'Sugar' Shane Mosley hypotheticals vs the greats
Since Shane has officially retired I would like to make a thread where we discuss how he may have fared vs some of boxings best talents from 135 to 154.
154
Wilfred Benitez
Mike McCallum
Terry Norris
147
'Sugar' Ray Robinson
'Sugar' Ray Leonard
Tommy Hearns
Felix Trinidad
Kid Gavilan
Fritzie Zivic
Pipino Cuevas
Curtis Cokes
Carmen Basilio
140
Aaron Pryor
Julio Cesar Chavez
Nicoliano Locche
Kostya Tszyu
Antonio Cerevantes
Ricky Hatton
Arturo Gatti
135
Roberto Duran
Pernell Whittaker
Carlos Ortiz
Henry Armstrong
And so on and so forth.....how would he do? Would there be any fighters that would give him trouble? I can think of 5 right off the top of my head: Hearns, Duran, Whittaker, Leonard, and Robinson, that would more than likely beat Shane. What do you guys think?
Re: 'Sugar' Shane Mosley hypotheticals vs the greats
Aint got time to look at all this at the moment, but imo he peaked at 135 and should be mentioned in the same breath as Duran, Benny Leonard, Joe Gans etc.
Re: 'Sugar' Shane Mosley hypotheticals vs the greats
That's a hell of a list, I think he would've lost to Whittaker at any weight, but had every chance of beating Duran at 135. I would pick him over every single 140 pounder you list I think, he would've steamrolled Hatton and Gatti, those are elementary to me. At welter I'd basically take the top 3 names to beat him, but noone else offhand. 154 was not his weight, he'd already lost so much by the time he moved up there. He'd have basically a punchers chance against NOrris in what would be a hell of a fight, but I couldn't see him possibly beating McCallum or Benitez on their best night there. The top 3 fights I'd want to see would be against Duran Pryor and Hearns, those would all be incredible.
Re: 'Sugar' Shane Mosley hypotheticals vs the greats
I think Duran-Mosley is a hell of a fight....one like Duran-Leonard 1 but where Duran meets a touch more resistence. I think Duran could nick it more often than not.
I think the most difficult fights for Shane would be: Leonard, Robinson, Hearns, and Sweet Pea.
Now that I think about it Mosley vs Zab Judah wouldn't have been bad at 140. I think that would have been a very fun fight to watch for as long as it lasted.
What about Mosley vs Juan Manuel Marquez at 135?
Re: 'Sugar' Shane Mosley hypotheticals vs the greats
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Since Shane has officially retired I would like to make a thread where we discuss how he may have fared vs some of boxings best talents from 135 to 154.
154
Wilfred Benitez (Shane loses by close decision. "Radar of St Just" too elusive for him).
Mike McCallum (tossup)
Terry Norris (Shane by SD. 154 out of Shane's comfort zone).
147
'Sugar' Ray Robinson (no opinion)
'Sugar' Ray Leonard (Beautiful fight, but nod goes to SRR... ATG boxer).
Tommy Hearns (Vernon put Shane on queer street. Tommy finishes him. Tommy was hell on shorter fighters).
Felix Trinidad (Close, but lean toward Trinidad by TKO late. Shane could win by decision).
Kid Gavilan (no opinion)
Fritzie Zivic (no opinion)
Pipino Cuevas (Shane by wide UD... maybe by TKO).
Curtis Cokes (no opinion)
Carmen Basilio (Shane by comfortable decision).
140
Aaron Pryor (Huge fight. I like Shane's technique and speed over Pryor's workrate. Shane by UD).
Julio Cesar Chavez (Shane by decision... then gets robbed).
Nicoliano Locche (no opinion)
Kostya Tszyu (I like Kostya... but Shane by comfortable decision).
Antonio Cerevantes (no opinion)
Ricky Hatton (If Ricky not in PBF or Pac's league, not in Shane's either. Shane by UD or late TKO.... unless in UK with Parris as ref).
Arturo Gatti (Shane by late TKO).
135
Roberto Duran (Oh wow... cannot pick against "Mano de Piedra". Duran by UD).
Pernell Whittaker (Natural size becoming an issue. Shane by close decision).
Carlos Ortiz (Ditto)
Henry Armstrong (no opinion)
And so on and so forth.....how would he do? Would there be any fighters that would give him trouble? I can think of 5 right off the top of my head: Hearns, Duran, Whittaker, Leonard, and Robinson, that would more than likely beat Shane. What do you guys think?
Good list.
Re: 'Sugar' Shane Mosley hypotheticals vs the greats
Why do you lot still rate him so highly after he himself admitting being nothing but a filthy dirty drugs cheat?
Mayorga that beat Forrest beats the shit out of Mosely.
Re: 'Sugar' Shane Mosley hypotheticals vs the greats
Mike McCallum would beat Shane at 154, as would Norris and Benetiz.
Re: 'Sugar' Shane Mosley hypotheticals vs the greats
Man, lots of names. I like Shane but I cannot see Mosley beating the best of the best straight throwing boxers on that list. His 135 run was not exactly stacked with huge name at all. He was out boxed by Cotto, Forrest, Wright but got Oscar flip a coin on one of them. I think at respected times those Lts listed were way to deep for him. His squaring up really caught up to him. He was not this one punch killer but hooky-body speed and shined vs guys that stayed in and played ball with him. I believe is power gets over stated a bit. He ain't touching McCallum at 154.
Re: 'Sugar' Shane Mosley hypotheticals vs the greats
Mosley has trouble with a lot of those guys on that list. He'd easily beat gatti and hatton because they are there to be hit and don't really pose much of a threat to him. I think pryor, while certainly a threat, is too much right there to get hit and Shane could probably beat him. In fact, it wouldn't suprise me to see him get a 3kd tko without ever really hurting Pryor.
My knowledge of Locche is limited, but what I've seen leads me to believe that Mosley would beat him. Locche is veryhard to hit, but he can't keep Mosley off of him, and I don't think that you'll beat Mosley if he isn't a bit afraid of you. That is why I think he'd probably beat Whitaker. Shane is just as fast, and at 135 was real confident and slick. I call him and Benitez at 147 a toss-up. A fight with Cuevas could turn out like the Margarito fight, but if Cuevas gets home early, he'd stop Mosley.
Those other guys are a class above mosley, and when you start talking about guys like Robinson, leonard, Zivic, Gavilan and Basilio, they'd just run Shane out of the ring.
mosley steamrolled guys at 135 because he had a major advantage in physicality and he wasn't afraid to let himself fight and do all that he was capable of doing. At 147 and above, this was not the case and he fought scared. This began in the Rivera fight, and it became really evident in the first DeLaHoya fight. Oscar had the same problem and that is why that fight looked like two old ladies fighting over a clothesline.
Re: 'Sugar' Shane Mosley hypotheticals vs the greats
I think anyone who fights non square and tight out from a behind a good jab can mess with him greatly over distance and anyone who opens up square and tries to mix it up for no great reason gets hit hard at the wrong time; cause Shane timed others so he was moving as he's landing. As soon as his feet and movement wern't quiet following his thoughts , his power followed suit.
Re: 'Sugar' Shane Mosley hypotheticals vs the greats
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Andre
I think anyone who fights non square and tight out from a behind a good jab can mess with him greatly over distance and anyone who opens up square and tries to mix it up for no great reason gets hit hard at the wrong time; cause Shane timed others so he was moving as he's landing. As soon as his feet and movement wern't quiet following his thoughts , his power followed suit.
That is real true. At 135 I thought shane was great because he would not only bob and weave, but hit you as he weaved under. His first fight at 147 was Rivera and I've always thought that, at some point, Rivera hurt him, or he somehow felt the strength of a welterweight, because he fought differently from there forward, his whole career. There was a hesitancy that hadn't been there before.
Re: 'Sugar' Shane Mosley hypotheticals vs the greats
Mosley's only great performance at 147lb was the first DLH fight, it was his crowning glory. He was a great Lightweight champion one of the best 5 of all time IMO, he's competitive with everyone from 140-147lb, but i think he loses more than he wins on that list.
The dream fights being V Duran at 135 and Pryor at 140lb.
Re: 'Sugar' Shane Mosley hypotheticals vs the greats
Re: 'Sugar' Shane Mosley hypotheticals vs the greats
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
I don't ignore it. I think it proves that, in boxing, steroids doesn't make you better. If anybody had a boxing pedigree, it was shane mosley. he was totally immersed in the sport from the time he could stand in the corner of a gym and watch his dad train fighters. I saw him there when he was 5 or 6 years old.
He was a student of the sport, physically and mentally. He took steroids and it didn't turn him into the boxing version of a 75 home run a year guy. It made him a pretty good fighter that never got over his fear of getting hit by a guy that could hurt him.
Re: 'Sugar' Shane Mosley hypotheticals vs the greats
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
Its not like none of us knows or are ignoring the fact Ross, its just we are talking about his ring skills and who could of handled them.
Maybe, Margarito on coke? ;D
Re: 'Sugar' Shane Mosley hypotheticals vs the greats
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Andre
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
Its not like none of us knows or are ignoring the fact Ross, its just we are talking about his ring skills and who could of handled them.
Maybe, Margarito on coke? ;D
How do we know he hasnt cheated in every fight that there wasnt random testing? We know he has cheated, we dont know how much. Same as Margarito, we know he tried to cheat, we dont know if he ever actually did but must presume he did. Evander Holyfield has admitted buying steroids and we are supposed to believe it was for his dad? He admitted buying em, we have to assume he used them. Especially seeing as he trained with Lee Hainey to get to heavy in the first place!
Shanes big fights where testing was an issue, he looked pathetic. He never had great skills, just fast hands. How anyone can hold him in high regard after he admitted being a filthy cheating junkie is beyond me!
What im getting at is the fights where testing has been an issue we have to assume he is clean and these are the fights we must base his career on, ones where hes not cheating. So all in all, hes shit.....
.
Re: 'Sugar' Shane Mosley hypotheticals vs the greats
Quote:
Originally Posted by
greynotsoold
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
I don't ignore it. I think it proves that, in boxing, steroids doesn't make you better. If anybody had a boxing pedigree, it was shane mosley. he was totally immersed in the sport from the time he could stand in the corner of a gym and watch his dad train fighters. I saw him there when he was 5 or 6 years old.
He was a student of the sport, physically and mentally. He took steroids and it didn't turn him into the boxing version of a 75 home run a year guy. It made him a pretty good fighter that never got over his fear of getting hit by a guy that could hurt him.
Hit the nail on the head. Steroids didn't make Shane a great boxer. He was already that, in his own right. Any boxing fan and student of the sport should be able to see that. To be blinded by Mosley's admission and dismiss his entire career is a little shortsighted, in my opinion.
