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I love cotto but cannot see any way whatsoever that barring boxings one punch's that he can even get remotely close to beating Floyd.
What the hell kind of strategy can he produce to do something like this? I can see Mayweather ripping uppercuts through that crab guard and stopping cotto mid rounds - Which I would definetly not want to see! How can cotto turn the tables with his set of attributes?!?
First of all, I would have to work on Cotto's endurance I would have him able to throw hundreds of punches per round. Go back to the body like he used to.Quote:
Originally Posted by oakleyno1
1. Workrate
2. Bodypunching
:-\ PBF right now does have an air of invincibility, I dunno really.
Good question.
What Pavlik says but Cotto needs to look at the tape of the 1st Castillo fight to see how a limited fighter can impose his will on Floyd. Also the Oscar fight cuz for 6 rounds it was working ofr the old man.
Cotto doesnt have the speed or southpaw stance of Judah or Corley who both stated well but faded. Its going to have to be grit and determination cuz he cant look pretty doing it and Cotto has always liked doing it at his own pace.
Castillo and De La Hoya used the jab against Mayweather. Castillo got robbed in their first bout, OScar was going somewhere till he did drop the jab and that his crap endurance got over. Cotto will be bigger and stronger physically, what I'd do is jab Mayweather to death (and Cotto has a very good jab, very good power and is quite fast), pressure him and hit the body with these vicious hooks, especially because his body is always a bit vulnerable in the shoulder roll stance.
I really believe Cotto has his chances in that one and if Manny could bolt his head to death (while he was trained by a nutritionist), I doubt that pillow fisted FLoyd could really hurt him and will have to (if he wins) get the already known UD ticket.
Utilize the jab, dig to the body, and know Floyd is going to try and counter the right cross with a roll and counter right hand of his own so if you can feint and counter with a left hook you could really do damage.
pretend to be hurt and when Floyd comes in for the kill go for the Haymaker. One chance KO thats all hes got.
He doesn't have the speed. So he could fight with combinations and back out and come back with combinations. Only throw punches when in range and stay out of his range throw a lot of feints to. Or he could try to box but be very careful and pick his shots carefully. I think he has a better chancing boxing then brawling.
Passive aggressive and limited dirty. A little blend of the Mosley, Margarito and Judah fights and it could be a long night for Money May. Floyd is 1 helluva of a poker player in there and can read his opponents like no other so Cotto better mix it well.
Cotto must go to the body from the outset, he cannot afford to let Floyd off the hook, he must throw all caution to the wind and attack the body, risk a point deduction if he has too. I don't mean fight dirty, but Floyd will work him out in about 2 minutes and Cotto will not land a glove on him anywhere else. Cotto has nothing to lose here IMO, but he is fighting a masterful ring tactician who could quite easily win this in a shut out unless Cotto fights with aggressive purpose. Go the body!
Well its a hope, I see where you are coming from, if he can hurt him,get him rethinking thats the only time he is going to be able to finish him.
Its a hope, to get Floyd out of rhythm, but you cant keep just that up even for one round.
If he tries that in close continually Floyd will block with his elbows re angle and catch him with hooks just as he leaves, he wont go far though, Floyd will be right there as Cotto turns to see where hes gone and thats where he'll get caught even harder.
I dont know really, Its terrible to say but i dont give Cotto much more than a punchers chance, unless he can hurt him, its sort of a done deal Floyd by points maybe a tko.
The only other way to gain control is disruption of Floyds movements.
(unfortunatly that is Floyds main strength against all others, so thats a tough call, turn the tide on the ocean.)
That would mean allowing Floyd to come forward and dictate and get comfortable and maybe with redistancing and angles, attack his arms before his body or head so he gets disrupted. I just cant see Floyds timing going haywire for any repeated run of mill boxing.
Make the counter puncher come to you. Pop that jab to his chest. And pray to god that confuses him enough for you to land that left hook.
Stay small,shorten jab. Revert to pre boxing Cotto. You aint boxing with Floyd, no way no how. Volume and the power of prayer, and don't get cut by that elbow that will be in your face all night. No more tomorrows.
All things considered Cotto could be the best fighter Floyd has ever faced. Floyd's greatest assets are his defense and the ability to take a good/great fighter and make them look ordinary, he's also super confident, never having tasted defeat.
A KO for either pug doesn't seem likely, so this should go to a decision. It's not going to be easy for Cotto to win a decision (understatement) against arguably the best/slickest boxer in the world.
In order for Cotto to win he needs to stay busier, set the pace and not let Floyd dictate the tempo. Like someone on this thread has already said, Cotto has a great jab, and left hook to the body, use them often. And lastly, Miguel will not "outbox" Floyd he needs to make a fight of it, put some hurt on him and take Floyd where he's never been before.
He's gotta work that body
Pop that jab & put punches behind it
Get PBF on the ropes and just throw upstairs & down stairs.
Use waist movement, bobbing & weaving to avoid counters.
Ortiz was able to do this if Cotto can do the same he's got chances of a better outcome.
I don't see him outboxing him.... workrate is the key but he has fallen short in the past on that so his only hope and biggest weapon is his power get inside and hold, spoil, hit, low blows, nut :D just rough him up.... ala Hatton Vs tszyu.
its his only chance IMHO... WOULD LOVE TO SEE IT HAPPEN ;D
One thing we might not be taking into account here is Floyd's inactivity and age. He fought once last year, and that fight went four rounds and ended in a lame blow.
The guy might just be fading a lot more than we think he is. We'll see what happens.
No strategy needed, Money May is the clear winner in any area
Jab- Money May longer reach, consistent one of the best
Dexterity - Money May
Speed - Money May
Money May- via stopage in mid-late rounds. Cotto will be lucky if he goes to 12 rounds.
all of this IMO only;D.
Oh, boy. Are you new to this 'boxing' thing?Quote:
Originally Posted by UKPH
It's easy to say "ohh work rate and body punching". It sounds great on paper, and guys have been saying it for YEARS, but it's a totally different ball game when the fighter is in the ring getting pot shotted with lighting fast lead rights and left hooks before he can plant his feet, or having his punches parried and countered with brutal straight rights and uppercuts and being froze by feints.
I doubt there is a concrete gameplan to beat Floyd, and if there is it's WAY too complex to be summed up in a couple of sentences.
PERSONALLY, if I'm Cotto I'm hoping that Floyd is not on his game or has gotten old overnight and I'm fighting dirty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slim the BoxingManiac
This fight might tell us something about that, the problem is Cotto himself has been in some wars and has been hit way too often in recent years. Floyd is the best defensive fighter i have ever seen, can Cotto actually hit him? Not only hit him, but enough times to slow him down? I doubt it.
The same way he fought Judah, low blows until his hands drop to protect down below, then thump that skull.
1- Start fast- Floyd often will give away the first round or two. Go out there and use the jab and also look to win first couple of rounds when Floyd starts slow.
2-Get to the body-Floyd is 35. If you get to the body, his legs will slow (and they aren't as fast as they used to be).
3-Workrate- you have to take any round that is close by outworking him. If the round is close then you need to try to get in a flurry in the final 10 seconds of the round. Any little extra bit to take a close round.
4-Dirty tactics- You have to hit Floyd on the hip (many refs miss it-BHOP does it in close and is a master at it-waits for ref to be on the wrong side). Hit Floyd low. Use anything you can to take something out of him.
5-Right hand- Cotto's right hand has improved a little over the years. He is going to need to use it more than he has in the past. You can't be predictable. If you come out with the jab, win a few rounds, use the left hook a little, and don't use the right hand, then Floyd will figure out how to neutralize the jab and the left hand enough to turn it around. So you have to suprise him with more straight right hands than you normally throw.
6-Pray
7-Pay the judges
If Floyd is the best defensive fighter you have ever seen, go and watch some Pernell Whitaker and Willie Pep. Floyd is amazing, but I think those two are clearly above Floyd.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MANQuote:
Originally Posted by Slim the BoxingManiac
This fight might tell us something about that, the problem is Cotto himself has been in some wars and has been hit way too often in recent years. Floyd is the best defensive fighter i have ever seen, can Cotto actually hit him? Not only hit him, but enough times to slow him down? I doubt it.
I still think Cotto should try any which way he can to make Floyd bring the fight to Cotto.
Floyd is more aggressive these days, and just a little stiffer,less fluid.
I think if Cotto can switch ranges mid-round, move then slug, move then slug, I think he'll frustrate Floyd into throwing more/ working harder than he should. I mean Floyd was throwing combos against Ortiz just to impose himself... I found that a lil odd.
Also Cotto has a nice arsenal of punches - most of them are incredibly sneaky - and he has excellent timing when he really wants to. He's pretty good with angles and has been known to switch stances... I think he needs to utilise ALL of these tools just in order to stay competitive (and hope that his power makes the difference).
If he can dictate the right pattern of engagement (patience & aggression, straight punches, changing angles & stances, positional pressure), I can see Floyd being hit with a few shots that he didn't see coming.
Although, with that being said, all you have to do is watch Mosley/ Cotto round 7 to see how easy it can be to get caught waiting. Cotto has got a mountain to climb :-\
Plan # 1.First box smart for the first couple of rounds, showing good sportsmanship hoping to earn Floyd's respect despite losing badly. Then by round 3 or 4 at the first full clinch, headbutt Floyd dramatically ala Ortiz. THEN, go in for a hug, but only one! After this, Cotto needs to make it seem as though he wants to touch gloves, only really looking for Floyd to respond with sportsmanship in order to land the 1-2 down the middle before he does. Cotto's best hope is to assume that Floyd wouldn't attempt to cold clock someone in the same fashion as he did Ortiz in consecutive fights, giving himself the chance to do so.
Plan #2. He has a great chance to win by DQ should he really commit to low blows. Depending on the ref there is a legitimate chance that Roger Mayweather storms the ring before Cotto is even docked points.
I just hope Emmanuel Steward has him rehearsing with Ortiz, Zab Judah and Andre Direll instead of sparring.
In seriousness, I don't give Cotto a chance in hell and I never liked this fight. Miguel is far more shopworn than people seem to acknowledge, he has no hope of boxing Floyd on the backfoot and he isn't durable enough to come forward and really work the body anymore. I'd love to be wrong but I don't think Cotto provides much more of a challenge than Ortiz at this point. Aside from being smarter than Victor I don't think Cotto really has any more upside right now. He hasn't looked near the fighter he was since losing to Margarito and has mostly gotten by on ring smarts, which won't hold up to Mayweathers.
The only thing I can think of Cotto troubling Mayweather is to make Floyd lead, and counter him. Just to make Floyd do the chasing for once. Granted ,Mayweather will adapt to this, but at least Cotto wouldn't just be walking on to shots all night.Quote:
Originally Posted by oakleyno1
Trouble is Floyd is a few levels above his opponents, Cotto is a very good fighter but I'm afraid Floyd is
a lot better it's a good fight but I can see only one winner Floyd.
I hope Cotto does not get beat up to bad,I like the guy but he is looking a bit shop worn good luck to
him I feel he needs it.
Cotto's stamina has improved drastically since moving up to 154, he should move side to side, get in range and use his timing and jab to keep Floyd off balance, take the earlier rounds and push Floyd to the ropes then fire off to his body, Cotto isn't probably gonna win but he has a better chance of doing so than what many people think
Steward isn't training him anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by p4pking
I am well familiar with Whitaker, Pep was before my time. I have never seen a boxer like Floyd who has the ability to make a fighter miss so often then counter so fast. He makes fools of his opponents at times. (Even more so than Whitaker) Mosley nailed him in round 2 and then PBF went about changing the game plan, Mosley never won another round. Cotto will find it very difficult to hit Floyd, speed is not his greatest asset.Quote:
Originally Posted by captainanddewIf Floyd is the best defensive fighter you have ever seen, go and watch some Pernell Whitaker and Willie Pep. Floyd is amazing, but I think those two are clearly above Floyd.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MANQuote:
Originally Posted by Slim the BoxingManiac
This fight might tell us something about that, the problem is Cotto himself has been in some wars and has been hit way too often in recent years. Floyd is the best defensive fighter i have ever seen, can Cotto actually hit him? Not only hit him, but enough times to slow him down? I doubt it.
I'm not saying he has not got a chance, of course he has Cotto will make a fight of it but Floyd is veryQuote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
slick a very clever counter puncher.You need speed to beat Floyd and I feel Cotto is a bit shop worn
my friend he has had one or two too many wars I feel. As I said I like Cotto he's a good guy Floyd on
the other hand comes across as a prick, but he's a prick that's a good fighter.
If it was a personality contest Cotto would win hands down, but it's not so I go with the prick Floyd.
Create openings like Shane Mosley did twice but somehow gassed out. Shane jabed to his body, Floyd lowered his defense, but right after the jab Shane was throwing a straight right that connected Floyd pretty good.
that's where i disagree, you don't need speed to beat Floyd/speed, you need good timing something Cotto does still have, De La Hoya made Floyd look more or less average when he timed Mayweather and backed him up with his jab, Cotto has a great jab and he has awesome timing, it's gonna be a lot more competitive than most thinkQuote:
Originally Posted by Dia bandoI'm not saying he has not got a chance, of course he has Cotto will make a fight of it but Floyd is veryQuote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
slick a very clever counter puncher.You need speed to beat Floyd and I feel Cotto is a bit shop worn
my friend he has had one or two too many wars I feel. As I said I like Cotto he's a good guy Floyd on
the other hand comes across as a prick, but he's a prick that's a good fighter.
If it was a personality contest Cotto would win hands down, but it's not so I go with the prick Floyd.