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I know this fight is old but I went back and looked at this for some reason and I gotta say that I genuinely thought that Joe Cortez was horrible. So my question to the forum is what was the perception of this fight when it occured and was there any backlash about Cortez's performance
Ray Hatton could've been ref and Ricky would still have lost, but Cortez did have a hig affect on thr fight imo. It was almost as if he has watched Hatton vs Tszyu and decided that he would dictate how Ricky could fight against PBF. He was over fussy and should've let the action go. It was a boxing match, not a tickling contest afterall.Quote:
Originally Posted by chinchekked
Had somebody like Mickey Vann been Ref then Hatton might have been able to wrestle enough to survive till the 12th... but I don't think he's near winning still.
This is of course assuming that Ricky hatton also stays with Frank Warren so that Vann can be Ricky's best mate in the ring again.
One word "questionable"
i thought it was a terrible terrible display from cortez.
Cortez ruined that fight for everyone
Ricky Hatton didn't get to make the most of his shot
Floyd Mayweather didn't get to have his hand raised by an inpartial ref which marred his victory IMO
The fans who'd spent a lot of money and were really looking forward to it had their entertainment ruined.
Hatton was in for 6 rounds but he blew it himself, lost his composure.
Let me start by saying that I was a fan of Hatton and I was hoping he would beat Mayweather.
This will probably be an unpopular opinion on here, but so what...
Ricky Hatton's reputation dictated the way that fight was called. Since he beat Tszyu and burst onto the international boxing scene, he was viewed as a fighter who used an excessive amount of holding and other illegal tactics in his fights. He was able to get away with it when he was the hometown fighter or when he was the up-and-coming fighter being showcased by HBO, but once he met a fighter whose stature was equal (or above) his own, in the United States, he was no longer going to get the benefit of the doubt.
I think the Mayweather team recognized this and exploited it in a very successful way. They were campaigning in the media prior to the fight and were almost certainly in Cortez' ear the moment he was announced as the ref. I also think Cortez probably saw Hatton as someone who bent the rules to his advantage and he probably saw himself (or was convinced to see himself) as doing the right thing for the integrity of the sport by trying to call the fight strictly by the rules.
Do I think Cortez did a bad job? Yes, I do. He allowed no inside fighting whatsoever (not that it mattered, because Hatton was getting owned on the inside when Cortez allowed infighting to take place). But, I think it was Hatton's quite justified reputation that was the primary reason Cortez called the fight the way he did.
Contradiction.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
Was it this fight the ref was gushing (like a teenage girl to Justin Beiber) to Floyd about how it was a privelidge to work his fight just as Floyd was waiting to go to the ring and just after hed given him instructions in front of the camera?
:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by rossContradiction.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
Was it this fight the ref was gushing (like a teenage girl to Justin Beiber) to Floyd about how it was a privelidge to work his fight just as Floyd was waiting to go to the ring and just after hed given him instructions in front of the camera?
Semantics.
Cortez allowed a small amount of inside fighting, but it was a minuscule amount compared to most boxing matches. When they were allowed to fight on the inside, Hatton was taking a beating.
I'm a big fan of inside fighting so I prefer when a ref
1) Tells the fighters to punch their way out and gives them a chance to do so
if that doesn't work
2) Physically intercedes by touching gloves to indicate what he wants
if that doesn't work
3) calls "Stop" and breaks the fighters and remind them he expects them to "punch their way out."
Cortez did little of that. So I thought he stunk. Having said that I think if Hatton fights Floyd at 147 ten times with ten different refs? Floyd wins all ten.
Was just so frustrating to watch. We all have our favourite fighters and i'm sure a lot of people thought Hatton would win but i would rather see a good, tough, give and take fight with the ref just there to keep the action flowing smoothly with no blatant dirty illegal fighting.
Yeah Hatton was up against it but i always thought that with his non stop pressure, crunching body shots he would have at the least been a very tough fight for Mayweather. Not saying there would have been a different winner but with Cortez keeping his interference to a minimum we would have seen a much more composed Hatton and a very competitive fight where Mayweather would have been made more uncomfortable than he was accustomed to.
Yeah, I want to make it clear that I am not saying that Cortez's actions caused a different result but I am just saying that he stunk up the joint. He would step in at times half heartedly which gave both fighters opportunities to throw extra shots and he just generally seemed aloof and overwhelmed IMO.
Joe Cortez isn't one of the worst refs, but he's one of those that can turn a fight into the "Joe Cortez Show". In other words, instead of the focus being on the 2 fighters where it belongs, you're constantly being distracted by what Cortez does. I really don't like Cortez as a ref, he's just way too interfering in big fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by chinchekked
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
I think Cortez did a pretty, piss-poor job & the point deduction was an awful call. However, on the moments they were on the inside, Hatton was getting beat up. Mayweather was just better than him in every way. What's amazing I think is that Hatton fought a great fight. People look at him losing & think that he lost his composure, but I think he got his tactics spot on as evidenced by the 2 or 3 rounds he won.
The problem is that imo you had a very good fighter against a great one. That very rarely works out in the very good guy's favour & quite frankly weight (Hatton typically weighs more than PBF on fight night) is a non-issue for me.
Like CFH says, Hatton had the benefits of 'friendly' refs all the way prior to that & I think he'd been allowed to get away with so much that he didn't know how to moderate what he was doing any more. Cortez still annoyed me in that fight, but Hatton didn't lose because of him, he would have got stopped anyway because of the way they matched-up stylistically. Where Cortez really did fuck it up was in the Soto-Lorenzo fight, his refereeing there really was a farce. The weird thing is that now his status has dropped, I've seen him doing a good job of not involving himself in the Arce-Vazquez Jr, Khan-Maidana & Rios-Acosta fights.
:vd: The very same people that hated Cortez in the Hatton-Mayweather fight were praying he'd be the ref for Haye-Wlad
...In a meaningful fight of any nature whether a title is on the line or not the ref should ALWAYS err on the side of doing too little rather than doing too much. Also whenever possible explain the calls he's making, communication never hurts.
Where's VD when you need him....
If he did it was a smart thing to do. And a good thing. The referring in the Tszyu-Hatton fight was a fucking disgrace. Paris let Hatton do whatever he wanted. He impacted Tszyu-Hatton way more than Cortez did Mayweather-Hatton. There is no doubt Hatton doesn't win the Tszyu fight if not for his tag team partner ParisQuote:
Originally Posted by BIG HRay Hatton could've been ref and Ricky would still have lost, but Cortez did have a hig affect on thr fight imo. It was almost as if he has watched Hatton vs Tszyu and decided that he would dictate how Ricky could fight against PBF. He was over fussy and should've let the action go. It was a boxing match, not a tickling contest afterall.Quote:
Originally Posted by chinchekked
Hahaha I love british people but some of you are crazy with the nationalism for your fighters. It is years later and you guys are still bringing up Joe Cortez. Hatton would never in a million years beat Floyd. Let's just be real about it.
Joe Cortez is the Jim Lampley of refs. He's amused best with the sound of his own voice.
In that fight it really wouldn't have mattered though. Mayweathers class was rising to the forefront and for all of Hattons spunk, determination and work inside he couldn't match it.
Oh and truth be told...I picked Hatton :-X
Yes you did. Hatton failed miserably in breaking Mayweather's ribsQuote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
That KB really does a number on a guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseYes you did. Hatton failed miserably in breaking Mayweather's ribsQuote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
I'm neither British nor a Ricky Hatton fan. I just call em like I see em.Quote:
Originally Posted by CommunistKevin
Exactly, and the reason he lost his composure was down to one man, Joe Cortez.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
I remember seeing a montage someone put together of the fight which highlighted all of Cortez's bias towards Floyd. It was the most disgusting piece of ref'ing i have ever witnessed. In my book he should not of been allowed to ref another fight after that one.
The Aussies could do a montage of the Tszyu and do the same with Paris, at the end of the day Hatton lost it not because of the ref but because of himself. Hatton has never used it as an excuse.Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyhitmanExactly, and the reason he lost his composure was down to one man, Joe Cortez.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
I remember seeing a montage someone put together of the fight which highlighted all of Cortez's bias towards Floyd. It was the most disgusting piece of ref'ing i have ever witnessed. In my book he should not of been allowed to ref another fight after that one.
:pQuote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
Hatton would have gotten owned by Mayweather if Billy Graham were the ref. Mayweather had too much skill, speed and elusiveness for Hatton.
By the way i was pulling for Hatton because I cant stand mayweather.
Hatton would never have beaten Mayweather regardless. That's not what is being said here. What is being said is that Cortez did a shit job of refereeing this fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by CommunistKevin
So what your saying is Hatton ain't shit without the ref in his pocket, right? I agree. Without a ref helping him, Hatton loses his composure, than consciousness and than the fightQuote:
Originally Posted by MattyhitmanExactly, and the reason he lost his composure was down to one man, Joe Cortez.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
I remember seeing a montage someone put together of the fight which highlighted all of Cortez's bias towards Floyd. It was the most disgusting piece of ref'ing i have ever witnessed. In my book he should not of been allowed to ref another fight after that one.
Cortez nor any other ref would have stopped Hatton from repeatedly running into Mayweather's check left hook.
Cortez was a disgrace, billy graham asked cortez for a fair go before the fight and said his fighter was dirty, eveytime hatton breathed near mayweather cortez pulled hatton away, he even slapped hattons arms at one point! Its all 'ifs and buts' i agree mayweather wud of probley won anyway as he was and still is one of the best boxers around, so i dont think he needed any favours from the ref, but i also think hatton wasnt allowed to get close and physical like he did against kosta, i dont think hatton would of beaten kosta if the same cortez was ref that night, it spoilt what cud have been a closer fight imo if hatton had been left to get on and fight his fight
:vd:Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseSo what your saying is Hatton ain't shit without the ref in his pocket, right? I agree. Without a ref helping him, Hatton loses his composure, than consciousness and than the fightQuote:
Originally Posted by MattyhitmanExactly, and the reason he lost his composure was down to one man, Joe Cortez.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
I remember seeing a montage someone put together of the fight which highlighted all of Cortez's bias towards Floyd. It was the most disgusting piece of ref'ing i have ever witnessed. In my book he should not of been allowed to ref another fight after that one.
As someone that hates on Hatton I expect nothing less from you. But in replying at least try to make your post legible in the future, thanks ;)
Bullshit. For the record ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
El cockbong talk about something other than klit you boring cunt!!
Ah, the famous quote that Ricky and his fans use to justify his dirty style. You can use it to justify anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
Who cares that Margarito was using loaded wraps, its a boxing match not a tickling contest. Right?
Cortez did a great job of keeping the illegal bullshit out of the fight and Hatton got destroyed by a superior fighter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattyhitman:vd:Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseSo what your saying is Hatton ain't shit without the ref in his pocket, right? I agree. Without a ref helping him, Hatton loses his composure, than consciousness and than the fightQuote:
Originally Posted by MattyhitmanExactly, and the reason he lost his composure was down to one man, Joe Cortez.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
I remember seeing a montage someone put together of the fight which highlighted all of Cortez's bias towards Floyd. It was the most disgusting piece of ref'ing i have ever witnessed. In my book he should not of been allowed to ref another fight after that one.
As someone that hates on Hatton I expect nothing less from you. But in replying at least try to make your post legible in the future, thanks ;)
So what are we to expect from a Brit named Mattyhitman on this subject, hmmm? ;D
I was talking about Joe Cortez and the British fans contradictory stance on him princess.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky11
I didn't think I had used any really big words. I guess I didQuote:
Originally Posted by Mattyhitman:vd:Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseSo what your saying is Hatton ain't shit without the ref in his pocket, right? I agree. Without a ref helping him, Hatton loses his composure, than consciousness and than the fightQuote:
Originally Posted by MattyhitmanExactly, and the reason he lost his composure was down to one man, Joe Cortez.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
I remember seeing a montage someone put together of the fight which highlighted all of Cortez's bias towards Floyd. It was the most disgusting piece of ref'ing i have ever witnessed. In my book he should not of been allowed to ref another fight after that one.
As someone that hates on Hatton I expect nothing less from you. But in replying at least try to make your post legible in the future, thanks ;)
Yeah, that damn Cortez. He almost cost Ricky a chance to later on fight for the world's p4p (Ricky's words) against Manny Pacquiao. Now THAT would've been a damn shame.
:)
The manny fight was the refs fault too. He stopped it too early. It was a flash knockdown