Just watched the 2nd Pacman/Marquez fight. JMM fans must have blinders on

Don't get me wrong, this was a good fight, but Manny won this hands down guys. Marquez was knocked down, had 2 bad cuts (both caused by punches) was wobbled atleast 3 times, and the ref had to stop the fight twice for the dr. to look at Marquez, and Marquez landed 2 low blows in the 10th and 11th. Marquez fought a hell of a fight, but he DID NOT win that fight guys. I know that judge named Roth thought he won, and so did Larry Merchant. Other than Die Hard Marquez fans, thats where it stops. I do think that fight merits a 3rd fight which is why I'm glad its happening. But I had Manny 7 rounds to 5. Add in the knockdown along with everything. No "controversy" for me here.

If I remember correctly I had the fight even but with the extra point for the knockdown Manny wins the fight. Most JMM fans complain about that round. Marquez had won most of the round but then got knocked down. It's still a 10-8 round.

I was lucky enough to see the 1st fight live and I thought JMM won more rounds than Manny but when you're in a 10-6 hole to start the fight and down 20-15 after the 2nd round it doesn't matter. He hasn't won either of the first two time they fought and will lose again next Saturday IMO.

I had it 115-112 Marquez (I think), but a lot of the rounds were close.

You must have had your blinkers on I had JMM winning but it was close.

I think Marquez won both fights by a round so not a massive robbery but I think he should be 2-0 up and infact he is 0-1-1.

I think Pac puts it beyond doubt this time. They were very well matched in technical skills for Marquez vs physical attributes for Pac. Tactically Marquez seemed to have Pacs number and was able to time him but not at welterweight. Only concern for Pac is that he has lost his killer instinct and lets Marquez get through the rounds.

Marquez won both fights, anyone who says that Pacquiao won hands down are smoking rocks

You must have your pom pom with a matching pacman shirt and shoes cuz I had Marquez winning, clearly..

Anyone who thinks Marquez won both fights are talking absolute shit ;D.He has been running his mouth of for ages saying he won both bouts , and he has got his wish now with the 3rd fight, oh dear what a massive mistake:cool: this piss drinking midget will take a savage beating , Manny has way too many tools for him 8 or 9 round stoppage easy win for PacMan:dance:

pom pom :cheerleader: love it haha I go with Marquez for fight 2.;D

I watched both fights twice and had it the same

1st fight- 114-111 Pacman
2nd fight- 114-113 Pacman

2nd fight could have gone either way . Knockdowns made the difference imo. 4-0 for Pacman;)

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Originally Posted by gest12645

I watched both fights twice and had it the same

1st fight- 114-111 Pacman
2nd fight- 114-113 Pacman

2nd fight could have gone either way . Knockdowns made the difference imo. 4-0 for Pacman;)

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1st fight- 115-111 Marquez
2nd fight- 115-113 Marquez

You need your eyes tested because every fan admits it was close and that Marquez did more than enough to earn a decision.

Noone won either of their fights hands down, and that's why they are fighting a third time. Only fanboys of either guy really make it out that there was a definitive outcome, I thought Marquez won quite a few more rounds in the last fight and deserved to just edge it but obviously the knockdowns were huge in both fights. '
I dont however think the rubber match will be all that close unfortunatly, Marquez is to shopworn and much less effective than Pacquiao above lightweight.

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Originally Posted by p4pking

Noone won either of their fights hands down, and that's why they are fighting a third time. Only fanboys of either guy really make it out that there was a definitive outcome, I thought Marquez won quite a few more rounds in the last fight and deserved to just edge it but obviously the knockdowns were huge in both fights. '
I dont however think the rubber match will be all that close unfortunatly, Marquez is to shopworn and much less effective than Pacquiao above lightweight.

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I had money on Pac for the 2nd fight. I still scored it for Marquez. Too bad the 3rd fight didn't happen 2 years ago. I think Marquez has slipped a little bit while Pac has improved.

I have a different winner each time I watch the first fight. It was that close and in now way a robbery. I rewatched it last night on demand and had Marquez slightly edging it.

The second fight I always have Pacquiao winning but by the slimmest of margins. Again, no way a robbery.

I'm pretty sure I've said this exact post for the 100th time. It always keeps coming back!

I had JMM winning 114-113 if I remember correctly

It's been a while since i have seen the fights but i'm pretty sure i had the first fight even. As it's the second fight thats up for discussion I'm going to watch it today and come back with my score.

Incredible as it seems I was happy with the draw for the first fight, what an effort so I won't spoil it by analyzing it too much. The second was like the first but Manny was intense and JMM was relentless enough to lose a close decision. I favor Marquez but Manny won the second fight squeaky clean. Let's forget those two fights and deal with reality. Someone slipped and someone improved. This fight is about who wants it more. Some of us will be surprised and some will say, "I told you so."

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Originally Posted by armyash

It's been a while since i have seen the fights but i'm pretty sure i had the first fight even. As it's the second fight thats up for discussion I'm going to watch it today and come back with my score.

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Me too.

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

Marquez won both fights, anyone who says that Pacquiao won hands down are smoking rocks

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Lol...you can't be serious. I've said this time and time again. One of the most important rules to winning a fight...stay off your ass. Marquez can't ever seem to do that when he fights Manny. They were close fights, but to say anyone that has Manny winning is smoking rocks? Well, I think you were one of the people encompassed in the title of this thread.

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Originally Posted by 15rounder

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

Marquez won both fights, anyone who says that Pacquiao won hands down are smoking rocks

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Lol...you can't be serious. I've said this time and time again. One of the most important rules to winning a fight...stay off your ass. Marquez can't ever seem to do that when he fights Manny. They were close fights, but to say anyone that has Manny winning is smoking rocks? Well, I think you were one of the people encompassed in the title of this thread.

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Yeah I agree 100%, hard to complain you won 2 fights when you were CLEARLY knocked down 4 times and ROCKED HARD on other occasions during both fights!!! :lickish:

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Originally Posted by jdonaher1

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Originally Posted by 15rounder

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

Marquez won both fights, anyone who says that Pacquiao won hands down are smoking rocks

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Lol...you can't be serious. I've said this time and time again. One of the most important rules to winning a fight...stay off your ass. Marquez can't ever seem to do that when he fights Manny. They were close fights, but to say anyone that has Manny winning is smoking rocks? Well, I think you were one of the people encompassed in the title of this thread.

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Yeah I agree 100%, hard to complain you won 2 fights when you were CLEARLY knocked down 4 times and ROCKED HARD on other occasions during both fights!!! :lickish:

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Manny was clearly outboxed in most of the rounds, and Marquez himself ROCKED MANNY HARD on several occasions, KD's just add a point to a round, the fact that Manny barely won on paper even with 4 KD's combined shows how much of a better technician Marquez is than Pacquiao

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

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Originally Posted by jdonaher1

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Originally Posted by 15rounder

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

Marquez won both fights, anyone who says that Pacquiao won hands down are smoking rocks

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Lol...you can't be serious. I've said this time and time again. One of the most important rules to winning a fight...stay off your ass. Marquez can't ever seem to do that when he fights Manny. They were close fights, but to say anyone that has Manny winning is smoking rocks? Well, I think you were one of the people encompassed in the title of this thread.

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Yeah I agree 100%, hard to complain you won 2 fights when you were CLEARLY knocked down 4 times and ROCKED HARD on other occasions during both fights!!! :lickish:

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Manny was clearly outboxed in most of the rounds, and Marquez himself ROCKED MANNY HARD on several occasions, KD's just add a point to a round, the fact that Manny barely won on paper even with 4 KD's combined shows how much of a better technician Marquez is than Pacquiao

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Yup its official. When it comes to this matchup you clearly are only watching one man fight and wishing he was better. Unfortunately your boy cant stay off his behind. It's good that he finally realized that he shouldn't drink his piss. Maybe he thinks eating his own crap will help him adjust to the weight gain. LOL. Didn't happen in the previous two fights, won't happen here bro. Sorry.

When I first saw both fights I thought Pacquiao won the first and Marquez won the second.

Rewatching them both I think Marquez won both fights.

However there's no doubt in my mind that Marquez is going to lose Saturday. He may get dropped and come back and win but it's against less opposition like Katsidis.

Put that on top of the fact that Marquez has to fight at Welterweight against a natural welterweight Pacquiao. If Pacquiao loses this fight then he is more overhyped than imaginable. This fight is giftwrapped for him to win. He has a slipping Marquez two weight classes above his average, it's the easiest version of Marquez he'll ever face, if he loses then it's going to be very bad. I go as far as to say if it's a close fight it ruins any mystique on a Mayweather fight. If Pacquiao doesn't start to dominate after 2 or 3 rounds, there's a problem. These are the fights he's supposed to win.

Marquez is an all time great and a hall of famer, but he's slipped, he's on the downward spiral, he's winning but he isn't the Marquez that gave Pacquiao hell for two fights this is the Marquez who has looked okay in his last few fights, but he's being setup to lose this fight.

I'll be shocked if this fight goes the distance, and even more shocked if Pacquiao loses.

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Originally Posted by Majesty

When I first saw both fights I thought Pacquiao won the first and Marquez won the second.

Rewatching them both I think Marquez won both fights.

However there's no doubt in my mind that Marquez is going to lose Saturday. He may get dropped and come back and win but it's against less opposition like Katsidis.

Put that on top of the fact that Marquez has to fight at Welterweight against a natural welterweight Pacquiao. If Pacquiao loses this fight then he is more overhyped than imaginable. This fight is giftwrapped for him to win. He has a slipping Marquez two weight classes above his average, it's the easiest version of Marquez he'll ever face, if he loses then it's going to be very bad. I go as far as to say if it's a close fight it ruins any mystique on a Mayweather fight. If Pacquiao doesn't start to dominate after 2 or 3 rounds, there's a problem. These are the fights he's supposed to win.

Marquez is an all time great and a hall of famer, but he's slipped, he's on the downward spiral, he's winning but he isn't the Marquez that gave Pacquiao hell for two fights this is the Marquez who has looked okay in his last few fights, but he's being setup to lose this fight.

I'll be shocked if this fight goes the distance, and even more shocked if Pacquiao loses.

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I disagree with that. If Pacquiao loses this fight, and I agree that he won't, it will in no way diminish his previous accomplishments. Regardless of what happens from this point forward, he will go down as an ATG and the best fighter of his era.

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Originally Posted by Majesty

When I first saw both fights I thought Pacquiao won the first and Marquez won the second.

Rewatching them both I think Marquez won both fights.

However there's no doubt in my mind that Marquez is going to lose Saturday. He may get dropped and come back and win but it's against less opposition like Katsidis.

Put that on top of the fact that Marquez has to fight at Welterweight against a natural welterweight Pacquiao. If Pacquiao loses this fight then he is more overhyped than imaginable. This fight is giftwrapped for him to win. He has a slipping Marquez two weight classes above his average, it's the easiest version of Marquez he'll ever face, if he loses then it's going to be very bad. I go as far as to say if it's a close fight it ruins any mystique on a Mayweather fight. If Pacquiao doesn't start to dominate after 2 or 3 rounds, there's a problem. These are the fights he's supposed to win.

Marquez is an all time great and a hall of famer, but he's slipped, he's on the downward spiral, he's winning but he isn't the Marquez that gave Pacquiao hell for two fights this is the Marquez who has looked okay in his last few fights, but he's being setup to lose this fight.

I'll be shocked if this fight goes the distance, and even more shocked if Pacquiao loses.

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If it's a close fight, then we would be closer to a Pacquiao-Mayweather fight. Floyd will be clamoring to fight Manny even without a drug test.

If you win a fight by dumping the other guy on his ass, then sure Pac won both 100%. BUT THATS NOT HOW BOXING IS SCORED. Some people seem to fail to see this somehow. I think these are the same people who just watch fights and decide who they think won at the end without scoring round by round.

Both fights are razor thin.

I had the 1st a draw and the second Marquez by 1pt FWIW.

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Originally Posted by J_C

If you win a fight by dumping the other guy on his ass, then sure Pac won both 100%. BUT THATS NOT HOW BOXING IS SCORED. Some people seem to fail to see this somehow. I think these are the same people who just watch fights and decide who they think won at the end without scoring round by round.

Both fights are razor thin.

I had the 1st a draw and the second Marquez by 1pt FWIW.

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Their 2 fights were really very close that it could have gone to either fighter. But if we are going to go by the statement that is highlighted up here, then we all know that boxing is scored by the official judges whose scores are the only ones that matters. And it's a draw and a win for Pacquiao ...... case closed.

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Originally Posted by CFH

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Originally Posted by Majesty

When I first saw both fights I thought Pacquiao won the first and Marquez won the second.

Rewatching them both I think Marquez won both fights.

However there's no doubt in my mind that Marquez is going to lose Saturday. He may get dropped and come back and win but it's against less opposition like Katsidis.

Put that on top of the fact that Marquez has to fight at Welterweight against a natural welterweight Pacquiao. If Pacquiao loses this fight then he is more overhyped than imaginable. This fight is giftwrapped for him to win. He has a slipping Marquez two weight classes above his average, it's the easiest version of Marquez he'll ever face, if he loses then it's going to be very bad. I go as far as to say if it's a close fight it ruins any mystique on a Mayweather fight. If Pacquiao doesn't start to dominate after 2 or 3 rounds, there's a problem. These are the fights he's supposed to win.

Marquez is an all time great and a hall of famer, but he's slipped, he's on the downward spiral, he's winning but he isn't the Marquez that gave Pacquiao hell for two fights this is the Marquez who has looked okay in his last few fights, but he's being setup to lose this fight.

I'll be shocked if this fight goes the distance, and even more shocked if Pacquiao loses.

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I disagree with that. If Pacquiao loses this fight, and I agree that he won't, it will in no way diminish his previous accomplishments. Regardless of what happens from this point forward, he will go down as an ATG and the best fighter of his era.

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I'm sorry, but how can you say he would be the best fighter of his era after whooping a few husks Mayweather already dominated (DLH, Hatton, Mosley), one clumsy turtle (Clottey), one broken warrior (Cotto) and one (comparatively) lively fighter coming off the most devastating loss of his career (Margacheato), and losing to a guy who is past his prime and two weight classes higher than he should ever have gone? There is no winning in this fight for Pacman, anyone who knows anything about boxing knows this fight has only been made now, at welterweight, because Roach and Pacman knew it was their only chance to avenge the masterclasses Marquez dished out to Pac in their first two fights.

Pacman is possibly the most over-hyped fighter ever, he hasn't done anything special in a long time. His only truly great wins are over Barrera and Morales, since I don't believe for a minute that he beat Marquez in their first two fights. In consideration of this, I totally agree that losing to Marquez this Saturday would retard his current apotheosis dramatically. Then again so many people are on Pacquiao's dick at this point the nutt-hugging media propagandists who are responsible for his global standing might just be able to sell it as a freak 'incident' to the mass of the public. Those looking in on events with any measure of objectivity will not be fooled.

Has it occurred to anyone else watching the latest 24/7 that the reason Pac has been so riled by Marquez's claims of winning the previous two bouts is he knows it's true, and that he is training harder than ever because deep down there is a little nagging doubt that tells him no matter how hard he tried in the past, this guy just kept getting up and outboxing him in front of the world? I'm not by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that Pac is scared he will lose to Marquez at this point, but I think he is well aware his legacy could be well and truly tarnished by even a poor performance against JMM. A split decision ain't gonna cut it at this point, and it seems obvious to me that the extra motivation I've seen in Pac's training this time round denotes the insecurities he has regarding his ability - even at this stage, with his marked improvements, and Marquez's marked decline - to tackle a truly great boxer.

None of the guys Pac has fought (we'll exclude the weight drained zombie that was DLH) had the technical ability to time him and exert superior boxing skills upon him, they were mostly come forward fighters who were either psychologically weak (I think a strong case can be made for some of them having lost the fight before they stepped in the ring, but that's a matter for another time...) or simply did not have the ability to deal with his hand speed, exceptional lateral movement and endurance. However, it may all be a moot point, since, despite my love of Marquez (a true warrior and boxing technician) I think he has a snowball's chance in hell at this stage of his career, though I pray he can pull out one last great performance and finally get the win he deserves, and seal his legacy as arguably the greatest Mexican fighter of all time.

On another note, it's a real shame Pacquiao isn't doing anything currently to elevate himself in the annals of the sport. I mean, at this point, after working with Roach for the best part of a decade, he has a pretty great skillset, at least offensively - his lateral movement and use of the right hand as a southpaw are particularly impressive - and traditionally he has had the balls to take on the best, yet the last few years have seen him resting very heavily on his laurels. I hate to bring up the Mayweather fight again, but tbh, and to go back to the reason for my response, it's the only fight that could really make him 'the fighter of his era'. If that fight is made and he beats Mayweather then we can make that claim, but if he carries on fighting guys who should not really present that many problems for him, he could go down as someone who was seemingly great and yet never did everything in their power to prove it, but was more committed to being a commercial and political success than mastering the craft which gave him the opportunity to pursue his many other earthly pleasures.

On that note, I'm done with this thread...

i watched them both again....

scored it 113-112 pacquiao in the first.
and 114-113 pacquiao in the second.

if only marquez had heavier hands. he was much more technically strong and connected with shots that if harder, probably would have ko'd pac.

marquez won more rounds but i saw pacquiao scoring higher.

(and i like marquez more than i like pacquiao)

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by gest12645

I watched both fights twice and had it the same

1st fight- 114-111 Pacman
2nd fight- 114-113 Pacman

2nd fight could have gone either way . Knockdowns made the difference imo. 4-0 for Pacman;)

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1st fight- 115-111 Marquez
2nd fight- 115-113 Marquez

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how did JMM get to 115?

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Originally Posted by miron_lang

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by gest12645

I watched both fights twice and had it the same

1st fight- 114-111 Pacman
2nd fight- 114-113 Pacman

2nd fight could have gone either way . Knockdowns made the difference imo. 4-0 for Pacman;)

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1st fight- 115-111 Marquez
2nd fight- 115-113 Marquez

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how did JMM get to 115?

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With one knockdown recorded in the fight, the combined score should only equal to 227. Haha! VD missed this one... must've lost some expert points.:)

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Originally Posted by SRR

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Originally Posted by CFH

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Originally Posted by Majesty

When I first saw both fights I thought Pacquiao won the first and Marquez won the second.

Rewatching them both I think Marquez won both fights.

However there's no doubt in my mind that Marquez is going to lose Saturday. He may get dropped and come back and win but it's against less opposition like Katsidis.

Put that on top of the fact that Marquez has to fight at Welterweight against a natural welterweight Pacquiao. If Pacquiao loses this fight then he is more overhyped than imaginable. This fight is giftwrapped for him to win. He has a slipping Marquez two weight classes above his average, it's the easiest version of Marquez he'll ever face, if he loses then it's going to be very bad. I go as far as to say if it's a close fight it ruins any mystique on a Mayweather fight. If Pacquiao doesn't start to dominate after 2 or 3 rounds, there's a problem. These are the fights he's supposed to win.

Marquez is an all time great and a hall of famer, but he's slipped, he's on the downward spiral, he's winning but he isn't the Marquez that gave Pacquiao hell for two fights this is the Marquez who has looked okay in his last few fights, but he's being setup to lose this fight.

I'll be shocked if this fight goes the distance, and even more shocked if Pacquiao loses.

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I disagree with that. If Pacquiao loses this fight, and I agree that he won't, it will in no way diminish his previous accomplishments. Regardless of what happens from this point forward, he will go down as an ATG and the best fighter of his era.

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I'm sorry, but how can you say he would be the best fighter of his era after whooping a few husks Mayweather already dominated (DLH, Hatton, Mosley), one clumsy turtle (Clottey), one broken warrior (Cotto) and one (comparatively) lively fighter coming off the most devastating loss of his career (Margacheato), and losing to a guy who is past his prime and two weight classes higher than he should ever have gone? There is no winning in this fight for Pacman, anyone who knows anything about boxing knows this fight has only been made now, at welterweight, because Roach and Pacman knew it was their only chance to avenge the masterclasses Marquez dished out to Pac in their first two fights.

Pacman is possibly the most over-hyped fighter ever, he hasn't done anything special in a long time. His only truly great wins are over Barrera and Morales, since I don't believe for a minute that he beat Marquez in their first two fights. In consideration of this, I totally agree that losing to Marquez this Saturday would retard his current apotheosis dramatically. Then again so many people are on Pacquiao's dick at this point the nutt-hugging media propagandists who are responsible for his global standing might just be able to sell it as a freak 'incident' to the mass of the public. Those looking in on events with any measure of objectivity will not be fooled.

Has it occurred to anyone else watching the latest 24/7 that the reason Pac has been so riled by Marquez's claims of winning the previous two bouts is he knows it's true, and that he is training harder than ever because deep down there is a little nagging doubt that tells him no matter how hard he tried in the past, this guy just kept getting up and outboxing him in front of the world? I'm not by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that Pac is scared he will lose to Marquez at this point, but I think he is well aware his legacy could be well and truly tarnished by even a poor performance against JMM. A split decision ain't gonna cut it at this point, and it seems obvious to me that the extra motivation I've seen in Pac's training this time round denotes the insecurities he has regarding his ability - even at this stage, with his marked improvements, and Marquez's marked decline - to tackle a truly great boxer.

None of the guys Pac has fought (we'll exclude the weight drained zombie that was DLH) had the technical ability to time him and exert superior boxing skills upon him, they were mostly come forward fighters who were either psychologically weak (I think a strong case can be made for some of them having lost the fight before they stepped in the ring, but that's a matter for another time...) or simply did not have the ability to deal with his hand speed, exceptional lateral movement and endurance. However, it may all be a moot point, since, despite my love of Marquez (a true warrior and boxing technician) I think he has a snowball's chance in hell at this stage of his career, though I pray he can pull out one last great performance and finally get the win he deserves, and seal his legacy as arguably the greatest Mexican fighter of all time.

On another note, it's a real shame Pacquiao isn't doing anything currently to elevate himself in the annals of the sport. I mean, at this point, after working with Roach for the best part of a decade, he has a pretty great skillset, at least offensively - his lateral movement and use of the right hand as a southpaw are particularly impressive - and traditionally he has had the balls to take on the best, yet the last few years have seen him resting very heavily on his laurels. I hate to bring up the Mayweather fight again, but tbh, and to go back to the reason for my response, it's the only fight that could really make him 'the fighter of his era'. If that fight is made and he beats Mayweather then we can make that claim, but if he carries on fighting guys who should not really present that many problems for him, he could go down as someone who was seemingly great and yet never did everything in their power to prove it, but was more committed to being a commercial and political success than mastering the craft which gave him the opportunity to pursue his many other earthly pleasures.

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Could not disagree more with this post. WOW

Also, its looking like Marquez has gone the route of adding power at the expense of speed. He looks a little bulked up. Which is fine if you want to go that way. But I would'nt be sacrificing an ounce of speed when I'm about to fight Pac. Who knows though, maybe he catches him, but I can't see it happening right now. And whats this im hearing about Marquez's strength coach with a checkered past?

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Originally Posted by SRR

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Originally Posted by CFH

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Originally Posted by Majesty

When I first saw both fights I thought Pacquiao won the first and Marquez won the second.

Rewatching them both I think Marquez won both fights.

However there's no doubt in my mind that Marquez is going to lose Saturday. He may get dropped and come back and win but it's against less opposition like Katsidis.

Put that on top of the fact that Marquez has to fight at Welterweight against a natural welterweight Pacquiao. If Pacquiao loses this fight then he is more overhyped than imaginable. This fight is giftwrapped for him to win. He has a slipping Marquez two weight classes above his average, it's the easiest version of Marquez he'll ever face, if he loses then it's going to be very bad. I go as far as to say if it's a close fight it ruins any mystique on a Mayweather fight. If Pacquiao doesn't start to dominate after 2 or 3 rounds, there's a problem. These are the fights he's supposed to win.

Marquez is an all time great and a hall of famer, but he's slipped, he's on the downward spiral, he's winning but he isn't the Marquez that gave Pacquiao hell for two fights this is the Marquez who has looked okay in his last few fights, but he's being setup to lose this fight.

I'll be shocked if this fight goes the distance, and even more shocked if Pacquiao loses.

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I disagree with that. If Pacquiao loses this fight, and I agree that he won't, it will in no way diminish his previous accomplishments. Regardless of what happens from this point forward, he will go down as an ATG and the best fighter of his era.

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I'm sorry, but how can you say he would be the best fighter of his era after whooping a few husks Mayweather already dominated (DLH, Hatton, Mosley), one clumsy turtle (Clottey), one broken warrior (Cotto) and one (comparatively) lively fighter coming off the most devastating loss of his career (Margacheato), and losing to a guy who is past his prime and two weight classes higher than he should ever have gone? There is no winning in this fight for Pacman, anyone who knows anything about boxing knows this fight has only been made now, at welterweight, because Roach and Pacman knew it was their only chance to avenge the masterclasses Marquez dished out to Pac in their first two fights.

Pacman is possibly the most over-hyped fighter ever, he hasn't done anything special in a long time. His only truly great wins are over Barrera and Morales, since I don't believe for a minute that he beat Marquez in their first two fights. In consideration of this, I totally agree that losing to Marquez this Saturday would retard his current apotheosis dramatically. Then again so many people are on Pacquiao's dick at this point the nutt-hugging media propagandists who are responsible for his global standing might just be able to sell it as a freak 'incident' to the mass of the public. Those looking in on events with any measure of objectivity will not be fooled.

Has it occurred to anyone else watching the latest 24/7 that the reason Pac has been so riled by Marquez's claims of winning the previous two bouts is he knows it's true, and that he is training harder than ever because deep down there is a little nagging doubt that tells him no matter how hard he tried in the past, this guy just kept getting up and outboxing him in front of the world? I'm not by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that Pac is scared he will lose to Marquez at this point, but I think he is well aware his legacy could be well and truly tarnished by even a poor performance against JMM. A split decision ain't gonna cut it at this point, and it seems obvious to me that the extra motivation I've seen in Pac's training this time round denotes the insecurities he has regarding his ability - even at this stage, with his marked improvements, and Marquez's marked decline - to tackle a truly great boxer.

None of the guys Pac has fought (we'll exclude the weight drained zombie that was DLH) had the technical ability to time him and exert superior boxing skills upon him, they were mostly come forward fighters who were either psychologically weak (I think a strong case can be made for some of them having lost the fight before they stepped in the ring, but that's a matter for another time...) or simply did not have the ability to deal with his hand speed, exceptional lateral movement and endurance. However, it may all be a moot point, since, despite my love of Marquez (a true warrior and boxing technician) I think he has a snowball's chance in hell at this stage of his career, though I pray he can pull out one last great performance and finally get the win he deserves, and seal his legacy as arguably the greatest Mexican fighter of all time.

On another note, it's a real shame Pacquiao isn't doing anything currently to elevate himself in the annals of the sport. I mean, at this point, after working with Roach for the best part of a decade, he has a pretty great skillset, at least offensively - his lateral movement and use of the right hand as a southpaw are particularly impressive - and traditionally he has had the balls to take on the best, yet the last few years have seen him resting very heavily on his laurels. I hate to bring up the Mayweather fight again, but tbh, and to go back to the reason for my response, it's the only fight that could really make him 'the fighter of his era'. If that fight is made and he beats Mayweather then we can make that claim, but if he carries on fighting guys who should not really present that many problems for him, he could go down as someone who was seemingly great and yet never did everything in their power to prove it, but was more committed to being a commercial and political success than mastering the craft which gave him the opportunity to pursue his many other earthly pleasures.

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I couldn't disagree more with this post. I'm no Pactard either.

I had Manny winning the fight because of the second KD...

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/5531/pac2oz1.gif

15rounder, why do you start a thread pretending to want to discuss the matter.......but whenever people have a different opinion they are ignorant??




Please discuss. ;D

You have brought up some valid points and it would be a formidable task for anyone to even contradict any of them but I will try.

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Originally Posted by SRR

I'm sorry, but how can you say he would be the best fighter of his era after whooping a few husks Mayweather already dominated (DLH Floyd didn't dominate DLH , Hatton at the weight Ricky is not used to, Mosley agree and Manny had no reason besides financial to fight Shane), one clumsy turtle (Clottey) who did not want to get hit so Pacquiao made him clumsy, one broken warrior (Cotto) who was competitve the first few rounds until he was knocked down, is it possible that Pacquiao broke him down in that fight? and one (comparatively) lively fighter coming off the most devastating loss of his career (Margacheato) who can still give most boxers in his division the fits, and losing to a guy who is past his prime and two weight classes higher than he should ever have gone if Manny loses to Marquez, then you're probably right? There is no winning in this fight for Pacman, anyone who knows anything about boxing knows this fight has only been made now, at welterweight, because Roach and Pacman knew it was their only chance to avenge the masterclasses Marquez dished out to Pac in their first two fights. The Pacquiao-Marquez bout is a fight wherein Manny has something to lose and nothing to gain.

Pacman is possibly the most over-hyped fighter ever, he hasn't done anything special in a long time. His only truly great wins are over Barrera and Morales, since I don't believe for a minute that he beat Marquez in their first two fights. The fight was so close that it could have gone either way. So, yes, it isn't a convincing win for Pacquiao. It would not likewise have been convincing for Marquez had he won it. In consideration of this, I totally agree that losing to Marquez this Saturday would retard his current apotheosis dramatically. Agree. Then again so many people are on Pacquiao's dick at this point the nutt-hugging media propagandists who are responsible for his global standing might just be able to sell it as a freak 'incident' to the mass of the public. Those looking in on events with any measure of objectivity will not be fooled.

Has it occurred to anyone else watching the latest 24/7 that the reason Pac has been so riled by Marquez's claims of winning the previous two bouts is he knows it's true, or that Manny knows he did not win convincingly and that he is training harder than ever because deep down there is a little nagging doubt that tells him no matter how hard he tried in the past, this guy just kept getting up and outboxing him in front of the world? or that he does not want to leave the outcome of this bout to chance I'm not by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that Pac is scared he will lose to Marquez at this point, but I think he is well aware his legacy could be well and truly tarnished by even a poor performance against JMM. A lose will definitely tarnish Pac's legacy. A split decision ain't gonna cut it at this point nor is a unanimous decision if it's close, and it seems obvious to me that the extra motivation I've seen in Pac's training this time round denotes the insecurities he has regarding his ability - even at this stage or that he does not want the result to end up in another decision, with his marked improvements, and Marquez's marked decline - to tackle a truly great boxer.

None of the guys Pac has fought (we'll exclude the weight drained zombie that was DLH) had the technical ability to time him and exert superior boxing skills upon him, they were mostly come forward fighters who were either psychologically weak (I think a strong case can be made for some of them having lost the fight before they stepped in the ring, but that's a matter for another time...) or simply did not have the ability to deal with his hand speed, exceptional lateral movement and endurance. Then who has that technical ability and boxing skills that Pac should be fighting? However, it may all be a moot point, since, despite my love of Marquez (a true warrior and boxing technician) I think he has a snowball's chance in hell at this stage of his career, though I pray he can pull out one last great performance and finally get the win he deserves, and seal his legacy as arguably the greatest Mexican fighter of all time. Marquez has a chance no matter how slim it may be.

On another note, it's a real shame Pacquiao isn't doing anything currently to elevate himself in the annals of the sport. Besides Pacquiao fighting Mayweather, how else do you think he can do that? I mean, at this point, after working with Roach for the best part of a decade, he has a pretty great skillset, at least offensively - his lateral movement and use of the right hand as a southpaw are particularly impressive - and traditionally he has had the balls to take on the best, yet the last few years have seen him resting very heavily on his laurels. I hate to bring up the Mayweather fight again, but tbh, and to go back to the reason for my response, it's the only fight that could really make him 'the fighter of his era'. You are implying that Mayweather is the only one who can give him competition. So, what about the rest of the boxers in his weight division and below? Is it because Manny is so good or the rest of the competition is so awful. If that fight is made and he beats Mayweather then we can make that claim, but if he carries on fighting guys who should not really present that many problems for him, he could go down as someone who was seemingly great and yet never did everything in their power to prove it Who should Manny fight then?, but was more committed to being a commercial and political success than mastering the craft which gave him the opportunity to pursue his many other earthly pleasures. There cannot be a fight if Mayweather does not want to fight him. What do you suggest Manny do then?

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I know I am going to get flogged for this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by boozeboxer

15rounder, why do you start a thread pretending to want to discuss the matter.......but whenever people have a different opinion they are ignorant??




Please discuss. ;D

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First off, I don't believe I've ever used the word "ignorant". Think you've been hitting the booze. I said people may have blinders on if they think JMM won the fight hands down. No one won either fight hands down sir. These were good competitive fights and thats why a 3rd one is meritted. Yeah, I came after the guy that said "anyone who had Pac winning both fights is smoking rocks" By that definition, that's atleast half the people on Saddo. And anyone who thinks Pac won't go down as an all time great I'm going call them on it. Same as I would call out anyone who says JMM or Mayweather shouldn't be on that list as well. Read my posts sir. Don't just look at one thing you disagree with and get pissy. Back something up man.