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I'm scratching my head a bit with this choice of opponent for Bute. Grachev (12-0) just starched unbeaten Ismayl "The Black Russian" Sillakh. He is a big puncher with a granite chin. Is he too tough of a foe for Bute to face in a comeback fight after Bute suffered his first defeat, a dehabilitating knockout loss at that, and especially when a big money Froch rematch looms in the future?
Lucian Bute will face Denis Grachev before Carl Froch rematch - ESPN
I think this is exactly the type of opponent he should face, granite chin and big puncher two qualities that effed him against froch. I think bute is really tryin to prepare himself for froch and give himself a chance at victory by facing this guy as opposed to facing someone he knows he could beat but then be in the deep end again against froch. Good choice I sayQuote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
You know, I do agree there with what Armin says, with Bute needing to learn how to deal with the pressure more, as he really can't fight going backwards at all I dont think. But, that being said, they could have chose a slightly softer touch after the pasting he took against Froch.
I watched the Grachev vs Sylakh fight, and Grachev is gonna take some stopping I'd say. Be tempted to throw it out there and say Grachev stops Bute. He was relentless against Sylakh. Id like to think Butes team know what they are doin but who knows.....
Most important thing for us boxing fans is that it should be a VERY competitive fight IMO.
Froch is far more active and accurate than this guy and times u well
Great fight and you said exactly what I wanted to say! Big respect to Bute for taking this fight, it's going to be a cracker. I was impressed with Grachev when he beat Sylakh, if Bute gets through this one it will set him up nicely for the Froch rematch.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMacMagician
He did well against pressure fighters before - think Bika and Andrade. Froch clearly is a different animal. However, I agree that this fight does help prepare Bute. It will be good for his confidence too, if he wins, but it's a tough fight to take after suffering a hard knock out by Froch.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMacMagician
I think people forget just how good frochs reflexes areQuote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratHe did well against pressure fighters before - think Bika and Andrade. Froch clearly is a different animal. However, I agree that this fight does help prepare Bute. It will be good for his confidence too, if he wins, but it's a tough fight to take after suffering a hard knock out by Froch.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMacMagician
I think someone who's 12-0-1 with an MD win recently and only 8 KO;s seems like a piss poor interim fight in my mind! admittedly I have not seen him fight but it seems like someone bite could outbox with his left hand tied behind his back!
Who could he fight though that would prepare him for froch he can clearly beat the bikas and andrades of the world with ease...so I think this is a good choice a hard hitter with a good chin. Fighting ward or dirrel or someone would prepare him for froch even less cause completely diffrent style. This dude isn't much like froch at all either but a decent choice I thinkQuote:
Originally Posted by oakleyno1
And I should clarify in no way would ward be a tuneup to bute I just mean a fight between him and war would tell us nothing how he would do against froch again
Honestley Grachev is good, hes not been in the game for long but look what he has done before boxing. Denis Grachev - Boxrec Boxing EncyclopaediaQuote:
Originally Posted by oakleyno1
He isn't a walkover in the slightest and he proved that when he knocked out Sylakh. Ive been looking forward to seeing him fight again and I am happy hes fighting Bute. He can punch for sure, Sylakh was outboxing him but he has the tools to put somebody to sleep. I think this is a real test for Bute as he is chinny, so who knows this could be Grachevs chance to prove himself.
another thing that springs to mind this fight is at 175, but the Froch rematch will be at 168, how come Bute is moving up?
I think it's just the kind of fight to take on. Bute losing to Froch in that fashion doesn't suddenly make him crap, which Grachev basically is imo. He looked like a hopeless plodder until Silakh ran out of gas completely, and lets not forget that was the first test for both fighters there as well. Grachev is slow and predictable, and didn't seem to have much variety at all to me. If Bute can't beat him easily then he is royally screwed at the top level anyways, there is no point in taking on a softer touch if he's serious about his career. Carl may not be in the game more than a few more fights, so if Bute really wants the rematch he absolutely needs to get some good rounds in the meantime. All Gorchev presents here is a durable guy who can punch if given an easy target.
I believe the fight will be at a catchweight of 170.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tam Seddon
He should have an easier warm up to get his confidence back not risk getting smashed again. Bute could get away with it in Canada.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
This IS an easy fight to get his confidence back, while giving him some rounds at best. I just don't get the perceived threat in Grachev. "He beat Sillakh who was supposed to be good, must be a dangerous guy..." Did people actually watch that? He is a plodder and only came back to win because Sillakh didn't try and close to show when he probably could've and then completely gassed out by the mid rounds. If Bute plans to rematch Froch with possibly only this one fight as a tune up then it is pointless to take on a complete stiff, it's a good choice of opponent really. Bute is still talented and a good puncher, he should get a stoppage early on here.
@p4pking I guess after thinking about it more as a result of reading your posts, I can agree that Grachev may be a good choice of opponent for Bute to get his confidence back, if he wins, of course. Grachev has good stamina, ability to recover, and a big punch. Bute needs to be able to feel comfortable that he can handle a fighter with those attributes when he faces Froch next. So, in that respect, I see your point.Quote:
Originally Posted by p4pkingQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
This IS an easy fight to get his confidence back, while giving him some rounds at best. I just don't get the perceived threat in Grachev. "He beat Sillakh who was supposed to be good, must be a dangerous guy..." Did people actually watch that? He is a plodder and only came back to win because Sillakh didn't try and close to show when he probably could've and then completely gassed out by the mid rounds. If Bute plans to rematch Froch with possibly only this one fight as a tune up then it is pointless to take on a complete stiff, it's a good choice of opponent really. Bute is still talented and a good puncher, he should get a stoppage early on here.
I disagree with you that Grachev is a plodder with no talent. Is he a slick fighter with fancy footwork? In no way, shape, or form. On the other hand, is he talentless? Not at all. Your comments reminded me of when some people downplayed Margarito's win over Cotto at the time (now I personally believe Margarito used cement in that fight, but that's a different topic altogether) because Cotto took the first 6 rounds or so, and Margarito only eventually wore Cotto down to score the win, or Froch's win over Taylor. A win's a win. Too often people forget it. Wins come in different forms, but winning by relentless pursuit in the later rounds is no worse than a slick boxer winning on points. In a way, the dogged determination from a less talented fighter is perhaps more admirable. Having a chin, heavy hands, and good stamina can take a boxer pretty damn far. In addition, beating Sillakh isn't something to take lightly. I would argue having a win over Sillakh is p4p better than any win on Broner's CV, and Broner's a star.
I too saw the fight against Sillakh, and Sillakh hit Grachev with everything but the kitchen sink. If I recall, Grachev even went down once from a pretty big shot, recovered, and continued to march forward, pursuing until he eventually knocked Sillakh out. Should Taylor have finished Froch off in the third round of their fight? In hindsight, sure, but a fight is a fight, and Froch won. Same goes here. Make no mistake about it, it was clear as daylight that Sillakh possessed more talent than Grachev. However, we can also agree that it is clear now that Grachev either possess more determination or more stamina than Sillakh, at least that night he did. It just goes to show that there are many variables in boxing, raw talent is only one of them. Also, take note that Sillakh didn't jump back in a rematch with Grachev. He needed to "rebuild."
Maybe I'm just bitter because I was hyping Sillakh as the next big thing at light heavyweight. Anyway, sorry in advance for going off on a tangent. :confused:
Not at all, and I see what you're saying. I just don't think it compares to Margarito against Cotto whatsoever. In the early rounds Cotto took there, he was still taking punishment and being pressed out of his comfort zone quite often. When the tides did turn, we saw several rounds where Margarito was seriously doing damage and gaining momentum.
Grachev did very little against Sillakh until he had a guy who was dead tired simply from hitting him, and even then he wasn't having any success until he landed the one bomb. Sillakh is talented no doubt, but that fight tells me he doesn't have the chin or stamina to pull off the kind of style he fights with, and he doesn't hit nearly as hard as Bute either.
I'm not even saying Grachev is a bum or has no hope in this, but that if Bute is serious about rematching Froch he needs a live opponent, as you said. Lucian is either much better than he showed in Nottingham or he isn't, either way he needs to find out quickly as Froch has other options and won't be around much longer.
Really good dialogue between yourself and Rant. It’s hard for me as a die-hard Bute fan because a part of me wished he went for the rematch straight away. Like Leonard did with Duran or Benn and Eubank with Collins. Another part realizes how the times have changed and that fighters today need the “confidence builder” and especially after a ko.Quote:
Originally Posted by p4pking
168 is stretched pretty thin with most being busy so slim pickings hence the weight change. I also think we are going to see an all Quebec showdown in the next 2 years between Pascal and Bute so they are probably looking at that with the weight.
What bothers me about this fight is that it’s really not strategically valid. Grachev as tough as he is could not box his way out of a hallway closet and shares no attributes with Froch outside of a punch. Are you really going into this fight just to see if your chin will hold out if nailed? You were knocked out in the amateurs Lucian.
I’ve been watching the Romanian connection since Dorin and that was not Bute in England. He left his entire tool kit in the dressing room and was taken completely out of the fight before the ring walk. What he needs more then a heavy bag to beat up is an elite sports psychologist. Carl knows this and has already won the opening salvo. He on the other hand is a modern day Denny Moyer with the ability to shut out a Quebec crowd.
Froch already has him by the balls and a rematch is close to year away.
Who knows could be just a money grab by Interbox with Lucas walking away and most likely suing.