Theres no such thing, your thoughts :confused:
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Theres no such thing, your thoughts :confused:
Sure there is.
Cant be sure about boxing since i dont practise it for long enough to give an educated opinion but i suppose it is valid for boxing as it is valid for other things in life where im sure i've taken advantage of muscle memory.
As for combat sports, i practised karate for 14 years and while practising for kumite(combat competitions) we used to practise counter situations, how to react when your opponent throws a specific punch or kick to you and we practised till exhaustion. After months of that, one would react to said puch in the way he trained to do without the need of thinking about it, cause your body rebembers how to react to it(or so i believe).
Another example, tricking, which most of you probably dont know what it is, but it is basicly a blend of martial arts and gymnastics. i did it for a while with some friends just for fun and there are lots of "tricks" that require flipping and spinning. takes forever to learn, yet, once your body memorizes it you can go half an year without doing it and yet you will probably nail it in your first try doing after the hiatus(experienced this myself after i tore my ACL).
Same with playing guitar in which sometimes you dont quite remember a song you used to play a lot and havent for a long time, but once you begin to play it without thinking too much your fingers start moving on their own.
And there are countless other examples, and im pretty sure the same principles can be apllied to boxing if there is any need for it.
Now, this is just my humble opinion, and i would love to hear your take on this matter Scrap. Why do you think there is no such thing as muscle memory?
Agree, only our brains can tell our muscles what to do. From what I have read, voluntary movements are controlled by the brain and involuntary movements originate in the brain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrap
What Gocouger says, Joao ;D
Id say the heart could be much more involved in movement than most think and may be proven to be in future. a man suddenly has a heart transplant, hes never knitted a stitch before in his life, suddenly he has the urge to knitt complex stitchwork hes never done before, numerous times a day. this is happening in heart transplant patients all over the world, patients doing things THEY have never done before, but the heart has. I dont believe all movement comes from the brain.
I just know movement is more involved with the heart, i feel it deep down, all my time spent as a practisioner of martial arts since i was young, ive always enjoyed the movements, liked to display what i could do to others, i think this has always helped me in picking up any sort of martial art, the passion for unarmed combat and movements, the want to entertain. movements that involve combat if you will, now i try to do somthing using motor functions wise that im not interested in, and im a totally different person, show me how to handle a jig-saw and ill lose a finger, the best meal i can cook is beans on toast or chips and chicken nuggets lol.
oh, i see! we got lost in translation then haha. the discussion was not about doubting the existence of muscle memory but what we understand as muscle memory. In that case yes, i still say that it does exist as i stated on all my examples but of course the information would be stored in your brain(which is only logical since your muscles wont move unless they are electricly stimulated by the nerves, stimulation that begins in the brain).
Well does it come from the Brain, the Spark or in other words, the Human Electro Magnetic Field, :-\ .
People who are brain dead dont move. But their heart does and their body knows how to go on!
They may well have full conscious awareness though (of whats happening around them) even though they are physically to the eye unconscious.
Like when people explain their whole operation from the view behind the surgeon.
One possibility: Wouldnt muscle memory be locked in dna and rna and those physical attributes are passed on ? Within it maybe some ancestor memory that can be utilized in certain situations.
In regards to the heart being just a muscle or a pump, :-\ I think it is so much more and it stores and releases bigger energies than we mentally can comprehend but the mind is the bridge between electric light force energy and electromagnetic love energy.
At the end of the day if the eletric thought pathways from the brain are severed you arent going to be able to consously link the electromagnetic love together into physcial action. The two working alone just dont cut the mustard physically. So finding balance between want, love feelings and thoughts, action I think is the key to free flowing energy direction. If you overthink a situation you are stifling one, if you over feel a situation you stifle the other. I think the fine line is emotion and our mental control of it through belife (like how some people freeze in fear and others excel in fear.) You cant act free flowing in a balanced way if your foundations are not counter balanced by you.
EMF comes from the Heart ;D
We are on a slightly different topic but I like your post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre
What I took out of Scrap's post was a reminder we have to think properly about punching, slipping, countering, etc. The brain may also help us react, without conscious intent but to believe we can operate mindlessly is, for lack of a better word, mindless.
What I took from your post was an interesting synopsis of blending emotional and mental qualities. So many coaches, books, whatever, are either from the "clear your head" school others are pure "motivators" (appealing to emotion and adrenaline), a few ask us to think (I think pattern searching is the key element to a great boxer). I think you are right about finding a balance.
Granted, I could be misunderstanding both of you, one of you or neither.
Im playing Devils Advocate, are thoughts are similar, was discussing this last week at the Uni, with Sports Scientist. Ive brought it in here, to see what you lot think, Im still Open, like Andres slant, it interests me.
:cool: You got me right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gocougars3We are on a slightly different topic but I like your post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre
What I took out of Scrap's post was a reminder we have to think properly about punching, slipping, countering, etc. The brain may also help us react, without conscious intent but to believe we can operate mindlessly is, for lack of a better word, mindless.
What I took from your post was an interesting synopsis of blending emotional and mental qualities. So many coaches, books, whatever, are either from the "clear your head" school others are pure "motivators" (appealing to emotion and adrenaline), a few ask us to think (I think pattern searching is the key element to a great boxer). I think you are right about finding a balance.
Granted, I could be misunderstanding both of you, one of you or neither.
Yeah I was thinking up the mind verses heart thing and where memory serves us in each regarding action and reaction. Automated response etc. But once the electric link or conscious thought is broken theres no bringing it all into physical action.
I am never on track, always entertaining myself with maybes and what ifs.
Forgot to ask, which muscle? I got one that seems to do allot of my thinking for me.
Don't know if it's on the same subject has muscle memory, but what about a chicken running/flocking/etc after his head got cut off?
Nice sharing,.
Inherited Memories in Organ Transplant RecipientsQuote:
Originally Posted by LordAnon
Good vid, it shows that your heart is in control of much more than was first concidered, personality, everything. i find clarity helps me in performance, when you know through and through what to expect and what to do, i like to meditate before sparring or training for 20 minutes, ill just find somewhere comfortable to sit with my eyes closed for a while, then spend time afterwards when wrapping up to think and go through mentally what is going to happen and what my goals are. i do this because i know once i get in there its just fun, even if its just bag work, im a kid in a candy store, sometimes working the bag myself in the garage ending up doing 5 minute rounds and training increadibly dumb simply because i just wouldnt take a minute to step back and think about what to do, i was just having fun.
.
i love the movement and i love the respect you get when you establish that first shot and you realise youve got them, you stalk and move and play with it, it all adds to the love of it for me, it sounds horrible but im not a violent person and i dont like hurting people, but i like to tame a fighter and i love to get in their head and make them twitch at the slightest hint and then using that respect to display my abilitys in an entertaining way, its more about showing people what i can do for me, rather than simply hurting the other guy, i like to entertain. Ive been called a flash **** and a poser and everything else i havent caught wind of but i dont care im in it for the time in the ring, nothing matters but you and him, in a way you could say its a form of meditation for me in itself, all the very real life problems disappear quick when your in there.
Sort of a mess this post lol not sure if i understand the point to it myself, but basically my point was it feels to me like its a lot about having love for what your doing, when the heart and mind and body are comfortable and happy. This is just my opinion or sort of what i feel, half of the time im just writing as im thinking on here, blurting out my thoughts and feelings, sometimes i think its nice to have somewhere to write things down :confused: lol, ill stop now.
course there is, you weight train your muscles grow, if you stop for a few years you wont go back to your starting point before you weight trainedQuote:
Originally Posted by Scrap
you wont be as strong as when you first stopped but your muscles will remember some of it :)
I get what you are saying ,in the zone,not over thinking or forcing,when you love what you do it allows for that flow.When you are in that flow and other guy is forced into over thinking he cant get in his zone.Quote:
Originally Posted by WayneFlint
Try this; get a sponge or a soft ball and just lob it at some friends head and see what block they use from their reaction. That is a natural form without thought right there,its centuries, eons of reaction that have formed the perfect block.
Some people get whopped without moving ;D but for many specially children or women who react without thought, its an elbow up into the path of the shot with the forearm covering like a wing and the other hand covers the gap under that elbow as they duck behind the shoulder to elbow part of the arm. Like hiding behind a raised wing.
Protects all the vital spots on the side of the neck and the temple in one move.
There lies the problem, as regards that action. the signal comes from the thing youre trying to protect, the Head. It creates the fastest response. Over Time if it takes to many Hits, that reaction gets slower.
Your right there andre now you mention it, ive seen it happen myself i believe, perhaps in snowball fights or somthing like, dodgeball. even as a kid i was always watching people, sometimes it can be interesting, how they move, seeing how awkward they might or might not be with their movement and reactions, probably because of egotistic reasons rather than interest back then but still i was watching lol. then you would always notice somebody that has good sort of ''clever'' reflexes that seems to come from nowhere, i always used to think to myself, i bet hes handy or would have good instincts to fight, sort of weighing them up if you will. Im starting to understand now why your saying these movements and reactions could be passed down through DNA, its fascinating isnt it.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreI get what you are saying ,in the zone,not over thinking or forcing,when you love what you do it allows for that flow.When you are in that flow and other guy is forced into over thinking he cant get in his zone.Quote:
Originally Posted by WayneFlint
Try this; get a sponge or a soft ball and just lob it at some friends head and see what block they use from their reaction. That is a natural form without thought right there,its centuries, eons of reaction that have formed the perfect block.
Some people get whopped without moving ;D but for many specially children or women who react without thought, its an elbow up into the path of the shot with the forearm covering like a wing and the other hand covers the gap under that elbow as they duck behind the shoulder to elbow part of the arm. Like hiding behind a raised wing.
Protects all the vital spots on the side of the neck and the temple in one move.
There were things i have said to certain close people quite a few years back now and it would be very interesting if they where here to read this thread, because the things i said to them would indicate i knew this to be true on some level quite some time ago. bit of a sob story so wont bother you with the details lol :)
So scrap your saying reflexes is purely upstairs? brain, eyes, etc. nothing else? or your saying the shots to the head damage where the signals come from? what about if they damage your heart/spirit do you think that would slow reactions?
That i believe is largley due to muscle fascia stretch and doesnt last long term only short term, if it was this simple there would be guys walking around with servier imbalances in their muscle structures, i would have a tiny chest and huge 17" arms lol. thank god its not the case, i already have arms like an errangetang lol, id look like a lifesized poppeye then, hehe.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44course there is, you weight train your muscles grow, if you stop for a few years you wont go back to your starting point before you weight trainedQuote:
Originally Posted by Scrap
you wont be as strong as when you first stopped but your muscles will remember some of it :)
I think if any part of the system we live in (body mind spirit) is damaged it has running effects into the others,same with some parts of the body, when break downs in links form through dis ease then an organ can be out of balance etc. Just to sound even crazier :p I also personally think (being a life form) even the ground we live on can have its effects.The people around us,what they say, but mostly what we believe is our due,your body will eventually follow your deeper feeling.
Wayne, as Ive said Im playing Devils Advocate. What I call The Newtonian's Law, over the years Ive had a feeling theres more. I like Andres Take on it, plus I like the idea, I understand Consciousness, I also understand Truths, trying to find them. ;D
Theres the East and West, I think its in the Middle somewhere :confused:
:cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrap
The Balance,which is harmonic.
We are a carbon based orchestra with a conductor that some of us have not much control over. :)
Im also very fond of your take on it andre, i feel theres a lot of truth to what your saying at the moment, so it could be likened to string theory in a sense, all the different frequency's around us have an effect if we allow it. from things ive seen people achieve in my short time its hard to believe anything but, we can truely do amazing things if we are open to them, ive seen things go on down at scraps alone i could never do myself, and ive seen young lads jump right on and its like theyve been doing it years, really need to see it or follow scraps work and know his equipment to understand , a specific time i remember involved skipping on scraps wobble board if youve seen it on videos here in the forums.
If i remember correctly there was a young footballer, very talented. he just jumped right on it and started skipping straight away, after months on the wobbly i could barely stand and shadow box on it which i would concider as much more basic than skipping on it lol. I also suprised myself when he told me to jump on a fit ball and after a few weeks practice, few times a week i could jump onto a fitball and shadow box, of course at first it launched me off in a random direction when first trying to jump onto it, but it was surprising how quick i got used to it, its suprising how sensetive the body can be, of course it can be numb aswell. it wouldnt surprise me at all if things said/surroundings have a much greater effect on us than is first apparent.
I have a question i think may be of some sort of relevance to this thread, it involves a lad ive been training over a year now, hes comfortable in the ring now and he's getting to a point where his work flows nicely at times but hes missing a little somthing, a sort of confidence, like what gives each individual fighter his style, tempo or rhythme, a sort of sureness in what theyre doing, hard to explain. ive been training his almost identicle twin brother for the same length of time and while he has sort of found his style and rhythme if you will, technicley hes not half as complete a fighter as the first brother mentioned because it seems he prefers to listen to his body and what feels good rather than what i say most of the time.
Ive tried a few things with this first brother i thought maybe it was confidence because hes very within himself and the other brother is very forward and cocky, ive found good sparring for him with a local ex amature who boxed in the olympics 8 year back and he did very well which i thought would bring on his confidence and though it has in a way and it has definently brought him on more outside the ring aswell, it wasnt quite the effect i was looking for, ive been thinking lots of ways to try to motivate him and lift his spirits and improve his confidence, hes very quite outside the ring and inside the ring, he will only box to hurt somebody if he has to or be put to the canvas, if he can handle them and not get involved he will until the last minute.
I just thought maybe you guys might have some idea's i know videos would be useful ill have to try and get some online some day and then i know how to do it lol, however i dont think this is somthing a short video can display quite so well if you get me, its just a sort of cocky, sureness he lacks that i feel would bring his movements and overall performance in the ring that much further, its sort of like hes being forced to do everything in their, like his soul isnt behind it or somthing, funny to describe.
How is he against his brother?
And who is his favorite fighter?
Is He the Older Brother.
Hes the older brother (joe) scrap, and andre, he doesnt have a favourite fighter, he watches boxing but i dont believe he has found his favourite yet, i know he likes watching though because often hes the 1 telling me when whos fighting who, but this is what ive told him a few times now, he needs to find a fighter, or movements and set ups from fighters that he likes and imitate them, is that what your thinking andre?
Some more info, the latest exchange against his younger brother (sam) is similair to sparr's with others but exagerated, it seems joe would hit the canvas before hurting or embarassing sam, joe has less talent than sam but has been getting a lot more training and help from me the past 6 month as his brother layed off training completely for about 6 month due to a new relationship, joe listens well and works hard in training so i go into more detail with him sometimes, sam is layed back and will come to me when he may feel he has a problem so i dont frustrate him too much with too many rules and orders, just a few really good ones.
i had started training sam 6month before joe, so ive trained them both roughly a year now, joe likes to counter punch and hes in a place now where hes able to not get involved much with sam at all really and not take many bad knocks for it, so he just makes him miss and throws playful jabs to keep him busy, he stays away from inside work completely with sam. sam however likes to box but will come forward aggressivley if anyone, especially joe tests him, doesnt hold back and takes big risks but is mainly concerned with what looks good and winding up big shots lol, Sam trys to imitate my style and rhythme from what hes seen of it, from times ive messed about with him and joe in the ring and once he saw me spar with a local pro but hasnt seen me do much.
Do you think sometimes too much info or nurture can be a bad thing? i do think i have a tendancie to overdo the info or nurture sometimes, even though i know all too well of the traps to fall into with overthinking. i knew it wouldnt workout with sam that way so i took a different approach with him, however most clients i train like i train joe.
i feel like if a fighters in there and hes trained by you then you should have given him every possible tool you can to do the job safely in terms of technique and strategy, if you cant do this then you shouldnt be a boxing coach, boxing involves a lot more than just a personal trainer qualification. however a lot around here feel thats all you need to start charging silly money per hour to tell someone to jab and move their head.
i know how poor the training and little the knowledge i actually recieved when i was competing at international level as a kid and i want to give others the chance i never had, i know there where times when i were completely outclassed and i didnt have a clue why, it was a lonely place to be, now i realise i was in their on my own and i wasnt old enough to use my brain to fight, someone should have been there for me that was. they rely on us to do well and not get hurt, id like them to know everything i know and more.
Sorry babbled on again their, i appreciate any thoughts you guys might have on the matter, so basically, should i keep pushing joe to watch more boxing and find his favourite fighter? or is it a confidence problem? am i overloading his brain with too much info? maybe i should give him time to adapt with what ive given him so far? can you guys see anything else i may have missed?
so what are you saying? you stop training your muscles return to their normal size (in time obviously) but you keep the strength?Quote:
Originally Posted by WayneFlintThat i believe is largley due to muscle fascia stretch and doesnt last long term only short term, if it was this simple there would be guys walking around with servier imbalances in their muscle structures, i would have a tiny chest and huge 17" arms lol. thank god its not the case, i already have arms like an errangetang lol, id look like a lifesized poppeye then, hehe.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44course there is, you weight train your muscles grow, if you stop for a few years you wont go back to your starting point before you weight trainedQuote:
Originally Posted by Scrap
you wont be as strong as when you first stopped but your muscles will remember some of it :)