that?
Quote:
Mike Weaver is buying it! With less than a minute to go in a fight that was close to a shut out he nails John Tate with a left hook in the 15th round. Now why did it take him all that time to get active and actually throw some punches?
LOL, I watched that one as it happened with my Dad. To be fair to Mike I'm pretty sure he hurt Tate in the 11th or 12th didn't he?
Maybe Mike's muscles were getting in the way ;)
Re: The "12th Round Syndrome"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE THIRD MAN
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Let me try another way of looking at it. 12th round syndrome is one of boxing's great gifts to the fans.
In most every other sport? Once one gets far behind, it really is over. Down 28-0 in the second half to a good football (the one where you use your whole body) team? Game is over.
Down 3-0 to a good football (the one where one doesn't use the whole body) team? The game is over.
Behind by five yards with ten yards to go in the 100? No shot.
But in boxing? The whole past can be erased with a single punch, a single flurry, a little luck, a single mistake. It really is not over until it is over.
Anybody buying that?
Mike Weaver is buying it! With less than a minute to go in a fight that was close to a shut out he nails John Tate with a left hook in the 15th round. Now why did it take him all that time to get active and actually throw some punches?
But see... I don't put Mike Weaver into the "12th round syndrome" (in this case, 15 rounds) category. Yes, it was a shutout... but Mike was with his back to the ropes and threw one very lucky left hook that landed on the button. Mike didn't come out with a mysterious burst of energy in the 15th round and overwhelm Tate. Tate was still working Mike over on the ropes when Mike unleashed that miraculous left hook. Big difference there.
Re: The "12th Round Syndrome"
doesnt it just mirror human nature in normal life, i know i purposley will leave anything i have to do till the last minute knowing i have plenty of time left only to then have to bust my balls at the last minute to get it done
its easier to be hesitant or negative when you know you have time left to change it
once the 12th and there are no more rounds left ...a sense of urgency kicks in
Re: The "12th Round Syndrome"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Howlin Mad Missy
you're not sure how much you've got left to give till you get there. ;)
Evil training thing a coach used to do. Tell you it was your last round on the bags, sparring etc. So people had that final push! Only to be told 'one more'! Surprising how much extra you can bring.
You might be on to something here. ;D
Naww, just kidding... I know this technique wouldn't fly in real fights (not that I wouldn't want to try it). But what other radical measure could be taken to force the fighters not to wait until the 12th round to actually fight? Maybe bring back the failed "live scoring", where the fighters know the score at key points during the fight. I know it didn't work then, but maybe with some sort of twist. Ah, what the hell.
Just saying...
If you're expecting to work for a certain length of time you pace it even if you think you're working flat out ;) hence there is often more left in the tank than you think = you need a ko in the last round = guy comes out swinging
