Just wondering what everyones list is.
Mine goes like this:
Ali
Holyfield
Sugar Ray Lennard
Roy Jones
Marciano
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Just wondering what everyones list is.
Mine goes like this:
Ali
Holyfield
Sugar Ray Lennard
Roy Jones
Marciano
A list without SRR will imediately be disregarded in most discussions.
The terms "boxer" and "fighter" are distinctly different, IMO. Whereas "fighter" encompasses the whole package, "boxer" to me specifically addresses the technical side of the fighter. Thus, I can't see where Marciano and Holyfield should be anywhere near that list.
Keeping in mind he started as SFW its hard not to think Floyd may just be the best of the bunch.
SRR was great , but does Floyds jumping through the weights outshine even Ray ?
That is a question id like people to answer.
At this moment in time you would have to say Floyd,is up there with the best of them he's a hell ofQuote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
a fighter. To me the best era was the 80's in boxing great fighters and great match ups, if you could turn
back time and put Floyd, in the mix it would have been very interesting we can't so we can only debait,
the mater.:)
There are certain things about SRR's resume Floyd will never be able to match. Not least among them, since you have brought up the issue of weight, is the fact that SRR went up to light heavyweight and completely outclassed and outworked a recognised champion for probably 12 of 13 rounds, before collapsing due to heat exhaustion. If SRR had had the foresight to coast the last few rounds (or even if the fight had been indoors imo) he would almost certainly have been a light heavyweight champion. In total, Ray fought at four different weights, in an era where there was more between the weight classes than there currently is. He started as a lightweight (5 pound difference to where Floyd started at super featherweight) and went up to a higher weight than Floyd is ever going to venture. For the record, Floyd would probably be somewhere around my top 5, but I don't think his going up in weight in any way outshines the achievements of SRR which, frankly, are unparalleled in the sport of boxing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
For the record Floyd was world champ at SFW and up to and including JM , SRR was champ at WW AND MW.Quote:
Originally Posted by SRRThere are certain things about SRR's resume Floyd will never be able to match. Not least among them, since you have brought up the issue of weight, is the fact that SRR went up to light heavyweight and completely outclassed and outworked a recognised champion for probably 12 of 13 rounds, before collapsing due to heat exhaustion. If SRR had had the foresight to coast the last few rounds (or even if the fight had been indoors imo) he would almost certainly have been a light heavyweight champion. In total, Ray fought at four different weights, in an era where there was more between the weight classes than there currently is. He started as a lightweight (5 pound difference to where Floyd started at super featherweight) and went up to a higher weight than Floyd is ever going to venture. For the record, Floyd would probably be somewhere around my top 5, but I don't think his going up in weight in any way outshines the achievements of SRR which, frankly, are unparalleled in the sport of boxing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
Of course different era,s SRR had an amazing ammount of fights , he also had probably 1 thing that Floyd hasnt , BIG POWER to go with speed.
no one would love to answer "yes" more than I would. But floyd never unified one division. He's been a fan of collecting the wbc strap mostly. Imo srr better resume, but pbf better boxer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
One of the main reason I put Holyfield on this list is his beautiful boxing. His head movement was some of the best of any heavy of all time. Not to mention he used the philly better than any heavy.
Anyway I was gonna but Ray Robinson on my list but he just didnt move quit like Lennard.
True, but as I said there is less between weights nowadays, there are more belts to win, and don't forget that for a long time SRR couldn't even get a title fight because nobody wanted to fight him. And I think being so close to winning a title at light heavy weight where he was massively out of his comfort zone and against a much bigger guy is more impressive than winning a title at your starting weight as a youngster. But Floyd is an incredible fighter, he is easily the best of his generation and certainly an all time great. As a defensive fighter he is much more technically accomplished than SRR ever was, but then, SRR had a very different style and it worked pretty well for him - his offense was his defense in many ways, since not many people could withstand him for too long. The ones who did were some of the toughest fighters I've ever seen. A more interesting question would be: How does a fight between them go, prime for prime? I'd like to hear people's opinions on that actually. Would Floyd's defensive guile and technical ability be enough to keep Ray at bay? Not sure. And if SRR had Floyd hurt I'm sure he'd finish him off - he'd finish anyone off. Interesting to try and visualise the various ways that one could pan out though. I think the only way Floyd wins is by decision, but he is very good at doing just that, and SRR did have trouble with good boxers from time to time, but those guys also bled a lot, and there was always the chance that even when being outboxed he would suddenly produce one great punch and either KO the guy or turn the fight on its head.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlFor the record Floyd was world champ at SFW and up to and including JM , SRR was champ at WW AND MW.Quote:
Originally Posted by SRRThere are certain things about SRR's resume Floyd will never be able to match. Not least among them, since you have brought up the issue of weight, is the fact that SRR went up to light heavyweight and completely outclassed and outworked a recognised champion for probably 12 of 13 rounds, before collapsing due to heat exhaustion. If SRR had had the foresight to coast the last few rounds (or even if the fight had been indoors imo) he would almost certainly have been a light heavyweight champion. In total, Ray fought at four different weights, in an era where there was more between the weight classes than there currently is. He started as a lightweight (5 pound difference to where Floyd started at super featherweight) and went up to a higher weight than Floyd is ever going to venture. For the record, Floyd would probably be somewhere around my top 5, but I don't think his going up in weight in any way outshines the achievements of SRR which, frankly, are unparalleled in the sport of boxing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
Of course different era,s SRR had an amazing ammount of fights , he also had probably 1 thing that Floyd hasnt , BIG POWER to go with speed.
Im am not saying Floyd is better than SRR , but it is between those 2 ,maybe the odd other name.
I'm honestly not trying to be antagonistic, I'm just curious to hear what people think about how they would match up in consideration of the great difference between their styles, both of which have been proven to be very effective. In my opinion it would be the best offensive fighter of all time vs one of the greatest defensive fighters of all time. I think that SRR was more instinctual in the ring than FMJ, who is a more accomplished ring general, and that's another factor that makes this something interesting to think about: would Floyd be able to out-think and outmaneuver SRR to get the points victory?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
Harry Greb
Niccolino Locche
Willie Pepp
Joe Gans
George Benton
Charlie Burley
Ezzatd Charles
Benny Leonard
Ray Leonard
Ray Robinson
Eder Jofre
Joe Louis seldom made the same mistake twice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlFor the record Floyd was world champ at SFW and up to and including JM , SRR was champ at WW AND MW.Quote:
Originally Posted by SRRThere are certain things about SRR's resume Floyd will never be able to match. Not least among them, since you have brought up the issue of weight, is the fact that SRR went up to light heavyweight and completely outclassed and outworked a recognised champion for probably 12 of 13 rounds, before collapsing due to heat exhaustion. If SRR had had the foresight to coast the last few rounds (or even if the fight had been indoors imo) he would almost certainly have been a light heavyweight champion. In total, Ray fought at four different weights, in an era where there was more between the weight classes than there currently is. He started as a lightweight (5 pound difference to where Floyd started at super featherweight) and went up to a higher weight than Floyd is ever going to venture. For the record, Floyd would probably be somewhere around my top 5, but I don't think his going up in weight in any way outshines the achievements of SRR which, frankly, are unparalleled in the sport of boxing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
Of course different era,s SRR had an amazing ammount of fights , he also had probably 1 thing that Floyd hasnt , BIG POWER to go with speed.
SRR had an iron chin too.
Duran
Hearns
Hagler
McCallum
JC Chavez
I wouldhave 2 lists, one of fighters I have watched and one that also takes intoconsiderations what I have read or been told. Some fighters (not in order) thatwould be on those lists.
Sugar Ray Robinson
Henry Armstrong
Willie Pepp
Muhammad Ali
Roberto Duran
Floyd Mayweather
Jimmy Wilde
Benny Leonard
Pernell Whitaker
Sandy Saddler
Sugar Ray Leonard
Roy Jones Jnr
Sammy Langford
Manny Pac
Ricardo Lopez
Charlie Burley
Marvin Hagler
Julio Cesar Chavez
Carlos Monzon
Harry Greb
Archie Moore
Gene Tunney
Larry Holmes
Aaron Pryor
Eder Jofre
Joe Louis
Ezzard Charles
Alexis Arguello
Billy Conn
Oscar DeLaHoya
Bernard Hopkins
PBF and Ali
Good lists by everyone, theres really so many. If everyone had to pick one, besides Ali, for greatest of all time who would it be?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cambay411
See now that's tough. No way could I answer that off the top of my head. The ten guys I listed are joined by a ton of others including many listed already.
Some punchers also get overlooked in these lists. I mean Hearns schooled Leonard until the 14th. Tommy could box. Haglers another. Olivares, Gomez, Liston, Arguello etc etc etc. Who I think is the best boxer all time in the technical sense and who I think the best boxer all time is in the overall sense will be two different people.
Im bit surprised nobady has Andrew " The Ratarded Clown" Hartley their lists, lets be honest Kid Thunder was a fighter.