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With the advent of UFC and its offshoots, plus the lack of real talent in the heavyweight division today do you feel that Rocky Marciano is unknown or overlooked to all but the die hard boxing fan or at least known only to those over a certain age...
Rocky was a great undefeated heavyweight but there were many ties and rumours about his mafia connections so who knows how many fights he should have won or lost.Quote:
Originally Posted by John Cameron
Obviously, he was a great fighter but prime for prime he would not have beaten johnson, lennox or tyson and he even tommy gun would give him problems.
you can only be as good as your era.
You can fuck right off with that talk! "Lack of real talent in the heavyweight division"....horse shit! Lack of depth, yes, but the Klitschko's have plenty of talent.Quote:
Originally Posted by John Cameron
No one ever in the history of MMA or UFC will EVER achieve anything close to what Rocky Marciano accomplished in boxing.
Please feel free to correct me if i'm wrong imp, but I've read tons of literature about Marciano, and other then him being an Italiano, I don't recall much of anything about Rocky having mob/mafia connections.Quote:
Originally Posted by impRocky was a great undefeated heavyweight but there were many ties and rumours about his mafia connections so who knows how many fights he should have won or lost.Quote:
Originally Posted by John Cameron
Obviously, he was a great fighter but prime for prime he would not have beaten johnson, lennox or tyson and he even tommy gun would give him problems.
Marciano is one of those Heavyweight greats along with Johnson, Jefferies, Dempsey, Louis, Ali, et al, who will never be forgotten. As for the UFC, it's still "green" and unlike Pro Boxing, it remains to be seen if it will stand the test of time.Quote:
Originally Posted by John Cameron
He was of his era and eras ultimately shape history. He isn't relevant today, but his mark in history is cemented.
Not sure if your asking if he's relevant or 'known' really, but I guarantee most mma types as well as boxing fans recognize the name. Nice tie in though :-X
Of course Marciano is relevant, the man retired undefeated HW champion of the world not to many
people are undefeated so that is a feat in itself.
Can't argue with that, but I would argue, that there are many other HWs through history that would also have finished 49-0 should they have fought Marciano's opposition at the stage in the careers of those he fought.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia bando
I no what you mean but you still have beat them, and you can only fight who's about at that time.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG HCan't argue with that, but I would argue, that there are many other HWs through history that would also have finished 49-0 should they have fought Marciano's opposition at the stage in the careers of those he fought.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia bando
Marciano was a great HW and a boxing legend, but IMO is one of the most overrated boxers of all time, due in large part to the fact that he had a pretty, undefeated record. Well, Sven Ottke also retired undefeated but how many times do you hear his name come up when talking about modern greats? Like mentioned above, there are a LOT of HWs of past and present who would have retired 49-0 had they fought the same opposition.
When I hear people call him the greatest HW of all time, or say that he would have whipped Muhammad Ali (often citing that computer fight, ugh), I feel physically ill. Marciano would have been BRUTALIZED by the bigger HWs after him (Liston, Foreman, Frazier, Tyson, Lewis, Bowe, ect ect) and IMO would have been beat by a few of the HWs before him (including prime Joe Louis and Jack Johnson). He sure as hell would have been outpointed by the bigger, faster, slicker, more skilled guys of the late 60s/70s like Ali, Holmes, probably even guys like JImmy Young.
Even his power is overrated. We've all heard the tales of how he had a heavy bag specially made for him, how he threw punches like he threw fastballs, ect ect. Don't get me wrong, Rocky could hit with the best of them, but he had a "break you down" power, not the huge one-punch bombs that guys like Foreman or Tyson had. Disagree? Watch Rocky's fights against guys like Don Cockell and tell me that you could invision Foreman, shavers, Tyson, Liston, ect hitting Cockell with as many flush punches and Rocky did without him going down.
I've read extensively about Marciano, several books, numerous magazine stories, from a variety of sources, written when he was champ, over the course of all the years since, and I have NEVER read of him having Mafia ties. I have NEVER read that any of his wins may have been 'fixed', and I cannot recall the suggestion ever having been made.Quote:
Originally Posted by impRocky was a great undefeated heavyweight but there were many ties and rumours about his mafia connections so who knows how many fights he should have won or lost.Quote:
Originally Posted by John Cameron
Obviously, he was a great fighter but prime for prime he would not have beaten johnson, lennox or tyson and he even tommy gun would give him problems.
Plenty of greats get overrated look at Ali for fucks' sake! When people never question his spot as "The Greatest of All-Time" (a nickname he gave HIMSELF :vd: ) it makes me sick because HANDS DOWN Joe Louis was the greatest heavyweight ever...it's not even close!
As for Marciano and his power? Rocky had great stamina, he was awkward, and rugged. Rocky would wear guys down, it's true, but for being a shade under 190 he had very good power. Would he lose vs bigger slicker boxers like Beanflicker described, perhaps, would he get mowed down by Foreman? More than likely. But I wouldn't put it past Rocky to handle Shavers (Tex Cobb beat him for Heaven's sake) or Floyd Patterson, and if he lasted past 5 vs Tyson I'd favor Marciano to come from behind and stop him...let's be honest 'Iron' Mike didn't have an iron will in the ring and Rocky wasn't one to get scared by anybody.
I think Marciano draws the most praise and ire of boxing fans because of his record, his opponents, his race, his background. He didn't CHOOSE his era, nobody gets to do that, he was a great heavyweight (in my top 3), he's a record holder, and he was a quality champion. Whether or not he would be an effective heavyweight today is an erroneous point, he was effective in his era and retired on top....it's all you can say. If Rocky was the same size and fighting these days with the advances in health care, fitness, and training he'd be a light heavyweight and I doubtless say he would clean house at 175 to Cruiserweight vs current competition. Marciano is a legend of the heavyweight division 49 (43 KO)-0-0 ...he fought through adversity, pain, and he had heart, that's what people will always remember about The Rock, he had big heart.
Yes Lyle.:appl:Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Well said. Good stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong