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"You Have to dominate the champion" - one of the dumbest sayings in boxing?
Whenever talking about a controversial decision, past or present, this nugget of shit always gets brought up in some form or another.
"You need to REALLY beat a champion to win his belt".
Says who? Show me in the boxing rulebook where it says "The Champion/Popular fighter Shall Inherit All Ye Close Rounds".
It's REDICULOUS. Boxing is very cut and dry: you win a bout by knocking your opponent out or winning more rounds than him.
Judges are responsible for interpreting who won a round, and that's it. If they are doing anything else, like taking into account a championship/popularity/money/market value/ect, then by it's very definition, THEY ARE CORRUPT.
We all agree that corruption in boxing is a huge, undesirable problem. But when you use this rediculous old cliche to justify a robbery, you are doing nothing but helping to perpetuate the bullshit that has all but destroying boxing over the years.
Cut it out. The guy who fought better deserves the win.
JMM > Pacquaio
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Re: "You Have to dominate the champion" - one of the dumbest sayings in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Says who? Show me in the boxing rulebook where it says "The Champion/Popular fighter Shall Inherit All Ye Close Rounds".
Judges are responsible for interpreting who won a round, and that's it. If they are doing anything else, like taking into account a championship/popularity/money/market value/ect, then by it's very definition, THEY ARE CORRUPT.
We all agree that corruption in boxing is a huge, undesirable problem. But when you use this rediculous old cliche to justify a robbery, you are doing nothing but helping to perpetuate the bullshit that has all but destroying boxing over the years.
Good points, completely agreed with the above ;D
However, because of the JMM reference, I'm sure most of the posts will be groans about beating a dead horse or something along those lines. :mad:
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Re: "You Have to dominate the champion" - one of the dumbest sayings in boxing?
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Re: "You Have to dominate the champion" - one of the dumbest sayings in boxing?
You don't have to dominate the champion,... BUT AT LEAST TRY.
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Re: "You Have to dominate the champion" - one of the dumbest sayings in boxing?
I was gonna make a thread about this as well... lol
Definitely... it's a dumb notion that the challenger " has to take the belt "... it's just some BS cliche that's more fitting for a movie.
Challenger dont have to dominate anything. They can either score a KO or win rounds, simple as that..
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Re: "You Have to dominate the champion" - one of the dumbest sayings in boxing?
well you have to convince EVERYONE you are better than the champ. in my eyes jmm won but to the judges eyes he didnt.
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Re: "You Have to dominate the champion" - one of the dumbest sayings in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
:::PSL:::
You don't have to dominate the champion,... BUT AT LEAST TRY.
In your feeble eyes, Marquez didnt try? lol Stop exposing yourself further..
I know you are simple minded but one doesnt have to move forward all the time to indicate that they are trying.
Marquez is a counter puncher and he implemented his style better than Pacman did..
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Re: "You Have to dominate the champion" - one of the dumbest sayings in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FinitoElDinamita
Quote:
Originally Posted by
:::PSL:::
You don't have to dominate the champion,... BUT AT LEAST TRY.
In your feeble eyes, Marquez didnt try? lol Stop exposing yourself further..
I know you are simple minded but one doesnt have to move forward all the time to indicate that they are trying.
Marquez is a counter puncher and he implemented his style better than Pacman did..
don't even bother bro, words falling on deaf ears
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Re: "You Have to dominate the champion" - one of the dumbest sayings in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FinitoElDinamita
Quote:
Originally Posted by
:::PSL:::
You don't have to dominate the champion,... BUT AT LEAST TRY.
In your feeble eyes, Marquez didnt try? lol Stop exposing yourself further..
I know you are simple minded but one doesnt have to move forward all the time to indicate that they are trying.
Marquez is a counter puncher and
he implemented his style better than Pacman did..
Nope. I disagree.
The challenger must convincingly defeat the champ, hanging with Pac for 12 rounds and trading shots is not enough. You don’t win a fight just for hanging in there or for surviving. Manny threw over 100 more punches and connected with more. Add that to the fact that Marquez was backing up ALL FUCKING ROUNDS and it’s easy to determine who the aggressor was. So No, IMO Marquez didn't try.
Close fight but a clear victory for Pac.
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Re: "You Have to dominate the champion" - one of the dumbest sayings in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
:::PSL:::
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FinitoElDinamita
Quote:
Originally Posted by
:::PSL:::
You don't have to dominate the champion,... BUT AT LEAST TRY.
In your feeble eyes, Marquez didnt try? lol Stop exposing yourself further..
I know you are simple minded but one doesnt have to move forward all the time to indicate that they are trying.
Marquez is a counter puncher and
he implemented his style better than Pacman did..
Nope. I disagree.
The challenger must convincingly defeat the champ, hanging with Pac for 12 rounds and trading shots is not enough. You don’t win a fight just for hanging in there or for surviving. Manny threw over 100 more punches and connected with more. Add that to the fact that Marquez was backing up ALL FUCKING ROUNDS and it’s easy to determine who the aggressor was. So No, IMO Marquez didn't try.
Close fight but a clear victory for Pac.
oh lord...Marquez is a FUCKING COUNTER PUNCHER, meaning he COUNTERS after his opponent throws ineffective shots land his own effective punches, for example the constant overhand rights raining in on the left side of Pacquiao's face, there is no way you're going to COUNTER if you're the one coming forward, and even using the punchstats as "evidence" who had the higher connect %? oh right Marquez, further proof that he picked his punches to land cleaner sharper punches throughout the night, if the guy in the red corner hadn't been Manny Fucking Pacquiao there wouldn't be so much "you have to take the title from the champion" bullshit
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Re: "You Have to dominate the champion" - one of the dumbest sayings in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
:::PSL:::
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FinitoElDinamita
Quote:
Originally Posted by
:::PSL:::
You don't have to dominate the champion,... BUT AT LEAST TRY.
In your feeble eyes, Marquez didnt try? lol Stop exposing yourself further..
I know you are simple minded but one doesnt have to move forward all the time to indicate that they are trying.
Marquez is a counter puncher and
he implemented his style better than Pacman did..
Nope. I disagree.
The challenger must convincingly defeat the champ, hanging with Pac for 12 rounds and trading shots is not enough. You don’t win a fight just for hanging in there or for surviving. Manny threw over 100 more punches and connected with more. Add that to the fact that Marquez was backing up ALL FUCKING ROUNDS and it’s easy to determine who the aggressor was. So No, IMO Marquez didn't try.
Close fight but a clear victory for Pac.
oh lord...Marquez is a FUCKING COUNTER PUNCHER, meaning he COUNTERS after his opponent throws ineffective shots land his own effective punches, for example the constant overhand rights raining in on the left side of Pacquiao's face, there is no way you're going to COUNTER if you're the one coming forward, and even using the punchstats as "evidence" who had the higher connect %? oh right Marquez, further proof that he picked his punches to land cleaner sharper punches throughout the night, if the guy in the red corner hadn't been Manny Fucking Pacquiao there wouldn't be so much "you have to take the title from the champion" bullshit
Maybe Marquez should mixed it up a bit. Be the aggressor and the counterpuncher.
'Ever heard of Nonito Donaire? ;)
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Re: "You Have to dominate the champion" - one of the dumbest sayings in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
:::PSL:::
and it’s easy to determine who the aggressor was.
Here is another notion I hate: scoring rounds to the "aggressor". Being an aggressor doesn't mean anything, it's being an "effective aggressor" that wins fights.
Manny is usually an effective aggressor because he pushes the pace and LANDS PUNCHES. Hitting your opponent = effective.
Tex Cobb was the "aggressor" against Larry Holmes. Watch that fight and tell me who you think won.
When you are pushing the pace, but getting raked with counter punches, what good does that do you?
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Re: "You Have to dominate the champion" - one of the dumbest sayings in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
:::PSL:::
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
:::PSL:::
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FinitoElDinamita
Quote:
Originally Posted by
:::PSL:::
You don't have to dominate the champion,... BUT AT LEAST TRY.
In your feeble eyes, Marquez didnt try? lol Stop exposing yourself further..
I know you are simple minded but one doesnt have to move forward all the time to indicate that they are trying.
Marquez is a counter puncher and
he implemented his style better than Pacman did..
Nope. I disagree.
The challenger must convincingly defeat the champ, hanging with Pac for 12 rounds and trading shots is not enough. You don’t win a fight just for hanging in there or for surviving. Manny threw over 100 more punches and connected with more. Add that to the fact that Marquez was backing up ALL FUCKING ROUNDS and it’s easy to determine who the aggressor was. So No, IMO Marquez didn't try.
Close fight but a clear victory for Pac.
oh lord...Marquez is a FUCKING COUNTER PUNCHER, meaning he COUNTERS after his opponent throws ineffective shots land his own effective punches, for example the constant overhand rights raining in on the left side of Pacquiao's face, there is no way you're going to COUNTER if you're the one coming forward, and even using the punchstats as "evidence" who had the higher connect %? oh right Marquez, further proof that he picked his punches to land cleaner sharper punches throughout the night, if the guy in the red corner hadn't been Manny Fucking Pacquiao there wouldn't be so much "you have to take the title from the champion" bullshit
Maybe Marquez should mixed it up a bit. Be the aggressor and the counterpuncher.
'Ever heard of Nonito Donaire? ;)
yea the guy nowhere near Marquez' level, and it's easy to mix it up the way Donaire does when he beats up on a guy who's not fighting back, unless you're really comparing fighting Manny Pacquiao to fighting Narvaez
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Re: "You Have to dominate the champion" - one of the dumbest sayings in boxing?
This isn't even up for debate. There is nothing in the scoring rules to this effect. Anyone who uses this argument is simply making up things. And those same people would have to give JMM the first fight over Pac then because that fight ended in a draw and JMM was the champion.
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Re: "You Have to dominate the champion" - one of the dumbest sayings in boxing?
Shit with the rip off floyd and roy jones got in the olympics you have to dominate in the amatures too
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Re: "You Have to dominate the champion" - one of the dumbest sayings in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
:::PSL:::
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FinitoElDinamita
Quote:
Originally Posted by
:::PSL:::
You don't have to dominate the champion,... BUT AT LEAST TRY.
In your feeble eyes, Marquez didnt try? lol Stop exposing yourself further..
I know you are simple minded but one doesnt have to move forward all the time to indicate that they are trying.
Marquez is a counter puncher and
he implemented his style better than Pacman did..
Nope. I disagree.
The challenger must convincingly defeat the champ, hanging with Pac for 12 rounds and trading shots is not enough. You don’t win a fight just for hanging in there or for surviving. Manny
threw over 100 more punches and connected with more. Add that to the fact that Marquez was backing up ALL FUCKING ROUNDS and it’s easy to determine who the aggressor was. So No, IMO Marquez didn't try.
Close fight but a clear victory for Pac.
According to your criteria, especially the one in bold, Marquez should have got the win against pac in their 1st and 2nd fights. Marquez was champion and he out landed pac, there were close rounds which he should have been given because he's champ.
But in reality Pac got the wins because he makes more money for the crooks.
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Re: "You Have to dominate the champion" - one of the dumbest sayings in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FinitoElDinamita
Quote:
Originally Posted by
:::PSL:::
You don't have to dominate the champion,... BUT AT LEAST TRY.
In your feeble eyes, Marquez didnt try? lol Stop exposing yourself further..
I know you are simple minded but one doesnt have to move forward all the time to indicate that they are trying.
Marquez is a counter puncher and he implemented his style better than Pacman did..
don't even bother bro, words falling on deaf ears
This dude needs to start paying you tutor fees but whatever..
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Re: "You Have to dominate the champion" - one of the dumbest sayings in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FinitoElDinamita
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FinitoElDinamita
Quote:
Originally Posted by
:::PSL:::
You don't have to dominate the champion,... BUT AT LEAST TRY.
In your feeble eyes, Marquez didnt try? lol Stop exposing yourself further..
I know you are simple minded but one doesnt have to move forward all the time to indicate that they are trying.
Marquez is a counter puncher and he implemented his style better than Pacman did..
don't even bother bro, words falling on deaf ears
This dude needs to start paying you tutor fees but whatever..
i should write it off as charity, protect the Pactards foundation lol
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Re: "You Have to dominate the champion" - one of the dumbest sayings in boxing?
If Pac was connecting like he should of been and if he did out punch Juan, I would expect Juan to end up looking more like Margarito after Pac had finished with him. I see Pac as the stronger man, but he gave away some of his usual commitment to the punch this time around. Either that or Juan was the more evasive and better skilled man on the night.
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Re: "You Have to dominate the champion" - one of the dumbest sayings in boxing?
This phrase is only used by fan boys of the champion that should of lost the fight. No where in the rules does it say you must beat the champion anymore than you would of have to beat someone without the title. Therefore it is a bullshit saying.
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Re: "You Have to dominate the champion" - one of the dumbest sayings in boxing?
Absolutely right
you know whats worse? When you have the idiotic HBO team reaffirming it. Steward, lampley and lederman all spouting that shit about "you have toa tke the belt from the champ".
complete biased nonsense.
So, lets see..so far we've had foot stomper, compubox stats and "you have to take the belt from the champ..thats low..
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Re: "You Have to dominate the champion" - one of the dumbest sayings in boxing?
You judge a round and give it to who you think won and over 12 you have a winner. If you need to dominate a champion in order to get the verdict then it is an open admission of corruption and to say that is how it should be is the sign of a person with flawed values.
Judges need to be held to account and currently they fill in the cards, take a check and then hurry off home without explanation. Boxing judges are like the federal reserve and need to be audited and cleaned up in order to provide a transparent service.
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Re: "You Have to dominate the champion" - one of the dumbest sayings in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Manos de Piedra
Quote:
Originally Posted by
:::PSL:::
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FinitoElDinamita
Quote:
Originally Posted by
:::PSL:::
You don't have to dominate the champion,... BUT AT LEAST TRY.
In your feeble eyes, Marquez didnt try? lol Stop exposing yourself further..
I know you are simple minded but one doesnt have to move forward all the time to indicate that they are trying.
Marquez is a counter puncher and
he implemented his style better than Pacman did..
Nope. I disagree.
The challenger must convincingly defeat the champ, hanging with Pac for 12 rounds and trading shots is not enough. You don’t win a fight just for hanging in there or for surviving. Manny
threw over 100 more punches and connected with more. Add that to the fact that Marquez was backing up ALL FUCKING ROUNDS and it’s easy to determine who the aggressor was. So No, IMO Marquez didn't try.
Close fight but a clear victory for Pac.
According to your criteria, especially the one in bold, Marquez should have got the win against pac in their 1st and 2nd fights. Marquez was champion and he out landed pac, there were close rounds which he should have been given because he's champ.
But in reality Pac got the wins because he makes more money for the crooks.
KD counts. And Pac scored multiple KDs during those fights.
Mimascaras, Eltirreble. Get a room you two.
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Re: "You Have to dominate the champion" - one of the dumbest sayings in boxing?
I am sure if Marquez knocked him out, they would come up with something like "Knocking out the champion is not enough, you have to take that belt......(and some crap after that)"
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Re: "You Have to dominate the champion" - one of the dumbest sayings in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
badr_hari
I am sure if Marquez knocked him out, they would come up with something like "Knocking out the champion is not enough, you have to take that belt......(and some crap after that)"
Of course, it's not. Pac has to stay in the hospital at least 3 days.
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Re: "You Have to dominate the champion" - one of the dumbest sayings in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
:::PSL:::
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Manos de Piedra
Quote:
Originally Posted by
:::PSL:::
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FinitoElDinamita
Quote:
Originally Posted by
:::PSL:::
You don't have to dominate the champion,... BUT AT LEAST TRY.
In your feeble eyes, Marquez didnt try? lol Stop exposing yourself further..
I know you are simple minded but one doesnt have to move forward all the time to indicate that they are trying.
Marquez is a counter puncher and
he implemented his style better than Pacman did..
Nope. I disagree.
The challenger must convincingly defeat the champ, hanging with Pac for 12 rounds and trading shots is not enough. You don’t win a fight just for hanging in there or for surviving. Manny
threw over 100 more punches and connected with more. Add that to the fact that Marquez was backing up ALL FUCKING ROUNDS and it’s easy to determine who the aggressor was. So No, IMO Marquez didn't try.
Close fight but a clear victory for Pac.
According to your criteria, especially the one in bold, Marquez should have got the win against pac in their 1st and 2nd fights. Marquez was champion and he out landed pac, there were close rounds which he should have been given because he's champ.
But in reality Pac got the wins because he makes more money for the crooks.
KD counts. And Pac scored multiple KDs during those fights.
Mimascaras, Eltirreble. Get a room you two.
hahaha you and the rest of your Pactard horde get a suite to have your Pacquiao worshiping orgie :-X and once again it's round by round, Pacquiao got 3 kd's in one round in the first fight and virtually lost every round that followed, he scored ONE knockdown in the second fight and still lost more rounds than Marquez meaning that to his name he had one 10-8 round and a lot of 9-10 rounds, then in the final fight there WAS NO KD and he still lost IMO 8 of the 12 rounds, you can't get a much clearer win than a fucking 8-4 score, funny how you also dropped the Manny "koing" Mayweather banner, and haven't made a peep against the Pacquiao looking like shit against Marquez while Floyd just toyed with him :-X
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Re: "You Have to dominate the champion" - one of the dumbest sayings in boxing?
I still haven't seen the fight and HBO will probably air it tonight with their feature bout. My point although a short one is that when these blowhards say these dumb things, it is to cover up the fact that they don't know shit about what went on in the ring and that's that. I might have a few things to say about the fight but being that I like both fighters, objectivity would be easy and I don't have conversations with those stupid little cliches about dominating a champion. You have a winner and you have someone that lost to the winner. All the rest of the garbage is talk and protection of their own egos these stupid announcers should also pay attention to the many blows they missed seeing and can the bias when incessant chatter like people at boring tea parties.
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Re: "You Have to dominate the champion" - one of the dumbest sayings in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
:::PSL:::
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Manos de Piedra
Quote:
Originally Posted by
:::PSL:::
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FinitoElDinamita
Quote:
Originally Posted by
:::PSL:::
You don't have to dominate the champion,... BUT AT LEAST TRY.
In your feeble eyes, Marquez didnt try? lol Stop exposing yourself further..
I know you are simple minded but one doesnt have to move forward all the time to indicate that they are trying.
Marquez is a counter puncher and
he implemented his style better than Pacman did..
Nope. I disagree.
The challenger must convincingly defeat the champ, hanging with Pac for 12 rounds and trading shots is not enough. You don’t win a fight just for hanging in there or for surviving. Manny
threw over 100 more punches and connected with more. Add that to the fact that Marquez was backing up ALL FUCKING ROUNDS and it’s easy to determine who the aggressor was. So No, IMO Marquez didn't try.
Close fight but a clear victory for Pac.
According to your criteria, especially the one in bold, Marquez should have got the win against pac in their 1st and 2nd fights. Marquez was champion and he out landed pac, there were close rounds which he should have been given because he's champ.
But in reality Pac got the wins because he makes more money for the crooks.
KD counts. And Pac scored multiple KDs during those fights.
Mimascaras, Eltirreble. Get a room you two.
Fights are scored round by round not just based on one round. A part from the KD round Pac didn't win many clear rounds in them fights, the second fight pac was losing the round till he scored he knockdown. The knockdowns were used to rob marquez in the first two and the 3rd it was because he wasn't agressive enough, biggest load of shit I've heard. It's all politics.
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Re: "You Have to dominate the champion" - one of the dumbest sayings in boxing?
It is the most retarded statement in boxing, used only by retards funnily enough.
I mean, for it to happen, a judge has to watch a round of boxing where the challenger successfully counter punches the champion, moving backwards for the majority of the round and then turn around and say 'But wait, he is not the champion so he has to take the belt by fighting aggressively!' They make it sound like the champion is actually wearing the belt in the ring, and that the only way for the challenger to win is to physically remove it from his waist. Anyone that cannot see how incredibly dumb that logic is needs a smack and shouldn't watch boxing. :rolleyes:
There is nothing in the rules to say that a fighter should be more harshly judged if he is utilizing a more defensive style than another fighter, being a champion or challenger is irrelevant.
