I live in The USA i love Joe calzaghe he was great fighter.
Alot of Americans hate him.
he went 46-0
i loved watching him fight.
two things i liked about joe high workrate and he was fast.
idk why people hate him with a passion.
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I live in The USA i love Joe calzaghe he was great fighter.
Alot of Americans hate him.
he went 46-0
i loved watching him fight.
two things i liked about joe high workrate and he was fast.
idk why people hate him with a passion.
1. cause he was a cocky arrogant cuntQuote:
Originally Posted by heavyweightcp
2. he avoided real opponents until either A) he got them on his home turf or B) they were shot to shit
that pretty much sums it up
Because when you are that GOOD, everybody hates you as for him being arrogant cunt,yes he is but
so are most of the great fighters.;D
It is incredibly easy to hate on Joe if your not a fan out of sheer national pride. He was for the best part a stay at home fighter who for whatever reason didn't land fights with the best at the right time. On top of that he was a big mouth.
I think what he did to Kessler - at the end of a long career - is enough evidence of how good of a fighter Joe was... And that was after his hands had turned soft ;)
You have to be great to be arrogant so joe hasn't the right to be arrogant. He was a protected puke like bute.
It's because he is welsh , if he was English they would be bragging him up . Like any Murray in tennis when he loses he's Scottish when he wins he's british
No that's bullshit. It's not the English that hate on Calzaghe at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trecco bay
Come on now Joe would have schooled him, and Froch as well.;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Dropanuke
Alot of the hate stems from not fighting in america from the early part of his career and not fighting a prime roy jones or other top tier american fighter.
I respect calzaghe stamina and workrate as he never seems to tire.
He is undeafeated and all his fights could not have been bums.
Frank warren has alot to do in protecting his fighter and it worked to joes advantage.
No one knows who would have won between joe and carl froch but perhaps joe would have nudged it.
But i must say carl fights anyone in any country at any time and he has ducked no one.
Froch gives his all,but he doe's no have the skill's to beat Calzaghe ,you don't and stand in front of FrochQuote:
Originally Posted by imp
you box him. Joe would have beat him very much, the same way he beat Kessler, Froch has a good engine but Calzaghe has a better one.
We seem to forget Joe, hand very bad hand trouble throughout his career, so considering being a undefeated World champion, what a feat as they say second to none.!
Now now!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia bandoCome on now Joe would have schooled him, and Froch as well.;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Dropanuke
Most Englishmen don't care if you're Welsh, Scottish or English. It's the Scots and Welshmen with the chips on their shoulder who act like England's little angry brother and hate it... England just smiles and ruffles their hair!Quote:
Originally Posted by Trecco bay
I've been in pubs, when scotland beat france... Getting cheered on by Englishmen, fuck they wouldn't have been much happier if it was England playing! Would you see the same thing in Scotland or Wales? Would you fuck! You'd more likely see the fucking French cheered.
It's like short man syndrome.
Point I'm making is - we don't care if Calzaghe is Welsh... Not a fuck.
he tried to fight jones and hopkins for 10 years that is a fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales1. cause he was a cocky arrogant cuntQuote:
Originally Posted by heavyweightcp
2. he avoided real opponents until either A) he got them on his home turf or B) they were shot to shit
that pretty much sums it up
Did somebody call my name?? ;D
ROFLMAO Slappy tried to fight Jones & Hopkins for 10 yrs????? Who writes your lines coz youre the best comedian Ive seen in ages. Slappy even tried to back out of fighting Lacey LOL till enzo kicked his ass & MADE him fight He retired rather than give Hopkins a return in front of his home fans, JOE LACKED THE COJONES OF A REAL CHAMPQuote:
Originally Posted by heavyweightcphe tried to fight jones and hopkins for 10 years that is a fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales1. cause he was a cocky arrogant cuntQuote:
Originally Posted by heavyweightcp
2. he avoided real opponents until either A) he got them on his home turf or B) they were shot to shit
that pretty much sums it up
No offense but that's a crock of shit and I'll direct that comment at the other two posters who attempted to sustain the above.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales1. cause he was a cocky arrogant cuntQuote:
Originally Posted by heavyweightcp
2. he avoided real opponents until either A) he got them on his home turf or B) they were shot to shit
that pretty much sums it up
I would like to ask who he could have fought that he didn't and when it could have taken place? Who are these people that he ducked?
Him being an arrogant dick has little or nothing to do with him as a fighter anymore then Robinson's womanizing had to do with his. And so what if he stayed at home. So did Monzon and countless other greats.
Bingo ! Great post right there.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales1. cause he was a cocky arrogant cuntQuote:
Originally Posted by heavyweightcp
2. he avoided real opponents until either A) he got them on his home turf or B) they were shot to shit
that pretty much sums it up
Fuck Calzaghe and is slap happy style and overinflated ego.
Jones, Toney or B Hop in their primes woulda smoked him, Jones especially.
Lol
Just to be clear:
At no point in Joe Calzaghes career could he have ever had the opportunity to fight James Toney, Roy Jones or Bhop at 168.
No theres an excuse for him not fighting every meaningful opponent if you are a big enough supporter of the man.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
Just as there is plenty of reasons why he could have fought Roy Jones Jr. at light heavyweight well before Jones was a shell of his former self.
Its all perspective and who's corner you are in so theres no sense throwing a bunch of names out there of who he could have fought as they will all be shot down with excuses and various reasons as to why it wasn't Calzaghe's fault that he fought Mario Veit a half dozen times ;D
I'm an American who used to hate on Calzaghe, to be honest I thought he was an overrated fraud, but I grew to like the guy, and respect his ability.Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyweightcp
Not many championship level pugs go undefeated, 46-0 is a damn fine career record, in any book. Fuck the haters. ;)
What opponents could he have fought and why does this urban legend continue to have shelf life? There is no one he could have fought that he didn't unless you include Stieglitz lol prior to Kessler.Quote:
Originally Posted by HulkNo theres an excuse for him not fighting every meaningful opponent if you are a big enough supporter of the man.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
Just as there is plenty of reasons why he could have fought Roy Jones Jr. at light heavyweight well before Jones was a shell of his former self.
Its all perspective and who's corner you are in so theres no sense throwing a bunch of names out there of who he could have fought as they will all be shot down with excuses and various reasons as to why it wasn't Calzaghe's fault that he fought Mario Veit a half dozen times ;D
Funny how Sir Slappy absolutely destroyed the next coming in Lacy, later dismissed as a bum of course and then gave the heir apparent in Kessler a boxing lesson.
I don't get this lack of middle ground with Calzaghe. What. You either have to worship the ground he walks on..... or you're a hater? It doesn't work that way. There's pluses and minuses, as far as I'm concerned.
Pluses
- He did finish 46-0. Not easy to do under any circumstances.
- He did have two very good fights (Lacy, Kessler). Those shouldn't be held against him.
- He was busy (workrate). Quality of punches wasn't the best.... but I'll mention that later (see minuses).
Minuses
- He fought exclusively in the UK. Only for his last two fights did he venture to the U.S. In the global world of boxing, sorry..... that's a minus.
- He followed up Lacy with Peter ("Are you kidding me??") Manfredo two fights later. What the hell was all THAT about? He beats a Jeff Lacy, only to retreat to a Peter Manfredo?
- His win over B-Hop was highly disputed. Hardly a career-defining fight. He then ended up by getting a decision over an over-the-hill RJJ, and called it a career.
- What Calzaghe fans "love" to hear: His pitty-patter punches, delivered in slapping fashion... particularly in his flurries. He did it against Manfredo... he did it against B-Hop... he did it all the time. When shown in slo-mo.... the slap-fests were almost comical. He hurt his hands? Fine. But his fights were definitely not fan-friendly for me.
(Cue to Fuckster. Come running in here and express your outrage.)
;)
Dariusz Michelsweski, Sven Ottke, Antwun Echols, Marcus Beyer, Danny Green, Anthony Mundine. There's six missing from his resume that were reasonable options at one time.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitWhat opponents could he have fought and why does this urban legend continue to have shelf life? There is no one he could have fought that he didn't unless you include Stieglitz lol prior to Kessler.Quote:
Originally Posted by HulkNo theres an excuse for him not fighting every meaningful opponent if you are a big enough supporter of the man.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
Just as there is plenty of reasons why he could have fought Roy Jones Jr. at light heavyweight well before Jones was a shell of his former self.
Its all perspective and who's corner you are in so theres no sense throwing a bunch of names out there of who he could have fought as they will all be shot down with excuses and various reasons as to why it wasn't Calzaghe's fault that he fought Mario Veit a half dozen times ;D
Funny how Sir Slappy absolutely destroyed the next coming in Lacy, later dismissed as a bum of course and then gave the heir apparent in Kessler a boxing lesson.
Calzaghe would have been the favorite to beat nearly all of them and blame can be put on Ottke in particular for not fighting outside his home, but the fact remains that all six are missing from his record.
Theres always guys a great fighter could have fought and Calzaghe is no different.
And I never thought Lacy was a bum, I always liked him even after he was revealed as a one dimensional fighter.
I didn't like the way Calzaghe fought, but how can you deny the guy the respect he deserves? 46 wins and no losses, and he was smart enough to get out and stay out.
Tito for a start , a lot of fighter's don't leave the USA to fight some do I no, you may not like his style of fighting fine.Calzaghe would have been a great 15 round fighter as well, his fitness and work rateQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
second to none.We can look back at most fighter's careers, and pick hole's in them my point is when
fighter's finish in this game. Sometime's you don't appreciate what you had till it's GONE.;)
Two fights that you will give him credit for. That is not quite taking the middle ground. Then you again show your double standards by trying to bait anybody who dare be reasonable and can be rational about Calzaghe's career. While we are on the subject of twos try, troll and hater.;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Outrage? Fuckster is the calmest man in town and has never took umbrage with someones opinion. He just exposes factual errors and glaring weakness in certain arguments. Nothing more, nothing less.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
RAY LEONARD ON JC:
“When Joe Calzaghe beat Jeff Lacy he pretty much shocked the boxing establishment, even yours truly. I didn’t think Joe could beat him.”
"Joe has got great punching power and has all the attributes you need," said Leonard.
"He would have held his own against all the greats I fought, like Marvin Hagler and Thomas Hearns. And he would hold his own with the others like Bernard Hopkins.
"He has the talent and heart and will be the undisputed champion."
MANNY STEWARD ON JC:
"calzaghe may have to be considered as one of the greats"
NAZ RICHARDSON ON JC:
“It’s hard for us over here to respect Calzaghe’s style because it’s so far different from what we allow our athletes to do here. We won’t allow our athletes to slap with punches. I tell people a lot of times, I applaud Calzaghe’s father because had you brought Joe Calzaghe over here to some of the greatest trainers that live over here, they probably wouldn’t have found the same success with him. I’m talking about some of the all time great trainers. Some of our guys like even the current guys that are out there now, like John David Jackson, Freddie Roach, and people of that nature, Emanuel Steward—they won’t let their guys out of the gym without turning those punches over. So we just wouldn’t accept that style here so it would never have been able to grow and flourish into what he became. We would have probably snuffed that fighter out a long time ago, but his dad being new to boxing he let it slide and it turned out to work. Sometimes ignorance is bliss.”
JONES JR ON JC:
"Calzaghe's one of the best fighters ever, one of the greatest of all time,"
"He has a 100% record of 46-0, Marciano was 49-0. He's a true athlete I respect - we've nothing bad to say to each other, we'll give it all in the ring."
FRANK WARREN ON JC:
“Joe Calzaghe at his prime and all of those guys at their prime – including Steve Collins and Roy Jones – he would have beaten them.”
SAKIO BIKA
When asked who the best fighter he fought is:
"calzaghe"
LENNOX ON JC:
"Joe has beaten everyone there is to beat and has nothing else to prove so I think he should retire."
DAVID HAYE ON JC:
"Very rarely do you get a guy with his kind of record retire on top form. Lennox Lewis showed you can walk away from the game and stay away from it. Roy Jones should have retired after he beat John Ruiz but he tainted his legacy by carrying on"
NIGEL BENN ON JC:
Asked whether Joe Calzaghe would have beaten Benn, Eubank, Collins and other greats from the era, Nigel Benn said:
“He might have beaten us all, who knows, we’ll never know.”
MARVIN HAGLER ON JC:
"I knew the first time I saw Calzaghe that he really had something, he went in there completely unfazed against (Chris) Eubank which nobody else had done. Eubank was the guy who usually seemed to have control of everything around him but the way Calzaghe went in there and manhandled him like that...
"I was watching it in Italy, it was the same night England beat Italy to qualify for the soccer World Cup.
"Calzaghe showed and proved power, speed, strength, workrate, stamina, chin, heart and every tangible and intangible that night and that's why I'm not suprised that he's not lost since.
"Sometimes it's like watching a welterweight or junior-middleweight in a super-middleweight's body because he's so nimble and sharp handed. I would never bet against him."
EUBANK ON JC:
"One of the greatest world champions in history and never had a hard fight. He got out with his face intact and plenty of money, one in a million."
He gets a lot of hate from certain quarters because he slapped there fighters silly...
Take the likes of robin reid or ritchie woodhall (not even calzaghes best wins), reid was one seriously under-rated fighter in his day. He only got knocked down and out by Jeff Lacy when he was totally shot, Lacy would never have put Reid down in his prime and in fact I reckon Reid would have done him. Reid was rated in the ring mag top 10 for 7 years.
If Reid was not deducted and faced such a poor bias ref he would have beaten GIF decision maestro Sven 'the most beaten unbeaten fighter ever!' otke! a disgraceful/notoriously bad decision! Had justice been done, Reid would have been a two time, three belt winning world champion..Reid was honestly just outside the 10 ten best 168 fighters ever on his best day.
This is also highligted by reids beating of henry wharton, henry pushed prime benn and eubank all the way in 2 close fights (in fact he had benn out on his feet at one point!) Wharton was one of those rare examples of a very talented fighter that just missed out on world honours (a herol 'bomber' graham type fighter!).
Woodhall won bronze behind roy jones at the olympics (they don't hand those out in sweet shops) both men were certainly better than the eventual winner who won gold, thats for sure! Ritchie beat thulani maliunga as a pro, malinga holds a win over nigel been and dropped a very close SD to chris eubank! Woodhall also beat the slightly overlooked silvio branco who beat glenn johnson, stipe drews, thomas tate and manny siaca.
Both men would easily be top 10 in this era, both were fine athletetes and very good fighters, take them out of calzaghe's era and put them in this or any era in fact and they would be competitive! I'd certainbly take reid to eek out a decision over i.e sakio bika, and he'd certainly UD glenn johnson who never did anything at 168lbs, and woodhall would be favourite over the likes of allen green for sure and he'd give abraham and froch a fight!
It's sheer hate or ignorance that fuels the calzaghe bashing, he has some solid wins....So to suggest calzaghe and his opponents were no good is simply to perpetuate a haters myth! Woodhall and reid hold victories over fighters who either beat or pushed benn/eubank all the way in close (even debateable) fights! That is very telling...not to mention a fairly green calzaghe outboxing and dominating a 30 yr old eubank who had recently lost a dodgy decision in ireland for a world title and went onto participate in a FOTY for another title against thompson in which many thought eubank won or at least deserved a draw (hence the quick rematch!)
Byron mitchell is a 2X WBA SMW champ who beat ATG SMW #1 frankie Liles (something Ward is praised for doing)! Mitchell was rated in the ring mag SMW top ten for 5 years. Mitchell was 25-2 with 1 draw at the time he fought joe, his 2 losses were debateable decisions.
Eubank had just gone 1-1 with Steve Collins in most peoples minds before he fought Calzaghe, they were both toss ups the Collins fights. After Calzaghe he twice got hosed out of the CRUISERWEIGHT title, once by a bad decision and in the second one his opponent needed a KO to win because Eubank was so far infront...It got stopped because of swelling. Eubank was still an A-level fighter when he fought Joe, no doubt about that...As evidenced by his fight of the year (voted as FOTY on both sides of the pond) with the 'cat'. Eubank had just recently turned 31 when he faced Calzaghe. Eubank being shot is a haters myth, calzaghe had only been pro barely 4 years and comprehensively outboxed eubank flooring him twice, underrated win.
kessler Who put on a masterclass vs undefeated andrade, il enlighten you to andrade... he beat tito mendoza (who holds a win over the aforementioned keith holmes) beat otis grant, robert stieglitz, yusaf mack, vitaly tsypko, and was jobbed vs bute first time out!
-kessler also stopped cesar green in 1 round (green had a trilogy of fights with william joppy)
-kessler also easily beat anthony mundine, mundine schooled antwun echols and danny green (the guy tarver just beat
-Mundine is also the only man to defeat the talented and current IBF MW champ danny geale.
-In kesslers 3rd defence of his wba title he unified against wbc champ Beyer, beyer beat danny green twice and ritchie woodhall.
-kessler also beat former WBC champ eric lucas, lucas holds wins over vinny pazienza, glenn catley, omar sheika, segunda mercado and a draw with echols.
add to that wins over manny siaca and its a very impressive resume, he experienced a bit of a bump in the road with andre ward (that is still a tainted win for ward though considering kesslers eye injury, headbutts and his loss already to calzaghe) but redeemed himself with a win over froch.
Brewer (who beat herol graham) lacy (who was favourite) bika (who gave ward his toughest ever fight and is looking at a title shot again soon) hopkins was humiliated, the jones comeback was emphatically ended (the same jones that had defeated trinidad, lacy, sheika, stole 5 rounds off of linear champ hopkins, in fact jones was even schooling lebedev before the stoppage!)! Sheika who beat glenn johnson, starie who beat clinton woods etc..
It is far from unimpressive.
You wont ever change everyone minds and opinions. You have to respect joes achievements and he got out the game healthy.
But some people still have the feeling if he took on all comers like froch has his record might have been different.
Guys with skillset like ward and dirrel would have given him issues and there were top better contenders like that during joes era.
Some people will always feel there was severe padding going on excessive feigning injuries.
Quote:
Originally Posted by imp
very few fighters in the history of boxing have taken on all comers like froch
He's the Chris John of Wales.
Froch fights anywhere and anyone as well.
I like joe but wish he would have had more balls and took alittle more risks..he couldnt even give old boy hopkins a rematch.
He could have went up in weight earlier but its all in the past now he is retired now and i hope he enjoys it.
Calzaghe did not fear any one, why give Hopkins a rematch he can't stand the guy, why put money inQuote:
Originally Posted by imp
his pocket. Old BHop is a money hoar, how do you hurt him you don't let him make money off your back
that's how. When Froch was giving it, on a interview about fighting Joe told him I will fight you, but the money has to be right.Remember for all the bullshit Froch ,say's I will fight any one, he doe's it for the money, or are some of you that daft you think he does it for nothing.;D
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenbeanzTwo fights that you will give him credit for. That is not quite taking the middle ground. Then you again show your double standards by trying to bait anybody who dare be reasonable and can be rational about Calzaghe's career. While we are on the subject of twos try, troll and hater.;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Ouch, beanz..... that hurt.
I give Calzaghe credit for some things. I just don't cherish the ground he walks on. And I explain what I don't like about him. How's that being a "hater"?
Of course froch fights for money..everyone works for something. Like i said before i am not a hater of joe i am just explaining some of the reason why some people will never give him the full credit his fans thinks he deserves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia bandoCalzaghe did not fear any one, why give Hopkins a rematch he can't stand the guy, why put money inQuote:
Originally Posted by imp
his pocket. Old BHop is a money hoar, how do you hurt him you don't let him make money off your back
that's how. When Froch was giving it, on a interview about fighting Joe told him I will fight you, but the money has to be right.Remember for all the bullshit Froch ,say's I will fight any one, he doe's it for the money, or are some of you that daft you think he does it for nothing.;D
I think alot of peoplle like roy jones in his prime alot better than joe was in his prime and it turns into a jones fans vs calzaghe fans thread.
I am not a fan of frochs fighting style or calzaghes but i just feel in my heart of hearts that regardless of money froch has fought a tougher set of fighters in his short amount of time than calzaghe did in that same short amount of time.
Froch fights for money of course but i dont seem to remember him pulling an injury to get out of a fight or ducking anyone.
Its well documented that joe could have fought journey nan glen johnson on numerous occasions but pulled out.
It would have been nice to see joe fight a dawson or pascal before he left for good but he didnt.
The calzaghe fans will say the hand speed and stamina would destroy these fighters, well im sure there right..but he should have done more.