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Just read it and you havent really put anything about how their styles will work against each other, just that Haye is better so he should win.
I totally dissagree. Haye has really done nothing at heavyweight to say if hes any good at the weight. The major proof being the pathetic falling down and non competative fight against Wlad. Haye has no defence and only throws one shot at a time, he hasnt fought anyone that would make him work at a pace as he has got crap stamina and would tire.
I sad this about Vitali v Chisora before the fight, that Gitali would tire after being made to work and he did and always would have, not because of his age but because he always has, when made to work.
In my eyes, Chisora is the more skilled. He can move his upper body to avoid being hit amd thows lots of shots that actually land and doesnt fall over. He also has a heavyweights chin.
If Haye fought Helenius of Vitali hed get knocked out and wouldnt be able to push them like Chisora did. I think even Fury would make a twat out of Haye. There is a reason Haye didnt take on any younger contenderrs at heavyweight. He wanted a safe route to a title shot. If Chisora was sen as a big puncher Haye wouldnt go anywhere near him. As it is I reckon he has made a mistake. Chisora will be in Hayes face and bustling him around when Haye will start to to slow down until he either gets stopped or more likely, to save face, retires with some injury between rounds late on. The power he has, will quickly fade as hes made to work and pressured.
Seriously Ross? You're still banging on about him falling over?! You must be the only person in the world to think that Wlad was actually pushing Haye over
:vd:
It was some lame little tactic to try to get wlad penalised for his tactic over grabbing shorter fighters and leaning his weight down on them.
Shit, but very much on purpose :rolleyes:
I don't think Hayes problem was a lack of defence, he slipped or rode Wlad's jab (some say it's decent) an awful lot, he was just far too negative to win any rounds but the 12th
Well thats your take on it, but i remember Haye out boxing a giant called valuev and rocking him. Haye certainlty has the tools to deal with heavyweights and if you are going off an embarrasing performance against Wladamir than fair enough. If that Haye shows up Chisora does have a chance I agree, but if the Haye that I have seen in the past who is a very good boxer with explosive power then we have a very good fight on are hands with Haye-Chisora.
Chisora has proven himself, I am a fan of what he has done. But lets not get too far ahead of ourselves, Chisora has lost his last three fights and he has shown that he is beatable especially in the Fury fight and Klit fight, fair enough he did well against Vitali but he still lost the fight.
Haye would give Vitali a good fight in my opinion, thats why I hope the winner of this gets a shot at vitali.
Ross is chosing to ignore the fact that Chisora could work well against Vitali because his style and the fact he is slowing make him easy to find - just not hurt.
What the fuck are you on about? I know Haye was falling over on purpose! I highlighted it because it was a feeble attempt at getting Points taken away from Wlad, rather than actually trying to earn those points by landing any punches. Also, so what he beat Valuev, Chagaev had already done it and better. Fair enough he hurt him but thats all he did. Hayes "explosive" power will mean nothing when hes blowing out his ass after the 4th because hes been pressured. He hasnt been in with any young heavyweights yet. The yougest he fought, beat him easily! In fact, who is Hayes best win to guage just how good he is? Probably Mormeck I suppose who Bell had already battered. Which Haye performance makes him stand out? Macaranelli? Who couldnt knock him out!
I personally do agree with you that Haye resume isnt the best, he could have fought better people along the way, this is why I am happy that Haye has come out of "retirement" for this fight with Chisora. I think both fighters will be on form on the night and wont want to ruin their reputation this is why we are going to have a good fight. I think your digging a bit too much into Haye to be honest, we can still see a lot more from him and thats why I think this is a really good match up. Lets just see how it goes and analyse from there. But personally I am backing Haye to win on points in a close fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
Good post. I forgot about Chagaev..he definitely did a better job on Valuev than Haye.Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
All of us watching thought Haye lost the Valuev fight. Far too negative.
I'm with you on this..I think Chisora pulls it out the bag
He was very negative, but he landed (a few) punches... Valuev landed basically none. Simple really.
The point is that Chisora's pedigree is hardly better. What's his best win? He bagged a round or two against an aging Vitali, however bad you think Haye is I don't think that alone proves he trumps him.Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
Just because Chisora has some losses doesnt make him a worse fighter at heavy than Haye. If we give Chisora the benefit of the doubt then he was totally unfocused for Fury as hed just been let down by Wlad after the fight being rescheduled as well. The Helenius fight was a total robbery and I think with a bit more experience he would have beaten Vitali! He only had 17 fights behind him. If Haye had fought those 3 fighters, there would be at least 2 KO losses;) Whereas Chisora beats all Hayes heavyweight opponents and I include Wlad in that. Vitali has a better output than Wlad.
haye v chisora will be a one sided beating and just come down to whether or not chisora can last 12 rounds
chisora has virtually no chance of winning
ross will haye have done "anything at heavyweight" if he beats chisora?Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
No!
Dont worry, it wont happen.;)
For Chisora to last a 12 round beat down, hed have to be fighting someone capable of fighting hard for 12 rounds. Haye hasnt and cant. Chisora pushed the biggest, strongest and most agressive fighter in the heavy division in his last fight, I think he can handle a former cruiser whith a broken toe.
get the heck out of here. Outboxing Valuev. He threw 13 punches a round.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tam Seddon
honestly dude, the only people who think chisora has any chance of beating haye are people who know little about boxing or are letting persoanlities get in the way of their judgementQuote:
Originally Posted by ross
btw, what does haye have to do to have done "anything" at heavyweight?
yeah and he landed a lot more of his punches in any single round than valuev did in the whole fight, whats your definition of outboxing?Quote:
Originally Posted by captainanddewget the heck out of here. Outboxing Valuev. He threw 13 punches a round.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tam Seddon
I've seen it all when eric is telling people they know nothing aboit boxing...Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44honestly dude, the only people who think chisora has any chance of beating haye are people who know little about boxing or are letting persoanlities get in the way of their judgementQuote:
Originally Posted by ross
btw, what does haye have to do to have done "anything" at heavyweight?
I will say one thing - Even thinking Vitali was getting older didn't help Chisora's chances with me. I didn't think he'd see the middle of the fight. Can't write him off.
I'd be shocked if he did what Wlad couldn't do and stopped Haye though. I guess it will come down to the tactics of both guys. I just think Haye might be a little too rangey/mobile for Chisoras grit and strength to be a factor.
Haye is a decent heavyweight with a suspect chin and a good right hand. He was never good enough to beat Wlad who has size, experience and skills to beat him. There was no shame in losing to Wlad who is simply the best but Hayes effort was awful and his lame excuse was frankly embarrassing. Chisora has a chance because he has a good chin and makes people work but he definitely lacks a punch so think Haye may nick a decision. Either way Haye will have redeemed himself from his last effort.
One thing you have to give credit to Chisora for is being able to take a punch. The guy is tank.
He took licks from Vitali for 12 rounds and then later that night took a full blown hook to the face, with no gloves, while holding a bottle, by Haye.
I can't see Haye knocking Chisora out.
But then for all Chisora's ruggedness, I don't think he has knockout potential in him either.
The truth it is a battle of two losers, I think most the fight will be Chisora coming forward and pressing, with Haye retreating and hitting on the run. Haye will probably win, landing the clearer punches. But many people will be equally as convinced that Chisora won simply through being more aggressive.
That's exactly what it is - a grudge match between two losers. It's fun because of the grudge and personally, I can see it going either way. I'm more convinced by Chisora at this point (focused, of course).Quote:
Originally Posted by 0james0
But the fight should mean nothing apart from a fun, grudge exhibition..nothing to get heated about. Just sit back and enjoy the fireworks. I really don't think a victory for either guy raises their stock for the future. Pure grudge.
ha for once i see you point, its a bit of a daft thing to say that someone knows nothing about boxing as its all opinions after allQuote:
Originally Posted by AlthugzI've seen it all when eric is telling people they know nothing aboit boxing...Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44honestly dude, the only people who think chisora has any chance of beating haye are people who know little about boxing or are letting persoanlities get in the way of their judgementQuote:
Originally Posted by ross
btw, what does haye have to do to have done "anything" at heavyweight?
its just a bit of a farout opinion
chisora has got to the top by default
The HW schene was lacking in numbers, his best wins were against a very ordinary Sam Sexton who isnt good enough to win the british title, on the back of that he gets a shot as the number one HW on the planet, and that doesnt come off
he loses to tyson fury then to helenius and then every round to vitali, ok he was robbed against helenius and his effort was decent against vitali
yes david haye is a penis but he is also very skillful powerful and fast fighter and is everybit world class, he has deserved the fights he has got on performance and has won the fights convincingly
its like when millwall got to the FA cup final a few years back, they did what they had to to get there, beat who was put infront of them but had the luck of the draw and once there it was a walk in the park for united
haye was the unified cruiserweight champ and legit HW champ, the only people who would call haye a loser are those who have let hayes personality influence their opinionQuote:
Originally Posted by AlthugzThat's exactly what it is - a grudge match between two losers. It's fun because of the grudge and personally, I can see it going either way. I'm more convinced by Chisora at this point (focused, of course).Quote:
Originally Posted by 0james0
But the fight should mean nothing apart from a fun, grudge exhibition..nothing to get heated about. Just sit back and enjoy the fireworks. I really don't think a victory for either guy raises their stock for the future. Pure grudge.
Agreed chisora has lost his way to the top
Thats football where someone else picks which teams you play against. This is pro boxing where Haye chose who he wanted to fight and "what could Haye have done to have done something at heavy?" He could have fought Chambers, Johnson, Areola or Adameck. Rather than journeymen retired never was's that he did.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44ha for once i see you point, its a bit of a daft thing to say that someone knows nothing about boxing as its all opinions after allQuote:
Originally Posted by AlthugzI've seen it all when eric is telling people they know nothing aboit boxing...Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44honestly dude, the only people who think chisora has any chance of beating haye are people who know little about boxing or are letting persoanlities get in the way of their judgementQuote:
Originally Posted by ross
btw, what does haye have to do to have done "anything" at heavyweight?
its just a bit of a farout opinion
chisora has got to the top by default
The HW schene was lacking in numbers, his best wins were against a very ordinary Sam Sexton who isnt good enough to win the british title, on the back of that he gets a shot as the number one HW on the planet, and that doesnt come off
he loses to tyson fury then to helenius and then every round to vitali, ok he was robbed against helenius and his effort was decent against vitali
yes david haye is a penis but he is also very skillful powerful and fast fighter and is everybit world class, he has deserved the fights he has got on performance and has won the fights convincingly
its like when millwall got to the FA cup final a few years back, they did what they had to to get there, beat who was put infront of them but had the luck of the draw and once there it was a walk in the park for united
crackin fighters themQuote:
Originally Posted by rossThats football where someone else picks which teams you play against. This is pro boxing where Haye chose who he wanted to fight and "what could Haye have done to have done something at heavy?" He could have fought Chambers, Johnson, Areola or Adameck. Rather than journeymen retired never was's that he did.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44ha for once i see you point, its a bit of a daft thing to say that someone knows nothing about boxing as its all opinions after allQuote:
Originally Posted by AlthugzI've seen it all when eric is telling people they know nothing aboit boxing...Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44honestly dude, the only people who think chisora has any chance of beating haye are people who know little about boxing or are letting persoanlities get in the way of their judgementQuote:
Originally Posted by ross
btw, what does haye have to do to have done "anything" at heavyweight?
its just a bit of a farout opinion
chisora has got to the top by default
The HW schene was lacking in numbers, his best wins were against a very ordinary Sam Sexton who isnt good enough to win the british title, on the back of that he gets a shot as the number one HW on the planet, and that doesnt come off
he loses to tyson fury then to helenius and then every round to vitali, ok he was robbed against helenius and his effort was decent against vitali
yes david haye is a penis but he is also very skillful powerful and fast fighter and is everybit world class, he has deserved the fights he has got on performance and has won the fights convincingly
its like when millwall got to the FA cup final a few years back, they did what they had to to get there, beat who was put infront of them but had the luck of the draw and once there it was a walk in the park for united
really are the cream of the heavies, haye would have definately arrived if he fought one of those ;D
p.s. didnt chisora put up a much better performance than both areola and adamek against vitali? yet he doesnt get any credit for fighting chiz?
Haye would have proved himself at heavy if he could get wins over Areola and Adameck like he did over Bonin and Harrison but he didnt, he didnt prove himself. All he did was prove all his doubters right when he did exactly what we all thought he would when in with Wlad, run, hide and fall over;DQuote:
Originally Posted by erics44crackin fighters themQuote:
Originally Posted by rossThats football where someone else picks which teams you play against. This is pro boxing where Haye chose who he wanted to fight and "what could Haye have done to have done something at heavy?" He could have fought Chambers, Johnson, Areola or Adameck. Rather than journeymen retired never was's that he did.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44ha for once i see you point, its a bit of a daft thing to say that someone knows nothing about boxing as its all opinions after allQuote:
Originally Posted by AlthugzI've seen it all when eric is telling people they know nothing aboit boxing...Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44honestly dude, the only people who think chisora has any chance of beating haye are people who know little about boxing or are letting persoanlities get in the way of their judgementQuote:
Originally Posted by ross
btw, what does haye have to do to have done "anything" at heavyweight?
its just a bit of a farout opinion
chisora has got to the top by default
The HW schene was lacking in numbers, his best wins were against a very ordinary Sam Sexton who isnt good enough to win the british title, on the back of that he gets a shot as the number one HW on the planet, and that doesnt come off
he loses to tyson fury then to helenius and then every round to vitali, ok he was robbed against helenius and his effort was decent against vitali
yes david haye is a penis but he is also very skillful powerful and fast fighter and is everybit world class, he has deserved the fights he has got on performance and has won the fights convincingly
its like when millwall got to the FA cup final a few years back, they did what they had to to get there, beat who was put infront of them but had the luck of the draw and once there it was a walk in the park for united
really are the cream of the heavies, haye would have definately arrived if he fought one of those ;D
p.s. didnt chisora put up a much better performance than both areola and adamek against vitali? yet he doesnt get any credit for fighting chiz?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rossHaye would have proved himself at heavy if he could get wins over Areola and Adameck like he did over Bonin and Harrison but he didnt, he didnt prove himself. All he did was prove all his doubters right when he did exactly what we all thought he would when in with Wlad, run, hide and fall over;DQuote:
Originally Posted by erics44crackin fighters themQuote:
Originally Posted by rossThats football where someone else picks which teams you play against. This is pro boxing where Haye chose who he wanted to fight and "what could Haye have done to have done something at heavy?" He could have fought Chambers, Johnson, Areola or Adameck. Rather than journeymen retired never was's that he did.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44ha for once i see you point, its a bit of a daft thing to say that someone knows nothing about boxing as its all opinions after allQuote:
Originally Posted by AlthugzI've seen it all when eric is telling people they know nothing aboit boxing...Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44honestly dude, the only people who think chisora has any chance of beating haye are people who know little about boxing or are letting persoanlities get in the way of their judgementQuote:
Originally Posted by ross
btw, what does haye have to do to have done "anything" at heavyweight?
its just a bit of a farout opinion
chisora has got to the top by default
The HW schene was lacking in numbers, his best wins were against a very ordinary Sam Sexton who isnt good enough to win the british title, on the back of that he gets a shot as the number one HW on the planet, and that doesnt come off
he loses to tyson fury then to helenius and then every round to vitali, ok he was robbed against helenius and his effort was decent against vitali
yes david haye is a penis but he is also very skillful powerful and fast fighter and is everybit world class, he has deserved the fights he has got on performance and has won the fights convincingly
its like when millwall got to the FA cup final a few years back, they did what they had to to get there, beat who was put infront of them but had the luck of the draw and once there it was a walk in the park for united
really are the cream of the heavies, haye would have definately arrived if he fought one of those ;D
p.s. didnt chisora put up a much better performance than both areola and adamek against vitali? yet he doesnt get any credit for fighting chiz?
hang on you avoided the question
according to you, haye still wont have done "anything" at HW if he beat chiz, he would have if he beats areola or adamek, yet chiz was 10 times better against vitali than areola and adamek was?
or, just so i understand, does he have to beat both areola and adamek?
He didnt prove himself at heavy to be any better than Ruslan Chagaev.
When Chisora beats him he is behind Tyson Fury;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
still not answered the question, thats cool tho, im happy to have shown you the way :)
and yep i agree, if chisora beats haye he will be behind fury
im a bit peckish still, i might have a backon barm
I jave answered your question, I just havent put the answer you want, or rather an answer you cant comprehend because you believe Haye to be better than what he is and cannot see him losing. Imagine you are a booky and you uave never heard pf either and the only thing you have of them to create odds on the fight is both their last fights. Chisora would be the betting favoirite hands down!
Haye will not beat Chisora and it wouldnt surprise me if the fight doesnt even happen and Haye pulls out, either to go straight to Vitali or faking an injury to get to Vitali.
yeah if "he has proved himself as chagaev" is an answer to "does he have to beat areola and adamek" then you have answered the questionQuote:
Originally Posted by ross
im just not so sure it is, in fact i would say the two are completely unrelated :confused:
bookies dont set odds blind, ill give you a tip as a fello saddo, dont put any money on chisora :)
Good job I know what im on about. You bet on Haye you lose and thats if the fight even happens. Haye is shitting himself because he knows the only weakness in Chisora is a lack of power but seeing as a supermiddle dropped him very hard, it wont take much to make those little legs buckle again;DQuote:
Originally Posted by erics44yeah if "he has proved himself as chagaev" is an answer to "does he have to beat areola and adamek" then you have answered the questionQuote:
Originally Posted by ross
im just not so sure it is, in fact i would say the two are completely unrelated :confused:
bookies dont set odds blind, ill give you a tip as a fello saddo, dont put any money on chisora :)
Well roll on David Haye - Derrick Chisora, its going to be a good fight either way the past is the past IMO, both men have a lot to lose from this I dont think the excuse card will be thrown out...May the best man win.
Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44honestly dude, the only people who think chisora has any chance of beating haye are people who know little about boxing or are letting persoanlities get in the way of their judgementQuote:
Originally Posted by ross
btw, what does haye have to do to have done "anything" at heavyweight?
The real issue here, Eric, is that the only time Haye has faced a heavyweight of any considerable merit... he put on a pathetic, pitiful performance... one that should've resulted in his getting his purse withheld.
Don't let the desire to finally have a British HW worth the price of admission (since Lennox Lewis) cloud your judgement. Valuev, his gigantic size aside, wasn't much more than a circus act.... a very forgettable HW when all is said and done. And John Ruiz is very likely one of the worst HW champions in history, with the distinction of getting his ass handed to him by not one, but TWO lightheavies. So a good HW resume Haye definitely does NOT have.
And when he finally gets the shot he was so loudly shouting for? He embarrasses himself in a cowardly show. Yes... he has a lot of redeeming to do. Chisora? Tough guy, maybe. But hardly worth mentioning. He's lost 3 out of his last 4 fights. And with less than 20 fights to his credit, I'd hardly call him a household name.
Someone already called it right. A potentially good scrap between two losers.
It's a little misleading the way in which you present the situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by erics44honestly dude, the only people who think chisora has any chance of beating haye are people who know little about boxing or are letting persoanlities get in the way of their judgementQuote:
Originally Posted by ross
btw, what does haye have to do to have done "anything" at heavyweight?
The real issue here, Eric, is that the only time Haye has faced a heavyweight of any considerable merit... he put on a pathetic, pitiful performance... one that should've resulted in his getting his purse withheld.
Don't let the desire to finally have a British HW worth the price of admission (since Lennox Lewis) cloud your judgement. Valuev, his gigantic size aside, wasn't much more than a circus act.... a very forgettable HW when all is said and done. And John Ruiz is very likely one of the worst HW champions in history, with the distinction of getting his ass handed to him by not one, but TWO lightheavies. So a good HW resume Haye definitely does NOT have.
And when he finally gets the shot he was so loudly shouting for? He embarrasses himself in a cowardly show. Yes... he has a lot of redeeming to do. Chisora? Tough guy, maybe. But hardly worth mentioning. He's lost 3 out of his last 4 fights. And with less than 20 fights to his credit, I'd hardly call him a household name.
Someone already called it right. A potentially good scrap between two losers.
Firstly I think you have exaggerated how bad Haye's performance was. Sure, it wasn't great, but having his purse witheld? Come on now.
Secondly, Haye may not have a good resume at HW but that alone doesn't mean that he's no good. It simply means he is not thouroughly tested. It is possible he could beat a good number of the other heavy weights not named Klitschko, but it is unknown.
Thirdly, Chisora may have lost 3 of his last 4 fights, but the recent loss was to Vitali. No shame there. The loss before that shouldn't have been a loss. The first loss to Fury.. that one we can definitely count against him as it seems he didn't come to the fight in proper shape. So really only 1 of his 3 losses is a bad one.
A fight between two losers? Hardly. If that's the case, then most of the other fights at HW not involving the Klitschko brothers are going to be between the so-called "losers."