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This would be a very interesting matchup, granted Kirkland gets past Molina first of course.
Would Cotto weather the storm and then use his superior boxing skills to dominate Kirkland ?
Or would James Kirkland overwhelm Cotto with youth, rage and aggression ?
IMO it's a bit of a 50/50 fight, Kirkland is a hot and cold type fighter, he looked awesome against Angulo but well Angulo is tailor made for him, a come forward fighter who doesn't have a wide variety of punches, and we saw that Kirkland's chin is still vulnerable but nowhere near as bad as it looked against Ishida, Angulo blew his load (similar to Mike Jones in his first fight with Karass) and well didn't have a plan B, Kirkland has the strength and physicality to win against Cotto, but will he be able to deal with his movement, his jab, counterpunching, will he be able to cut off the ring effectively against a guy who's a lot smarter in the ring than Angulo, but on the flipside can Cotto deal with Kirkland's power, his work rate, etc., should be a good fightQuote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
The Molina fight should kind of show us how Kirkland will deal with someone like Cotto. I think Kirkland is too much of a beast of the current Cotto tbh..
Kirkland can apply the simliar pressure that Margarito did, except he's still fresh with two healthy eyes, plus he hits harder, punch for punch..
Cotto would box well in spots but eventually fold under the pressure.
Kirkland TKO8 Cotto
I think Cotto would wins if he keeps the fight at a boxing pace. In a lot of ways Kirkland fights like Margarito, a lot of pressure, unbelievable cardio and outstanding heart but Cotto wins this fight from sheer ring generalship(like he did against Antonio) keeping off the ropes and keeping it a boxing match. Cotto certainly comes out the victor i think but you never know, Cotto, in his mid 30's is getting slightly weathered and the furious regime of Anne Wolf may be Kirkland's saving grace but still you never know look at Khan/ Peterson
I get what you mean but Cotto is 31 lolQuote:
Originally Posted by ReBeL BLacK
Gotta agree. Cotto has some wear and tear. But I think he has the arsenal off jab and has been in enough fire fights to deal mentally and physically with a face first Kirkland.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReBeL BLacK
Kirkland is still Kirkland and still gets and will get caught when he rushes in by straight punches and hard jabs. He is working on slipping but his aggresion and being so tense comes back to bite him. You could time Angulos punches with a sun dial and he knows very little about boxing off the back foot really. I think Cotto weathers the initial storm and times the hell out of Kirkland for a tko.
Could you envision a Cotto vs. Ricardo Torres scenario ?Quote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliGotta agree. Cotto has some wear and tear. But I think he has the arsenal off jab and has been in enough fire fights to deal mentally and physically with a face first Kirkland.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReBeL BLacK
Kirkland is still Kirkland and still gets and will get caught when he rushes in by straight punches and hard jabs. He is working on slipping but his aggresion and being so tense comes back to bite him. You could time Angulos punches with a sun dial and he knows very little about boxing off the back foot really. I think Cotto weathers the initial storm and times the hell out of Kirkland for a tko.
I could, except with an aging Cotto not quite having enough to pull it out against the young lion.
Doesn't anyone want to see Cotto/ Alverez?Quote:
Originally Posted by HulkCould you envision a Cotto vs. Ricardo Torres scenario ?Quote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliGotta agree. Cotto has some wear and tear. But I think he has the arsenal off jab and has been in enough fire fights to deal mentally and physically with a face first Kirkland.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReBeL BLacK
Kirkland is still Kirkland and still gets and will get caught when he rushes in by straight punches and hard jabs. He is working on slipping but his aggresion and being so tense comes back to bite him. You could time Angulos punches with a sun dial and he knows very little about boxing off the back foot really. I think Cotto weathers the initial storm and times the hell out of Kirkland for a tko.
I could, except with an aging Cotto not quite having enough to pull it out against the young lion.
Puerto Rico vs Mexico once again yeah?
^^ I would love to see that happened but with Top Rank managing one fighter and Golden boy the other i'm doubtfulQuote:
Originally Posted by ReBeL BLacKDoesn't anyone want to see Cotto/ Alverez?Quote:
Originally Posted by HulkCould you envision a Cotto vs. Ricardo Torres scenario ?Quote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliGotta agree. Cotto has some wear and tear. But I think he has the arsenal off jab and has been in enough fire fights to deal mentally and physically with a face first Kirkland.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReBeL BLacK
Kirkland is still Kirkland and still gets and will get caught when he rushes in by straight punches and hard jabs. He is working on slipping but his aggresion and being so tense comes back to bite him. You could time Angulos punches with a sun dial and he knows very little about boxing off the back foot really. I think Cotto weathers the initial storm and times the hell out of Kirkland for a tko.
I could, except with an aging Cotto not quite having enough to pull it out against the young lion.
Puerto Rico vs Mexico once again yeah?
Kirkland can't take a punch like Margarito can though and that is what would make this fight interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
That and the fact that he hits about 5x as hard as Margarito ever did.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHKirkland can't take a punch like Margarito can though and that is what would make this fight interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
But I still think Cotto wins it. His boxing and footwork looked great against Margarito. Kirkland is still extremely raw.
As a latin poster on this forum I would love to cheer for Cotto to win, he is a thinking mans fighter and is a exciting to watch....as a member of this forum I'd love to see this fight and see Cotto get F'd up.
I'd have to favour Cotto
The old skool Cotto would get his head blown off but this new Cotto would out jog Kirkland and land some flurries here and there. But I would love to see Kirkland catch up to him and just end Cotto's career already!
Can't explain it but i have a real irrational hate for that man now...
Cotto has gone from a banger to a slick boxer with very good footwork and tricky combinations. I believe he beats Kirkland.
Don't really understand how you could hate him.
Cotto by KO after 8 rounds , i just think Cotto is still too good for Kirkland even though for 5-6 rounds it would be a great fight.
Cotto's experience would tell as he would pace himself better and has the better arsenal of punches
Maybe in a year or 2 its a different result as Cotto nears retirement
Cotto wins EASY...if the glacially slow Alfredo Angulo can drop Kirkland (and I don't think Angulo even hits all that hard to begin with) then a faster, slicker, more powerful puncher like Cotto would wreck Kirkland.
Kirkland is a beast, don't get me wrong, but he's to wild in his attack which leaves him open to counters. Cotto meanwhile has never been blasted out with 1 shot, it takes a measured and sustained attack over a number of rounds to beat him.
I think Cotto-Martinez is MUCH closer
This is never going to happen unless Kirkland transforms into a PPV fighter because Cotto doesn't fight these types of fights anymore unless its for big, big money. That doesn't even take into consideration the GB/TR beef, which itself could prevent this fight from ever happening.
Arum has done a great job with Cotto in recent times and Top Rank isn't just going to fall off all of a sudden. Cotto made large money against Pacquiao even though he lost. Then Cotto fought Yuri Foreman in Yankee Stadium as his foray into the junior middleweight division. Foreman is a competent boxer but not the type to beat Cotto so not much risk. A Jew fighting a Puerto Rican at Yankee stadium - how wouldn't it sell? Cotto made big money there. Then Cotto fights Ricardo Mayorga, a fight that is low risk given Mayorga's current state, but Mayorga is still a big name and Cotto makes money on that. Finally, Cotto faces Margarito at MSG in a remath of one of the top fights of recent memory. Just a wonderful job guiding him.
What we haven't seen is Cotto facing any top ten junior middleweight other than Foreman who was a good match-up for Cotto and regardless was a good money-making fight. I'm not taking anything away from his performance against Margacheato, but Margacheato wasn't even ranked in the top ten at junior middleweight when they clashed.
Frankly, the fight that makes the most sense in the near future, as another poster mentioned, is against Saul Alvarez because it could be a PPV and make Cotto a boatload of cash. However, that fight won't likely happen b/c of the GB/TR beef.
You certain that Cotto-Alvarez is a better fight than Cotto-Martinez? I think Cotto vs Sergio would be a huge fight
Cotto beats him, kirkland fights with pressure just like margarito but he doesnt have the chin to take the shots from cotto. If cotto boxes smart he stops Kirkland sometime after the 8th round.
I think it would be earlier than that...surely Cotto hits quicker and harder than Angulo or Ishida. I would say more in the 3-6 round range. Angulo and Ishida don't have the killer instinct or preciseness in their attack, Miguel can put punches together extremely well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Manos de Piedra
I don't see Kirkland being a problem for Cotto, mainly because of James' suspect chin, and the fact that Cotto is far more experienced and fought elite competition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
It would be a huge event. Cotto has just said in the past that he won't fight Martinez so I don't consider it even an option.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Agreed. And while Martinez is obviously the better fighter, I think at Alvarez at this point sells more tickets and PPVs.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratIt would be a huge event. Cotto has just said in the past that he won't fight Martinez so I don't consider it even an option.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Martinez/Cotto is a better fight though. I'm nowhere near sold on Alvarez. That Gomez fight was telling.
That's true. Taking the Ishida fight into account Cotto can have him out in 1. I just don't see Kirkland winning or the fight going the distance.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongI think it would be earlier than that...surely Cotto hits quicker and harder than Angulo or Ishida. I would say more in the 3-6 round range. Angulo and Ishida don't have the killer instinct or preciseness in their attack, Miguel can put punches together extremely well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Manos de Piedra
but Kirkland wouldn't be going into a fight with Cotto with the same mentality that he had against Ishida, so I doubt very much that it would end in one round, Kirkland has always had an iffy chin, Julio was able to wobble him, as was Angulo, if Cotto can take Kirkland's punch and use his skill and movement he would wear Kirkland down lateQuote:
Originally Posted by Manos de PiedraThat's true. Taking the Ishida fight into account Cotto can have him out in 1. I just don't see Kirkland winning or the fight going the distance.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongI think it would be earlier than that...surely Cotto hits quicker and harder than Angulo or Ishida. I would say more in the 3-6 round range. Angulo and Ishida don't have the killer instinct or preciseness in their attack, Miguel can put punches together extremely well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Manos de Piedra
Regardless of the old or new Cotto, Kirkland will get caught time and time again, he does not have great ring awareness(ala Angulo right hand 1st round) I think Cotto would outclass the guy plain and simpleQuote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus
I disagree. Angulo isn't a speedster, but he isn't glacially slow. And I think he hits harder than Cotto, he's a lot bigger man than Cotto.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongI think it would be earlier than that...surely Cotto hits quicker and harder than Angulo or Ishida. I would say more in the 3-6 round range. Angulo and Ishida don't have the killer instinct or preciseness in their attack, Miguel can put punches together extremely well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Manos de Piedra
I agree, Cotto would end it early because Kirkland only knows one way to fight. Kirkland would come right at Cotto, and Cotto would be forced to fight, lights out for James, who has limited boxing skills and a suspect chin.
apparently canelo is fighting cotto or kirkland
I'd love to see this fight and debating it in my own mind right now, I think cotto's movement and his sharp combinations forces a late stoppage win, round 9. Great fight tho hope it happens!
MARK MY WORDS RIGHT NOW!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Tam Seddon
IF A FIGHT BETWEEN SAUL ALVEREZ AND JAMES KIRKLAND WERE TO HAPPEN IT WILL BE FIGHT OF THE YEAR
Am I right
the two relentless styles would be an amazing matchup
I don't know about Kirkland v Canelo, mainly from Canelos point of view. Think it's way to much risk-reward ratio for him at this time though I think he could handle him. People just need to steeeep back and keep perspective on Kirkland. This is a dude that is a couple fights removed from getting dropped wobbled and going splat and having his short comings literally exposed. He's off a high profile win but still needs to work on holes. He shouldn't be hell bent on having it happen again anytime soon
I think it would be good whilsts it lasts but I think Alvarez wouldnt punch himself out like Angulo did against Kirkland if he hurt him. He's a very mature fighter for his age and looks very composed and I think he would beat Kirkland in a great fight. Although Kirkland is more than likely to truely test his chin properly I think he lacks the ability that Alvarez has and that is what the difference would be in the fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReBeL BLacKMARK MY WORDS RIGHT NOW!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Tam Seddon
IF A FIGHT BETWEEN SAUL ALVEREZ AND JAMES KIRKLAND WERE TO HAPPEN IT WILL BE FIGHT OF THE YEAR
Am I right
the two relentless styles would be an amazing matchup
This will be Cotto/Torres 2 i see Miguel Cotto being stunned and quite possibly dropped, but his superior boxing skill's and defence see's him through and he gets a stoppage late on.
My heart says Cotto.
My mind says this fight will never happen.
Yeah you are very right, Alvarez is the youngest Champion in Boxing today and despite him being so young he fights and portrays the arts of a seasoned experienced veteran. As I realize now I am not sure Alvarez will fully intend to square up with Kirkland like Angulo did but who knows, Alvarez might trade with him and create a Berto/Ortiz, or Haggler/Hearns type of Brawl I think its possible if it were to take place, both guys must go forward. I already know Kirkland will but its up to the way Saul fights that will depict the flow of the bout. Do you guys think that the fight will ever even happen?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tam SeddonI think it would be good whilsts it lasts but I think Alvarez wouldnt punch himself out like Angulo did against Kirkland if he hurt him. He's a very mature fighter for his age and looks very composed and I think he would beat Kirkland in a great fight. Although Kirkland is more than likely to truely test his chin properly I think he lacks the ability that Alvarez has and that is what the difference would be in the fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReBeL BLacKMARK MY WORDS RIGHT NOW!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Tam Seddon
IF A FIGHT BETWEEN SAUL ALVEREZ AND JAMES KIRKLAND WERE TO HAPPEN IT WILL BE FIGHT OF THE YEAR
Am I right
the two relentless styles would be an amazing matchup
yeah thats a perfect point. I m not trying to make Kirkland sound like a highly elite fighter because he is not, I think that he still needs a lot of work and one good shot that he will not get back up from will send his career spiriling down like when he lost to Nobuhiro Ishida. The fighter needs a lot of work still and the question isQuote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
We know Anne Wolf has regained his passion but can she refine his boxing craft and overall patience and skills? he will need all of that in a beautiful combination and harmony to fight the true elites the: Cotto's Alvarez, Martinez etc
His backdrop is an amazing story of triumph and I am so interested to see how far this guy can get
I disagree. At this stage, Kirkland would bum rush Alvarez and take him out early. Alvarez completely has the potential to beat Kirkland up in a few years. Kirkland versus Alvarez is a natural fight right now. Both are Golden Boy. Kirkland is coming off a career-defining win over Angulo, a fellow Mexican. It would be huge. Kirkland has no problems making the fight. Why would he? The risk is worth the upside. The fight isn't happening now because it's too big a risk for Alvarez at this stage of his development. Alvarez hasn't even faced a proper 154 top guy yet. I thought Cintron would be that guy, but Cintron was a shell of his former self, whatever self that was to be fair. I'm withholding judgment on Alvarez until I see him in with a live dog at 154 like a Vanes Martirosyan, Carlos Molina, K9 Bundrage, Dzinziruk, even a Paul Williams. Beating Hatton, Rhodes, Gomez and Cintron just hasn't convinced me.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReBeL BLacKYeah you are very right, Alvarez is the youngest Champion in Boxing today and despite him being so young he fights and portrays the arts of a seasoned experienced veteran. As I realize now I am not sure Alvarez will fully intend to square up with Kirkland like Angulo did but who knows, Alvarez might trade with him and create a Berto/Ortiz, or Haggler/Hearns type of Brawl I think its possible if it were to take place, both guys must go forward. I already know Kirkland will but its up to the way Saul fights that will depict the flow of the bout. Do you guys think that the fight will ever even happen?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tam SeddonI think it would be good whilsts it lasts but I think Alvarez wouldnt punch himself out like Angulo did against Kirkland if he hurt him. He's a very mature fighter for his age and looks very composed and I think he would beat Kirkland in a great fight. Although Kirkland is more than likely to truely test his chin properly I think he lacks the ability that Alvarez has and that is what the difference would be in the fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReBeL BLacKMARK MY WORDS RIGHT NOW!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Tam Seddon
IF A FIGHT BETWEEN SAUL ALVEREZ AND JAMES KIRKLAND WERE TO HAPPEN IT WILL BE FIGHT OF THE YEAR
Am I right
the two relentless styles would be an amazing matchup
I agree with you, Cotto's a 1st class guy in my book - he seems genuine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gocougars3