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I've always wondered what is the difference between the British and Common wealth titles ? And what do they mean to you fans in the UK ?
I can remember hearing a few years back about Danny Williams and Matt Skelton going back and forth for the British Heavyweight Title and it being somewhat exciting for some fans.
What is the deal with these belts ?
Back in the day when there was one world champion per division regional titles were enormously prestigious and important. The Commonwealth crown, the Euro Crown and the OPBF (Asia) champs were often in line for a "world title" shot.
I'm pretty sure the difference is the British Crown is the Champ of the British Isles (England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland) while the Commonwealth involves those areas as well as Canada, Australia, New Zealand and other former British Colonies like Ghana and other parts of Africa.
Of course one has to be a citizen of those places to be a champ. An American can't be British champ even if he beats him.
I'm pretty sure all that is accurate.
Thank you Mr. Boxing Encyclopedia ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui
Thats interesting that an American can't win the title.
The titles mean jack crap!
Will David Haye win one? Could he win won? Who's the current British Champ?
I guess the American equivalent to those titles is the NABF title perhaps?
Yup. But guys from now independent nations that used to be colonies can still be Commonwealth champs. Nigerian Dick Tiger was one and so was Ghan-ian (?) Azumah Nelson IIRC.Quote:
Originally Posted by HulkThank you Mr. Boxing Encyclopedia ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui
Thats interesting that an American can't win the title.
With all the "world" titles now they don't mean much. Like I said, too bad because they really used to carry some weight.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
You keep your anti-Haye agenda outta here you bastard !!! ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
In the days of Henry Cooper the British Title was a big deal, he was back page news everytime he fought and everyone knew who the British HW champ was. Now it has died off a lot but it is still probably the most attractive belt of them all. Chisora is the holder now and I bet there are hardly any non boxing fans who actually know that.
Whats the deal with any belt? Boxing was born in Britain. Their domestic boxing scene is ten times better then the slop we are fed via ppv on this continent. War the Brits!Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
The Greeks are on your other line ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitQuote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
Whats the deal with any belt? Boxing was born in Britain. Their domestic boxing scene is ten times better then the slop we are fed via ppv on this continent. War the Brits!
Next time I'll be sure to premise with Marquess of QueensberryQuote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiThe Greeks are on your other line ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitQuote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
Whats the deal with any belt? Boxing was born in Britain. Their domestic boxing scene is ten times better then the slop we are fed via ppv on this continent. War the Brits!
Actually the Brits predate Queensbury by 150 years anyway. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitNext time I'll be sure to premise with Marquess of QueensberryQuote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiThe Greeks are on your other line ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitQuote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
Whats the deal with any belt? Boxing was born in Britain. Their domestic boxing scene is ten times better then the slop we are fed via ppv on this continent. War the Brits!
Getting back to the point, while we all agree (I think) the Brit titles really don't tell us much, if they get fighters motivated and the Brit fans excited? Sounds ok to me.
I know the Brits predate Queensbury and the apes predated mankind. And?Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiActually the Brits predate Queensbury by 150 years anyway. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitNext time I'll be sure to premise with Marquess of QueensberryQuote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiThe Greeks are on your other line ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitQuote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
Whats the deal with any belt? Boxing was born in Britain. Their domestic boxing scene is ten times better then the slop we are fed via ppv on this continent. War the Brits!
Getting back to the point, while we all agree (I think) the Brit titles really don't tell us much, if they get fighters motivated and the Brit fans excited? Sounds ok to me.
The world titles dont tell us much so what of the Commonwealth.
It's a bit like a british fighter trying to win the nabf/nabo title I supposeQuote:
Originally Posted by HulkThank you Mr. Boxing Encyclopedia ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui
Thats interesting that an American can't win the title.
I dunno, its given you ANOTHER chance to mention David Haye's name.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Yeah and let's not forget his nickname!!
David the "excusemaker" haye
Hilarious. That's a "McFly" moment if ever there was one ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by HulkThank you Mr. Boxing Encyclopedia ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui
Thats interesting that an American can't win the title.
These titles still are important to fighters. Apart from the prestige of being the champion of your country/europe/commonwealth, the champion is gauranteed the lions share of purse splits for defences, and in the case of the European title, gaurantee a top 10-15 rating with the WBC. Couple of defences and you'll be top 5.
So these stepping stone titles help promote you to a "world" title shot. Currently see Darren Barker-Sergio Martinez. Barker is (was) the European champion, had a top 3 rating with the WBC and gets a shot at their champ.
I think anything that relates to the commonwealth should be scrapped. That includes the Commonwealth Games. Just a daft outdated relic.
The British Title is still very prestigious though, but maybe if only for fighters that are never gonna be world beaters? :-\
^^ Sounds like the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS the americans hold for so many sports (yet are only inclusive of american teams) LOL :)
I don't see a problem with it at all, but I do have a problem with so many CHAMPIONS OF THE WORLD etc ... It is clear, this belt is champion of the commonwealth states, the british one reflecting the british isles... Dont see an issue?
See the key there is there is ONE Brit/Commonwealth Champ. There IS value in that. Wait until the WBA creates intermi, regular, super, emeritus, diamond belt and the dreaded silver belt Brit titles! Then EVERYONE can be a champ ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterHilarious. That's a "McFly" moment if ever there was one ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by HulkThank you Mr. Boxing Encyclopedia ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui
Thats interesting that an American can't win the title.
These titles still are important to fighters. Apart from the prestige of being the champion of your country/europe/commonwealth, the champion is gauranteed the lions share of purse splits for defences, and in the case of the European title, gaurantee a top 10-15 rating with the WBC. Couple of defences and you'll be top 5.
So these stepping stone titles help promote you to a "world" title shot. Currently see Darren Barker-Sergio Martinez. Barker is (was) the European champion, had a top 3 rating with the WBC and gets a shot at their champ.
Thankfully not even the ridiculous world of boxing can get away with multiple champs per country/county/area. I bet it's been attempted/discussed though ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiSee the key there is there is ONE Brit/Commonwealth Champ. There IS value in that. Wait until the WBA creates intermi, regular, super, emeritus, diamond belt and the dreaded silver belt Brit titles! Then EVERYONE can be a champ ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterHilarious. That's a "McFly" moment if ever there was one ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by HulkThank you Mr. Boxing Encyclopedia ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui
Thats interesting that an American can't win the title.
These titles still are important to fighters. Apart from the prestige of being the champion of your country/europe/commonwealth, the champion is gauranteed the lions share of purse splits for defences, and in the case of the European title, gaurantee a top 10-15 rating with the WBC. Couple of defences and you'll be top 5.
So these stepping stone titles help promote you to a "world" title shot. Currently see Darren Barker-Sergio Martinez. Barker is (was) the European champion, had a top 3 rating with the WBC and gets a shot at their champ.
Frank Bruno never won a commonwealth title, but Lennox Lewis did and went through the title ‘old school’ and worked his way up to European and then world title, which is the order and status of them. He could have fought Rudduck for it when they met too I believe.
The Lonsdale belt is the prettiest belt of them all.
Woo Hooo!Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
I LOVE the Lonsdale Belt!
I think for a British fighter, a British belt means alot. They all seem pretty proud to lift it, even the ones just using it as a stepping stone to bigger and better things. People like James DeGale! ;)
McFly ? As in from Back to the Future ?Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterHilarious. That's a "McFly" moment if ever there was one ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by HulkThank you Mr. Boxing Encyclopedia ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui
Thats interesting that an American can't win the title.
These titles still are important to fighters. Apart from the prestige of being the champion of your country/europe/commonwealth, the champion is gauranteed the lions share of purse splits for defences, and in the case of the European title, gaurantee a top 10-15 rating with the WBC. Couple of defences and you'll be top 5.
So these stepping stone titles help promote you to a "world" title shot. Currently see Darren Barker-Sergio Martinez. Barker is (was) the European champion, had a top 3 rating with the WBC and gets a shot at their champ.
I was simply stating that it is surprising that if an American or any other nationality beats a Brit for the British or Commonwealth title, then he cannot win the title. Not that he would really give a shit about it in the first place ;D;)
The British title is a big deal. If you defend it twice you win the Lonsdale belt, a belt you get to keep outright. Throughout British history it's been one of the most sought after honours for many British fighters and those who have won it are well remembered in British boxing history.
The list of outright winners is actually pretty small.
From Wikipedia
- Freddie Welsh (1912) [1]
- Jim Driscoll (1910)
- Digger Stanley (1910)
- Bombardier Billy Wells (heavyweight) (1913)
- Jimmy Wilde (flyweight) (1917)
- Pat O'Keeffe (middleweight) (1918)
- Johnny Brown (bantamweight) (1923) (defended twice 1925, retained)
- Jack Petersen (heavyweight) (1935)
- Nel Tarleton (outright winner of two belts in 1936 and 1945)
- Jackie Paterson (flyweight) (1943)
- Ronnie Clayton (outright winner of two belts in 1950 and 1953)
- Randolph Turpin (light-heavyweight) (1952, outright in 1956)
- Peter Keenan (outright winner of two belts in 1953 and 1957)
- Henry Cooper (outright winner of three belts)
- Brian Curvis (outright winner of two belts in 1961 and 1964)
- Howard Winstone (outright winner of two belts in 1962 and 1963)
- Maurice Cullen (lightweight) (1966)
- George Feeney (1984)
- Hugh Russell (1985)
- Billy Hardy (bantamweight) (1989)
- Lennox Lewis (heavyweight) (1992)
- Richie Wenton (super-bantam weight) (1994 - 1996)
- Julius Francis (heavyweight) (1999)
- Michael Gomez (super featherweight) (2000)
- Danny Williams (heavyweight) (2002)
- David Barnes (welterweight) (2004)
- Matt Skelton (heavyweight) (2005)
- Scott Dann (middleweight) (2005)
- Carl Froch (super middleweight) (2006)
- Kell Brook (welterweight) (2009)
- John Simpson (featherweight) (2010)
That is a fascinating list! Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Winstone is one of those guys we don't talk about enough.
Scott Dan is on there, was just chatting about him in another thread, one of the guys trains in a gym with him, he's a local lad.
Named next to some prestigious names.
Seriously. I count four no bullspit ATG and three other great fighters on that list. That's some company your friend is keeping.Quote:
Originally Posted by 0james0
I heard a while back that there was a film about Winstone coming out. Might be interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiThat is a fascinating list! Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Winstone is one of those guys we don't talk about enough.
the commonwealth belt is a decent beltQuote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus
One below the british if you like and very prestigeous
and the commonwealth games are decent, the one in Manchester a few years back did endless good for the city and the country
for instance the veladrome (spelling) was built for the games and since a lot of the training for the british bike athletes happens there, and look at how many golds we won in those events in the last olympics
i think you just need to win 3 british title fights at the same weight dont you to get one to keep?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Good point on the CW games, were regeneration is concerned but that has naff all to do with Boxing ay?Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44the commonwealth belt is a decent beltQuote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus
One below the british if you like and very prestigeous
and the commonwealth games are decent, the one in Manchester a few years back did endless good for the city and the country
for instance the veladrome (spelling) was built for the games and since a lot of the training for the british bike athletes happens there, and look at how many golds we won in those events in the last olympics
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel BoogustusGood point on the CW games, were regeneration is concerned but that has naff all to do with Boxing ay?Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44the commonwealth belt is a decent beltQuote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus
One below the british if you like and very prestigeous
and the commonwealth games are decent, the one in Manchester a few years back did endless good for the city and the country
for instance the veladrome (spelling) was built for the games and since a lot of the training for the british bike athletes happens there, and look at how many golds we won in those events in the last olympics
you said anything to do with the commonwealth should be scrapped
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuI heard a while back that there was a film about Winstone coming out. Might be interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiThat is a fascinating list! Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Winstone is one of those guys we don't talk about enough.
The film is called Risen, and TBH it aint great.
Al though it does have Erik Morales in it.
Yeah... Then you made a valid point regarding Regeneration. But that has nothing to do with the Commonwealth belt.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel BoogustusGood point on the CW games, were regeneration is concerned but that has naff all to do with Boxing ay?Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44the commonwealth belt is a decent beltQuote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus
One below the british if you like and very prestigeous
and the commonwealth games are decent, the one in Manchester a few years back did endless good for the city and the country
for instance the veladrome (spelling) was built for the games and since a lot of the training for the british bike athletes happens there, and look at how many golds we won in those events in the last olympics
you said anything to do with the commonwealth should be scrapped
So what I'm saying is, I retract my comment about The games, simply on the premise it creates jobs & wealth for our nation (tbc).
Kapeesh?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel BoogustusYeah... Then you made a valid point regarding Regeneration. But that has nothing to do with the Commonwealth belt.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel BoogustusGood point on the CW games, were regeneration is concerned but that has naff all to do with Boxing ay?Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44the commonwealth belt is a decent beltQuote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus
One below the british if you like and very prestigeous
and the commonwealth games are decent, the one in Manchester a few years back did endless good for the city and the country
for instance the veladrome (spelling) was built for the games and since a lot of the training for the british bike athletes happens there, and look at how many golds we won in those events in the last olympics
you said anything to do with the commonwealth should be scrapped
So what I'm saying is, I retract my comment about The games, simply on the premise it creates jobs & wealth for our nation (tbc).
Kapeesh?
i get you now, you need to make this shit clear in the first place
by the way, the commonwealth belt is a very valid belt
not only does it give british fighters a clear route to the british title it also gives fighters from poorer african countries who are struggling to live a chance to make some money
Meh... It's not valid. The commonwealth is not valid as it is virtually not existent.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel BoogustusYeah... Then you made a valid point regarding Regeneration. But that has nothing to do with the Commonwealth belt.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel BoogustusGood point on the CW games, were regeneration is concerned but that has naff all to do with Boxing ay?Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44the commonwealth belt is a decent beltQuote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus
One below the british if you like and very prestigeous
and the commonwealth games are decent, the one in Manchester a few years back did endless good for the city and the country
for instance the veladrome (spelling) was built for the games and since a lot of the training for the british bike athletes happens there, and look at how many golds we won in those events in the last olympics
you said anything to do with the commonwealth should be scrapped
So what I'm saying is, I retract my comment about The games, simply on the premise it creates jobs & wealth for our nation (tbc).
Kapeesh?
i get you now, you need to make this shit clear in the first place
by the way, the commonwealth belt is a very valid belt
not only does it give british fighters a clear route to the british title it also gives fighters from poorer african countries who are struggling to live a chance to make some money
whats that got to do with boxing?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel BoogustusMeh... It's not valid. The commonwealth is not valid as it is virtually not existent.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel BoogustusYeah... Then you made a valid point regarding Regeneration. But that has nothing to do with the Commonwealth belt.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel BoogustusGood point on the CW games, were regeneration is concerned but that has naff all to do with Boxing ay?Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44the commonwealth belt is a decent beltQuote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus
One below the british if you like and very prestigeous
and the commonwealth games are decent, the one in Manchester a few years back did endless good for the city and the country
for instance the veladrome (spelling) was built for the games and since a lot of the training for the british bike athletes happens there, and look at how many golds we won in those events in the last olympics
you said anything to do with the commonwealth should be scrapped
So what I'm saying is, I retract my comment about The games, simply on the premise it creates jobs & wealth for our nation (tbc).
Kapeesh?
i get you now, you need to make this shit clear in the first place
by the way, the commonwealth belt is a very valid belt
not only does it give british fighters a clear route to the british title it also gives fighters from poorer african countries who are struggling to live a chance to make some money
Well, it's a Commonwealth title which is a joke because the the Commonwealth is a sham. Non-entity.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44whats that got to do with boxing?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus
It may as well be the Super British Title.
And even if the Commonwealth games does generate jobs and such, I still find it farcical. Even Britain barley exists, let alone the Nation of the Commonwealth. What Commonwealth?!
I mean why compete as England for one set of games but suddenly your Team GBR for the other games? It's just daft and out dated.