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What do you guys think of him as a fighter? i personally think hes one of the best to ever do it, just suffered from no discipline like many...and how would he do in a hypothetical match against marvelous marvin, joe calzaghe(i had too), and b hop.
Also who would you think hed match up well with
I HATE James Toney. But putting that aside, I think he'd lose against Hagler and probably Hopkins. Hagler was just a machine at middleweight, with an iron chin to go with it. Hopkins, on the other hand, was the ultimate crafty fighter, at his peak. He would always find a way to win, whether it be by mauling, fouling.... and he always had the right game plan, like admittedly against Trinidad. Calzaghe? I'm not sure on that one. Calzaghe was pretty busy, but not much of a puncher. The fight would probably be a bit of a bore, but I'm thinking Toney at his peak would've probably eked out a win by decision.
The inside fighting between toney and hagler would be mind boggling to watch. I say toney beats him.
I hate to say it but Calzaghe beats toney..
Toney beats the dog shit out of hopkins.
With that said, Toney is one of the very few boxers around today who can claim to be a throwback fighter. Toney is a natural fighter, a true throwback from the 40s and 50s. He would have kicked ass in any era.
No way Toney beats Marvelous Marvin. Hagler was in there with a lot of excellent fighters and always came out on top. He had few, if any weaknesses. And as for "throwback fighters"? Marvin was as old school as they come. I doubt Toney would've been able to withstand the flurry that Thomas Hearns unleashed on Hagler... and even Mugabi would've given Toney a run for his money, for that matter.
One of the best and most enjoyable things I've ever seen is that effortless inside shoulder roll by Toney that culminated with a shock absorber 6' inch right hand. It was not trained, it was like genetics with him. I love Toney at best, his guile and a swagger that left lesser foes in a fetal position just hoping to stay upright.
He was however and flat out...lazy. He was a master at timing out rounds, slow of foot though his positioning made up for alot of that but he simply could be out hustled and turned. If you sat in the pocket, shame on you but guys who didn't blink and had volume and mobility could bug the shit outta him. He is and was one of the deepest fight minds to come around but he doesn't get a pass on being 'drained at middle' etc etc for lapses. It became a mantra and speaks to the discipline I think he'd lack to beat a Hagler and or Hopkins. Toney already lost to Calzaghe but his name was Tiberi :D I kid I kid. Hopkins was as every bit an old school cagey gritty pro as a Toney, fact that he's still shot calling at top level speaks for itself.
My all-time favourite fighter.
Think many a great would beat him but a REAL tough guy and an entertainer.
Anyone here think Haglers whiskers could carry him to heavyweight?
Tells you something, that.
I remember Toney, shooting his mouth off on tv against Benn,
you can see why he was never Mr popular,what a horrible
individual.;D
The guy has skills and the fight game comes natural to him. Great defense, made it look easy. Tough guy with a great chin but no discipline.
Toney beats Hopkins. Hagler beats Toney in a tough close fight with great inside fighting and great chins. I'm not too sure on how Toney would do against Calzaghe's work rate, but I lean toward Calzaghe's work rate to get him a close decision.
Beautiful fighter to watch in his prime. Harder on the eyes in his big man pomp, but still winning all the rounds. One of my favourite fighters.
But Calzaghe against Toney and it's the same old story. Toney is going to get outworked something rotten. Toney at his best can take Hagler, but it depends on which one shows up. The sloppy ones have no chance.
There is no way Toney could have kept up with the pressure and workrate of the Marvelous one .:cool:
James Toney would have lost to quite a few past greats, but would have beaten a few greats also, going from MW to HW is just amazing , great fighter ?
Yes Mr Toney you are a great.
People are seriously overrating Hagler or underrating Toney cuz a hagler victory aint no foregone conclusion but from the looks of it, seems like people are automatically putting one over the other.. It's like how dudes assume Ray Robinson would beat Ray Leonard just because of the aura that the former fighter has..
Assuming this is the best version of Toney VS the best of Hagler, I go with Toney....
Toney imo doesn't like fleet footed opponents who give him alot of movements and Hagler sure doesn't fit that mold.. Toney is at his best when guys come at him and dudes get picked apart in that situation.. This is Toney's zone and Hagler would play right into it..
Forget about a freakin Knockout cuz Hagler punches aint gonna do shit to Toney.. he'd probably laugh it off...
The fight would take place alot from the midrange and on the inside and nobody's beating Toney in that area.. Not even hagler..
Toney > Hagler
I'll stack up the list of Hagler's opponents against the list of Toney's opponents any day of the week. No comparison. You think Hagler's overrated and Toney's underrated.... I think totally the opposite. Never could understand people's being so enamoured of this Toney dude. 'Bout the only amazing thing he did was go from MW to HW, albeit a blubbery, shit-talking, slurring HW.... but he still managed to hang with some of the mediocre HW's in the division at the time. Two fighters I could never understand the big deal were James Toney and Riddick Bowe. Lots of similarities there. What was Toney's biggest scalp? Michael "Second to" Nunn? Pleeeease, spare me. Hagler fought better competition in a 2-3 year stretch than all Toney's opponents put together.
I think you could also argue that someone like Calzaghe would play right into Toney's hands by presenting him with a wealth of countering opportunities. I could see Toney walking right through Calzaghe's flurries, taking away his work rate away with sharp right hands, and beating him on the cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
Toney is an all time great. Him, Hopkins and Jones are just about the last of the all time greats still fighting, Holyfield aside.
I really think Toney would time Calzaghe and put him on his ass. Maybe even KO him. Toney fought a lot better competition and carried one punch power at that weight.
As great a fighter James Toney wos a had the misfortune ov watching a repeat ov his last outing against lebedev!fucking sad!before every1 jumps on me! A know this is a shadow ov the great fighter he wos but it wos horrible to c!not convoked thow prime Toney would beat a prime JC.just like every1 else joe's workrate would b to much for him.
I thought Toney was a very very good fighter.
He was a throwback fighter insofar that he learned his trade, he had all the old pro tricks and I think he would have fitted in very well with the likes of Jack Dempsey, Joe Jeannette or Sam Langford travelling up and down the country fighting anyone in a bar for a few dollars. He was tough as nails, skilled, good chin, arrogant and (for a while) he was probably one of the standout performers of his era.
For me, he just falls short of true 'greatness' though. He wasn't recognised as a world champ for long enough and he lost some his big fights. Unfortunately, the truth of the matter is that he was lazy. He frequently turned up to fight in poor shape, his lifestyle meant that he wasnt the best he could be
Because of the above, I do think Calzaghe had the style to beat him, just as Roy Jones had his number. Toney's style would have been harder for hagler to deal with (Marvin liked to come forward, and he could get outboxed by a real slickster). It would be a good fight, but I think that Hagler always entered the ring in top shape, he was even tougher than Toney and I think he would have found a way to win.
Doesn;t stop James Toney being a very very good fighter though.
Toney will take a year off to recover from his injury and go back fighting bums but wanting to fight the Kilts.
James Toney only got outworked when he wasn't interested, and lazy like against Dave Tiberi. For example a Southpaw who liked to throw flurries, who was even more talented than Joe Calzaghe aka Michael Nunn he was able to KO him impressively.
Didn't he also deal with relentless pressure from a big Cruiserweight like Vassiliy Jirov ? so i don't see Joe Calzaghe just winning on workrate, against a prime interested James Toney no way in hell.
James Toney would be rolling with those flurries all night long, and he would be countering with right hands right down the pipe. He would probably drop Joe Calzaghe aswell en route to a decision win.