Obviously Tszyu and Castillo were better than Peterson, but were any of Hatton's opponents (at the time he fought them) better than Peterson?
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Obviously Tszyu and Castillo were better than Peterson, but were any of Hatton's opponents (at the time he fought them) better than Peterson?
It's a good question. Malignaggi was a very good fighter (albiet without any punching power) who had only lost the tough Cotto fight at that point. Collazo was also a very good fighter. Are they better than peterson? I don't know.
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Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Peterson is in his prime and a good fighter. Dougie Fisher of ringtv commented in his mailbag that if he personally did a P4P top 25 as he did when he was at Maxboxing, Peterson would have been in the top 25 prior to this fight.
Depends what your view of Kostya Tszyu is at the time, actually your opinion of Kostya Tszyu probably depends on your opinion of Ricky Hatton ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
Take Tszyu out of the equation and its a fat no, and theres nowt wrong with that. Peterson has proved that he belongs up there with the elite of the 140 division, Hatton proved that he was too good for the rest of the 140lb worlds best. It was when he started bumping heads with 'Great' fighters he came unstuck, and like I said, nowt wrong with that.
It's a good point mate and my opinion (as I've bored people with for years ;D) is that Tszyu was by no means past it, he just didn't like Hatton's tactics and met Hatton on his very best night (by a mile)Quote:
Originally Posted by MemphisDepends what your view of Kostya Tszyu is at the time, actually your opinion of Kostya Tszyu probably depends on your opinion of Ricky Hatton ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
Take Tszyu out of the equation and its a fat no, and theres nowt wrong with that. Peterson has proved that he belongs up there with the elite of the 140 division, Hatton proved that he was too good for the rest of the 140lb worlds best. It was when he started bumping heads with 'Great' fighters he came unstuck, and like I said, nowt wrong with that.
Collazo? (I think thats the closest)
Yea I'm not certain on this either, good question. I'd say Collazo was at least on par with Peterson at the time Hatton fought him... I will also say though, I think Hatton would have beaten Lamont Peterson quite handily on a good night for him. Feel Khan vs Hatton couldve gone either way, I'm more comfortable picking Hatton after the weekend though. Khan really needs to develop some kind of inside game.
Peterson fought the fight of his life against Khan, but Jesus Christ people...
He was dominated by Victor Ortiz and given a very corrupt gift draw which I thought was an outrage at the time.
He was soundly defeated by Tim Bradley.
Hatton STOPPED Kostya Tzyu, Castillo, Carlos Maussa (who one on one I think could beat Peterson), Paulie Malinaggi, and decisioned Juan Urango and got a very close controversial win over Lou Collazo. I thought he lost that one.
Khan overlooked Peterson, and fought stupid, but yes Hatton beat a fair share better men that Peterson.
lol Are you really gonna use a washed up Castillo as reference?? c'mon Hulk.. Carlos Maussa is a vacuum seller and beating him isn't something to brag about.. Same goes for Urango..Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
And besides, many people felt Collazo beat him...
Best thing he ever did was beating an over the hill KOstya Tszyu with the help of a corrupt referee..
If you remember, the referee let Hatton do whatever he wanted and it was a dirty ass fight... Hatton wrestled and rabbit punched his way to a disgraceful victory...
Khan > Hatton
I think Ricky was overrated sure he only lost to the best but he never fought other good fighters in the division such as witter, Zab, cotto you have to think he avoided a certain type of fighter as his style was not suited to them. If I only fought Floyd and lost and was 0 - 1 then me bragging about only losing to the best wouldn't hold much weight.
Damn. A Maussa groupie. Never thought I would ever see one. One has to be a groupie to post thatQuote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
You know the more that time passes the more I respect Hatton as a fighter. He's a bit like Froch for me, doesnt do anything particularly well but manages to be successfull.
For a guy that couldnt box too good, defended with his face which now apparntly housed an OK chin at best, couldnt punch too good the man did alright.
Did Hatton beat anybody better than Lamont Peterson? No, but then again Lamont Peterson is a world class fighter, to beat someone better than Lamont Peterson/world class you're treading into 'great' territory and not too many victories are picked up over great fighters unless your great yourself.
This is bang on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis
Many fans can't seem to differentiate between proven world-class fighters (those that win titles and are independently top 10 ranked) and the the very elite/greats.
All of Hatton's opponents post Tsyzu were independently top 10 world ranked. They were all proven world-class winners. The two that beat him were GREATS.
Same as Peterson. He's lost once in 30 fights to the no.1 guy in the division. He's a proven world-class fighter at 140. There's no disgrace in losing a close fight to him.
Double post, damn iPhone
I thought the Victor Ortiz fight could of gone either way, outside of the 2 knockdowns and maybe a few of the early rounds. I think Lamont Peterson won most of the rounds after the 2 knockdowns.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
To be honest i did refresh my memory on Lamont Peterson before the Amir Khan fight, and didn't think he was overly special. He seemed like decent boxer with good technical skills, but very mediocre in alot of area's.
But maybe what i underestimated was his heart and will, he showed that in coming back vs Victor Ortiz. And he showed that in his actual life aswell living on the streets as a kid, i was very shocked the way he performed. Never thought he had that kind of aggressive fighting in him, he fought like Antonio Margarito who would of ever of thought that ?
He did have half decent boxing skills as shown against Urango, and at a lesser level, against Thaxton. I think when he moved up to world class level, he seemed quite cautious about getting hit, so he began holding a lot. He used to be a much 'cleaner' fighter, albeit it against lesser opposition. I don't know if the holding started because of the Tszyu fight and ultimately his success from doing so in that fight, but he never really showed his boxing skills at world level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis
As for his defence, being honest, it wasn't great. Against fast, slick fighters it was really shown up. Against guys like Urango and Maussa is was fine, because neither were particularly good fighters. Against speed, he didn't have much of an answer - case in point: Collazo, Pacquiao and Mayweather.
His chin, at world level again, not brilliant, but not noticeably bad either. Just average. He got through the Tszyu fight but not allowing Tyszu to set himself to get any leverage on his shots. In any case, Tszyu didn't really land anything clean. He was rocked twice by Lazcano, out on his feet several times against Collazo (neither were big punchers), Knocked out quite badly by Mayweather and knocked out cold by Pacquiao, after being hurt pretty much everytime Pacquiao connected. I don't see how his chin can qualify for anything other than being just average. I don't even mean average in a negative sense. I just mean, it wasn't a great problem, but it wasn't a particular strength either, imo.
As for his power, apart from the Castillo bodyshot (which was excellent) and i suppose the Maussa KO, he never really shown it at world level. It wasn't noticeably any better or any worse than most other top ten contenders. Just good power, but nothing special.
His best two wins were without doubt against Tyszu and Castillo and in their primes, they were much better fighters than Peterson. But he didn't fight them in their primes. Infact, aside from Pacquiao and Mayweather, he fought probably only 4 prime world level fighters and those were....
Urango
Looked very good for the first 6 rounds, but then held for the last 6. Was suffering with illness during the fight so he just did what he had to to win.
Maussa
In truth, shouldn't be anywhere near being a world level fighter, but he beat Vivian Harris (another fighter who shouldn't have been anywhere near 'world level'. Great knockout glossed over quite a poor performance. Maybe too eager to impress, but didn't look great. Won every round mind.
Malignaggi
Looked really good against Paulie, but Paulie for some reason fought one handed. Still Hatton showed his boxing ability and this fight highlighted how good he was at closing the distance and not allowing Malignaggi to set himself.
Collazo
On a round by round basis, i had Hatton winning, but he struggled badly. He was on the verge of being knocked out a few times late on in the fight. Collazo is the only 1 out these 4 who i'd consider to be 'World Class' in terms of ability. The other 3 have to technically be considered 'World Class' because they were in and around the top 5-6 in the world in their division, but that says more about the depth of the division at the time than it does about their own abilities.
Are any of these fighters better than Peterson? Probably only Collazo. And Hatton looked terrible for the most part. So while on paper he has a win over a prime 'World Class' fighter, you couldn't conlusively gaugue how the win would compare to Khan beating Peterson (if that were to happen).
In any case, i think Khan and Hatton are probably on similar levels. I don't think Hatton would be as dominant in this 140lb division as he was whn he was in his prime. The division is stronger now and there are a few slick fighters who'd have given him trouble style wise. Khan included.
Quote:
Originally Posted by onoHe did have half decent boxing skills as shown against Urango, and at a lesser level, against Thaxton. I think when he moved up to world class level, he seemed quite cautious about getting hit, so he began holding a lot. He used to be a much 'cleaner' fighter, albeit it against lesser opposition. I don't know if the holding started because of the Tszyu fight and ultimately his success from doing so in that fight, but he never really showed his boxing skills at world level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis
So the world class opponents ya referring to then is Floyd and Pacman, and these are the only two world class fighters he has ever faced in your opinion :confused:
Just trying to understand your argument thats all ;)
No i think my full post demonstrates that 'world class level' pretty much started when he faced Tszyu and it finished the minute before he stepped in the ring with Juan Lazcano.Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyhitmanQuote:
Originally Posted by onoHe did have half decent boxing skills as shown against Urango, and at a lesser level, against Thaxton. I think when he moved up to world class level, he seemed quite cautious about getting hit, so he began holding a lot. He used to be a much 'cleaner' fighter, albeit it against lesser opposition. I don't know if the holding started because of the Tszyu fight and ultimately his success from doing so in that fight, but he never really showed his boxing skills at world level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis
So the world class opponents ya referring to then is Floyd and Pacman, and these are the only two world class fighters he has ever faced in your opinion :confused:
Just trying to understand your argument thats all ;)
By definition, Urango, Collazo, Malignaggi, Maussa (yes i know) and the like are all 'world class' because they were either belt holders or they were in and around the top 3 or 4 in their division (maybe Paulie was slightly lower).
But this thread is a comparison thread, and out of the above, i'd only consider Collazo being as good (probably better) than Peterson.
I'd seperated Tszyu and Castillo because, although they were great wins, i was talking about the 'prime world class' fighters Hatton had beaten.
Yeah, that's a bit of hyperbole isn't it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
Ortiz probably should have dominated Peterson. He had all the physical advantages and badly hurt him a number of times. But Peterson just outwilled him, and because of that he got won rounds and got back into the fight.
The fight showed comparisons to Hatton v KT. The hometown fighter raising his performance by that additional 10-20% than what he's showed in his career to date.
Wheather Peterson can replicate that performance again is to be seen.
My bet is that if this fight was re-matched in Vegas then Khan would win a UD by a few rounds.
In answer to the original question, then yea Hatton beat many better than Peterson. Urango, Castillo, Paulie i reckon beats Peterson, prime Tackie even, Collazo etc.
Time will tell, but if the rematch gets made, which would make sense for Peterson, get it in Vegas at the MGM grand, big payday for him, probably a bigger payday than any other fighter out there in the division, but ultimately loses the belts.
I think you're under-estimating Peterson a fair bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattyhitman
Ben Tackie
Juan Urango
Paulie Malignaggi
Jesus wept.
Even the Castillo who Hatton beat looked incredibly shop-worn, as his performances directly before and immediately after the Hatton fight show.
It's all about opinions, to be honest I would give the MaGee and Phillips that fought Hatton a chance against him, anywho you mentioned Urango in your war and peace post :DQuote:
Originally Posted by onoI think you're under-estimating Peterson a fair bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattyhitman
Ben Tackie
Juan Urango
Paulie Malignaggi
Jesus wept.
Even the Castillo who Hatton beat looked incredibly shop-worn, as his performances directly before and immediately after the Hatton fight show.
It's all about opinions, to be honest I would give the MaGee and Phillips that fought Hatton a chance against him, anywho you mentioned Urango in your war and peace post :DQuote:
Originally Posted by onoI think you're under-estimating Peterson a fair bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattyhitman
Ben Tackie
Juan Urango
Paulie Malignaggi
Jesus wept.
Even the Castillo who Hatton beat looked incredibly shop-worn, as his performances directly before and immediately after the Hatton fight show.
Tszyu was better even at that stage, probably no one else at that weight but Collazo would have been better than Peterson at welterweight.
Oumafan ! Its good to see you again, even if its only to contradict me ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by OumaFanYeah, that's a bit of hyperbole isn't it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
Ortiz probably should have dominated Peterson. He had all the physical advantages and badly hurt him a number of times. But Peterson just outwilled him, and because of that he got won rounds and got back into the fight.
I only had Peterson winning 3 rounds in that fight, so Ortiz was pretty dominant I felt.