In my estimation, Bradley does. However, for those that believe Cotto does, I am curious to hear your reasoning.
In my estimation, Bradley does. However, for those that believe Cotto does, I am curious to hear your reasoning.
Like most people, I agree with you that Bradley has the better chance (though I still favor Pacquiao). I just think Cotto has virtually no chance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
i voted bradley
thing is, since the fights both lb4lb'ers had with JMM (obviously pacs more recent one) mayweather has been put on even more of a platform
i think if cotto has anything left he is the best fighter mayweather has faced for a long while
and cotto is being written off mainly coz of the way pac took care of him
I voted Bradley. Pacquaio is aging, and Bradley is still a young pup.
But people are writing Cotto off too quickly. The guy is most certainly not shot. He's got almost as much of a chance as Bradley does.
With only 41.3% ko rate, I don't think Bradley has a chance of pulling off an upset. He aint' gonna outbox Pac if that's what you're thinking. That's nowhere his gameplan. Hes gonna get timed and probably will get hurt badly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
Anyways. Cotto can execute a hail mary punch, and Bradley can't.
Yeah. Just like that. As simple as that. :)
Bradley can't punch. It's one of his weaknesses. However, he can box and is quick. He also can be rough. He's got a shot of stealing rounds and winning on the cards. The fight could end in the 7th after a head butt opens up a cut on Pacquiao and when it goes to the cards, Bradley is up. I see a scenario like that as more likely than Cotto winning.Quote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::With only 41.3% ko rate, I don't think Bradley has a chance of pulling off an upset. He aint' gonna outbox Pac if that's what you're thinking. That's nowhere his gameplan. Hes gonna get timed and probably will get hurt badly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
Anyways. Cotto can execute a hail mary punch, and Bradley can't.
Yeah. Just like that. As simple as that. :)
Bradley doesn't have the power to KO Pacquiao, but he has the stamina and physical strength to maul and pressure Manny to a decision win, Marquez hasn't come close to stopping Manny but he's whooped that ass 3 times alreadyQuote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::With only 41.3% ko rate, I don't think Bradley has a chance of pulling off an upset. He aint' gonna outbox Pac if that's what you're thinking. That's nowhere his gameplan. Hes gonna get timed and probably will get hurt badly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
Anyways. Cotto can execute a hail mary punch, and Bradley can't.
Yeah. Just like that. As simple as that. :)
Cotto has the weight advantage, has big fight experience, is using his technical ability a lot more in recent fights, has shown better stamina in recent fights, so IMO he has just as good a chance as anyone, that said Mayweather still wins
I don't see either guy winning but I picked Bradley just because his head butts may open up a early cut on Pacquiao's eye, which will affect Pac's vision and allow Bradley to steal rounds leading to a close decision win.
I voted Cotto. Bradley is going to try and walk in and rough Pacquiao up and the last time saw someone try to come forward and be very agressive vs Pac was Hatton. So I see Bradley being the victim of a brutal KOQuote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesBradley doesn't have the power to KO Pacquiao, but he has the stamina and physical strength to maul and pressure Manny to a decision win, Marquez hasn't come close to stopping Manny but he's whooped that ass 3 times alreadyQuote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::With only 41.3% ko rate, I don't think Bradley has a chance of pulling off an upset. He aint' gonna outbox Pac if that's what you're thinking. That's nowhere his gameplan. Hes gonna get timed and probably will get hurt badly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
Anyways. Cotto can execute a hail mary punch, and Bradley can't.
Yeah. Just like that. As simple as that. :)
Cotto has the weight advantage, has big fight experience, is using his technical ability a lot more in recent fights, has shown better stamina in recent fights, so IMO he has just as good a chance as anyone, that said Mayweather still wins
I think the claims that Bradley cannot punch are ridiculous. Just because he hasn't KO'd many people doesn't mean he doesn't hurt opponents.
You only have to watch his fights to see what a beating he has put on top level opposition. Peterson, Casamayor, Witter, Campbell, Alexander, all world champions in the last couple years were all floored or punched into submission by him.
He's like Calzaghe or Hopkins. Don't let the KO ratio fool you, he's very capable of hurting guys and no top fighter has been able to cope with him yet.
He's a legit threat to Manny who I feel is on the slide. He's been complaining about his legs in all three of his last fights. This could be a long night for him and I'd not be surprised a bit if Bradley manages to outwork him down the stretch.
For me it's close to a 50/50 fight at this point. I really think Manny is going to get bloodied up and battered.
Bradley has a great chance of beating Paq on a unanimous dec.
Cotto is a great warrior and will battle hard but will lose on a cut eye stoppage sometime around the 9th
job biscuit (but will be cheering 4 Cotto)!!!
eh eh
I guess we can finally agree on something ^^^this.Quote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::With only 41.3% ko rate, I don't think Bradley has a chance of pulling off an upset. He aint' gonna outbox Pac if that's what you're thinking. That's nowhere his gameplan. Hes gonna get timed and probably will get hurt badly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
Anyways. Cotto can execute a hail mary punch, and Bradley can't.
Yeah. Just like that. As simple as that. :)
Also, Mayweather is going up to Cotto's comfortable's weight (no weight draining or catchweight) so it gives Cotto juuuuuuust a little bit more of a possibility of doing something vs Mayweather.
PSL and Chino for once agree! It's ironic that the people who view Bradley as having no shot are either (1) Huge Manny Pacquiao Fans or (2) Those that Hate Manny Pacquiao.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChinoI guess we can finally agree on something ^^^this.Quote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::With only 41.3% ko rate, I don't think Bradley has a chance of pulling off an upset. He aint' gonna outbox Pac if that's what you're thinking. That's nowhere his gameplan. Hes gonna get timed and probably will get hurt badly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
Anyways. Cotto can execute a hail mary punch, and Bradley can't.
Yeah. Just like that. As simple as that. :)
Also, Mayweather is going up to Cotto's comfortable's weight (no weight draining or catchweight) so it gives Cotto juuuuuuust a little bit more of a possibility of doing something vs Mayweather.
However, I disagree with you both. I've been a big Tim Bradley fan for a long time; I've rode with the Desert Storm since before he went across the pond, as an underdog, to beat up Junior Witter, when Junior Witter was still legitimate. He has a lot of skills. The common critique of Timothy Bradley is that he is good at a lot of things, but not great at any one thing. I concede that I understand that point, but I believe it's not actually true. If you watch Timothy Bradley closely, you'll see a high level of defense and footwork that is way above average. He also knows how to move well and moves in arcs. Maintaining his distance and using his footwork could lead him to victory against Manny Pacquiao.
Bradley's power isn't great, but it's sufficient to keep Manny honest. Remember Bradley has fought at 147 before, and he beat an undefeated fighter. Bradley is too good for Manny to just walk through him. The issue for Bradley will be whether he can deal with Manny's southpaw stance and whether he can avoid Manny's patented odd-angled shots for a whole 12 rounds.
Quote:
PSL and Chino for once agree! It's ironic that the people who view Bradley as having no shot are either (1) Huge Manny Pacquiao Fans
Actually, Huge Manny Pacquiao fans will inflate this fight saying Bradley is such a big risk, a super awesome fight, etc. Just to make Manny look great if he wins, which seems like the bigger possibility.
Quote:
Bradley's power isn't great, but it's sufficient to keep Manny honest. Remember Bradley has fought at 147 before, and he beat an undefeated fighter. Bradley is too good for Manny to just walk through him. The issue for Bradley will be whether he can deal with Manny's southpaw stance and whether he can avoid Manny's patented odd-angled shots for a whole 12 rounds.
I also wonder how his chin will take Pacquiao’s punches and the weight where they are meeting. What do you think Bradley has better than Pacquiao?
Bradley has much better chance, of course..
Cotto aint got a snowball's chance in hell.. Not only is he facing the greatest active fighter but he's fighting a man with 2 eyes...
Floyd-Cotto is one of the biggest mismatches ever..
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
Haven't gotten over the humiliating defeat by Margacheato, huh?
;)
Too bad...... bro.
u trippin..lol U gotta handle the truth .. This aint got nothing to do with Margarito but Floyd just has the style and the tools to dissect and beat Cotto's ass.. That's all im sayin bruh..Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
Haven't gotten over the humiliating defeat by Margacheato, huh?
;)
Too bad...... bro.
Definitely Tim Bradley. Pac is showing different kinds of chinks. He can't close down people who move and he struggles with effective countering. Bradley can do what he does well, learn from others and maybe even work his way to a decision. Cotto on the other hand is going to struggle to land anything clean all night. This isn't Margarito he is facing and Mayweather has already shown he can handle 154.
You seldom hit Mayweather clean, but it's not unusual to see Manny cut and I think that is likely against Bradley.
I voted Bradley because he is more complete and is closer to Pac's level.
As opposed to Cotto who's been to hell & back and is not as close to PBF's level.
Thinking about it more though:
Cotto has a bodyshot that can fold PBF.
Bradley can only try to rough Pac up thru 12.
Bradley and it's not even close imo. He is a fairly live dog to me, and at the least will put up a good scrap.
If Pac is at his best he totally pummels the average Bradley , i think Cotto has more of a chance personally , as he is at a good weight for him , and Floyd as good as he is hasnt fought in a while.
Pac stops Bradley late .
Cotto gets outpointed , but i give him a chance.
Bradley get's ko , and Cotto takes a hiding.
Mayweather has only fought four rounds in the last year, and he ended his last fight by throwing a cheap shot. You're giving the guy WAY too much credit.
His last opponent was shit, too. Ortiz has only had ONE good fight.
/facepalm. I hate biased Mexicans.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesBradley doesn't have the power to KO Pacquiao, but he has the stamina and physical strength to maul and pressure Manny to a decision win, Marquez hasn't come close to stopping Manny but he's whooped that ass 3 times alreadyQuote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::With only 41.3% ko rate, I don't think Bradley has a chance of pulling off an upset. He aint' gonna outbox Pac if that's what you're thinking. That's nowhere his gameplan. Hes gonna get timed and probably will get hurt badly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
Anyways. Cotto can execute a hail mary punch, and Bradley can't.
Yeah. Just like that. As simple as that. :)
Cotto has the weight advantage, has big fight experience, is using his technical ability a lot more in recent fights, has shown better stamina in recent fights, so IMO he has just as good a chance as anyone, that said Mayweather still wins
It somewhat blows my mind that people are doubting Bradley. He's on p4p lists for a reason...
War Desert Storm!
Ahem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
1 month sig bet? ;D
Umm.. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesBradley doesn't have the power to KO Pacquiao, but he has the stamina and physical strength to maul and pressure Manny to a decision win, Marquez hasn't come close to stopping Manny but he's whooped that ass 3 times alreadyQuote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::With only 41.3% ko rate, I don't think Bradley has a chance of pulling off an upset. He aint' gonna outbox Pac if that's what you're thinking. That's nowhere his gameplan. Hes gonna get timed and probably will get hurt badly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
Anyways. Cotto can execute a hail mary punch, and Bradley can't.
Yeah. Just like that. As simple as that. :)
Cotto has the weight advantage, has big fight experience, is using his technical ability a lot more in recent fights, has shown better stamina in recent fights, so IMO he has just as good a chance as anyone, that said Mayweather still wins
l don't think so.
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-...41609250_n.jpg
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-...61208422_n.jpg
Technically, Pac won the first fight also. Judge Clements admittedly made a mistake on his scoring in round 1. FACT! Look it up.
;) Tsk!
Chino, Manny fans will say it's a great win and those that hate Manny will say it wasn't because it was an easy fight. I guess it goes both ways and that is why you agree with PSL.
I'm a Desert Storm fan so you know where I stand.
I believe Bradley has a number of advantages over Manny: (1) he is fresher than Manny; (2) he can out-think Manny in the ring e.g. make adjustments on the fly; and (3) he is better defensively than Manny. His speed matches Manny or is close to Manny's. Bradley is in his prime and he is undefeated, which just means he doesn't know how to lose. He also has great stamina and will go strong for a full 12 rounds.
Manny isn't a big welterweight by any stretch of the imagination. In my estimation, Manny is more suited to junior welterweight. Bradley has fought at 147 before and was successful there. He didn't appear slower than he is at 140.
I believe Bradley is a live dog in this one. I sincerely do. I also said JMM was a live dog in Pacquiao's last fight where many posters here thought Pacquiao was picking on an old, has-been in JMM. Pacquiao destroys offensive fighters and fighters that are slower than him, but he has a tougher time with defensive fighters and fast fighters. Bradley can be both. I would be super impressed with Pacquiao if he dominated Bradley.
If you asked me to handicap it, I would say 60/40 Pac, or maybe 65/35 Pacquiao. Pac should be favored. He hits with punches that opponents don't see coming. As you pointed out, he could do that to Bradley and it would be lights out.
However, Chino, don't let your hatred for Pacquiao turn you off to Bradley as an opponent. On the contrary, root for Bradley because there is a real possibility Pacquiao will be swept away by the Desert Storm in June. If you loathe Pacquiao with such verocity, surely Pacquiao being defeated by anyone is something you can support. I guarantee Bradley has a decent shot of pulling off the upset.
I see Pac pretty much dominating Bradley, but there's a good chance that Cotto will be competitive with Floyd. Because, Mayweather hasn't been an 'active' fighter the last 5 years, and Cotto figures to land some heavy punches. Question is, if the fight turns into a war of attrition, can Floyd handle that, and/or how will he react if he gets hit with a big shot? I believe Cotto will test his chin.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
PSL - you've seen my posts before so you know I don't dislike Manny and he's not one of my favorite fighters at the same time.Quote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::Ahem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
1 month sig bet? ;D
I handicap this fight as approximately 60/40 Manny so I'm not sure I'll go with a straight bet here. I'll need to really analyze it a bit more. We could bet that Bradley does a better job than Cotto?
Absolutely KILLS me to say this...but..you're right :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
This is exactly why people think Bradley has more chance. I still think Cotto is a much better fighter than Bradley is, so based on that I voted Cotto.
The last performances of both Floyd and Pacquaio have separated the two in many people's eyes and that's why the fight seems closer than it is.
For me Floyd is going into territory where he didn't look his best (154) and Bradley is going up to 147 (where the first and last time he did, he didn't look great I hear) - Cotto has more experience, better C.V, weight advantage. He is just facing the better opponent.
I still would favour him to trouble Floyd more than Bradley will Pac. I think Pac will have one of those nights against Bradley where he looks a million bucks. I could be wrong of course.
The voting says more about what people think of the skills of Mayweather and Pacquiao rather than their two opponents IMO.
I'm looking forward to both fights - They're both good scraps.
Oh, also took into consideration the last two performances of Bradley and Cotto. While both of their opponents weren't great, Margarito surely had more in the tank than Casamayor did and Bradley looked lethargic where as Cotto looked GOOD.
I agree in part. There are two reasons why Bradley has a better shot than Cotto. We agree on one.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlthugzAbsolutely KILLS me to say this...but..you're right :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
This is exactly why people think Bradley has more chance. I still think Cotto is a much better fighter than Bradley is, so based on that I voted Cotto.
The last performances of both Floyd and Pacquaio have separated the two in many people's eyes and that's why the fight seems closer than it is.
For me Floyd is going into territory where he didn't look his best (154) and Bradley is going up to 147 (where the first and last time he did, he didn't look great I hear) - Cotto has more experience, better C.V, weight advantage. He is just facing the better opponent.
I still would favour him to trouble Floyd more than Bradley will Pac. I think Pac will have one of those nights against Bradley where he looks a million bucks. I could be wrong of course.
The voting says more about what people think of the skills of Mayweather and Pacquiao rather than their two opponents IMO.
I'm looking forward to both fights - They're both good scraps.
(1) Mayweather is tougher to beat than Pacquiao. We agree on this point.
People view Floyd as unbeatable and Pacquiao as ready to be taken. Can the Cotto who Manny ko'd, and has been ko'd before, beat someone who hasn't looked beatable since Castillo I? Conversely, can Bradley, who has never lost, and in his prime, beat Pacquiao who looked very human in his last fight? The answer is obvious.
(2) Given Pacquiao's current state, and strengths/weaknesses, Bradley is a tougher opponent than Cotto.
El Terrible and the other proud Puerto Rican boxing fans, please note that I'm not talking the seek-and-destroy machine that was Cotto pre-Margacheato I. I'm also not talking legacy and hall of fame potential because Cotto wins hands down. I'm talking contemporary Cotto.
Bradley is more difficult than the current Cotto for five reasons not in order. (1) Desire: Bradley is hungrier than Cotto. Cotto is out there for a pay check (yes, El Terrible, he deserves it!). (2) Tasting Defeat: Bradley has never tasted defeat and Cotto has capitulated twice in big fights. (3) Primes: Cotto is passed his prime. I'm not saying Cotto is shot, but he's passed his best years, and Bradley is smack in the middle of his prime. (4) Styles: It appears Pacquiao struggles with defensive, counter-punching types, and Bradley can do both. Cotto has morphed into a boxer-puncher, as opposed to his old puncher-boxer if that makes sense, and you can't outbox Mayweather. (5) Speed: Bradley matches Pacquiao's speed or is very close to it. Cotto isn't close to matching Mayweather's hand speed.
To your points in favor of Cotto:
I don't see the weight as being an issue for either fight. Mayweather is going up in weight to 154, but Cotto is a tiny junior middleweight. Cotto isn't even a true junior middleweight in my humble opinion, and probably is best at 150 now. I actually think with the right conditioning, he still could be a welterweight, he's just not that hungry at this point in his career. Bradley has been effective at 147. He looked good against Abregu. Manny isn't a big welterweight, and generally weighs around 145 for the weigh-in anyway. Moreover, Bradley actually looked bigger than Manny at their recent press conference.
Cotto has the advantage in experience over Bradley, but he's lost against his best opponents. Bradley has beat his best opponents. It's not like Bradley has been with bad opposition by any means either. He's travelled to hostile territory (Witter). He's beat slick fighters (Alexander), pressure fighters (Peterson), and punchers (Holt).
The question posed was who has a better shot at the upset, and to me, it's Bradley, hands down.
At the same time, Cotto-Mayweather should be more fun to watch than Pacquiao-Bradley and will do better ppv numbers.
Bradley was coming off a relatively long lay off and Casamayor didn't do Bradley any favors by holding and punching low. Casamayor made that fight ugly and it wasn't like Bradley did poorly either in that he stopped Casamayor in the 8th round. Cotto didn't stop Margarito, the ref stopped Margarito, and conveniently pretty early in my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Althugz
;DQuote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratPSL - you've seen my posts before so you know I don't dislike Manny and he's not one of my favorite fighters at the same time.Quote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::Ahem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
1 month sig bet? ;D
I handicap this fight as approximately 60/40 Manny so I'm not sure I'll go with a straight bet here. I'll need to really analyze it a bit more. We could bet that Bradley does a better job than Cotto?
Forget it papi.
If you're really a huge Bradley fan, then you support him whatever risks hes gonna go through.
It's only a sigbet btw.
Cotto, no doubt. ;)
Bradley is the younger man, the bigger man (he fought at 152 in the amateurs I believe and weighs mid 150s walking around), and he has the ginormous dome that cuts you up.
Tim Bradley throws a punch and then follows it up with the head.
It's like he knows he's gonna get his ass kicked. he says "if" so many times all ready showing his insecurity.Quote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::
I agree with Rantcatrat, Great post.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratI agree in part. There are two reasons why Bradley has a better shot than Cotto. We agree on one.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlthugzAbsolutely KILLS me to say this...but..you're right :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
This is exactly why people think Bradley has more chance. I still think Cotto is a much better fighter than Bradley is, so based on that I voted Cotto.
The last performances of both Floyd and Pacquaio have separated the two in many people's eyes and that's why the fight seems closer than it is.
For me Floyd is going into territory where he didn't look his best (154) and Bradley is going up to 147 (where the first and last time he did, he didn't look great I hear) - Cotto has more experience, better C.V, weight advantage. He is just facing the better opponent.
I still would favour him to trouble Floyd more than Bradley will Pac. I think Pac will have one of those nights against Bradley where he looks a million bucks. I could be wrong of course.
The voting says more about what people think of the skills of Mayweather and Pacquiao rather than their two opponents IMO.
I'm looking forward to both fights - They're both good scraps.
(1) Mayweather is tougher to beat than Pacquiao. We agree on this point.
People view Floyd as unbeatable and Pacquiao as ready to be taken. Can the Cotto who Manny ko'd, and has been ko'd before, beat someone who hasn't looked beatable since Castillo I? Conversely, can Bradley, who has never lost, and in his prime, beat Pacquiao who looked very human in his last fight? The answer is obvious.
(2) Given Pacquiao's current state, and strengths/weaknesses, Bradley is a tougher opponent than Cotto.
El Terrible and the other proud Puerto Rican boxing fans, please note that I'm not talking the seek-and-destroy machine that was Cotto pre-Margacheato I. I'm also not talking legacy and hall of fame potential because Cotto wins hands down. I'm talking contemporary Cotto.
Bradley is more difficult than the current Cotto for five reasons not in order. (1) Desire: Bradley is hungrier than Cotto. Cotto is out there for a pay check (yes, El Terrible, he deserves it!). (2) Tasting Defeat: Bradley has never tasted defeat and Cotto has capitulated twice in big fights. (3) Primes: Cotto is passed his prime. I'm not saying Cotto is shot, but he's passed his best years, and Bradley is smack in the middle of his prime. (4) Styles: It appears Pacquiao struggles with defensive, counter-punching types, and Bradley can do both. Cotto has morphed into a boxer-puncher, as opposed to his old puncher-boxer if that makes sense, and you can't outbox Mayweather. (5) Speed: Bradley matches Pacquiao's speed or is very close to it. Cotto isn't close to matching Mayweather's hand speed.
To your points in favor of Cotto:
I don't see the weight as being an issue for either fight. Mayweather is going up in weight to 154, but Cotto is a tiny junior middleweight. Cotto isn't even a true junior middleweight in my humble opinion, and probably is best at 150 now. I actually think with the right conditioning, he still could be a welterweight, he's just not that hungry at this point in his career. Bradley has been effective at 147. He looked good against Abregu. Manny isn't a big welterweight, and generally weighs around 145 for the weigh-in anyway. Moreover, Bradley actually looked bigger than Manny at their recent press conference.
Cotto has the advantage in experience over Bradley, but he's lost against his best opponents. Bradley has beat his best opponents. It's not like Bradley has been with bad opposition by any means either. He's travelled to hostile territory (Witter). He's beat slick fighters (Alexander), pressure fighters (Peterson), and punchers (Holt).
The question posed was who has a better shot at the upset, and to me, it's Bradley, hands down.
At the same time, Cotto-Mayweather should be more fun to watch than Pacquiao-Bradley and will do better ppv numbers.
Man saying "Bradley has beat his best opponents and Cotto has lost to his best opponents" is the worst argument of all time..You just compared Margarito (with loaded gloves which he avenged with relative ease) and Manny Pacquiao to Junior Witter (really??), Peterson, Holt and Alexander....
Apart from that, Rantacrat, I can see your other points as being pretty valid - We are both obviously looking at this from different angles. Some things you see as an advantage/disadvantage for Bradley/Cotto, I see as a disadvantage/advantage in vice versa.
We'll have to see how the fights pan out..