Greatest amateur fighter of all time..

Who is it?

Lazslo Papp for me. He won three Olympic Gold Medals (first man to ever do so in amateur boxing) at three consecutive Olympic Games: London 1948, Helsinki 1952, Melbourne 1956. He also won the European Amateur Championships in 1949 and 1951.

He had 312 amateur contests, he lost only five and scored 55 first round KO's. Among the men he beat was Jose Torres who became world light heavyweight champion as a professional and the amateur who gave a young Ali/Clay trouble zibignew Pietrzyk...

Remember too that Papp fought in the days before head guards, computer scoring and massive gloves, the 312 contests he had were in the days where amateur boxing was not as far removed from professional boxing.

In my opinion no other amateur outshines Papp

Teofilio stevenson himself said that he would need 2 lifetimes to achieve all Papp achieved!

Teofilo, Felix Savon, Boris Lagutin, Sergei Kulej and Oleg Saitov, even though technically, specially in the cases of Saitov and Lagutin might were superior to Mr. Papp, they simly did not achieve the "undefeated" status of Papp in the big international competitions.

Most of all, Papp was known as a quiet, honest man who never bragged about himself but did his talking inside the ring. And in there, his fists told a story that will never be forgotten from the minds of the boxing fans.

Teofilio Stevenson in my book

Papp probably edges out Savon and Stevenson but the three are actually pretty interchangeable. The much forgotten Henry Mallin of Great Britain is also in the discussion and Donald Curry deserves a mention as he went 400/4 as an amateur and if not for politics would have most likely got Olympic gold.

Met Papp in 88, in Budapest. One lovely Man, Talked mostly through an interpreter must have been for an Hour, enjoyed. Dont know of anybody Better. Actually in the discussion I asked Him why there was no good Sportsmen, coming through Hungary now. when you think of the 50s, with Boxing and soccer He said the Ruskis [ Russians] had taken the Heart out of the Country.

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Originally Posted by Scrap

Met Papp in 88, in Budapest. One lovely Man, Talked mostly through an interpreter must have been for an Hour, enjoyed. Dont know of anybody Better. Actually in the discussion I asked Him why there was no good Sportsmen, coming through Hungary now. when you think of the 50s, with Boxing and soccer He said the Ruskis [ Russians] had taken the Heart out of the Country.

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Took a while but this guy looked good till he lost the Wbo title through a upset ko,he never was the same after that.

Hungarian
István Kovács, amateur 282 wins, 14 losses and one draw.

Pro 22. 1. 0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoDjZyIUkPU

I was thinking Savone... but this Papp guy sounds like the man.

Papp defeated Zbigniew Pietrzykowski numerous times, Zbigniew lost to clay in the olympic final on points!! Zbigniew claims papp was "greater than ali".....

Papp also defeated american ellsworth 'Spider' Webb who beat 3 world MW champs as a pro, Dick tiger, the great Joey Giardello (who stopped Rubin Carter and dick tiger!) and Terry Downes.

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Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHER

Papp defeated Zbigniew Pietrzykowski numerous times, Zbigniew lost to clay in the olympic final on points!! Zbigniew claims papp was "greater than ali".....

Papp also defeated american ellsworth 'Spider' Webb who beat 3 world MW champs as a pro, Dick tiger, the great Joey Giardello (who stopped Rubin Carter and dick tiger!) and Terry Downes.

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Yeah and that era was the real out to kill your opponent era, tough fighters trying to put poison on every shot.

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Originally Posted by Andre

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Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHER

Papp defeated Zbigniew Pietrzykowski numerous times, Zbigniew lost to clay in the olympic final on points!! Zbigniew claims papp was "greater than ali".....

Papp also defeated american ellsworth 'Spider' Webb who beat 3 world MW champs as a pro, Dick tiger, the great Joey Giardello (who stopped Rubin Carter and dick tiger!) and Terry Downes.

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Yeah and that era was the real out to kill your opponent era, tough fighters trying to put poison on every shot.

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Yap.

Donald Curry, Mark Breland, come to mind Donald Curry had a 400-4 Amateur record.

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Originally Posted by ICB

Donald Curry, Mark Breland, come to mind Donald Curry had a 400-4 Amateur record.

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In my humble opinion if you want to focus on BRILLIANT amateur careers you can't include in any top 10 mark Breland, especially before the likes of Savon, Lagutin, Stevenson and many others!

I am not saying this out of bigotry or anything, but i must say that the knowledge of most fansis extremely poor when it comes to Amateur boxing! Questions like this prove that.

Why Mark Breland is included in any top 10 of greatest amateurs ever? Simply because he is the best American amateur probably?

Anyways, there could be a case that Guillermo could be included as a top 10 amateur of all time, but the GREATEST THOUGH? HECK NO!

As for Breland, not to sound disrespectful, but i believe he is not even top 20 if you consider some bright careers and people who achieved WAY more than Breland ever did as an amateur! I mean let's be realistic, the man did not even stay amateur for a long time, how can he be compared with people who spent 20 years as amateurs and won 50 times more amateur titles and battles than him, that's unfair man, not to say irrational.

Anyways, check these names if you really care to find out about great amateurs :
Laszlo Papp
Felix Savon
Teofilo Stevenson
Boris Lagutin
Aleksei Tishchenko (still active)
Mario Kindelán
Oleg Saitov (The greatest amateur boxer of the 90's)
Jerzy Kulej
Vladimir Yengibaryan
Vasyl Lomachenko (still active)

I consider all these 10 boxers, DEFINITELY superior to Breland by any way you look at it, but someone could argue and say that i.e Guillermo has achieved more (for now) than Lomachenko, even though Guillermo was voted only one time as the best amateur boxer in the world by AIBA, while Lomachenko has been voted already 3 times at the age of what 22 or 23 and has also won the val barker, guillermo didn't!

P.S There is no way Donald Curry got 404 amateur bouts unless he started boxing when he was 5 or 6 and competed every single week of every year and participated in every tournament and national competition. There was no record keeping of bouts prior to 1987, at which time the passbooks were issued. Donald Curry, and anyone else prior to 1987, could say anything he wanted regarding the amount of amateur bouts hed had and there would be NO WAY to verify it. Curry 'THINKS' he had that number of bout's.

Unfortunately Curry never fought at the olympics either.

There are a lot of amateur records that are prolific, but don't include real national titles that at first glance seem unbelievable. Curry was definitely a great AMERICAN amateur no doubt...

Scotlands Dick McTaggart was greater than curry or breland IMO. Supposedly had a record of 634-24 and that included 3 Olympic games (Gold in '56, Bronze in '60). He only lost to eventual Gold medal winners in the two games he didn't win Gold. He was also awarded the val barker trophy too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Val_Barker_Trophy

Roy jones and zab judah were exceptional AMERICAN amateurs too.

Sugar Ray Robinson.

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Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHER

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Originally Posted by ICB

Donald Curry, Mark Breland, come to mind Donald Curry had a 400-4 Amateur record.

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In my humble opinion if you want to focus on BRILLIANT amateur careers you can't include in any top 10 mark Breland, especially before the likes of Savon, Lagutin, Stevenson and many others!

I am not saying this out of bigotry or anything, but i must say that the knowledge of most fansis extremely poor when it comes to Amateur boxing! Questions like this prove that.

Why Mark Breland is included in any top 10 of greatest amateurs ever? Simply because he is the best American amateur probably?

Anyways, there could be a case that Guillermo could be included as a top 10 amateur of all time, but the GREATEST THOUGH? HECK NO!

As for Breland, not to sound disrespectful, but i believe he is not even top 20 if you consider some bright careers and people who achieved WAY more than Breland ever did as an amateur! I mean let's be realistic, the man did not even stay amateur for a long time, how can he be compared with people who spent 20 years as amateurs and won 50 times more amateur titles and battles than him, that's unfair man, not to say irrational.

Anyways, check these names if you really care to find out about great amateurs :
Laszlo Papp
Felix Savon
Teofilo Stevenson
Boris Lagutin
Aleksei Tishchenko (still active)
Mario Kindelán
Oleg Saitov (The greatest amateur boxer of the 90's)
Jerzy Kulej
Vladimir Yengibaryan
Vasyl Lomachenko (still active)

I consider all these 10 boxers, DEFINITELY superior to Breland by any way you look at it, but someone could argue and say that i.e Guillermo has achieved more (for now) than Lomachenko, even though Guillermo was voted only one time as the best amateur boxer in the world by AIBA, while Lomachenko has been voted already 3 times at the age of what 22 or 23 and has also won the val barker, guillermo didn't!

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I wern't saying they were the greatest, they were just great Amateur's that come to mind. In all honesty i misread the topic i thought it said "Great Amateurs" not "Greatest". I don't know if Donald Curry had that many for 100 percent, its just something i've heard before and read on wikipedia.

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Originally Posted by Majesty

Sugar Ray Robinson.

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I think he was 85-2 as an amateur.

April 11, 1938 won the New York Metropolitan AAU Open Boxing Championship at bantamweight vs Ed Cappelli.

Golden Gloves Titles won in 1939:

New York Golden Gloves Tournament of Champions at featherweight vs. Armand Dascenza

Intercity Golden Gloves Tournament at featherweight vs. Tony Ancona

New York Daily News Golden Gloves Tournament at featherweight vs. Louis Valentine

Golden Gloves Titles won in 1940:

New York Golden Gloves Tournament of Champions at lightweight vs. Jimmy Butler

Intercity Golden Gloves Tournament at lightweight vs. Tony Ancona

New York Daily News Golden Gloves Tournament at lightweight vs. Andy Nonella

One loss was to a tough Irish kid named Billy Graham. Although they never fought as adults, they had several common opponents, including Carmen Basilio and Kid Gavilan, and Graham held his own against both of them.

According to records Curry did have over 400 fights and it’s not impossible. You can fight twice every 7 days in the amateurs and there are plenty of 11 and 12 year olds with over 100 fights already. The only reason Curry did not go for gold was the boycott. Maxell Taylor had about 300 fights before turning pro at 19. Rigondeaux also was close to 400 fights.

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

According to records Curry did have over 400 fights and it’s not impossible. You can fight twice every 7 days in the amateurs and there are plenty of 11 and 12 year olds with over 100 fights already. The only reason Curry did not go for gold was the boycott. Maxell Taylor had about 300 fights before turning pro at 19. Rigondeaux also was close to 400 fights.

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Difference is guillermo turned pro 3 years ago at 28. Curry turned pro at 19. I don't think curry had over 400 fights.

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Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHER

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

According to records Curry did have over 400 fights and it’s not impossible. You can fight twice every 7 days in the amateurs and there are plenty of 11 and 12 year olds with over 100 fights already. The only reason Curry did not go for gold was the boycott. Maxell Taylor had about 300 fights before turning pro at 19. Rigondeaux also was close to 400 fights.

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Difference is guillermo turned pro 3 years ago at 28. Curry turned pro at 19. I don't think curry had over 400 fights.

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The math could work and that record is listed everywhere so unless every site and magazine that publishes it are full of shite or he has in fact had 400 or more fights. Its certainly humanly possible.
I mean Greb fought 45 times in one year.

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

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Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHER

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

According to records Curry did have over 400 fights and it’s not impossible. You can fight twice every 7 days in the amateurs and there are plenty of 11 and 12 year olds with over 100 fights already. The only reason Curry did not go for gold was the boycott. Maxell Taylor had about 300 fights before turning pro at 19. Rigondeaux also was close to 400 fights.

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Difference is guillermo turned pro 3 years ago at 28. Curry turned pro at 19. I don't think curry had over 400 fights.

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The math could work and that record is listed everywhere so unless every site and magazine that publishes it are full of shite or he has in fact had 400 or more fights. Its certainly humanly possible.
I mean Greb fought 45 times in one year.

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U may be right.

LASZLO PAPP is a good choice a amateur.

Rigondeux or Stevenson