Indian Summers

Which fighters have had Indian summers in their career, by that I mean where they should be losing more fights but instead started winning them and reaching another high in their career? They then go back down the slippery path of not doing well and losing the big fights again.

Glenn Johnson is a good example, he should have lost to Roy Jones but surprised everyone and knocked him out and then went on to beat Tarver would be described as an Indian Summer in their career.

Julius Francis another example, he beats Pele Reid Scott Welsh and undefeated Danny Williams which allowed him to fight Tyson and earn a career high.

Steve Collins. 30 years old, and thrice beaten by world champions. Went on to be a two weight world champion with about eight or nine defences.

Johnny Nelson, had a string of defeats behind him before he became
cruiserweight champ for a good number of years.

Paul Robinson
George Foreman
Larry Holmes
Evander Holyfield

Job Biscuit (nany more but cant think right now)!!!

eh eh!!!

Good ones there. Nelson lost to many heavyweight like Ruiz.

Did not think of Collins either but it is true. Super middle and tired Eubanks and battle worn Benn were there for the taking.

Recently, you could probably say Garcia. He has a far from perfect record, now multi belt champ at the weight.

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Originally Posted by 0james0

Recently, you could probably say Garcia. He has a far from perfect record, now multi belt champ at the weight.

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He is a bit young, do you think this is his career high already?

James Toney . After his lackluster run at 175 , he went on 2 beat Vassily Jirov @ 190 and yet even later drew with Rahman and gave Sam Peter a competitive fight in their 1st .

Mike McCallum after "losing" 2 Kalambay went on 2 win d 160 WBA title and later "losing" 2 Toney , went on 2 become a titlist at 175 .

Arnold Cream after losing d rematch 2 Louis , still went on 2 win d title .



Walker Smith Jr. after his 1st loss 2 Gene Fullmer avenged it by KO .

Juan Manuel Marquez after losing 2 Pacquiao and later 2 Mayweather .

Floyd Patterson after losing his title , went on 2 achieve much bigger feats than he managed as a protected champion .

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Originally Posted by Master

Good ones there. Nelson lost to many heavyweight like Ruiz.

Did not think of Collins either but it is true. Super middle and tired Eubanks and battle worn Benn were there for the taking.

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Collins was more spent than them by d time he fought them due 2 his much tougher opposition , especially more than Eubanks whom was and is actually 2 years younger than Collins .

He fought Tony Thornton , Kalambay , McCalum and Reggie Johnson and Kevin Watts .
He fought younger versions of Sam Storey and Tony Thornton than Eubanks did later .
Collins' level of opposition was tougher than Eubanks' , his style more demanding and he was 2 years older . How can any1 still believe that Eubanks was more shot than Collins by d time that they fought ?

Carlos Baldomir springs to mind when he upset Judah then beat Arturo Gatti then made a good payday against Mayweather as well.

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by 0james0

Recently, you could probably say Garcia. He has a far from perfect record, now multi belt champ at the weight.

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He is a bit young, do you think this is his career high already?

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Yeah I do actually. I can't see him being able to mix it with the biggest names which is certainly now deserves too.

Maybe he'll get a couple losses, then regroup and win again. But your right, he is probably too young to really be in this thread.

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Originally Posted by frankenfrank

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Originally Posted by Master

Good ones there. Nelson lost to many heavyweight like Ruiz.

Did not think of Collins either but it is true. Super middle and tired Eubanks and battle worn Benn were there for the taking.

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Collins was more spent than them by d time he fought them due 2 his much tougher opposition , especially more than Eubanks whom was and is actually 2 years younger than Collins .

He fought Tony Thornton , Kalambay , McCalum and Reggie Johnson and Kevin Watts .
He fought younger versions of Sam Storey and Tony Thornton than Eubanks did later .
Collins' level of opposition was tougher than Eubanks , his style more demanding and he was 2 years older . How can any1 still believe that Eubanks was more shot than Collins by d time that they fought ?

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Age is just a number. Yes, Eubank was younger, but their first clash was Collins' 32nd fight, Eubank's 44th. That makes a difference.
And besides, it was Eubank's grueling schedule that set about this loss and his struggles to make the weight limit. His sky contract had him defending his belt every 10 weeks. Astonishing by modern standards. Towards the end there was a lot of controversy around Eubank as he admitted that he didn't eat or drink for two days to make the 168lb limit for his final few defences. That takes its toll, especially against a busy fighter like Collins.

Dennis Andries , his fights with Harding and with Hearns , the Hackney Rock he would give his all , win some lose some, his record won 49 lost 14+2 draw's, 2 time's WBC light -HW Champion.:)

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Originally Posted by Bobthepen

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Originally Posted by frankenfrank

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Originally Posted by Master

Good ones there. Nelson lost to many heavyweight like Ruiz.

Did not think of Collins either but it is true. Super middle and tired Eubanks and battle worn Benn were there for the taking.

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Collins was more spent than them by d time he fought them due 2 his much tougher opposition , especially more than Eubanks whom was and is actually 2 years younger than Collins .

He fought Tony Thornton , Kalambay , McCalum and Reggie Johnson and Kevin Watts .
He fought younger versions of Sam Storey and Tony Thornton than Eubanks did later .
Collins' level of opposition was tougher than Eubanks , his style more demanding and he was 2 years older . How can any1 still believe that Eubanks was more shot than Collins by d time that they fought ?

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Age is just a number. Yes, Eubank was younger, but their first clash was Collins' 32nd fight, Eubank's 44th. That makes a difference.
And besides, it was Eubank's grueling schedule that set about this loss and his struggles to make the weight limit. His sky contract had him defending his belt every 10 weeks. Astonishing by modern standards. Towards the end there was a lot of controversy around Eubank as he admitted that he didn't eat or drink for two days to make the 168lb limit for his final few defences. That takes its toll, especially against a busy fighter like Collins.

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It's possible that Eubanks told d truth but it's also possible that he lied 2 make n excuse .
Eubanks' bigger # of listed fights is a result of his busy schedule of fighting stiffs , whatever it was called . Fact is Collins fought tougher opponents , u can simply compare Eubanks' top 8 fights 2 Collins' .
Both fought Benn*2 , Eubanks fought d younger versions of Benn , but Collins was shot himself against Benn , both fought each other .
Both fought Sam Storey & Tony Thornton but Collins fought d younger versions of both .
Eubanks also fought Michael Watson*2 and Henry Wharton but Collins fought Reggie Johnson , Mike McCallum , Sumbu Kalambay and Kevin Watts .

However , Eubanks indeed fought more fights that don't count .

Eubanks fought Benn and Watson twice which essentially finished him off as an elite fighter. He took the money after that and fought easy fighters. Steve Collins was limited, Eubanks would have destroyed him at his best.

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Originally Posted by Master

Eubanks fought Benn and Watson twice which essentially finished him off as an elite fighter. He took the money after that and fought easy fighters. Steve Collins was limited, Eubanks would have destroyed him at his best.

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In one Collins was what he was, Eubank and Benn had been through the mill, he was lucky he faced 2
old fighting dogs with no teeth.;D

Arturo Gatti had a couple solid rebounds from big defeats and he should have been finished well before Mayweather got to him

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Originally Posted by Master

Eubanks fought Benn and Watson twice which essentially finished him off as an elite fighter. He took the money after that and fought easy fighters. Steve Collins was limited, Eubanks would have destroyed him at his best.

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Collins fought McCallum , Kalambay , Reggie Johnson , Tony Thornton and Kevin Watts , once each , which essentially finished him off as n elite fighter . In addition he was Benn's age and 2 years older than Eubanks . Yet he fought each twice . Collins was limited so i guess Eubanks and Benn were unlimited , which is y they stuck 2 British & Euro level , or fought aged fighters like Eubanks did vs Thornton and Benn did vs n also drained Barkley . Benn got his S drilled whenever he stepped up . Old drained Barkley was not a step up 4 Benn . fighting McClellan was , but those whom watched d fight , remember it and understood what they saw know that McClellan would have finished him off as soon as d 1st rd if d bought & sold French referee in Britain was not repeatedly standing in his way and preventing him 2 finish . It was McClellan TKO1 Benn reversed by a criminal referee .

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Originally Posted by frankenfrank

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Originally Posted by Master

Eubanks fought Benn and Watson twice which essentially finished him off as an elite fighter. He took the money after that and fought easy fighters. Steve Collins was limited, Eubanks would have destroyed him at his best.

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Collins fought McCallum , Kalambay , Reggie Johnson , Tony Thornton and Kevin Watts , once each , which essentially finished him off as n elite fighter . In addition he was Benn's age and 2 years older than Eubanks . Yet he fought each twice . Collins was limited so i guess Eubanks and Benn were unlimited , which is y they stuck 2 British & Euro level , or fought aged fighters like Eubanks did vs Thornton and Benn did vs n also drained Barkley . Benn got his S drilled whenever he stepped up . Old drained Barkley was not a step up 4 Benn . fighting McClellan was , but those whom watched d fight , remember it and understood what they saw know that McClellan would have finished him off as soon as d 1st rd if d bought & sold French referee in Britain was not repeatedly standing in his way and preventing him 2 finish . It was McClellan TKO1 Benn reversed by a criminal referee .

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You do really go off point. McCallum is the only name there that would definitely beat Eubanks and Benn, maybe Kalamabay. The others have very little chance. However my point is true that Eubanks was not the same fighter after his fight with Watson, neither was Benn after the McClellan fight.

Mike Tyson after prison really should have been beaten. Riddick Bowe should have been beaten. Neither man's promoter would dare allow for that to happen though.

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by frankenfrank

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Originally Posted by Master

Eubanks fought Benn and Watson twice which essentially finished him off as an elite fighter. He took the money after that and fought easy fighters. Steve Collins was limited, Eubanks would have destroyed him at his best.

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Collins fought McCallum , Kalambay , Reggie Johnson , Tony Thornton and Kevin Watts , once each , which essentially finished him off as n elite fighter . In addition he was Benn's age and 2 years older than Eubanks . Yet he fought each twice . Collins was limited so i guess Eubanks and Benn were unlimited , which is y they stuck 2 British & Euro level , or fought aged fighters like Eubanks did vs Thornton and Benn did vs n also drained Barkley . Benn got his S drilled whenever he stepped up . Old drained Barkley was not a step up 4 Benn . fighting McClellan was , but those whom watched d fight , remember it and understood what they saw know that McClellan would have finished him off as soon as d 1st rd if d bought & sold French referee in Britain was not repeatedly standing in his way and preventing him 2 finish . It was McClellan TKO1 Benn reversed by a criminal referee .

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You do really go off point. McCallum is the only name there that would definitely beat Eubanks and Benn, maybe Kalamabay. The others have very little chance. However my point is true that Eubanks was not the same fighter after his fight with Watson, neither was Benn after the McClellan fight.

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The point being Collin's got lucky, Benn won the fight it could have been stopped in the 1st live with it.
Master gives the correct view, in my eyes.;)

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by frankenfrank

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Originally Posted by Master

Eubanks fought Benn and Watson twice which essentially finished him off as an elite fighter. He took the money after that and fought easy fighters. Steve Collins was limited, Eubanks would have destroyed him at his best.

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Collins fought McCallum , Kalambay , Reggie Johnson , Tony Thornton and Kevin Watts , once each , which essentially finished him off as n elite fighter . In addition he was Benn's age and 2 years older than Eubanks . Yet he fought each twice . Collins was limited so i guess Eubanks and Benn were unlimited , which is y they stuck 2 British & Euro level , or fought aged fighters like Eubanks did vs Thornton and Benn did vs n also drained Barkley . Benn got his S drilled whenever he stepped up . Old drained Barkley was not a step up 4 Benn . fighting McClellan was , but those whom watched d fight , remember it and understood what they saw know that McClellan would have finished him off as soon as d 1st rd if d bought & sold French referee in Britain was not repeatedly standing in his way and preventing him 2 finish . It was McClellan TKO1 Benn reversed by a criminal referee .

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You do really go off point. McCallum is the only name there that would definitely beat Eubanks and Benn, maybe Kalamabay. The others have very little chance. However my point is true that Eubanks was not the same fighter after his fight with Watson, neither was Benn after the McClellan fight.

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I give both Benn and Eubanks more of a chance against McCallum than i give them vs Kalambay or Johnson .
Collins fought d better opponents and was not a protected British fighter like Benn & Eubanks were , get over it .

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Originally Posted by Dia bando

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by frankenfrank

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Originally Posted by Master

Eubanks fought Benn and Watson twice which essentially finished him off as an elite fighter. He took the money after that and fought easy fighters. Steve Collins was limited, Eubanks would have destroyed him at his best.

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Collins fought McCallum , Kalambay , Reggie Johnson , Tony Thornton and Kevin Watts , once each , which essentially finished him off as n elite fighter . In addition he was Benn's age and 2 years older than Eubanks . Yet he fought each twice . Collins was limited so i guess Eubanks and Benn were unlimited , which is y they stuck 2 British & Euro level , or fought aged fighters like Eubanks did vs Thornton and Benn did vs n also drained Barkley . Benn got his S drilled whenever he stepped up . Old drained Barkley was not a step up 4 Benn . fighting McClellan was , but those whom watched d fight , remember it and understood what they saw know that McClellan would have finished him off as soon as d 1st rd if d bought & sold French referee in Britain was not repeatedly standing in his way and preventing him 2 finish . It was McClellan TKO1 Benn reversed by a criminal referee .

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You do really go off point. McCallum is the only name there that would definitely beat Eubanks and Benn, maybe Kalamabay. The others have very little chance. However my point is true that Eubanks was not the same fighter after his fight with Watson, neither was Benn after the McClellan fight.

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The point being Collin's got lucky, Benn won the fight it could have been stopped in the 1st live with it.
Master gives the correct view, in my eyes.;)

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McClellan was finishing Benn and d ref kept getting in his way and prevented him from ending it . Benn only "won" due 2 a crime (by d ref and those who bribed him) and then add his constant fouls later . Live with it .