-
Marquez-Naz? Why did Marquez blatantly refuse to fight Naz? Fact.
Marquez was offered a career high payday. He refused. Fact.
Even with a guaranteed spectacular KO loss to Naz, Marquez would still be a great. I don't get it?
-
Re: Marquez-Naz? Why did Marquez blatantly refuse to fight Naz? Fact.
Still carrying the torch for the former court jester, eh?
It was bad enough Barrera made him eat a turnbuckle. Would you have wanted to see a repeat humiliation against Marquez? I know I would have enjoyed it.
;)
-
Re: Marquez-Naz? Why did Marquez blatantly refuse to fight Naz? Fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Marquez was offered a career high payday. He refused. Fact.
Even with a guaranteed spectacular KO loss to Naz, Marquez would still be a great. I don't get it?
This is news to me, I don't recall JMM ever avoiding anyone, especially a clown like Naz.
Stirring up a little shit are we Fenster? :scratchchin:
-
Re: Marquez-Naz? Why did Marquez blatantly refuse to fight Naz? Fact.
gee wasn't it Hamed who only fought once more after getting his ass raped by Barrera then went on to retire so that he could get into spherical body building?!?
-
I hope this is a poor attempt at humour, Fenster..
-
Re: Marquez-Naz? Why did Marquez blatantly refuse to fight Naz? Fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Althugz
I hope this is a poor attempt at humour, Fenster..
I'm pretty sure it is, Fenster likes to stir the pot. fact!
-
Re: Marquez-Naz? Why did Marquez blatantly refuse to fight Naz? Fact.
The masterful gameplan, boxing IQ, composure, discipline and sheer GRIT that Naz showed against Barera must have scared Marquez.
-
Re: Marquez-Naz? Why did Marquez blatantly refuse to fight Naz? Fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Marquez was offered a career high payday. He refused. Fact.
Even with a guaranteed spectacular KO loss to Naz, Marquez would still be a great. I don't get it?
He was scared, after what he saw Naz done to all opponents pre MAB, he wanted no part of Naz!
-
Re: Marquez-Naz? Why did Marquez blatantly refuse to fight Naz? Fact.
The first incarnation of this topic was legendary with Factser playing with VD like they were Naz and Jose Badillo respectively.
http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...tory-fact.html
Classic Saddo thread ;D
-
Re: Marquez-Naz? Why did Marquez blatantly refuse to fight Naz? Fact.
Does Hamed still resemble a waking taking real life Mr. Potato head these days?
-
Re: Marquez-Naz? Why did Marquez blatantly refuse to fight Naz? Fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Memphis
What a perfect example. Love it. ;D
-
Re: Marquez-Naz? Why did Marquez blatantly refuse to fight Naz? Fact.
Listen boys i'm just stating a fact. I love Marquez.
As I've already said - being brutally knocked out Augie Sanchez style (he took Marquez date) wouldn't have stopped Marquez from becoming the great he is.
-
Re: Marquez-Naz? Why did Marquez blatantly refuse to fight Naz? Fact.
He's baiting. But it would be a good thread if it was about how the hypothetical fight would have gone.
Marquez would get knocked down early and come back to school Naz the rest of the fight.
-
Re: Marquez-Naz? Why did Marquez blatantly refuse to fight Naz? Fact.
No featherweight in history EVER saw the final bell after being knocked down by Naz. Fact.
The very fact that Marquez has suffered four knockdowns at featherweight, statistically proves that if Marquez goes down he loses. It's undeniable.
-
Re: Marquez-Naz? Why did Marquez blatantly refuse to fight Naz? Fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Memphis
Funny stuff, I didn't read all of it, but I imagine the thread escalated into VD threatening to rape Fenster's momma or some such shit.
-
Re: Marquez-Naz? Why did Marquez blatantly refuse to fight Naz? Fact.
Auguie sanchez was a walking concussion with the defensive stealth of Tex Cobb. Jar jar Naz was not hard to counter himself.
-
Re: Marquez-Naz? Why did Marquez blatantly refuse to fight Naz? Fact.
Fenster brings this up every couple of years. I am sure at the time JMM was avoided by Naz because he was the number 1 contender. Naz did beat and unify the division so he could legitimately say he had bigger fish to fry.
-
Re: Marquez-Naz? Why did Marquez blatantly refuse to fight Naz? Fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
No featherweight in history EVER saw the final bell after being knocked down by Naz. Fact.
The very fact that Marquez has suffered four knockdowns at featherweight, statistically proves that if Marquez goes down he loses. It's undeniable.
Name a fighter of Marquez's calibre that Hamed fought? Other than MAB (we sll remember how that turned out) there's none... Stastics prove nothing re: Marquez - he's on another level to any that goblin boy ever floored.
Thats like saying a scooter has never overtaken my 1.0ltr car... So stastically a Harley couldn't either.
-
Re: Marquez-Naz? Why did Marquez blatantly refuse to fight Naz? Fact.
Look i'm just stating facts. I'm not giving an opinion.
You hit the deck against Naz you get knocked out. It's a 100% irrefutable fact. Whether or not Marquez hits the deck against Naz is debatable. However, anyone that thinks he would have, has to accept he's only leaving the ring after tasting smelling salts.
You get knocked down you don't get up again, you'll never get up again. Fact.
Whoomp there it is!
-
Re: Marquez-Naz? Why did Marquez blatantly refuse to fight Naz? Fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Look i'm just stating facts. I'm not giving an opinion.
You hit the deck against Naz you get knocked out. It's a 100% irrefutable fact. Whether or not Marquez hits the deck against Naz is debatable. However, anyone that thinks he would have, has to accept he's only leaving the ring after tasting smelling salts.
You get knocked down you don't get up again, you'll never get up again. Fact.
Whoomp there it is!
its true! i hear there are still all you can eat restaurants all over england that still haven't recovered from a visit from the prince.
-
Re: Marquez-Naz? Why did Marquez blatantly refuse to fight Naz? Fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Fenster brings this up every couple of years. I am sure at the time JMM was avoided by Naz because he was the number 1 contender. Naz did beat and unify the division so he could legitimately say he had bigger fish to fry.
Yes... I was wondering if anyone else had noticed that. It's kinda sad, really. Dredging up the same old tired argument and trying to pass it off as a fact. Me -- while I enjoyed Naz's ridiculous ring entrances and annoying way of conducting himself in the ring (in a sick, "laugh-at-you" kind of way) -- I enjoyed Barrera's thrashing of the Prince even more. There's nothing anyone can say that in my mind proves the ludicrous statement that JMM ever ducked Naz. I'm more inclined to believe it would be the other way around. And had the fight actually happened... it would've probably been Barrera-Naz Part II.
Fact. ;)
-
Re: Marquez-Naz? Why did Marquez blatantly refuse to fight Naz? Fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Look i'm just stating facts. I'm not giving an opinion.
You hit the deck against Naz you get knocked out. It's a 100% irrefutable fact. Whether or not Marquez hits the deck against Naz is debatable. However, anyone that thinks he would have, has to accept he's only leaving the ring after tasting smelling salts.
You get knocked down you don't get up again, you'll never get up again. Fact.
Whoomp there it is!
Again, you can't use what Hamed did against B fighters and old men to conclude what would have happened if he'd knocked down a FUTURE P4P elite.
You're talking about a guy who got up repeatedly vs PAC and continued to a draw (some would argue win)
The Goblin would do well to put hin down even once, let alone keep him down.
Based on Marquez rising time and time against the sports p4p 1 or 2... If we're dealing with 'facts' he'd do it against a 1d hype job.
(fact)
-
Re: Marquez-Naz? Why did Marquez blatantly refuse to fight Naz? Fact.
Why are we assuming that Naz would knock JMM down in the first place?
:headscratch:
-
Haha I'm surprised none of you saw this comin from fensters post in the "I'm so bored thread" in the "other" forum
-
Re: Marquez-Naz? Why did Marquez blatantly refuse to fight Naz? Fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Why are we assuming that Naz would knock JMM down in the first place?
:headscratch:
We're not, but Fenster thinks that IF he did he would get stopped.
Manny Pacquio couldn't and I'm sure Fenster knows he can punch 'a bit' and maybe had 'a bit' more class than Hamed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1DXmoERWpE
-
Re: Marquez-Naz? Why did Marquez blatantly refuse to fight Naz? Fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
armin
Haha I'm surprised none of you saw this comin from fensters post in the "I'm so bored thread" in the "other" forum
It's a boring topic though.
Lets humour Fenster and pretend Marquez did duck Hamed.
What would it prove?
Does Hamed have a W over Marquez? No
Did not fighting Hamed hurt Marquez's career or legacy? No
Did Hamed ever beat a fighter as good as Marquez? No
Did Hamed go on to have the career or prestige Marquez now has? No
Did Hamed show he had the heart and discipline to beat a smart, hungry, young ELITE? No
There's some facts for you facster.
Discuss
-
Re: Marquez-Naz? Why did Marquez blatantly refuse to fight Naz? Fact.
Naz would have had every chance of flooring Marquez, without a doubt. He had the power to do it, I believe he could well of sparked him.
-
Re: Marquez-Naz? Why did Marquez blatantly refuse to fight Naz? Fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Fenster brings this up every couple of years. I am sure at the time JMM was avoided by Naz because he was the number 1 contender. Naz did beat and unify the division so he could legitimately say he had bigger fish to fry.
Yes... I was wondering if anyone else had noticed that.
It's kinda sad, really. Dredging up the same old tired argument and trying to pass it off as a fact. Me -- while I enjoyed Naz's ridiculous ring entrances and annoying way of conducting himself in the ring (in a sick, "laugh-at-you" kind of way) -- I enjoyed Barrera's thrashing of the Prince even more. There's nothing anyone can say that in my mind proves the ludicrous statement that JMM ever ducked Naz.
I'm more inclined to believe it would be the other way around. And had the fight actually happened... it would've probably been Barrera-Naz Part II.
Fact. ;)
You can believe whatever you like pal. But it is a 100% bombproof FACT that Marquez turned down a career high payday to face Naz. The evidence is there for all to see.
Now i'm sorry if that upsets you but i'm just producing the info. Don't shoot the messenger.
-
Re: Marquez-Naz? Why did Marquez blatantly refuse to fight Naz? Fact.
AdamGB,
Fenster didn't even say Naz would knock him down. I just produced a statistic that shows Naz has a 100% KO record when decking opponents (at 126). This statistic strongly suggests that Naz could have KO'd Marquez had he floored him. I didn't say he would have.
I'm merely revealing what the stats say.
I don't know who would have won between Naz-Marquez. I 100% firmly believe though that Marquez would have still become a GREAT even with a spectaular one-punch KO loss, inside three rounds probably, to the Naz fella. That's all i'm saying.
-
Re: Marquez-Naz? Why did Marquez blatantly refuse to fight Naz? Fact.
Fun Fenster Facts
Hamed's last 5 stoppages have been knocked the fuck out a total of 17 times. (that ratio is only going to rise the further back you go too)
I don't recall him EVER knocking out a fighter who wasn't knocked out by somebody else at some point.
The fighters who Naseem couldn't stop have a total of 16 knockouts by other fighters.
Now I'm not saying that he had no power, but as with any British fighter who is half decent - his record and power are over hyped and over rated.
-
Re: Marquez-Naz? Why did Marquez blatantly refuse to fight Naz? Fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
AdamGB,
Fenster didn't even say Naz would knock him down. I just produced a statistic that shows Naz has a 100% KO record when decking opponents (at 126). This statistic strongly suggests that Naz could have KO'd Marquez had he floored him. I didn't say he would have.
I'm merely revealing what the stats say.
I don't know who would have won between Naz-Marquez. I 100% firmly believe though that Marquez would have still become a GREAT even with a spectaular one-punch KO loss, inside three rounds probably, to the Naz fella. That's all i'm saying.
Failster is looking at the facts in an inverted way... as I have said... instead of looking at what Naseem did against C and B level fighters and old men you should be looking at what Marquez did against YOUNG, ELITE or flat out top P4P fighters who put him down.
pac put him down 3 times - he still only got a draw
katsidis put him down - he got TKO'd by JMM
floyd put him down - he still had to box 12 rounds to a UD
All 3 of these fighters are either bigger, stronger, more powerful, or just LEAGUES better than Hamed... of the 3 that put JMM down... only one even managed to get a win out of it. None got a stoppage.
You WANT hamed to be better than he was, so you're looking at it backwards. Same as when people wanted Hatton to beat Floyd and Pac... so they looked at it through rose tinted glasses.
I already gave you plenty of 'stats' showing why Naseem's power was over rated, there's some facts showing what has happened when people have put JMM down.
-
Re: Marquez-Naz? Why did Marquez blatantly refuse to fight Naz? Fact.
Another shut out UD to the 2nd high calibre opponent he'd faced would have hurt Hamed's career and legacy A LOT.
Just ask him why he retired after barrera schooled him and his lacklustre UD win against a B fighter after that.
-
Re: Marquez-Naz? Why did Marquez blatantly refuse to fight Naz? Fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AdamGB
Another shut out UD to the 2nd high calibre opponent he'd faced would have hurt Hamed's career and legacy A LOT.
Just ask him why he retired after barrera schooled him and his lacklustre UD win against a B fighter after that.
I think it was more to do with 9/11 and not many people at that time being keen on a boxer making his way to the ring shouting "Allah is great"
Also I feel what happened to Paul Ingle played a bigger part in the decision than most would imagine.
add to that the fact he was a young millionaire settled down with his newly formed family and had fallen out of love with training played a big part in things :)
-
Re: Marquez-Naz? Why did Marquez blatantly refuse to fight Naz? Fact.
If he wasn't an egotistical narcissist I would agree 100% ;)
-
Re: Marquez-Naz? Why did Marquez blatantly refuse to fight Naz? Fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AdamGB
Another shut out UD to the 2nd high calibre opponent he'd faced would have hurt Hamed's career and legacy A LOT.
Just ask him why he retired after barrera schooled him and his lacklustre UD win against a B fighter after that.
Marquez dodged him before the Barrera fight. Marquez wasn't a big name back in 2000. That's why I was wondering why he refused to fight.
As I keep saying - Marquez would still have been great even with a Naz KO loss on his record.
-
Re: Marquez-Naz? Why did Marquez blatantly refuse to fight Naz? Fact.
AdamGB,
Those are rubbish stats that prove nothing. The more you fight the more chance of getting KO'd. That's obvious.
All you've done is inadvertently highlight just what a truly phenomenal puncher Naz was.
Naz had 16 "world" title wins. What do these guys have in common?
Robinson
Lawal
Alecia
Medina (cuts loss)
Molina
Johnson
Cabrera
Badillo
Kevin Kelley (corner retirement)
Ingle
Bungu
Ready? They were all suffering their FIRST ever sparkage loss to Naz. Repeat - FIRST ever sparkage loss. None of these men, which includes "world" champions, had EVER been stopped until feeling the power of the Rocket Launchers. What happened AFTER is irrelevant.
Only Wayne McCullough, who the Incredible Hulk couldn't flatten and Soto, who had never been off his feet went the distance.
Naz fella = extraordinary sparkage ability. Fact.
-
Re: Marquez-Naz? Why did Marquez blatantly refuse to fight Naz? Fact.
Heard you the third time mate.
Hamed wasn't great and a 2nd shut out loss to only the 2nd real fighter he'd faced would have been even more damaging than the Barrera spectacle.
-
Re: Marquez-Naz? Why did Marquez blatantly refuse to fight Naz? Fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
AdamGB what do these guys have in common?
Robinson
Lawal
Alecia
Medina (cuts loss)
Molina
Johnson
Cabrera
Badillo
Kevin Kelley (corner retirement)
Ingle
Bungu
They're all B fighters with multiple knockout losses? ;)
Don't give me that 'doesn't matter what happened after shit - just cos it suits your agenda. Buster Douglas was the first to tko tyson, is he an ATG? No? Look what happened to buster afterwards.
If buster had went on to not stink the loss would have hurt tysons legacy less. What happens aftet counts. Don't ignore the facts that don't suit you.
Hamed never stopped somebody who nobody else didn't. Stone hard fact for the facster.
If we're talking about what people have in common - the only fighter comparable to JMM on Hameds record is BARRERA. Not down, not rocked, not hurt, not even close.
-
Re: Marquez-Naz? Why did Marquez blatantly refuse to fight Naz? Fact.
For what it's worth, I always thought Naz was more of an entertainer then a fighter. His style was very unorthodox to say the least, he got by with it until he ran into a no nonsense, counter puncher, (Barrera) who exposed his glaring flaws. Naz's inability to move up to the elite level was predictable, he lacked the conventional boxing skills and heart, needed to get there.
BTW, George Foreman used to be a Naz fanboy (go figure), I believe he actually cried when Naz got his ass handed to him by MAB, true story.
-
Re: Marquez-Naz? Why did Marquez blatantly refuse to fight Naz? Fact.
Yes... A good showman and devestating against lower calibre opponents, that's about it.