I've seen so many Ali/Tyson Fantasy Fights discussed over the years, but who would win out of a prime Frazier against a prime Tyson? Discuss!
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I've seen so many Ali/Tyson Fantasy Fights discussed over the years, but who would win out of a prime Frazier against a prime Tyson? Discuss!
Tyson has two, maybe three rounds to win this. It took Frazier that long to get going. So Tyson, as quick a starter as the division has known, has a real shot.
If the bell rings to begin the fourth round? It is all Smokin' Joe.
I can't see Fraizer winning this one. Tyson does what Foreman did to him
not really, Tyson didn't have to reach or size to trouble Frazier like Foreman did, this would have been one of the rare occasions that Frazier would finally be fighting a man his actual size in terms of height and reach, I'm not saying that Tyson wouldn't be able to win, it just wouldn't be a blow out like Foreman/Frazier I & II were, it would be a telephone booth fight, and the question would be who would land cleanly first, Frazier with the left hook? or Tyson with the uppercut?, seeing how Frazier's stamina lasted for days I would lean slightly in his favorQuote:
Originally Posted by gest12645
I hate to say it but I think Frazier stops Tyson late
Tyson was not as physically imposing as Foreman. Big George used distance and reach to rain bombs down on Joe....Tyson would have to get in close and that big overhand right of Tyson's would be slower than Joe's hook or underrated right cross.Quote:
Originally Posted by gest12645
The power difference between Frazier and Foreman was described (by I think it was Chuck Wepner) as "Being hit by Frazier was like being hit by a Pontiac going 100 miles an hour and being hit by Foreman was like being hit by a Mac Truck going 50 miles an hour"
I personally think Frazier-Bowe or Frazier-Holyfield would have been EPIC battles, the style match ups were perfect.
Holyfield-Frazier would have been both men deadlocked in the middle of the ring leaning in and wailing short hooks on one another would have been insane!Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongTyson was not as physically imposing as Foreman. Big George used distance and reach to rain bombs down on Joe....Tyson would have to get in close and that big overhand right of Tyson's would be slower than Joe's hook or underrated right cross.Quote:
Originally Posted by gest12645
The power difference between Frazier and Foreman was described (by I think it was Chuck Wepner) as "Being hit by Frazier was like being hit by a Pontiac going 100 miles an hour and being hit by Foreman was like being hit by a Mac Truck going 50 miles an hour"
I personally think Frazier-Bowe or Frazier-Holyfield would have been EPIC battles, the style match ups were perfect.
I will say this, Joe Frazier would have been a horrible style match up for plenty of heavyweights. For example Wlad-Frazier, THAT would be a horrible match up for Wlad because Joe Frazier can take straight punches and his heart and stamina took fighters into the deep end where a couple of well placed hooks would end the fight.
Joe Frazier was a machine, the true Rocky Balboa, he fought with 1 arm and 1 eye for the majority of his career and he was a champion in one of the deepest eras in the heavyweight division. And he had to put up with so much bullshit its unbelievable! I STILL get pissed whenever I think of Bryant Gumbel saying "When he beat Ali, you got the feeling that the bad guy won"...nothing could be farther from the truth, Frazier was humble, hardworking, and a class act just like Joe Louis.
Seriously? Tyson had some of the fastest hands in heavyweight history. I don't see Frazier having a speed advantage over Tyson at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongTyson was not as physically imposing as Foreman. Big George used distance and reach to rain bombs down on Joe....Tyson would have to get in close and that big overhand right of Tyson's would be slower than Joe's hook or underrated right cross.Quote:
Originally Posted by gest12645
The power difference between Frazier and Foreman was described (by I think it was Chuck Wepner) as "Being hit by Frazier was like being hit by a Pontiac going 100 miles an hour and being hit by Foreman was like being hit by a Mac Truck going 50 miles an hour"
I personally think Frazier-Bowe or Frazier-Holyfield would have been EPIC battles, the style match ups were perfect.
When Tyson rares back to throw the overhand right YES Frazier could get a hook in. All of Tyson's other punches were compact and yeah he had very quick hands, but Joe could time that hook....if he could repeatedly catch Ali with it I'm betting he could lace Tyson with a few.
Joe Frazier was the perfect blend of pressure fighter and power puncher. He could wear you down or he could blast you out....either way you were going to be in pain.
With all due respect to Frazier, Tyson would win this as he was bigger, stronger and faster. Tyson would land that uppercut like he did with Frazier’s son and have him out of there. Tyson had a good time with short stocky fighters like Buster Matthis Jnr and Bruce Seldon. Tyson came at angles against them to get his punches off. There was no quit is Joe, but think the ref would have to stop the one way beating.
Frazier was taller and had a longer reach than Tyson.
You really have to wonder who would back down first between these guys both of whom were face first fighters that would stalk down their opponent.
Frazier even when being beaten had impressive head movement always up and down with very slight side to side weaving and gloves up ready to unleash Hell. When Tyson was in dire straights he stopped moving so much, he would throw 1 punch at a time. When Frazier worked his way in you were going to pay the price, Tyson was easier to tie up IMO.
Theres alot of technical talk on this forum from people who have never even taken a shot in a competative matchbut they can analyze a pretend fight and come up with a determined out come?
Sometimes its as simple as fighter A (Frazier) isnt hard to hit and fighter B (Tyson) was the worst fighter ever to be facing if that was the case;)
Joe is a great fighter and rightly belongs in the rankings above Tyson but its hard to look past how How Joe would have got past that blistering speed and pace of those first few rounds (even though Mike had tge same speed late and very good stamina). If Georges telegraphed long wide shots can get in.....
According to ross nobody ever beats Tyson everQuote:
Originally Posted by ross
If I was drinking a cup of tea id have spat and coughed it up reading that last post by Klitschkos cheerleader!;D
It would be like two bulls in a china shop, i think Joe nails him with that left hook in a 3 or 4 round brawl.
You must have skipped the part where I said Frazier would have been all wrong for Wlad because of: chin, stamina, power, and constant pressure.Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
Interesting fight and I tend to favor Tyson, because he was faster, a two handed puncher, and, at his peak, a better defensive fighter.
But that is all against taller fighters trying to stay away from him. Somebody mentioned above, and I think it would be prophetic, that Tyson had that terrific uppercut. But here's the thing: it would come down to who controlled the distance. Tyson did his damage on the transition from "out" to "in", whereas Frazier liked to fight inside. If Frazier is uncertain on that transition, Tyson will freeze him and land that uppercut. If Frazier can get inside and stay there he'll win.
But I think tyson would beat him.
of course you would Ross, you're Lyle's equivalent when it comes to being Tyson's cheerleader, if someone told you that drinking his piss gave you his mystic strength you would chug that shit down, never have you taken a step back and realize Tyson wasn't the greatest HW to have fought, hell Holyfield's a notch above him and that's not including the two ass whoopings he gave Tyson, Frazier had plenty to be able to fuck Tyson over withQuote:
Originally Posted by ross
Marb's call is perfect IMO.
Iron Mike has about 3 rounds to knock Frazier out. If Joe survives the early assault then he'll win this one.
Oh you:gay5:Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesof course you would Ross, you're Lyle's equivalent when it comes to being Tyson's cheerleader, if someone told you that drinking his piss gave you his mystic strength you would chug that shit down, never have you taken a step back and realize Tyson wasn't the greatest HW to have fought, hell Holyfield's a notch above him and that's not including the two ass whoopings he gave Tyson, Frazier had plenty to be able to fuck Tyson over withQuote:
Originally Posted by ross
Did George Foremans slow wide looping punches catch Fraizer?
Tyson wasnt the greatest heavy and he didnt achieve as much as a few other fighters but other than the notoriety of the Ali fights, I think his achievments are at least on a par with Fraziers.
For the last fucking time Tyson isn't, wasn't, and never should be confused with George Foreman God damnit! How did Foreman's wide looping punches find Frazier? Well George was tall, had a long reach, and Ole'd Joe Frazier like a matador because even Big George was wary of Frazier's punching power when standing toe to toe. George even admitted he was terrified once one of Joe's left hooks wizzed past his head.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossOh you:gay5:Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesof course you would Ross, you're Lyle's equivalent when it comes to being Tyson's cheerleader, if someone told you that drinking his piss gave you his mystic strength you would chug that shit down, never have you taken a step back and realize Tyson wasn't the greatest HW to have fought, hell Holyfield's a notch above him and that's not including the two ass whoopings he gave Tyson, Frazier had plenty to be able to fuck Tyson over withQuote:
Originally Posted by ross
Did George Foremans slow wide looping punches catch Fraizer?
Tyson wasnt the greatest heavy and he didnt achieve as much as a few other fighters but other than the notoriety of the Ali fights, I think his achievments are at least on a par with Fraziers.
If Tyson can get pushed 12 by Bonecrusher Smith, rocked by Bruno, and when the only guy showing the heart and fighting spirit of Joe Frazier (Buster Douglas) whipped Tyson's ass then you have to figure it would at least be difficult for Tyson....(Well you don't have to figure it because you're blinded by the myth of the invincible Mike Tyson) I figure Frazier stops him #1 because Tyson never lost by decision #2 Fraizer's heart, stamina, and work rate were too much for Tyson.
Foreman was looked like Colossus next to Frazier and he would have against Tyson as well the man is what? 6'4? long ass arms and packed a hell of a lot more one punch power than Mike as wellQuote:
Originally Posted by rossOh you:gay5:Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesof course you would Ross, you're Lyle's equivalent when it comes to being Tyson's cheerleader, if someone told you that drinking his piss gave you his mystic strength you would chug that shit down, never have you taken a step back and realize Tyson wasn't the greatest HW to have fought, hell Holyfield's a notch above him and that's not including the two ass whoopings he gave Tyson, Frazier had plenty to be able to fuck Tyson over withQuote:
Originally Posted by ross
Did George Foremans slow wide looping punches catch Fraizer?
Tyson wasnt the greatest heavy and he didnt achieve as much as a few other fighters but other than the notoriety of the Ali fights, I think his achievments are at least on a par with Fraziers.
Tyson is what? 5'10? 5'11? Frazier was 5'10, both men had short arms, and both were awesome fighting on the inside
I'm sure that Tyson would have been smacked around like a bitch against a young prime George Foreman just the same, and don't see how it's absurd by any means to think that Frazier would have been able to cope with Tyson's speed when he handled Ali's pretty damn well, and Ali had arguably the fastest hands at HW
back to the statement that Foreman's slow looping shots landing on Frazier, wasn't Tyson smacked caught plenty by lesser heavies like Tony Tucker, Bonecrusher Smith, and Razor Ruddock? so what makes you think that Frazier's left hook, one of the greatest left hooks in the history of the sport, wouldn't land on Tyson?
Those attribures dont come in to play unless he can last longer than he did with Foreman.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongFor the last fucking time Tyson isn't, wasn't, and never should be confused with George Foreman God damnit! How did Foreman's wide looping punches find Frazier? Well George was tall, had a long reach, and Ole'd Joe Frazier like a matador because even Big George was wary of Frazier's punching power when standing toe to toe. George even admitted he was terrified once one of Joe's left hooks wizzed past his head.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossOh you:gay5:Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesof course you would Ross, you're Lyle's equivalent when it comes to being Tyson's cheerleader, if someone told you that drinking his piss gave you his mystic strength you would chug that shit down, never have you taken a step back and realize Tyson wasn't the greatest HW to have fought, hell Holyfield's a notch above him and that's not including the two ass whoopings he gave Tyson, Frazier had plenty to be able to fuck Tyson over withQuote:
Originally Posted by ross
Did George Foremans slow wide looping punches catch Fraizer?
Tyson wasnt the greatest heavy and he didnt achieve as much as a few other fighters but other than the notoriety of the Ali fights, I think his achievments are at least on a par with Fraziers.
If Tyson can get pushed 12 by Bonecrusher Smith, rocked by Bruno, and when the only guy showing the heart and fighting spirit of Joe Frazier (Buster Douglas) whipped Tyson's ass then you have to figure it would at least be difficult for Tyson....(Well you don't have to figure it because you're blinded by the myth of the invincible Mike Tyson) I figure Frazier stops him #1 because Tyson never lost by decision #2 Fraizer's heart, stamina, and work rate were too much for Tyson.
Tyson doesn't beat many (if any at all) of the greats...thems the facts jack
This just to antagonize but an old Tyson lasted longer against Lewis than Vitali did;D
Vitali never lost to a 41-1 underdog :-XQuote:
Originally Posted by ross
The guys who troubled Tyson were bigger men with a longer reach and a JAB.. Frazier doesn't exactly fit that mold..
Frazier VS 88 Tyson.. Put a gun to my head and Im picking Tyson..
Tyson MD Frazier
No but it goes to show the resiliance and heart he had that 11 years later he could last longer against the then top heavy than our current top heavy could:oQuote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesVitali never lost to a 41-1 underdog :-XQuote:
Originally Posted by ross
Vitali was going to fight Mike Tyson...but Tyson lost to Danny Williams, damn shame that.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossNo but it goes to show the resiliance and heart he had that 11 years later he could last longer against the then top heavy than our current top heavy could:oQuote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesVitali never lost to a 41-1 underdog :-XQuote:
Originally Posted by ross
the same Danny Williams that Vitali then went on to pummel around like a rag doll, and really wanna boast up Tyson's "heart"?Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongVitali was going to fight Mike Tyson...but Tyson lost to Danny Williams, damn shame that.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossNo but it goes to show the resiliance and heart he had that 11 years later he could last longer against the then top heavy than our current top heavy could:oQuote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesVitali never lost to a 41-1 underdog :-XQuote:
Originally Posted by ross
wasn't it Tyson who munched on Holyfield's ear cause he was once again having his ass handed to him and wanted out?
wasn't it Tyson who basically stayed slouched on the floor with his hands up asking the ref to help him up against Williams?
wasn't it Tyson who tried to snap McBride's arm then later stayed sitting on the stool in the corner quitting against a bum?
there's a reason why Zab Judah is compared to Tyson, and it's not because he had fast hands and came from Brooklyn....
Out of all the fighters Cus trained, I think Floyd Patterson had the most heart...if Tyson had Patterson's heart or Patterson had Tyson's physique then you might have a case ross, but Tyson was a psychologically weak fighter. Tyson was never involved in any back and forth wars simply because he could dish it out but couldn't take it coming back at him, especially after round 5.
But hey, you're going to think the way you think no matter what I say.
Yep your right, Vitali wanted to fight Mike years after his prime.
When Mike was making a name for himself in the eighties, Joe FRazier came out of no where and offered Mike a fight, he was years past his best too. Mikes team could see the bad PR they would create by battering an old loved legend and didnt even think twice about it.
Vitali on the other hand had not only wanted it but had a good bitch about about it;D
Oh, and Tyson Smashed Julius Francis up. Remember that? That was the same Francis who gave Williams his first loss;D
Vitali and Wladimir would have welcomed a fight with a prime Tyson (I make no mention of who would win, but I'm certain you'll tell us anyway...as if we don't already know who you'd pick) , they are willing to fight anyone.....Mike Tyson however, did get an offer to fight George Foreman and it just never came to fruition....I do wonder why :dontknow:Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
The way Wladimir cautiously boxed Haye!;DQuote:
Originally Posted by El KabongVitali and Wladimir would have welcomed a fight with a prime Tyson (I make no mention of who would win, but I'm certain you'll tell us anyway...as if we don't already know who you'd pick) , they are willing to fight anyone.....Mike Tyson however, did get an offer to fight George Foreman and it just never came to fruition....I do wonder why :dontknow:Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
Show me proof he was offered the fight other than second hand say so bullshit...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2XlGWhY_5IQuote:
Originally Posted by rossThe way Wladimir cautiously boxed Haye!;DQuote:
Originally Posted by El KabongVitali and Wladimir would have welcomed a fight with a prime Tyson (I make no mention of who would win, but I'm certain you'll tell us anyway...as if we don't already know who you'd pick) , they are willing to fight anyone.....Mike Tyson however, did get an offer to fight George Foreman and it just never came to fruition....I do wonder why :dontknow:Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
Show me proof he was offered the fight other than second hand say so bullshit...
That fight (in 1990) was for a shot at Tyson (so say the people in the video) who in 1990 fought: Henry Tillman and Alex Stewart...both first round stoppages. Mike Tyson punked out, he wanted 0 of Foreman.
Wladimir fought Haye the way Wladimir fights...had Haye stood infront of him Haye would have been KO'd, Wlad wasn't timid, Wlad is just smart enough to accept his weakness in taking a flush punch and so he uses some defense and some strategy and looking at his record he's done OK with it.
Tyson had a good time with shorter fighters and Frazier would suit him. Tyson liked to move side to side to set up his punches against these short type of fighters and land that uppercut. Tyson was bigger, faster and more accurate and would beat Joe.
so what if Tyson beat Francis, HE FUCKING LOST TO WILLIAMS, so it just makes Tyson look that much overrated :-XQuote:
Originally Posted by ross
don't retell history to fit your bullshit, Wlad moved forward and Haye ran the entire night, when he wasn't running he was dropping to his knees attempting to suck Wlad's dick as a sign of peace ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by rossThe way Wladimir cautiously boxed Haye!;DQuote:
Originally Posted by El KabongVitali and Wladimir would have welcomed a fight with a prime Tyson (I make no mention of who would win, but I'm certain you'll tell us anyway...as if we don't already know who you'd pick) , they are willing to fight anyone.....Mike Tyson however, did get an offer to fight George Foreman and it just never came to fruition....I do wonder why :dontknow:Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
Show me proof he was offered the fight other than second hand say so bullshit...
Was he ever a 41-1 favorite?Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesVitali never lost to a 41-1 underdog :-XQuote:
Originally Posted by ross
only reason he isn't is cause neither Wlad nor Vitali is ever given the credit they deserve, because if any of the guys in the lower side of the top 10 were to beat him it would be more or less the same as them losing to Douglas, no one in the HW division is anywhere close to either bro, you could NEVER say that about MikeQuote:
Originally Posted by LobowolfXXXWas he ever a 41-1 favorite?Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesVitali never lost to a 41-1 underdog :-XQuote:
Originally Posted by ross