If Pac was Juicing (Doubt he is) it would not affect his legacy

Was just thinking about this and whether to mention Pac or not; my reasoning behind this is how negative affect has being caught using steroids had on the legacy of those who have been caught?

All of the fighters below have at one stage been caught using performance enhancement drugs; every fighter in the list has also had an excuse for using performance enhancing drugs.

But these fighters are also all hall of fame bound; their biggest wins are rarely questioned and in my opinion it has not had a negative affect on the popularity of these fighters.

In my opinion better drug testing procedures are required not because the spoilt brat that is Floyd Mayweather say's so but because fighters should not be able to build a legacy whilst cheating this should be prevented at any costs.

Shane Mosely
Shane Mosley admits to using BALCO steroids

Roy Jones Junior
Boxing does not escape the specter of steroids - boxing - ESPN

Evander Holyfield
Boxing does not escape the specter of steroids - boxing - ESPN

James Toney
The Toney Steroids Debacle | BoxingInsider.com - Boxing | Boxing News

Vitali Klitscho
Boxing: Klitschko admits steroid abuse - Telegraph

Fernando Vargas
Fernando Vargas Steroids | Vargas Drug Test Reveals Steroids - Los Angeles Times

HIs legacy is a sham IMO if he tests positive, just like I feel the other guys legacy's are.

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Originally Posted by Truth

HIs legacy is a sham IMO if he tests positive, just like I feel the other guys legacy's are.

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Unfortunately you are definitely in the minority! I mean who talks about these fighters generally with anything but high regard?

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Originally Posted by Truth

HIs legacy is a sham IMO if he tests positive, just like I feel the other guys legacy's are.

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I agree 100% Not saying he is or isn't using but IF he did test positive it would completely be a hit to his legacy. How could it not be? It would obviously effected his performance. It's the same reason guys are not hitting 50-60 homeruns in baseball like they were in '97 '98 '99 etc. Plain and simple they were using, that's why there were more HR's being hit. So it would be the same for Pac if he was found to be guilty of steroids. All his accomplisments would come with a * next to them. The same way people think about Canseco, McGuire, and Sammy Sosa would be the same way people would think about Pac. And those guys are just hitting baseballs and not someones face.

It's funny I used pac as an example because it's a current issue but lets focus on the other fighters we know have cheated; would anyone say Holyfield is not a legend even though he is a known cheater?

With so much politics and money involved i am 100 % certain he won´t test positiv ;)

You can't take Pac's legacy away from him if they found out he was using a PED (I would bet my life that he is).

There are, and have been, a TON of boxers who used performance enhancing drugs, and how many of them have accomplished as much as Pac?

I think he would take a HUGE hit to his legacy if he were to test positive. If you look at it, those guys who were busted were busted out of their respective primes.

Think about it: you can ask anyone you meet on the street, they know the name Holyfield and know he was a great fighter. But how many of them know he got popped for using steroids?

Pac is still in the public eye, a positive test now would be a huge blow.

I also think he would b a sham if he was on peds!!

I agree that Peds don't make you more skilled but look at the difference between Holyfield at Cruiser and then at heavy the fact that he was having heart problems before becoming a monster again at heavy suddenly.

It gives you a whole load of benefits.

I hate to even think that these great fighters have used drugs, they are heroes.

I know it is down to the fighters own responsibility to know what is going in to their body but they employ the top nutritionists/dieticians and whoever else they can to get them in the best possible shape....but they pay a huge amount for these services by people who probably have more qualifications than i can dream of so they put a massive amount of trust in these people too.

Some people are just plain cheaters who will do anything possible to gain an advantage even if it means possibly causing permanent damage to another human being. Disgraceful.

For others it can be down to naivety,

take for example Vargas. His hatred for DLH was well documented and appeared very genuine. From early in his career he was calling for Oscar to fight him and always showed his willingness to fight him even when hugely inexperienced by comparison. Vargas was extremely popular and his heart was huge. I was a massive fan. I believe his passion for the sport was true and his career was always geared towards DLH. I don't believe he knowingly took an illegal substance, when going for the biggest fight of his life. Can you imagine what the win would have meant to him only to risk having it taken away from a stupid mistake. Vargas was all about pride and even though he had a lot of people who were not fans and slagged him off afterwards he did hold his hands up and admitted to a mistake and took his punishment.

I don't know what i believe regarding Pac but there's a lot of people to benefit if he is on PEDs. Pacman is not just a fighter he is an industry, a business with a lot of people on the payroll. A lot of big businesses i'm sure have a lot of shady dealings in order to stay ahead of the rest.

I'm a massive fan of his regardless but i think it would affect his legacy as he has accomplished so much that would become tainted.

He has every right to not agree to PBF's demands but his excuses are shit, if Money is prepared to take the same tests at the same notice and as close to the fight as needs be and face the physical disadvantages that may arise then there is no reason for Pac to not be prepared to do it.

Every man has his pride and he doesn't want to give Floyd the mental edge by giving in but in the grand scheme of things if he is 100% clean and 100% certain of victory then there is only 1 logical thing to do, and that pac is take the test ;)

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Originally Posted by Master

I hate to even think that these great fighters have used drugs, they are heroes.

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I think this is the general attitude and the reason fight fans choose to ignore cheating.

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Originally Posted by piye

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Originally Posted by Master

I hate to even think that these great fighters have used drugs, they are heroes.

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I think this is the general attitude and the reason fight fans choose to ignore cheating.

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Stupid thing to say that tested positive for drugs should not affect his legacy..tell that to marion jones. A cheat is a cheat. Cheat your fans, family and most important yourself. Manny prob is clean, who knows..he still wont take the test. Was he on steriods when morales schooled his arse.

I'm not saying that it should not affect the legacy it clearly should my point is that in boxing it won't! James Toney is still looked upon as a legend despite being caught twice.

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Originally Posted by piye

I'm not saying that it should not affect the legacy it clearly should my point is that in boxing it won't! James Toney is still looked upon as a legend despite being caught twice.

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Fair enough. I see your point. Still wrong though. Just makes clean fighters more suberb in my eyes..

it will, as innocent as pac is right now some hate him already. imagine if he actually did.

Stick to media studies, you silly cunt.

Of course it would affect his legacy if caught juicing. ;D

It will affect his legacy. but only Pac will get affected I dont know why :(

Roy Jones have roided before but seldom or you wont hear or read a post about it from boxing fans around here :p

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Originally Posted by miron_lang

It will affect his legacy. but only Pac will get affected I dont know why :(

Roy Jones have roided before but seldom or you wont hear or read a post about it from boxing fans around here :p

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Because unfortunately for Pacquiao, it's become such a soap opera of affairs. Everyone wants to know if Pac is juicing as much as they want him to fight Floyd.

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Originally Posted by miles

Stick to media studies, you silly cunt.

Of course it would affect his legacy if caught juicing. ;D

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My friend your mother has a rather fishy fanny.

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Originally Posted by Master

I hate to even think that these great fighters have used drugs, they are heroes.

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yes.. heroes! :D

RJJr went through similar crap. Did it affect his legacy? I don't think so.

Now if Roy or Manny (both fighter of the decade) got proven guilty, then ofcourse they'd deserve eternal ass chewing and must be brought to justice.

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Originally Posted by :::PSL:::

RJJr went through similar crap. Did it affect his legacy? I don't think so.

Now if Roy or Manny (both fighter of the decade) got proven guilty, then ofcourse they'd deserve eternal ass chewing and must be brought to justice.

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Roy was guilty he admitted to taking an illegal steroid but claims he got over the counter and did not know.

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Originally Posted by piye

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Originally Posted by :::PSL:::

RJJr went through similar crap. Did it affect his legacy? I don't think so.

Now if Roy or Manny (both fighter of the decade) got proven guilty, then ofcourse they'd deserve eternal ass chewing and must be brought to justice.

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Roy was guilty he admitted to taking an illegal steroid but claims he got over the counter and did not know.

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yeah but that is utter bollox

loads of fighters have juiced and it hasnt affected anything

holyfield, mosley, rjj, toney are all still heros

margarito however who was also caught cheating is a villain and hated by everyone

one rule for one and one for another or what ever the saying is

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by piye

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Originally Posted by :::PSL:::

RJJr went through similar crap. Did it affect his legacy? I don't think so.

Now if Roy or Manny (both fighter of the decade) got proven guilty, then ofcourse they'd deserve eternal ass chewing and must be brought to justice.

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Roy was guilty he admitted to taking an illegal steroid but claims he got over the counter and did not know.

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yeah but that is utter bollox

loads of fighters have juiced and it hasnt affected anything

holyfield, mosley, rjj, toney are all still heros

margarito however who was also caught cheating is a villain and hated by everyone

one rule for one and one for another or what ever the saying is

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Ah come of it. Haven't we been over this already?

Who's the bigger cheat: The porno actor who performs using viagra, or the guy who performs with a fake willy? ;D

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by piye

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Originally Posted by :::PSL:::

RJJr went through similar crap. Did it affect his legacy? I don't think so.

Now if Roy or Manny (both fighter of the decade) got proven guilty, then ofcourse they'd deserve eternal ass chewing and must be brought to justice.

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Roy was guilty he admitted to taking an illegal steroid but claims he got over the counter and did not know.

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yeah but that is utter bollox

loads of fighters have juiced and it hasnt affected anything

holyfield, mosley, rjj, toney are all still heros

margarito however who was also caught cheating is a villain and hated by everyone

one rule for one and one for another or what ever the saying is

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I agree, it's not fair but I think it's the reality in general we don't care if our fighters cheat so long as they give us exciting fights.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - all fighters should be allowed to juice. Spinach, roids, peds - they should be able to put anything they want in their bodies. Maybe a line of coke pre fight to get them really charged. Imagine Vitali on a ridiculous amount of 'roids (in the pros). He would be like a real life Ivan Drago. It would be fantastic.

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Originally Posted by boxingbantz

I've said it before and I'll say it again - all fighters should be allowed to juice. Spinach, roids, peds - they should be able to put anything they want in their bodies. Maybe a line of coke pre fight to get them really charged. Imagine Vitali on a ridiculous amount of 'roids (in the pros). He would be like a real life Ivan Drago. It would be fantastic.

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Then it would not be a competition about who is the best fighter but who is the best scientist that can come up with the best drug.

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Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by piye

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Originally Posted by :::PSL:::

RJJr went through similar crap. Did it affect his legacy? I don't think so.

Now if Roy or Manny (both fighter of the decade) got proven guilty, then ofcourse they'd deserve eternal ass chewing and must be brought to justice.

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Roy was guilty he admitted to taking an illegal steroid but claims he got over the counter and did not know.

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yeah but that is utter bollox

loads of fighters have juiced and it hasnt affected anything

holyfield, mosley, rjj, toney are all still heros

margarito however who was also caught cheating is a villain and hated by everyone

one rule for one and one for another or what ever the saying is

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Ah come of it. Haven't we been over this already?

Who's the bigger cheat: The porno actor who performs using viagra, or the guy who performs with a fake willy? ;D

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ha

i dunno mate, but if the viagra makes your willy as big as the fake willy then both are as big cheats as each other :)

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Originally Posted by Master

Then it would not be a competition about who is the best fighter but who is the best scientist that can come up with the best drug.

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So we will be seeing classic fights AND a possible winner of the Nobel Prize. Result.

Who cares is he was juicing or not.... ( For Sure He Was ) cuz now that he is broke he will have to lay off the juice while Floyd whips that ass... I can't wait to here all of you Pac boys response when Floyd dominates him. Now that Pac is broke he will insist that Bob quit avoiding the fight and Bob will cash in one last time. Pac is a FRAUD

Pac is an ATG one of the era's best and certainly no fraud.

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Originally Posted by :::PSL:::

RJJr went through similar crap. Did it affect his legacy? I don't think so.

Now if Roy or Manny (both fighter of the decade) got proven guilty, then ofcourse they'd deserve eternal ass chewing and must be brought to justice.

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Any threat to American world domination either sporting or other wise is seen as that.

Roy and Pac wont be viewed the same by US fans.

I think it is pretty obvious that Pac has been doing something. He went from 105 or 112 to 154 and got better, faster and stronger? To accept that as a fact of his natural ability is to be especially naive. It never ever worked that way before, and if training methods are so much better, then why do guys blow out in the 6th round of 12 round fights, when they used to do fights to the finish?
Now, I don't consider Holyfield a legend: he is an overrated product of recent times. Toney has been a dissapointment to me since he failed to ko RJJ; I believe that Moore, Charles, conn, Hagler, etc...(obvious non juicers) would have beaten him with a modicum of effort. The guy NEVER had the heart for a fight and was a product of a weak era.
For perspective, Henry Armstrong and Jimmy McClarnin did what they did without any possibility of steroids. So did Tony Canzoneri. Now, everybody jumps two or three weight classes.

PAC will be PAC because although the juice gives you size and strength, it doesn't mean a thing because it is still the performance of the man beneath all that hype. There are many bodybuilders on the juice but only one gets first place. The juice does not guarantee a win. You'll look better sometimes but looking good and actually fighting good have nothing to do with each other, once again it's the man inside the muscle not the one that is a wanna be and never could be or never was.

of course...more so with him because its so rare for his country to have a boxing icon...imagine a boxing hero and a congressman at that juicing? That is why i dont believe the guy is on that shit. Hell, its basic logic..put yourself in his shoes. You have evrything in the world... would you risk ruining it all? Even urine testing could exposed you given its not entirely effective- more so with blood testing. Point is..if .pac is juicing..he wont even agree to a compromised blood testing.

One thing that makes me believe that Pac is not juicing is the fact that he continues to fight.

The best way to stop this talk of him being on PEDS is for him to retire now that he had agreed to the drug test but Floyd didn't accept the challenge. He has all the reasons to retire. Mayweather doesn't want to fight him. He already reached that point in his career wherein there is nothing else to prove. He already has the money that will sustain him in his lifetime.

So why continue to fight and risk getting caught of juicing? It's knowing there is no risk of getting caught because he isn't juicing.

Pac aint on shit, funny how people hate floyd yet are so influenced by the crap that comes out of his mouth.