I believe that Tszyu is the best boxer to ever come out of Australia.
Assuming that he does not attempt a comeback, how do you rank/remember him?
Personally I see him as being incredibly under appreciated for the amazing talent he was.
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I believe that Tszyu is the best boxer to ever come out of Australia.
Assuming that he does not attempt a comeback, how do you rank/remember him?
Personally I see him as being incredibly under appreciated for the amazing talent he was.
read this thread - http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...overrated.html
Not sure he 'came out of Australia' ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by FacePuncher
An argument can be made for Fenech too. I think the rest of the world appreciates him, sadly its probably here in Australia where he is most underappreciated.
If he could have got a fight with one of the big names (DLH, Mosley, Floyd) around 2000-2003 and won or even done well it would be easier to judge just how good he was. I believe on his day he was a match for any fighter at 140, but he never had that career defining fight.
Haha and look at the forum bullies ganging up on the new guy... ;D
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle
He did... he fought Hatton.... and lost ;D
Na seriously tho, I rated him highly, and still do, as ya say eagle real shame he didnt get it on with Floyd. The only top American he got in there with was Judah, and look what happended to him ;D
Dont get me started on the Dave Parris.... sorry i mean Hatton fight.....;D He did a lot better against slick fighters than he did pressure men. He chased the money in the Hatton fight and it effectively ended his career cos he got beat badly.Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyhitmanQuote:
Originally Posted by eagle
He did... he fought Hatton.... and lost ;D
Na seriously tho, I rated him highly, and still do, as ya say eagle real shame he didnt get it on with Floyd. The only top American he got in there with was Judah, and look what happended to him ;D
;DQuote:
Originally Posted by eagleDont get me started on the Dave Parris.... sorry i mean Hatton fight.....;D He did a lot better against slick fighters than he did pressure men. He chased the money in the Hatton fight and it effectively ended his career cos he got beat badly.Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyhitmanQuote:
Originally Posted by eagle
He did... he fought Hatton.... and lost ;D
Na seriously tho, I rated him highly, and still do, as ya say eagle real shame he didnt get it on with Floyd. The only top American he got in there with was Judah, and look what happended to him ;D
Actually I should take back what I said cos he battered an on form Sharmba Mitchell before the Hatton fight.
I remember at the time, talk was of Ricky fighting Mitchell and KT got to him first.
I really feared for Ricks health leading upto the fight, I thought once KT landed that straight shot flush on Ricks chin he would be out, but to his credit he took them, same could not be said of Mitchell and Zab tho ;D
Ricky's rushing and holding didnt really allow KT to set himself and throw. Was a good gameplan helped by a lenient ref. Don't know if Tszyu got him flush in the fight. Cant believe it was 6 years ago!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattyhitman;DQuote:
Originally Posted by eagleDont get me started on the Dave Parris.... sorry i mean Hatton fight.....;D He did a lot better against slick fighters than he did pressure men. He chased the money in the Hatton fight and it effectively ended his career cos he got beat badly.Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyhitmanQuote:
Originally Posted by eagle
He did... he fought Hatton.... and lost ;D
Na seriously tho, I rated him highly, and still do, as ya say eagle real shame he didnt get it on with Floyd. The only top American he got in there with was Judah, and look what happended to him ;D
Actually I should take back what I said cos he battered an on form Sharmba Mitchell before the Hatton fight.
I remember at the time, talk was of Ricky fighting Mitchell and KT got to him first.
I really feared for Ricks health leading upto the fight, I thought once KT landed that straight shot flush on Ricks chin he would be out, but to his credit he took them, same could not be said of Mitchell and Zab tho ;D
From what I remember he caught him a couple of times, Rick said himself he caught by a few when moving in, just think it was the adrenaline and the moment that kept him going more than anything else.Quote:
Originally Posted by eagleRicky's rushing and holding didnt really allow KT to set himself and throw. Was a good gameplan helped by a lenient ref. Don't know if Tszyu got him flush in the fight. Cant believe it was 6 years ago!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattyhitman;DQuote:
Originally Posted by eagleDont get me started on the Dave Parris.... sorry i mean Hatton fight.....;D He did a lot better against slick fighters than he did pressure men. He chased the money in the Hatton fight and it effectively ended his career cos he got beat badly.Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyhitmanQuote:
Originally Posted by eagle
He did... he fought Hatton.... and lost ;D
Na seriously tho, I rated him highly, and still do, as ya say eagle real shame he didnt get it on with Floyd. The only top American he got in there with was Judah, and look what happended to him ;D
Actually I should take back what I said cos he battered an on form Sharmba Mitchell before the Hatton fight.
I remember at the time, talk was of Ricky fighting Mitchell and KT got to him first.
I really feared for Ricks health leading upto the fight, I thought once KT landed that straight shot flush on Ricks chin he would be out, but to his credit he took them, same could not be said of Mitchell and Zab tho ;D
6yrs... shit.... still remember clear as day the whole weekend in manchester, the walk to the MEN, and all the Tszyu Crew outside the Arena chanting and singing, good bunch of fans, even after the fight when drinking in the pub's they were all good natured !
For a long while I thought Tszyu came out of Korea. He looked like one of those Koreans that ran one of those liquor stores in L.A.
Kostya was a beast with his right hand and had incredible timing. He had a brilliant amateur pedigree and his demolition of Gonzales, who was a very good fighter was brilliant to watch. He destroyed a prime Judah, like no other fighter has ever done. He was also gracious in his defeat against Hatton and gave a good speech at the end.
The best fighters to come out of Australia in at least some sense have been Bob Fitzsimmons and Young Griffo.
The thing about Kostya is almost his whole career starting with Laporte was at a high level.
Good fighter, great champion.
When I think of the HOF? I think Kostya is the marginal guy if induction is to mean anything. By that I mean you shouild have to be more accomplished than Kostya to get in. Less accomplished? You don't.
Barry McGuigan is in, so the bar is already set pretty low.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui
One mistake shouldn't be used to justify another ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogBarry McGuigan is in, so the bar is already set pretty low.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui
Sorry guys, you gotta get OUT! Barry, Ingo, Norris, Papp (I feel bad about that one). Mitchell, Canizales, Graham and I'm leaving someone off the list I think.
He was great for the sport an ambassador for it really and drew many fans to it.
I think he was a very good boxer one of the best there was but chose to test himself and others out in slug matches because thats what people came to see and he was there to give the crowd what they wanted.
I know he could box and move better than he ever did in the pros, I was hoping he may of combined the two styles eventually but he became a heavier moving distance measurer for timing heavy hits, instead of being an on the toes evasive counter fighter he once was and a solid footed finisher second.
We never really saw the best of KT, he started in the pros rather late at the age of 23, not his fault due to his background. His style had to alter in the professional ranks because judging a pro fight is completely different to the amateurs. It's a good thing he knocked out most of his opponents. The Phillips loss has tarnished his legacy or so it seems on this forum, losing to a fighter he would beat 99 out of 100 times appears to have dimmed his star in the eyes of many. He didn't lose again for 8 years after that, people have short memories. Tszyu was a class act, he put on a show, sometimes at the detriment of his own performance. He was a crowd pleaser.
We saw glimpses of his brilliance in the ring (Gonzalez being the best example) Judah round 2 shows just how well he could adjust. He never got the big mega fight against Mosley or DLH, a very convenient non occurence for both of those men. He threw out the challenge to JCC after his 4th pro fight and Chavez wanted nothing of it back in 1993. 50% of all his fights were against world champions.
IMO he gives the likes of Whitaker and PBF a torrid time too, in the end injuries and inactivity due to those injuries plus reaching his 36th year beat him. ( i won't discount a little bit of ego too as he gave away far to many concessions to Hatton's people) I don't think he gets the credit for his efforts in the ring considering his 10 year reign at the top and in comparison to the rather sad way Chavez, Mosley, DLH and RJJ have ended their careers. At least Tszyu went out fighting and lost to the young gun at the time in Hatton, He retired at the right time. Hatton on the other hand was never the same fighter again after his fight with Tszyu. There is no bottle or steroid controversy associated with Tszyu, even Mayweather didn't trash talk him! Tszyu was a fighter who fought won and lost, he was a great of the sport and there are to few like him nowadays.
Trouble is not demanding a rematch with Philips early on made fans all over the world think Phillips had his number which maybe the case :-\. After hearing about Phillips own drug abuse I thought he may of been on something that helped him along too, but that could of been my imagination running away. I just hated how back then in the day we thought the greats like Maradona and some other greats in other sports too were all natural talent but were in fact coke induced.
The rematch was going to happen, but Terronn Millett beat a laclustre Phillips in early 1999, Millett was then stripped of the title and Tszyu fought Miguel Angel Gonzalez. Phillips would not have lasted 3 rounds in any rematch IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre
Why do you say that mate that he wouldnt go many rounds if it occurred again?
Do you think Phillips just had a real good night and Kostya a bad one?
Its a decent old war to watch Ive looked at it a number of times there wasnt luck involved in it. I recon Hatton studied it too and thought fukkin hell this it, its got to be all or nothing and I have to rough him up anyway I can. I also think Urkal studied it too, he went to war as well. Others went in mistakenly thinking they had some edge and got dragged down the mines for real days work instead. That would of happened to Judah too, I believe he couldnt of won that other than an early lucky stoppage similar to what he got done to him.
He had a good night alright, Tszyu was told to call off the fight due to a gastro attack the night before. He went into the ring at 138lb, 2 lb lighter than the weigh in and Phillips at about 145lb. Tszyu wanted the show to go on, it was a mistake.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre
Yeah, I remember hearing that Tszyu was extremely ill days before the fight. I thought it was something like diarrhea though. I gotta agree that Tszyu crushes him in the rematch and that Phillips had a really good night. People forget but Phillips was a massive talent in the amateurs and was expected to do huge(I mean HUGE) things in the pros. He grossly underachieved as a pro but he had skills and talent which is why it bothers me when some posters make it seem like Kostya lost to a straight scrub which is not the case
I think people remember his very poor showing against Millett, the fight was stopped mainly due to Phillips inabilty to actual perform on the night and the ref had enough. He just didn't do anything in that fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by chinchekked
Wow I didnt realize that he came in at 138! Not like him at all, Kostya is a big barrel chested dude out of the ring when walking around and its an art form how he strips weight to fight at that chosen weight then come in big on fight day.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MANHe had a good night alright, Tszyu was told to call off the fight due to a gastro attack the night before. He went into the ring at 138lb, 2 lb lighter than the weigh in and Phillips at about 145lb. Tszyu wanted the show to go on, it was a mistake.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre
I remember him taking about that once and I was surprised that it involved such big limits and numbers of dehydrating to such an extent then re hydrating. I always thought that its a big part, but never such an art in itself when being big to start with.
This occured due to gastro problems leading up to the weigh in, he had the shits for days and instead of putting on weight after the weigh in he continued to lose weight. If you look at the fight, he never had the power or stamina that we usually associate with Tszyu and i remember thinking by round 5 he was in trouble. He was landing punches on Phillips, but with little effect? He also looked drawn and gaunt at the Hatton weigh in when he didn't make the weight the first time. There was talk of him going up to Welter before the Hatton fight and facing Spinks, he was having trouble making 140lb by this time, being out of the ring for almost 2 years wouldn't have helped his cause much. In retrospect he should've gone to Welter after the Mitchell fight. The lure of a big pay day and a possible PBF fight clouded his judgement. C'est la VieQuote:
Originally Posted by AndreWow I didnt realize that he came in at 138! Not like him at all, Kostya is a big barrel chested dude out of the ring when walking around and its an art form how he strips weight to fight at that chosen weight then come in big on fight day.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MANHe had a good night alright, Tszyu was told to call off the fight due to a gastro attack the night before. He went into the ring at 138lb, 2 lb lighter than the weigh in and Phillips at about 145lb. Tszyu wanted the show to go on, it was a mistake.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre
I remember him taking about that once and I was surprised that it involved such big limits and numbers of dehydrating to such an extent then re hydrating. I always thought that its a big part, but never such an art in itself when being big to start with.