Fighters who lost the generational hand over fight

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10-10-2011, 04:40 PM
piye

Fighters who lost the generational hand over fight

Rocky Marciano beat Joe Louis
Mike Tyson Beat Larry Holmes
Floyd Mayweather and Pacman beat Oscar Delahoya
Hector Camacho beat Roberto Duran

What fighter lost this fight? and how did affect the career of said fighter.
10-10-2011, 10:36 PM
piye

Re: Fighters who lost the generational hand over fight

??? Anything ???
10-10-2011, 10:59 PM
THE THIRD MAN

Re: Fighters who lost the generational hand over fight

Interesting question:

Frazier V Ali 1 :The reason is, up until this fight Ali was considered unbeatable, the lay off for almost 3 years would affect him and the world had changed dramatically in that short time. The world of boxing changed completely after that fight. It took Ali three and a half years to regain the title.

Arguello V Olivares : The dynamo that was Ruben Olivares was stopped by Alexis Arguello after a great fight in November 1974 ( i had Olivares winning this up until round 12) the changing of the guard had arrived. Olivares had one last great win against Bobby Chacon some months later and that was it.

Leonard V Duran 2: This fight signaled the end of the aura of invincibility that Roberto Duran had in boxing circles for the previous 10 years. It was a strange, dramatic, puzzling and extremely disappointing result for a fighter who was already a legend by this time.

Hatton V Tszyu : The generational changeover that really didn't shock that many people, Hatton was 9 years younger than Tszyu who was injury prone and inactive for almost two and a half years with weight problems, fighting at home, with a local referee and he had the hunger. Tszyu approaching 36 was not going to win this fight.
10-10-2011, 11:54 PM
ono

Re: Fighters who lost the generational hand over fight

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

Interesting question:

Frazier V Ali 1 :The reason is, up until this fight Ali was considered unbeatable, the lay off for almost 3 years would affect him and the world had changed dramatically in that short time. The world of boxing changed completely after that fight. It took Ali three and a half years to regain the title.

Arguello V Olivares : The dynamo that was Ruben Olivares was stopped by Alexis Arguello after a great fight in November 1974 ( i had Olivares winning this up until round 12) the changing of the guard had arrived. Olivares had one last great win against Bobby Chacon some months later and that was it.

Leonard V Duran 2: This fight signaled the end of the aura of invincibility that Roberto Duran had in boxing circles for the previous 10 years. It was a strange, dramatic, puzzling and extremely disappointing result for a fighter who was already a legend by this time.

Hatton V Tszyu : The generational changeover that really didn't shock that many people, Hatton was 9 years younger than Tszyu who was injury prone and inactive for almost two and a half years with weight problems, fighting at home, with a local referee and he had the hunger. Tszyu approaching 36 was not going to win this fight.

Disagree with your assessment of Tszyu - Hatton. There was a poll in Boxing Monthly, where 35 Boxing experts had to pick a winner, and 34 of them went for Tszyu....who was ranked p4p #3 at the time.
10-11-2011, 12:10 AM
Kev

Re: Fighters who lost the generational hand over fight

Yeah Tszyu was a massive favourite in that fight.

Lacy getting stuffed by Calzaghe comes to mind.

Pavlik losing to Hopkins. Pascal losing to Hopkins, and who knows maybe Dawson losing to Hopkins.
10-11-2011, 12:14 AM
Kev

Re: Fighters who lost the generational hand over fight

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

Interesting question:

Frazier V Ali 1 :The reason is, up until this fight Ali was considered unbeatable, the lay off for almost 3 years would affect him and the world had changed dramatically in that short time. The world of boxing changed completely after that fight. It took Ali three and a half years to regain the title.

Arguello V Olivares : The dynamo that was Ruben Olivares was stopped by Alexis Arguello after a great fight in November 1974 ( i had Olivares winning this up until round 12) the changing of the guard had arrived. Olivares had one last great win against Bobby Chacon some months later and that was it.

Leonard V Duran 2: This fight signaled the end of the aura of invincibility that Roberto Duran had in boxing circles for the previous 10 years. It was a strange, dramatic, puzzling and extremely disappointing result for a fighter who was already a legend by this time.

Hatton V Tszyu : The generational changeover that really didn't shock that many people, Hatton was 9 years younger than Tszyu who was injury prone and inactive for almost two and a half years with weight problems, fighting at home, with a local referee and he had the hunger. Tszyu approaching 36 was not going to win this fight.

This list is strange. Not sure you understood the question. Duran fought for about 20 years after his loss to Leonard, how was it a generational handover? Plus the younger guy won the fight. :confused:

What he means is which fights, between the old warhorse and young heir elect actually to the surprise of everyone went the way of the old warhorse.
10-11-2011, 01:11 AM
Hulk

Re: Fighters who lost the generational hand over fight

Davey Moore getting battered by Roberto Duran would be a prime example.

James Toney beating the hell out of Vasily Jirov would be another.

And Lennox Lewis trouncing Michael Grant.

As well as when he beat Vitali Klitschko.
10-11-2011, 01:31 AM
CFH

Re: Fighters who lost the generational hand over fight

This is way too soon, but how about Andre Ward over Mikkel Kessler.
10-11-2011, 01:42 AM
THE THIRD MAN

Re: Fighters who lost the generational hand over fight

Quote:

Originally Posted by ono

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

Interesting question:

Frazier V Ali 1 :The reason is, up until this fight Ali was considered unbeatable, the lay off for almost 3 years would affect him and the world had changed dramatically in that short time. The world of boxing changed completely after that fight. It took Ali three and a half years to regain the title.

Arguello V Olivares : The dynamo that was Ruben Olivares was stopped by Alexis Arguello after a great fight in November 1974 ( i had Olivares winning this up until round 12) the changing of the guard had arrived. Olivares had one last great win against Bobby Chacon some months later and that was it.

Leonard V Duran 2: This fight signaled the end of the aura of invincibility that Roberto Duran had in boxing circles for the previous 10 years. It was a strange, dramatic, puzzling and extremely disappointing result for a fighter who was already a legend by this time.

Hatton V Tszyu : The generational changeover that really didn't shock that many people, Hatton was 9 years younger than Tszyu who was injury prone and inactive for almost two and a half years with weight problems, fighting at home, with a local referee and he had the hunger. Tszyu approaching 36 was not going to win this fight.

Disagree with your assessment of Tszyu - Hatton. There was a poll in Boxing Monthly, where 35 Boxing experts had to pick a winner, and 34 of them went for Tszyu....who was ranked p4p #3 at the time.

I can fully understand why they did too, his previous win was a stunning knockout over Mitchell in just 3 rounds. My point is i think people were clouded by that win, his first fight in almost 2 years and the fact he was approaching 36 all spelt danger to me. When i saw the weigh in i thought he was in trouble, he looked drawn and gaunt, it was no surprise that he didn't make it first go. Hatton was no bum and with age on his side and that real hunger and support in front of a home crowd Tszyu was doomed to failure.
It was definitely a generational handover and Hatton did well with it for couple of years before meeting PBF.
10-11-2011, 09:32 AM
ono

Re: Fighters who lost the generational hand over fight

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

Quote:

Originally Posted by ono

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

Interesting question:

Frazier V Ali 1 :The reason is, up until this fight Ali was considered unbeatable, the lay off for almost 3 years would affect him and the world had changed dramatically in that short time. The world of boxing changed completely after that fight. It took Ali three and a half years to regain the title.

Arguello V Olivares : The dynamo that was Ruben Olivares was stopped by Alexis Arguello after a great fight in November 1974 ( i had Olivares winning this up until round 12) the changing of the guard had arrived. Olivares had one last great win against Bobby Chacon some months later and that was it.

Leonard V Duran 2: This fight signaled the end of the aura of invincibility that Roberto Duran had in boxing circles for the previous 10 years. It was a strange, dramatic, puzzling and extremely disappointing result for a fighter who was already a legend by this time.

Hatton V Tszyu : The generational changeover that really didn't shock that many people, Hatton was 9 years younger than Tszyu who was injury prone and inactive for almost two and a half years with weight problems, fighting at home, with a local referee and he had the hunger. Tszyu approaching 36 was not going to win this fight.

Disagree with your assessment of Tszyu - Hatton. There was a poll in Boxing Monthly, where 35 Boxing experts had to pick a winner, and 34 of them went for Tszyu....who was ranked p4p #3 at the time.

I can fully understand why they did too, his previous win was a stunning knockout over Mitchell in just 3 rounds. My point is i think people were clouded by that win, his first fight in almost 2 years and the fact he was approaching 36 all spelt danger to me. When i saw the weigh in i thought he was in trouble, he looked drawn and gaunt, it was no surprise that he didn't make it first go. Hatton was no bum and with age on his side and that real hunger and support in front of a home crowd Tszyu was doomed to failure.
It was definitely a generational handover and Hatton did well with it for couple of years before meeting PBF.

Yeah but you said it didn't shock many people ;D
10-11-2011, 03:43 PM
BIG H

Re: Fighters who lost the generational hand over fight

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

Quote:

Originally Posted by ono

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

Interesting question:

Frazier V Ali 1 :The reason is, up until this fight Ali was considered unbeatable, the lay off for almost 3 years would affect him and the world had changed dramatically in that short time. The world of boxing changed completely after that fight. It took Ali three and a half years to regain the title.

Arguello V Olivares : The dynamo that was Ruben Olivares was stopped by Alexis Arguello after a great fight in November 1974 ( i had Olivares winning this up until round 12) the changing of the guard had arrived. Olivares had one last great win against Bobby Chacon some months later and that was it.

Leonard V Duran 2: This fight signaled the end of the aura of invincibility that Roberto Duran had in boxing circles for the previous 10 years. It was a strange, dramatic, puzzling and extremely disappointing result for a fighter who was already a legend by this time.

Hatton V Tszyu : The generational changeover that really didn't shock that many people, Hatton was 9 years younger than Tszyu who was injury prone and inactive for almost two and a half years with weight problems, fighting at home, with a local referee and he had the hunger. Tszyu approaching 36 was not going to win this fight.

Disagree with your assessment of Tszyu - Hatton. There was a poll in Boxing Monthly, where 35 Boxing experts had to pick a winner, and 34 of them went for Tszyu....who was ranked p4p #3 at the time.

I can fully understand why they did too, his previous win was a stunning knockout over Mitchell in just 3 rounds. My point is i think people were clouded by that win, his first fight in almost 2 years and the fact he was approaching 36 all spelt danger to me. When i saw the weigh in i thought he was in trouble, he looked drawn and gaunt, it was no surprise that he didn't make it first go. Hatton was no bum and with age on his side and that real hunger and support in front of a home crowd Tszyu was doomed to failure.
It was definitely a generational handover and Hatton did well with it for couple of years before meeting PBF.

Not sure how much being 36 has to do with anything? He had had less fights than Hatton and no real wars! You could say that the inactivity was a nice rest. Anyway, it wasn't like he was out for 5 years like SRL against Hagler, he fought once in 2003, once in 2004 and once in 2005. If he was old and suffering from inactivity I think it would've showed in the fight that was less than 7 months earlier (Mitchell) I mean what exactly happened in those 7 months that took Tszyu from arguably his best win, to being old and bound to lose to Hatton :-\
10-11-2011, 04:25 PM
Otley

Re: Fighters who lost the generational hand over fight

Pavlik v Hopkins

&

Hopkins v Pascal

Job Biscuit (That Hopkins has alot to say about himself)!!!

eh eh!!!
10-11-2011, 04:37 PM
Fenster

Re: Fighters who lost the generational hand over fight

Pretty sure Fernando Vargas was favourite against Tito. He never won a big fight after that.
10-11-2011, 04:49 PM
brocktonblockbust

Re: Fighters who lost the generational hand over fight

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenster

Pretty sure Fernando Vargas was favourite against Tito. He never won a big fight after that.

Rubbish. Trinidad was a 7-5 favorite in the pay-per-view (TVKO) match.

CNNSI.com - Boxing - Vargas vs. Trinidad - Fighters make final preparations before fight - Friday December 29, 2000 12:36 AM
10-11-2011, 04:52 PM
erics44

Re: Fighters who lost the generational hand over fight

robin reid v carl froch
10-11-2011, 05:00 PM
Fenster

Re: Fighters who lost the generational hand over fight

Quote:

Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenster

Pretty sure Fernando Vargas was favourite against Tito. He never won a big fight after that.

Rubbish. Trinidad was a 7-5 favorite in the pay-per-view (TVKO) match.

CNNSI.com - Boxing - Vargas vs. Trinidad - Fighters make final preparations before fight - Friday December 29, 2000 12:36 AM

Does that make sense? 7-5 is odds against.

Thanks anyway. I knew the betting was tight. The young unexposed guy was well fancied.
10-11-2011, 05:15 PM
Master

Re: Fighters who lost the generational hand over fight

Holmes beating Mercer

Oscar beating JCC superstar
Toney beating McCallum
Norris beating Leonard
10-12-2011, 11:26 AM
piye

Re: Fighters who lost the generational hand over fight

Some good answers hopkins is like that old guy that just refuses to quit! How many of these fighters could have been greats if developed properly and if that old miserable outstanding champion didn't beat them up? lol.
10-12-2011, 10:24 PM
Spicoli

Re: Fighters who lost the generational hand over fight

Carbajal vs Arce....never say never. Hearns over Hill. Any handfull of Glen Johnson fights ;D
10-12-2011, 10:50 PM
THE THIRD MAN

Re: Fighters who lost the generational hand over fight

[QUOTE=Bilbo;1015682]

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

Interesting question:

Frazier V Ali 1 :The reason is, up until this fight Ali was considered unbeatable, the lay off for almost 3 years would affect him and the world had changed dramatically in that short time. The world of boxing changed completely after that fight. It took Ali three and a half years to regain the title.

Arguello V Olivares : The dynamo that was Ruben Olivares was stopped by Alexis Arguello after a great fight in November 1974 ( i had Olivares winning this up until round 12) the changing of the guard had arrived. Olivares had one last great win against Bobby Chacon some months later and that was it.

Leonard V Duran 2: This fight signaled the end of the aura of invincibility that Roberto Duran had in boxing circles for the previous 10 years. It was a strange, dramatic, puzzling and extremely disappointing result for a fighter who was already a legend by this time.

Hatton V Tszyu : The generational changeover that really didn't shock that many people, Hatton was 9 years younger than Tszyu who was injury prone and inactive for almost two and a half years with weight problems, fighting at home, with a local referee and he had the hunger. Tszyu approaching 36 was not going to win this fight.

This list is strange. Not sure you understood the question. Duran fought for about 20 years after his loss to Leonard, how was it a generational handover? Plus the younger guy won the fight. :confused:

What he means is which fights, between the old warhorse and young heir elect actually to the surprise of everyone went the way of the old warhorse.[/QUOTE]

Not according to the opening post on the thread, Marciano KO'd Louis, Tyson KO'd Holmes, that means the younger guy beat the old warhorse.

As for Duran, should he have fought on for another 20 years? Duran is arguably the greatest fighter of the 1970's, is he on your list of the greatest fighters of the 1980's? After Leonard 2 Duran lost to every A list fighter he fought, Benitez, Hearns and Hagler and then lost to some fighters not good enough to carry his gym bag 10 years earlier. Duran handed over the generational baton with No Mas. Duran was at his peak in the 70's, he gave us one last peak performance in Montreal then the generational changeover took place. I actually think this is the most significant changeover of them all. The fact is Duran hung around the periphery in the 1980's.
10-12-2011, 11:04 PM
piye

Re: Fighters who lost the generational hand over fight

[QUOTE=THE THIRD MAN;1016214]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilbo

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

Interesting question:

Frazier V Ali 1 :The reason is, up until this fight Ali was considered unbeatable, the lay off for almost 3 years would affect him and the world had changed dramatically in that short time. The world of boxing changed completely after that fight. It took Ali three and a half years to regain the title.

Arguello V Olivares : The dynamo that was Ruben Olivares was stopped by Alexis Arguello after a great fight in November 1974 ( i had Olivares winning this up until round 12) the changing of the guard had arrived. Olivares had one last great win against Bobby Chacon some months later and that was it.

Leonard V Duran 2: This fight signaled the end of the aura of invincibility that Roberto Duran had in boxing circles for the previous 10 years. It was a strange, dramatic, puzzling and extremely disappointing result for a fighter who was already a legend by this time.

Hatton V Tszyu : The generational changeover that really didn't shock that many people, Hatton was 9 years younger than Tszyu who was injury prone and inactive for almost two and a half years with weight problems, fighting at home, with a local referee and he had the hunger. Tszyu approaching 36 was not going to win this fight.

This list is strange. Not sure you understood the question. Duran fought for about 20 years after his loss to Leonard, how was it a generational handover? Plus the younger guy won the fight. :confused:

What he means is which fights, between the old warhorse and young heir elect actually to the surprise of everyone went the way of the old warhorse.[/QUOTE]

Not according to the opening post on the thread, Marciano KO'd Louis, Tyson KO'd Holmes, that means the younger guy beat the old warhorse.

As for Duran, should he have fought on for another 20 years? Duran is arguably the greatest fighter of the 1970's, is he on your list of the greatest fighters of the 1980's? After Leonard 2 Duran lost to every A list fighter he fought, Benitez, Hearns and Hagler and then lost to some fighters not good enough to carry his gym bag 10 years earlier. Duran handed over the generational baton with No Mas. Duran was at his peak in the 70's, he gave us one last peak performance in Montreal then the generational changeover took place. I actually think this is the most significant changeover of them all. The fact is Duran hung around the periphery in the 1980's.

Sorry maybe I didn't explain myself well I gave examples of handoer fights won but the post was who are guys that lost this fight like Lewis Klitscho etc.
10-13-2011, 05:40 AM
Mr140

Re: Fighters who lost the generational hand over fight

Think the Foreman ko over Moore was a one i think was his first lose and maybe took some steam out of him and Holyfeild took what ever was left in the rematch. Not sure how Moore would done with that chin it was pretty shit and might of cost him some fights like it did anyway even if he won.