Kelly Pavlik's return

Hey guys, how have you all been keeping?

Apologies for not getting on here much lately, but on a big fight weekend it's always nice to soak up some of the forum happenings.

I watched Kelly Pavlik's comeback fight, and I thought he was a little underwhelming to be honest. I don't think he's made the necessary adjustments to his style if he is going to get past better fighters, and I was impressed by Sigmon's toughness.

I wrote about the fight on my blog, have a read and let me know what you think - I just find it hard to see how Kelly can win a title when he comes up against some really tough 168 pounders.

Can Kelly Pavlik embrace change? | The View from the Outer

Also, here's another boxing post I wrote after watching the shocking ESPN 30 for 30 film Muhammad and Larry, which is a very depressing flick...

Muhammad and Larry – A Cautionary Tale | The View from the Outer

How did Pavlik look?

A few have mentioned his name as a future Froch opponent.

For the record I think Froch would destroy him unless he has totaly turned himself around.

I thought Pavlik looked good last night. He had the height and reach advantage and it really showed against Sigmon who could not budge Pavlik with his best shots. Pavlik is using the Mayweather chin in shoulder alot more on the inside now, along with decent body punching. Bring on a Bika or Johnson fight which would be entertaining and a real test for him at 168.

Personally I didn't see a whole lot different.

Teddy Atlas said a great thing during the telecast when he said that Pavlik is either defending or attacking, he still hasn't married up how to do both - you can see him think 'I'm going to defend now', and he takes a few seconds off with some head movement. But Teddy's point was that he should be doing that all the time.

This video from after the Hopkins fight is where I took the quotes from for the piece.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0G__PG4z8I

Hopkins was lambasted for it at the time I think, but I really think he's talking sense - Pavlik does need to get that slickness, and I don't think he's going to get it from Robert Garcia.

I suppose professional boxing is a tough arena to try out new stuff, but Sigmon was the perfect opponent to do it against. But jeez, do it in the gym.

Fightersl lack of flexibility is one of my bugbears. It's a problem with Michael Katsidis as well, another of my faves. But these guys need, in order to lenghten their careers, more string to their bow IMO...

Even if all the greatest trainers in history got together as a team and tried to give Pavlik slickness, he wouldn't have it. He is a plodding guy.

couple of points:
1-Pavlik's feet are slow at 160. Above 160 they look like they are absolutely stuck in quicksand
2-Ward, Froch, Kessler and headaches box his ears off
3-He would make for a good fight with Bika, Johnson, Stieglitz, Abraham, Oousthizen, Degale, Groves, Stevenson, and Rodriguez.
4-Bute? eh, depends on whether Bute is going to be fractured mentally by what Froch did to him.

I think his team needs to keep putting him out there and look to avoid the top 4 guys.

Kelly Pavlik beat up on a "little version" of Kelly Pavlik.
There's still a long road back.... but it's a start.

I watched Pavlik on a download this mornin and really thought he was just plodding, if a little better. \not that he was quick before, but he definitely looks to have lost a step on pace. After a couple more fights maybe he gets sharper. I'd like to see him do it, as there are a few decent fights for him to be had.

Him shoutng Froch out though, dear me. Froch would back him up and batter him I think. 160 was his destiny, as Bernard Hopkins told him.

Hey hows it going mate.
I saw it the same way he controlled that guy no problems and the collective damage showed but he didnt show any real finishing power. Can he be an all out trainee or a slacker who does just enough to get by is what it left me thinking :-\.
Maybe he just wanted rounds? Probably a good thing at this stage.

The real question is he ready for Carl Froch?

Hey Andre!

I'm going well mate, can't complain - working too many hours, but all good. How about yourself, how're the family getting on?

I'm leaning to your assessment as well, I just don't think he's made the adjustments, but I suppose getting a few rounds when you've been struggling is important as you say.

It must be tough for these blokes to make radical adjustments to their style, especially if what they've been doing has worked for them previously.

But I think Froch has far too many skills for Pavlik at this stage, and as Bernard said - he needs really develop some other attributes if he is to get his career back on track.

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Originally Posted by Greig

Hey guys, how have you all been keeping?

Apologies for not getting on here much lately, but on a big fight weekend it's always nice to soak up some of the forum happenings.

I watched Kelly Pavlik's comeback fight, and I thought he was a little underwhelming to be honest. I don't think he's made the necessary adjustments to his style if he is going to get past better fighters, and I was impressed by Sigmon's toughness.

I wrote about the fight on my blog, have a read and let me know what you think - I just find it hard to see how Kelly can win a title when he comes up against some really tough 168 pounders.

Can Kelly Pavlik embrace change? | The View from the Outer

Also, here's another boxing post I wrote after watching the shocking ESPN 30 for 30 film Muhammad and Larry, which is a very depressing flick...

Muhammad and Larry – A Cautionary Tale | The View from the Outer

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Who are you :confused:



























































































































;D

I disagree actually @Greig

Pavlik looked strong and fresh. He was using a wider variety of punches than he had prior to working with Robert Garcia. His defense has improved. All in all, he looked pretty good, considering his recent personal problems and in his second fight with a new trainer.

Pavlik has to be matched well. He was a big, tall middleweight. He's not as big or tall at super middleweight. If he had trouble with guys who could move at middleweight, Sergio Martinez etc., he'll have even more trouble with guys like that at super middlweight. Of the top guys at 168, a fight with Carl Froch would be his best chance at victory. However, considering what Froch did to Bute, I wouldn't rate Pavlik's chances as very good. He loses to Andre Ward. Is Kessler a light heavyweight now? If not, that's a decent fight, but Kessler should win.

Very nice Big H, deserved that.

Rantcantrat. I didn't see too much variety in the arsenal to be honest with you - but I suppose defensively he did have a couple of nice sequences where he was moving his head a bit.

I haven't been following the sport as closely as I have in recent years, but if I were Pavlik I'd be seeking somebody out like a Dan Birmingham, someone who could really get him moving.

captainanddew - I know you say he's a plodder, but I don't think it's genetic or anything. If you watch the way he used to train with Loew he was lifting truck tyres and pounding stuff with a sledgehammer. I'm sure a few months of some rapid fire feet excercises would make a difference. It might now turn him into Pernell Whittaker, but it would definitely make him more effective IMO.

theres talk about brian magee v pavlic coming off any more word on it???

I don't like Pavlik, never have. I hope Abraham beats his ass!

I thought he looked better. Fresher and tighter cleaner punching than his previous go. He does get touched alot though, almost comfortable with it in order to get his in, though Rosinsky couldn't break wind. His left to body was working well. His skin looks to be scuffing up more, cut. I've never been a fan but I'm glad he has his head glued on and seemingly clear. He sounds like he'll never be satisfied unless he recaptures former glory. Almost too eager to jump right in from the shallow to the deep end. Has to be expected I spose but he really only has one more shot and better allow the rebuild, of body and mind. Garcia and company can only add on to what'a already there really. Pavlik is a finished product and will eventually revert and get into a shoot out. I don't see him hanging with a Froch.

I thought he looked terrible. He hasn't got the pop at 168 that he had at 160, he's slower around the ring than he used to be if that's possible and I've seen statues with better head movement. He'll get a payday or two as an opponent for guys like Froch/Ward/Kessler etc. at 168 because he's a recognised name in boxing but that's as far as he'll go. He's just going to get battered by any elite 168 guy.

Kelly will never be as good as he was, in fact he is nowhere near as good as he was,
his head is fucked and he is still dealing with his problems, he will get destroyed against
Froch, Kessler ,Ward. He should really knuckle down or retire.

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

I thought he looked terrible. He hasn't got the pop at 168 that he had at 160, he's slower around the ring than he used to be if that's possible and I've seen statues with better head movement. He'll get a payday or two as an opponent for guys like Froch/Ward/Kessler etc. at 168 because he's a recognised name in boxing but that's as far as he'll go. He's just going to get battered by any elite 168 guy.

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He never had head movement, nor did he move well. It's not as if he was suddenly going to become fleet of foot or acquire head movement because he moved up in weight. If you expected those things, you were leading yourself up to disappointment. His qualities have always been his punching power and his aggression. I have yet to see his punching power translate at 168. It's not like he has no power at all, but not that thudding power he had at middleweight. He still has effective aggression. He has developed a left hook to compliment an arsenal that otherwise only included a jab and a straight right hand. I still say a fight with Froch would be fun. However, Froch's awkward angles would win him the fight. He might wear Bute's down, as much as I'm a fan of Bute. Kessler would be interesting. He needs to stay away from movers and boxers.

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Originally Posted by roberto duran legend

Kelly will never be as good as he was, in fact he is nowhere near as good as he was,
his head is fucked and he is still dealing with his problems, he will get destroyed against
Froch, Kessler ,Ward. He should really knuckle down or retire.

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NO!....not before I see him get his ass thoroughly stomped!

Come on guys Pavlik looked alright. Not bad at all.

Rosinsky was a very live opponent minus the punching power and Pavlik handled him fairly well.

I like Pavlik's chances against Abraham, Bute and Kessler. We are all very big on Froch right now but he does love to mix it up and Pavlik could land a big one on him who knows.

Always liked pavlik and was hoping he'd go back down to 160 , but I guess that isn't happening. He looked ok to me took punches, but he always has...he's only been dominated by bhop, and gave sergio a close fight up till cuts, no shame in either of those. Id like to see him stay active and have one or two more lesser fights before jumping in with the top, but he's talking ward and froch. ward probably eats him up due to styles I think, and well froch it would be a war while it lasted with froch most likely coming out on top. he could still get a title but don't think hell ever be the man again like was at middle

Pavlik hasn't been the same boxer since Hopkins beat the wampus out of him. I blame that on his handler, who was predicting a KO of Hopkins. Taking that fight was a capital error. I can't think of Pavlik or Hopkins without thinking of that fight. God, what a mistake!
Wampus: starch, fire, heart, heat or desire.

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Originally Posted by beenKOed

Pavlik hasn't been the same boxer since Hopkins beat the wampus out of him. I blame that on his handler, who was predicting a KO of Hopkins. Taking that fight was a capital error. I can't think of Pavlik or Hopkins without thinking of that fight. God, what a mistake!
Wampus: starch, fire, heart, heat or desire.

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Hell I think had Jermain Taylor been in top form vs Kelly in the first fight he would have outboxed him and I think Taylor won the rematch even.

Kelly Pavlik is one dimensional, he's slow, and he tries to bully his opponents. I hope he runs into a bigger, younger, hungrier fighter and gets dropped on his ass.

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

I thought he looked terrible. He hasn't got the pop at 168 that he had at 160, he's slower around the ring than he used to be if that's possible and I've seen statues with better head movement. He'll get a payday or two as an opponent for guys like Froch/Ward/Kessler etc. at 168 because he's a recognised name in boxing but that's as far as he'll go. He's just going to get battered by any elite 168 guy.

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He never had head movement, nor did he move well. It's not as if he was suddenly going to become fleet of foot or acquire head movement because he moved up in weight. If you expected those things, you were leading yourself up to disappointment. His qualities have always been his punching power and his aggression. I have yet to see his punching power translate at 168. It's not like he has no power at all, but not that thudding power he had at middleweight. He still has effective aggression. He has developed a left hook to compliment an arsenal that otherwise only included a jab and a straight right hand. I still say a fight with Froch would be fun. However, Froch's awkward angles would win him the fight. He might wear Bute's down, as much as I'm a fan of Bute. Kessler would be interesting. He needs to stay away from movers and boxers.

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I'm not saying I expected him to get better, I'm saying he's worse. Add the higher weight class and he's nowhere near winning a belt at 168.

I hope Pavlik does well in his career and am glad to see him back. On wards and upwards and here is hoping he takes on Froch. That would be a war.

I have a lot of respect for ElKabong and his opinions, honestly, but if he thinks Taylor was less than ready for the first Taylor vs Pavlik fight, he wasn't fully awake. I remember Pavlik getting up off the floor and winning by KO. As for their second fight, arguing about a decision is like arguing with a two year old, you can't win. Pavlik was exciting to watch at first, maybe all those
tattoos have slowed him down some!

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Originally Posted by beenKOed

I have a lot of respect for ElKabong and his opinions, honestly, but if he thinks Taylor was less than ready for the first Taylor vs Pavlik fight, he wasn't fully awake. I remember Pavlik getting up off the floor and winning by KO. As for their second fight, arguing about a decision is like arguing with a two year old, you can't win. Pavlik was exciting to watch at first, maybe all those
tattoos have slowed him down some!

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You do !?!? :o;D

I kid I kid

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Originally Posted by Hulk

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Originally Posted by beenKOed

I have a lot of respect for ElKabong and his opinions, honestly, but if he thinks Taylor was less than ready for the first Taylor vs Pavlik fight, he wasn't fully awake. I remember Pavlik getting up off the floor and winning by KO. As for their second fight, arguing about a decision is like arguing with a two year old, you can't win. Pavlik was exciting to watch at first, maybe all those
tattoos have slowed him down some!

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You do !?!? :o;D

I kid I kid

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;D The first Pavlik Taylor fight was great fun, and I agree Jermain was clearly prepared going in. That second round was the closest Taylor has ever come to stopping a live opponent, but in hindsight it's no surprise at all that he punched himself out in the process. Still, a lot of refs would have waved that one off, and noone could've complained about it. I actually may have scored the rematch for Taylor as well honestly, but he knew that he couldn't afford to take the same chances and only fought in short spurts. He was so much better to watch than Pavlik when he threw punches, it's a shame he didn't have a better engine.

If I remember right Pavlik won the second fight, Taylor was coming strong but Pavlik landed a hard body shot and the fight went from Taylor and he went in survival mode aiming to make it to the decision.

I just remember Jermain Taylor allowing himself to get out of shape between bouts, he liked to party a bit or so rumor had it. He had been in 2 very scrappy matches vs Hopkins and I just think had Taylor not gotten sidetracked he would have lasted longer as champion and as a fighter.

Taylor looked much better vs Pavlik in the rematch I think we can all agree on that.

I want Pavlik-Abraham because it is a grudge match, they do not like each other and I think AA will hurt Kelly bad.

I thought Kelly won the second Taylor fight by a few rounds.
The fight i would like Kelly to get is against Abraham, if Pavlik
can get back to something resembling his old form he would
kick his ass.

Did not know about the bad blood between AA and Pavlik. I would support Pavlik, hate AA style.