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I have just been watching some of Lennox Lewis' greatest performances and as Marciano's biographer I am struggling to compare the two, Lewis is one of those who was underrated in his day and even now is overlooked, I rarely question who could have beaten who, but what do you feel would have happened if Marciano faced Lewis ? Personally I find my answer in Lennox's two one punch losses, with out those it would be difficult to honestly answer the question...
Different eras always difficult to compare and predict
But if they both met in their prime I think Lewis would batter him to a 5 round defeat and leave him in a right mess to be honest.
Not sure on actual sizes but wouldnt Lewis enjoy like a 6" height, 4 stone weight and a good 12 " reach advantage ?!?
Would be much like a Klitschko mismatch these days against a little guy - though Lewis being more skilled than them and braver would get the job done quicker.
If size was not an issue then it would be a competitive fight because Rocky could fight up to any skill level and Lennox could fight down to any skill level. Marciano never came out flat for a fight that I know of, whereas Lennox was known to do so and he had troubles with opponents he should have demolished: McCall, Rahman, Bruno.
It's just a very odd match to even attempt to think about because Rocky was under 190 and Lennox usually 240 or higher. Rocky fought in an era where everyone was roughly the same size, nobody towered over him, nobody used their height to supreme advantage like Lewis and he wouldn't have fought anyone as strong as Lewis. Let's not be naive here, Rocky could get hurt, he could get caught off balance and knocked down and since size routinely played a factor in Lennox's ability to hold on in difficult fights it's hard to take that part out of this fight even if it's hypothetical.
I find myself more intrigued by a Marciano-Tyson matchup as they were closer in size & stature. Rocky being 5'11, 188 pounds, 67" reach and Tyson being 5'10, 218 pounds, 71" reach...I mean 30 pounds isn't too terrible but when you're talking about giving up 40-50 pounds you're sure as hell going to notice a difference. Rocky vs Dempsey, Johannsen, Tunney, Holyfield, Liston, Bob Foster, Joe Frazier, Floyd Patterson, Michael Moorer, Michael Spinks, Dwight Qawi, Dick Tiger etc those smaller heavyweights, larger/better skilled light heavyweights & cruisers are the ones I'm more curious about.
Nice post.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
It's a bit of a crude comparison but if an ancient mongoose could knock down rocky, wouldn't a taller stronger fresher lewis have an easier time?
I'm trying to think how Marciano could deliver power to the head of a guy who far taller than him consistantly and I'm riddled with a lot of "if he does this, then this then if this..etc" so I think if they were to fight 10 times Lewis would win the majority of them.
Comparisons between different eras don't really work.
If you had Rocky from the 1950's fighting Lennox from the 2000's, as Lyle says there is only going to be one winner. Lewis would be too big, too strong and too technical for Rocky.
Having said that, I think that Asafa Powell can run 100 metres faster than Jesse Owens ..... but that does not make him a GREATER 100m runner. For me, greatness is about how much better you are than your competion and how you dominate your era.
An even more complicated way is to pretend that Lewis was born in the 1930's and then have that version of him fighting Marciano. I would think that Lewis would have been lighter (nutritional science was not as advanced), thinner and a bit tougher than he was in 2000. maybe a bit like Ernie Terrell in the 1960's. Marciano would have a good chance against that Lewis.
Imagine, then, Rocky having been born in the 1980's. I reckon he would be a super middleweight warrior. he would never had got in the ring with Lewis, but he would possibly have dominated the supermiddles for quite some time!
I think size wise, Marciano allthoigh about the same size height wise as Tyson, wouldnt have lasted as long as the old Tyson did with Lewis.
At first, I wanna say the much bigger/taller/stronger Lewis would destroy Rocky. But the more I think about it, I believe Marciano would be more than competitive, especially when you think of Lewis' chin, which at times wasn't all that great. Not to stay on the fence, but I'd rate the outcome a toss up.
As they are, the size difference would just be too big (pun intended). Marciano would struggle to land anything meaningful to Lewis's head. Lewis would hold and lean on him when he got in close.
Hey, size does matter as the Klitschkos have proven over and over.
As with any heavyweight let alone one as compact and with the screwdriver hook of a Marciano...Rocky would pretty much have a punchers chance but everything else is a literal uphill battle. With respect to the asterisk always attached to Lewis chin, Marciano would very much be in the same boat given Lewis jab and uppercut etc. 50 lbs is 50 lbs and when you walk in it multiples. Marciano looks to get in his chest literally and mentally but I can't help but see him sponging up bookoo damage while looking for the fight ender for his efforts.
Some well thought out replies on this one, appreciate your honesty and unbiased opinions, thanks for your time :)
True dat, size does matter in many cases, but to quote Mark Twain: "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." Marciano was a freak of nature, I wouldn't have counted him out of any fight, no matter how big or who the opponent was.Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjaspy3
I don't want to sound critical of a late great but I've scanned through his fight resume on boxrec and to be honest I'm a bit conflicted.
On one hand he had a hell of a heart (getting up from multiple knockdowns to win fights) and an animal ferocity that's to be commended. On the other hand, he suffers what Roy Jones did for most of his career (B hop and Tony aside) and to a little extend the K bros do now. That is the lack of high quality competition. It's not that I think he's a bum, he is not, or that he'll be destroyed in any other era, but that I can't really gauge his true potential given the quality of opposition.
I should clarify on his opposition, he fought ezzard charles, arhcie moore, Jersey Joe, and of course the brown bomber. but all were far over the hill.
Also, mostly light heavy weights!Quote:
Originally Posted by DavilaJones
I think Lewis and Tyson have Rocky out of there inside 2 rounds each. Rocky was famed from coming back from beatings but these were from much smaller men who did not hit as hard!
If Archie in his forties can have you on your ass you can bet almost every heavy champ since will!
Sorry but I think Lewis beats the snot out of Marciano. People dog Lewis for his knockout losses but he still had a good pair of whiskers. Tua, Holyfield, Vitali and Tyson found their marks and Lewis hung in there and took their best shots. Lewis jabs and grabs Rocky until he has nothing left and knocks out The Brockton Blockbuster cruiserweight inside 8.
If Oliver McCall and Hasim Raham could knock out Lewis then surely Marciano could. I knew boxing is not as simple as that but George Foreman gave us good guide as to how good previous heavyweights wereQuote:
Originally Posted by John Cameron
George Forman at the age of 45 comes back and beats Michael Moorer to win a World Champion and goes the distance (And puts up a good performance) with a peak Holyfield and Tommy Morrison when he was in his 40's.
Now if he could that when he was past his best. How good must he have been when he was in prime ?
So how good must have Ali been to beat a 25 year old Forman ?
And bear in mind Ali was 32 and slightly past his best when he beat Forman.
So how good must have been when he was 25 ?
It's a scary thought
I think all things being equal Marciano would have been Lewis and I’m not one of these guys who thinks everything was better in the old days
The fight would not be sanctioned today as it would be a cruiserweight versus heavyweight.
I suppose he could do what many of the cruiserweights have been doing... pack on extra muscle (and sometimes fat) and move up to heavyweight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
But he is still 5'11". I just don't see it working out for Marciano. Sure he had a good punch, but is it just as good when fighting someone so much taller and heavier who knows how to use size to his advantage?
I mean, we saw what happened to Tua and Tyson. I think Marciano would suffer a fate similar to one of those.
Marciano didn't rely on JUST his power the way Tyson and Tua did vs Lennox. Rocky would wear down an opponent with his aggression and stamina. So once again IF size was not an issue then its a difficult fight to call. But that's not the case, Lennox would tower over Rocky and outweigh him by about 50 pounds.
Rocky vs James Toney is a more fair fight to think about.