Wow Manny looked like crap last night!

So ya I watched the fight live and I was surprised a bit by the scores but I also knew that I had stopped scoring the fight around the 4th round and the drinks had already caught up so I was in mob mentality and of course the crowd will cheer for Manny farting.

So rewatching it this morning on mute here is what I saw:

-Manny took the first two minutes of almost every round off, Bradley fought every minute of every round.
-Bradley landed alot of hooks to the body as Pac came in
-Pacman smiled and nodded to Bradley alot conceding that he got hit with something (The crowd and HBO never acknowledged)
-When Pac went on offense he swung wildly but he missed alot of those punches
-Bradley used the jab pretty effectively to keep Pac off him
-Pacquaio hit Bradley flush several times and he never really hurt Bradley
-Manny looked alot slower than what was being hyped by the HBO commentators during the fight.
-Bradley had great footwork and head movement, he used alot of angles to get himself out of danger.

If Bradley had any kind of punching power the fight would have looked different because Manny would have been getting knocked back by all the counters that Bradley landed and his body would have showed more welts from the body punching but regardless of punching power BRADLEY WON THE FIGHT.

Both put their best effort and gave us another fight to talk about for a while.

Pac looked like crap and still won almost every round.

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Originally Posted by awdleyfuturehalloffamer

Pac looked like crap and still won almost every round.

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Why?

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Originally Posted by Onix

-Pacquaio hit Bradley flush several times and he never really hurt Bradley


BRADLEY WON THE FIGHT.

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Those two comments just made u look like a total ass. U must've been hung over as u rewatch.

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Originally Posted by chris6878

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Originally Posted by Onix

-Pacquaio hit Bradley flush several times and he never really hurt Bradley


BRADLEY WON THE FIGHT.

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Those two comments just made u look like a total ass. U must've been hung over as u rewatch.

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Ya thats funny and all but you give no reasoning to your point of view so it pretty much makes it useless.

I gave an analysis of why I thought Bradley won, what is yours for not??

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Originally Posted by chris6878

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Originally Posted by Onix

-Pacquaio hit Bradley flush several times and he never really hurt Bradley


BRADLEY WON THE FIGHT.

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Those two comments just made u look like a total ass. U must've been hung over as u rewatch.

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but apart from that you agree with all his other points? ;D

I feel Manny looked the same as he usually does.
Just that this opponent had just had the ability took recover quick from certain left hands which were landed. And match Pacquiao's punch output- instead of suppress it.

This Pacquiao would have KOed Hatton in the 2nd as well.

Consider this.

Rumblings of PacMan's demise began after the Mosely fight...and continued thru Marquez and Bradley.

Mosely came to survive, not win. JMM made Pac look like....well...like he always looks like when fighting JMM. Bradley followed JMM cautious gameplan, tho much less effectively imo.

In contrast, PacMan's peak consisted of ODLH, Hatton, and Margarito.

What this should tell us is that PacMan looks spectacular against fighters who come forward. This style allows him to display his movement and quickness. Only once the opponent is hurt, does he come forward for the kill.

Pac looks less superhuman against fighters who go backwards, counterpunch, use a lot of movement, and basically play defense first. This is common among the great offensive fighters. Look at Duran and Chavez.

Indeed, the one bump during PacMan's exciting peak was Joshua Clottey...a guy whose major skill is his ability to cover his entire body with his arms and stay that way for an entire fight.

Pac may be aging, but with age comes the wisdom that the way you defeat a counterpuncher is to not force the fight. This makes for long stretches of boredom, as we saw last night. But long stretches of inactivity are a 2-way street.

More importantly, they are not necessarily evidence of a decline. Until a counterpuncher is able to outland Pac during these stretches, and only JMM has come close, Pac should continue with the strategy of laying back...judges be damned.

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Originally Posted by Manju

Consider this.

Rumblings of PacMan's demise began after the Mosely fight...and continued thru Marquez and Bradley.

Mosely came to survive, not win. JMM made Pac look like....well...like he always looks like when fighting JMM. Bradley followed JMM cautious gameplan, tho much less effectively imo.

In contrast, PacMan's peak consisted of ODLH, Hatton, and Margarito.

What this should tell us is that PacMan looks spectacular against fighters who come forward. This style allows him to display his movement and quickness. Only once the opponent is hurt, does he come forward for the kill.

Pac looks less superhuman against fighters who go backwards, counterpunch, use a lot of movement, and basically play defense first. This is common among the great offensive fighters. Look at Duran and Chavez.

Indeed, the one bump during PacMan's exciting peak was Joshua Clottey...a guy whose major skill is his ability to cover his entire body with his arms and stay that way for an entire fight.

Pac may be aging, but with age comes the wisdom that the way you defeat a counterpuncher is to not force the fight. This makes for long stretches of boredom, as we saw last night. But long stretches of inactivity are a 2-way street.

More importantly, they are not necessarily evidence of a decline. Until a counterpuncher is able to outland Pac during these stretches, and only JMM has come close, Pac should continue with the strategy of laying back...judges be damned.

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I agree with all that. Also take into consideration that "according to past pacs" he was fat. Not in shape at all. Gassed out from chasing in the later rounds.

The op I guess was taking a piss when PAC was punishing timm with lefts.

I know for sure now that Floyd would make him look a fool.

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Originally Posted by 0james0

I know for sure now that Floyd would make him look a fool.

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I'm not so sure. Floyd is on slide. People will not admit it but he ain't the same. Plus he doesn't like to throw punches. And his stamina is not that great anymore. And I doubt he throws enough to keep PAC off. Floyd is not as quick and doesn't move like Bradley at this age. IMO its a toss up. They both on the decline

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Originally Posted by chris6878

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Originally Posted by 0james0

I know for sure now that Floyd would make him look a fool.

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I'm not so sure. Floyd is on slide. People will not admit it but he ain't the same. Plus he doesn't like to throw punches. And his stamina is not that great anymore. And I doubt he throws enough to keep PAC off. Floyd is not as quick and doesn't move like Bradley at this age. IMO its a toss up. They both on the decline

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Mayweather is faster and hits a lot harder at 147 than Marquez and Bradley and would be hitting Pacquiao cleaner than either of them and making him miss a lot more.

Floyd never has really relied on his speed. Of course his speed helps him but he mostly stands right in front of someone and just blocks whatever they throw. I see no decline in Floyd what so ever. Hes had a decent amount of fights but really hasnt had any true wars or no fights that you could look at and say well that may have took something out of him. With Floyds amazing defense he has quit a few fights left.

Pac has had some wars and from what im hearing about this fight he showed some fatigue in the late rounds and thats not Pac like. Im gonna watch the fight ASAP. Was the decision really that bad?

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Originally Posted by cambay411

Floyd never has really relied on his speed. Of course his speed helps him but he mostly stands right in front of someone and just blocks whatever they throw. I see no decline in Floyd what so ever. Hes had a decent amount of fights but really hasnt had any true wars or no fights that you could look at and say well that may have took something out of him. With Floyds amazing defense he has quit a few fights left.

Pac has had some wars and from what im hearing about this fight he showed some fatigue in the late rounds and thats not Pac like. Im gonna watch the fight ASAP. Was the decision really that bad?

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It was a bad decision as u can see from all the discussion. Yes PAC faded. He appeared to not train seriously as he said he would. Came in at his heaviest and lacked the body we are use to. Bradley was definitely in better shape.

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Originally Posted by Onix

So ya I watched the fight live and I was surprised a bit by the scores but I also knew that I had stopped scoring the fight around the 4th round and the drinks had already caught up so I was in mob mentality and of course the crowd will cheer for Manny farting.

So rewatching it this morning on mute here is what I saw:

-Manny took the first two minutes of almost every round off, Bradley fought every minute of every round.
-Bradley landed alot of hooks to the body as Pac came in
-Pacman smiled and nodded to Bradley alot conceding that he got hit with something (The crowd and HBO never acknowledged)
-When Pac went on offense he swung wildly but he missed alot of those punches
-Bradley used the jab pretty effectively to keep Pac off him
-Pacquaio hit Bradley flush several times and he never really hurt Bradley
-Manny looked alot slower than what was being hyped by the HBO commentators during the fight.
-Bradley had great footwork and head movement, he used alot of angles to get himself out of danger.

If Bradley had any kind of punching power the fight would have looked different because Manny would have been getting knocked back by all the counters that Bradley landed and his body would have showed more welts from the body punching but regardless of punching power BRADLEY WON THE FIGHT.

Both put their best effort and gave us another fight to talk about for a while.

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Manny looked like crap and fought like crap. Where was his movement? Where were the famous Pacman angles? Where was the pop in his punches? Where was the accuracy? He stood right in front of Bradley and let Bradley do all the fighting? Pacman has aged quickly, the wars have caught up with him, if that was Floyd he was fighting he would've been humiliated and lost every round! He was still good enough to win some rounds against Bradley, but i had Bradley winning in the end because you just can't wait until the last 20 seconds of each round to do something? I thought Manny was in trouble by round 7 and 8, i just had this feeling he wasn't going to KO Bradley and he wasn't doing enough to halt Bradley's progress and win it by decision.
The demise of Pacqauio began with Marquez 3, i gave him the benefit of the doubt in that one beliveing Marquez was his kryptonite. Well, Bradley has raided Marquez's locker and stole a piece of the green stuff because Manny Pacquiao appeared listless and had none of that aura of invincibility we saw against DLH, Hatton, Margo and Cotto.
He will get a rematch, but unless Manny Pacquiao can turn back time and return to the fighting style that made him famous then it's all over for him...he will lose again.
He looked almost journeyman like in this fight. 115-113 Bradley

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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

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Originally Posted by Onix

So ya I watched the fight live and I was surprised a bit by the scores but I also knew that I had stopped scoring the fight around the 4th round and the drinks had already caught up so I was in mob mentality and of course the crowd will cheer for Manny farting.

So rewatching it this morning on mute here is what I saw:

-Manny took the first two minutes of almost every round off, Bradley fought every minute of every round.
-Bradley landed alot of hooks to the body as Pac came in
-Pacman smiled and nodded to Bradley alot conceding that he got hit with something (The crowd and HBO never acknowledged)
-When Pac went on offense he swung wildly but he missed alot of those punches
-Bradley used the jab pretty effectively to keep Pac off him
-Pacquaio hit Bradley flush several times and he never really hurt Bradley
-Manny looked alot slower than what was being hyped by the HBO commentators during the fight.
-Bradley had great footwork and head movement, he used alot of angles to get himself out of danger.

If Bradley had any kind of punching power the fight would have looked different because Manny would have been getting knocked back by all the counters that Bradley landed and his body would have showed more welts from the body punching but regardless of punching power BRADLEY WON THE FIGHT.

Both put their best effort and gave us another fight to talk about for a while.

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Manny looked like crap and fought like crap. Where was his movement? Where were the famous Pacman angles? Where was the pop in his punches? Where was the accuracy? He stood right in front of Bradley and let Bradley do all the fighting? Pacman has aged quickly, the wars have caught up with him, if that was Floyd he was fighting he would've been humiliated and lost every round! He was still good enough to win some rounds against Bradley, but i had Bradley winning in the end because you just can't wait until the last 20 seconds of each round to do something? I thought Manny was in trouble by round 7 and 8, i just had this feeling he wasn't going to KO Bradley and he wasn't doing enough to halt Bradley's progress and win it by decision.
The demise of Pacqauio began with Marquez 3, i gave him the benefit of the doubt in that one beliveing Marquez was his kryptonite. Well, Bradley has raided Marquez's locker and stole a piece of the green stuff because Manny Pacquiao appeared listless and had none of that aura of invincibility we saw against DLH, Hatton, Margo and Cotto.
He will get a rematch, but unless Manny Pacquiao can turn back time and return to the fighting style that made him famous then it's all over for him...he will lose again.
He looked almost journeyman like in this fight. 115-113 Bradley

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I still think PAC won, but he did look very un PAC like. Came in out of shape. He pulled a Lenox Lewis. I wonder based of this, does he even still have the fire? Does he even give a fuck? If his next fight he doesn't come in in normal shape......then I will really know he is done.

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Originally Posted by chris6878

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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

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Originally Posted by Onix

So ya I watched the fight live and I was surprised a bit by the scores but I also knew that I had stopped scoring the fight around the 4th round and the drinks had already caught up so I was in mob mentality and of course the crowd will cheer for Manny farting.

So rewatching it this morning on mute here is what I saw:

-Manny took the first two minutes of almost every round off, Bradley fought every minute of every round.
-Bradley landed alot of hooks to the body as Pac came in
-Pacman smiled and nodded to Bradley alot conceding that he got hit with something (The crowd and HBO never acknowledged)
-When Pac went on offense he swung wildly but he missed alot of those punches
-Bradley used the jab pretty effectively to keep Pac off him
-Pacquaio hit Bradley flush several times and he never really hurt Bradley
-Manny looked alot slower than what was being hyped by the HBO commentators during the fight.
-Bradley had great footwork and head movement, he used alot of angles to get himself out of danger.

If Bradley had any kind of punching power the fight would have looked different because Manny would have been getting knocked back by all the counters that Bradley landed and his body would have showed more welts from the body punching but regardless of punching power BRADLEY WON THE FIGHT.

Both put their best effort and gave us another fight to talk about for a while.

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Manny looked like crap and fought like crap. Where was his movement? Where were the famous Pacman angles? Where was the pop in his punches? Where was the accuracy? He stood right in front of Bradley and let Bradley do all the fighting? Pacman has aged quickly, the wars have caught up with him, if that was Floyd he was fighting he would've been humiliated and lost every round! He was still good enough to win some rounds against Bradley, but i had Bradley winning in the end because you just can't wait until the last 20 seconds of each round to do something? I thought Manny was in trouble by round 7 and 8, i just had this feeling he wasn't going to KO Bradley and he wasn't doing enough to halt Bradley's progress and win it by decision.
The demise of Pacqauio began with Marquez 3, i gave him the benefit of the doubt in that one beliveing Marquez was his kryptonite. Well, Bradley has raided Marquez's locker and stole a piece of the green stuff because Manny Pacquiao appeared listless and had none of that aura of invincibility we saw against DLH, Hatton, Margo and Cotto.
He will get a rematch, but unless Manny Pacquiao can turn back time and return to the fighting style that made him famous then it's all over for him...he will lose again.
He looked almost journeyman like in this fight. 115-113 Bradley

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I still think PAC won, but he did look very un PAC like. Came in out of shape. He pulled a Lenox Lewis. I wonder based of this, does he even still have the fire? Does he even give a fuck? If his next fight he doesn't come in in normal shape......then I will really know he is done.

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As a Pac fan for years i was shocked at his lack of intensity? Did he take Bradley lightly? Or has he just lost that burning desire? Something was not right with Pacquiao and i thought it strange that he was not getting much input from Roach during the fight? To me he looked like Mosley when he started to fade, maybe his time is up? It was a very un Pacman like performance and due credit to Bradley who hung in there and kept to his fight plan throughout, I thought he won it. Pacman could be having his last fight in November?

I didn't know journeyman fighters have the ability to put "unbeaten fighters" like the desert storm Bradley in wheelchairs in their victory press conferences and in ambulances on their way back to their cribs... At the hospital!

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Originally Posted by KananKrus

I didn't know journeyman fighters have the ability to put "unbeaten fighters" like the desert storm Bradley in wheelchairs in their victory press conferences and in ambulances on their way back to their cribs... At the hospital!

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It makes for a good story doesn't it? As i said, he looked almost journeyman like with his performance, it was lacklustre and UN-Pacman like. Bradley deserved to win.

Result was a robbery.

Makes boxing look even more of a joke.

Somebody out there made alot of money.

Bradley does not deserve another Manny fight.

Shows how little titles mean.

Now have to endure another uncompetitive fight, because of incompetiance and greed.

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Originally Posted by boyla

Result was a robbery.

Makes boxing look even more of a joke.

Somebody out there made alot of money.

Bradley does not deserve another Manny fight.

Shows how little titles mean.

Now have to endure another uncompetitive fight, because of incompetiance and greed.

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YEP.

And a very very tiny fraction of delusional fans who actually believe Bradley won the fight.

I've long said that Pacquiao is past his prime, he has been declining since the Margarito fight. Granted he still whooped Bradley last night. It is time for him to retire though. This Pacquiao is nothing like the Pacquiao who walked through Cotto, De La Hoya and Hatton.

Taped the fight.

Wanted to show my younger brother a title fight, re-kindle his interest in boxing.

How do I show him this fight, tell him to ignore the judges decisions (one was a woman)

Just a makes this whole scandal sickening, will not show him this fight bc what would he think of boxing.

From boxrec

"Among the experts above, 77 scored the bout for Pacquiao, and 1 scored the bout for Bradley. "

"It's either corruption or incompetence. There'll be a rematch. It speaks to the corruption of the sport. The criminals will be rewarded" - ESPN's Teddy Atlas
HBO's Jim Lampley referred to it as the "worst scoring he has every seen."
"People, a great sport is now on a respirator. Boxing is presently a polluted playing field in every respect. Tonight was par for the course." - Lou DiBella
"Okay well maybe not worse than my draw with Holyfield but still bad nonetheless." - Lennox Lewis
"Bradley by split decision. I am shocked. I don't even know what to say. That was absolutely horrible" - ESPN's Dan Rafael
Timothy Bradley after the fight suggested he will look at the fight replay to see if he won the fight
Bob Arum (promoter of both Fighters) "Can you believe that? Unbelievable," "I went over to Bradley before the decision and he said, 'I tried hard but I couldn't beat the guy.'" "I'm going to make a lot of money on the rematch, but this [decision] was outrageous."

I was most shocked by Manny's punch output. It was abysmally low for him. He is all about intensity and high output and yet I think there were only 2 rounds where he got the output up to typical numbers. He simply wouldn't throw for most of a round and would then start winging in the last minute or less.

He also doesn't know how to cut the ring and keep a fighter on the ropes. Either that or he doesn't have the legs to do so.

Manny has been in the spotlight a while now and people have been observing him and the formula has been worked out. The weaknesses are there and along with Manny's declining activity he is very beatable.

I no longer have any interest in Pac/Mayweather as I think it is now a foregone conclusion. The blueprint is there and Floyd would capitalize.

You move and circle away from the powerhand, make sure you jab consistently and throw combinations to keep him guessing. Rinse and repeat. There are no new dimensions to Manny Pac. He just hits hard and has fast hands. Neutralise that and you have a decent shot.

Manny's power is overrated too. He scores flash knockdowns, but the Hatton KO has been shown to be an exception. Manny has solid power at JWW and above, but the myth of him being a monster is gone. He put Marquez down more at the lower weights and in recent fights he slows down a bundle to finish at a decision. He can hurt fighters by surprise, but he isn't blowing anyone away. He can beat you to the punch so fighters know not to trade recklessly as in the case of Hatton. Hatton told you what not to do against Manny. Another step in learning how to deal with Manny at the higher weights.

Feed Manny someone who will stand there and he looks good. Give him someone with the merest hint of an IQ and he is befuddled. Amir Khan might well be able to beat Manny too. I don't say that with any particular satisfaction.

Yes Manny looked ordinary the last couple fight maybe it could be a wear and tear in his entire career, i think he fight for lucrative payday every fight now win or lose he can make a lot to his pocket.

Many of people amazed with punching power at lower weights maybe till welters, in reality he accustom to his agility and speed or with accumulation of punches specially when he is on welters, this (with Bradley)was his highest wiegh- in at Welters seem to hit a exactly at 147, supposedly he doesn't do that thing even at catch weight Marga at 150lbs he just weighs 144-ish at weigh ins.

Overall i think he's bored i think since after Cotto/Margarito and the failure to meet with Floyd the past couple of years.

I guess to agree with Floyd now, he should leave Bob Arum right away.

I thought that, for much of the fight, Bradley looked confused and overmatched. Didn't know how to respond to Pac's speed advantage. But Pac let him off the hook by fighting in spurts and never really pushing an advantage gained by landing a telling blow. His pace slowed so much that he let Bradley not only back into the fight, but he let him take the initiative. At the end Bradley was the guy fighting like he was winning.
I had the fight 116-112 Pac, but more or less talked myself into a 115-113. The decision suprised me, as I didn't see Bradley winning the fight. But a spilt or majority decision, with one judge calling it even would not have suprised me. Bradley didn't impress me at all, and neither did Pacquiao. Not much of a fight, really.

pacs main weapon is his speed and stamina. no matter how hard you train both qualities will diminish with age and ring wear.

from 6 punch combos non stop for 12 rounds he started pacing himself. he learnt how to move in, throw a bunch of punches then move out. if he still wants to prolong his career for a few more fights he must learn to pace and box more intelligently now.

fighters who relies too much on speed and stamina often has short shelf life. he still has a few more fights but thats about it.