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Just rewatched the classic Tyson/Holyfield 1 fight. Couldn't help but wonder why they never put a Bowe/Tyson fight together at that time? Holyfield had been decisively KO'd by Bowe only 2 fights before his megafight with Tyson.
Did Bowe just not have enough public interest? Did Tyson's camp see Holyfield as an easier fight, with Evander having been stopped by Bowe only 2 fights previous?
I wasn't following boxing back then, anyone remember the circumstances as to why Holyfield got the shot?
I remember watching Mills Lane interwiew saying he felt Bowe was a notch better than Tyson....but i would have loved to see them fight then.
Bowe's best came and went while Mike was locked up. I dont think bowe was on the radar when Tyson went to prison. By the time he got out Bowe was taking a pounding from Andrew Golota.
The original plan was that Bowe would fight Lewis in early '96, then Tyson in late '96 or early '97.
However, Main Events were very keen on pushing Andrew Golota and successfully lobbied HBO to 'jump the gun' on that fight to arrange Bowe vs Golota instead.
The rest is history...
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHER
Ahh, I see!
What a shame. Bowe vs Tyson would have been pretty exciting. I love Bowe but I think at that point in his career he was getting hit way too much. You could see the deterioration of his skill even in the Herbie Hide fight.
day be best frıends yo from da hood in crown heightsQuote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Broooooklynnnn!!!
Holyfield was considered an easier mark 16 to 1 to be exact over Bowe and a long over due fight at that. With multiple postponements before Tyson went to prison. And it might have eventually happened but Golota took what was left of Bowe and smashed his testes into the ground.
Tyson was slower, less conditioned and less polished in defense by 1991. He was still an awesome fighter, like Ali after his layoff, Tyson was still a stride ahead of the rest but he wasn't unbeatable, prior to this Douglas had knocked him silly and Bruno was on the verge of stopping him.
Bowe in 1992 was one of the greatest heavyweights I've ever seen, the Riddick Bowe who fought Holyfield for the first time would have given ANY heavyweight in history the toughest fight of their career and would have been probably 80-90% of them. Prior to this fight and after this fight he was never the same, never as dedicated inside or outside the ropes. Bowe in 1992 was a force to be reckoned with.
The first thing to realize about this fight is that if Tyson turned up to the ring in the same condition he was in against Douglas he gets knocked out in under 4 rounds. Say for example Tyson is in the same condition against Bowe he was against Razor Ruddock both times, he's still strong and quick, his defense, accuracy and style isn't at it's peak anymore but it's still good. Regardless I think Bowe takes this one, I think Bowe in '92 beats any era of Tyson. He uses his size and sledgehammer jab to keep Tyson at bay, a less condition Tyson burns himself out early and probably hurts Bowe once or twice, but after he tires the big man piles it on and does to Mike the same thing Lennox did only quicker seeing as Bowe was more aggressive and stronger.
KO7 Riddick Bowe
Completely agree with your middle paragraph, but not much of the rest. Bruno almost stopping Tyson :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by UmThala
Cause King liked trinkets and and loved his meal ticket in Mike even more. Tyson himself said he wasn't ready in under a year outta prison and Neuman was dropping Mikes name but as long as they were in a major network contract not named SET it wasn't happening. King didn't want that.
Tyson came out bent on doing what he did the first time around...unify the belts from a lot of trinket warmer champs only this time he and promotion DID have legit top marketable threats in a Bowe or Lewis, and as it turned out a "shot" Holyfield :-X
It's a great question and honestly I think it's a pick 'em fight because Bowe never fought a pure power puncher like Tyson and Bowe had all he requirements to toy with Tyson so it's 50/50. Could Bowe handle Tyson's power and speed? Could Mike work around Bowe's height, reach, and athletic ability?
Not many hypothetical fights leave me without picking a surefire winner, but this one comes close. I would only go with Tyson because I feel even though he wasn't "in his prime" :rolleyes: he beat better competition more often in the mid 90's....Donovan Ruddock IMO could have beaten Bowe.
Herbie Hide nailed him with someone huge shots and Herbie could definitely punch, but yeah he was more of a blown up cruiserweight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K39AbwNl3QUQuote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
That's Bowe vs a pucher....never fought another one again
I'm pretty big on Bowe but its disappointing he ducked Lewis like that.
Also Holyfield & Golota floored Bowe so one would assume that Tyson's power would greatly trouble him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Tyson was a shell of a fighter by the time he came out of prison. He was strategically managed to make the maximum amount of money but for minimum amount of risk with the ideal of holding a belt. WBC bent over to accommodate him and effectively screwed Lewis over. Tyson ran over to another trinket by beating Seldon to avoid Lewis as he was not ready (and as it happens never became ready).
Bowe was never allowed to fight for the WBC for throwing it in the bin. Both were washed away by fighters they were expected to beat but did not.
If they did fight after Tyson came out of prison I think Bowe would win just too big and strong. Prime Tyson would land a left hook and knock down and eventually stop prime Bowe (which fought Holyfield)
I just don't see it man....Mike Tyson did avoid some guys he could have lot to, but he could still have challenged Bowe and in my opinion beaten him. Riddick Bowe is so overhyped it's ridiculous Shannon Briggs should get that kind of hype...he was more dangerous than Riddick.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Shannon did not have the natural boxing talent of Bowe, but that Tyson was hollow that came out of prison. Bowe put on a good run of beating undefeated fighters after his loss to Holyfield so he had more to offer and beat Mike. However if Tyson landed the left hook that Holyfield did in their 3rd fight, Bowe would struggle to get up.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongI just don't see it man....Mike Tyson did avoid some guys he could have lot to, but he could still have challenged Bowe and in my opinion beaten him. Riddick Bowe is so overhyped it's ridiculous Shannon Briggs should get that kind of hype...he was more dangerous than Riddick.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Finally showing some love for Shannon Briggs I see;DQuote:
Originally Posted by El KabongI just don't see it man....Mike Tyson did avoid some guys he could have lot to, but he could still have challenged Bowe and in my opinion beaten him. Riddick Bowe is so overhyped it's ridiculous Shannon Briggs should get that kind of hype...he was more dangerous than Riddick.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
I think Briggs had more talent than Bowe just not as smart of a fighter or mentally as tough.
That said both guys I feel would be very intimidated by Mike Tyson and never really wanted to fight him.
Yes, Master is right Tyson was diminished when he came out of prison, but he wasn't shot.
And his aura remained, causing many top heavyweights to still fear him.
Michael Moorer himself said that leading into Tyson vs. Holyfield, he felt that Evander didn't have a chance because no one was going to beat Tyson at that point.
Not sure I agree about Briggs having more talent than Bowe, but otherwise great points. It's funny that in the video Kabong posted of Lewis vs Bowe, even then the commentators were quick to allude to Bowe's lack of concentration etc(I haven't a clue about his amatuer career aside from that fight).Quote:
Originally Posted by HulkFinally showing some love for Shannon Briggs I see;DQuote:
Originally Posted by El KabongI just don't see it man....Mike Tyson did avoid some guys he could have lot to, but he could still have challenged Bowe and in my opinion beaten him. Riddick Bowe is so overhyped it's ridiculous Shannon Briggs should get that kind of hype...he was more dangerous than Riddick.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
I think Briggs had more talent than Bowe just not as smart of a fighter or mentally as tough.
That said both guys I feel would be very intimidated by Mike Tyson and never really wanted to fight him.
Yes, Master is right Tyson was diminished when he came out of prison, but he wasn't shot.
And his aura remained, causing many top heavyweights to still fear him.
Michael Moorer himself said that leading into Tyson vs. Holyfield, he felt that Evander didn't have a chance because no one was going to beat Tyson at that point.
My take is that either Briggs or Bowe on their night COULD have beaten Tyson after his stint in prison, but as you say Mike was still frightening and could've just as easily thrown them off of their game. Basically all three had a bit of a screw loose and could really punch, so most anything could've happened. If I had to stick my neck out, I'd maybe side with Tyson just on account of being able to take more. He definetly wasn't about to be Ko'ed by either man, wheras if he landed on Bowe or Briggs it may well have been curtains. Shame there was never a matchup between the 3, but there was a very small window where the men were operating at their best anyways.
Shannon Briggs got outboxed/outworked by a 48 year old George Foreman... I don't think he had the same skills as Bowe.
He had strength in the one area that Bowe couldn't handle.....punching power. Shannon Briggs knocked down Lennox Lewis, it wasn't scored as such but the ropes held Lennox up so it WAS a knockdown.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Why couldn't Bowe handle punching power? He got cracked and rocked plenty of times and came back. He fought a lot of hard hitters.
Riddick Bowe never fought a heavyweight power puncher....FACT. Getting dropped by Holyfield & Golota doesn't do much to add to this idea that Riddick was some granite chinned warrior. There were heaps of power punchers in the 1990's and Bowe fought 0 of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Bert Cooper could punch, so could Pinklon. JLG was no world beater but he could crack. Herbie Hide had dynamite in his hands. He was a natural cruiserweight, sure, but so is David Haye ;D
Bowe has been cracked enough by good punchers to where I think it's a little unfair to cast doubts about his chin.
As far as single home run hitters Bowe wasn't facing a Foreman or Tyson but again I think you seriously under sell Holyfield as a hurtful combo puncher. He put some of the hardest chins and sacks on jelly legs more than once and they were more tried and true above any single bomb an off balance Shannon Briggs could bring. And yes Bowes a slob who blew his potential.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongRiddick Bowe never fought a heavyweight power puncher....FACT. Getting dropped by Holyfield & Golota doesn't do much to add to this idea that Riddick was some granite chinned warrior. There were heaps of power punchers in the 1990's and Bowe fought 0 of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Holyfield was good at applying ungodly amounts of pressure as well as making for ugly fights....his power was good enough, but he wasn't a "Power Puncher" he only has 29 KO's out of 44 wins....hardly someone you can call a power puncher.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
Hide 49 with 43 KOs (same as Marciano), and he had the cruiserweight speed to go with it.
JLG 31 with 27 KOs
Bert Cooper 38 with 31
Not guys on the level of a Tyson by any stretch, but if we're talking pure power, these guys could bang and all ended up flat on the canvas.
He def was not a power puncher in the truest sense but ko numbers can be overstated and power without skill/substance doesn't amount to much. I think at the end of the day who'd ya hurt and when did ya hurt them speaks more to power than a blanket percentage.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongHolyfield was good at applying ungodly amounts of pressure as well as making for ugly fights....his power was good enough, but he wasn't a "Power Puncher" he only has 29 KO's out of 44 wins....hardly someone you can call a power puncher.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
I get that, but I just have a feeling based on how Bowe did vs Lennox Lewis that he would have more trouble with the big bangers which would include Shannon Briggs who most certainly had 1 punch power.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliHe def was not a power puncher in the truest sense but ko numbers can be overstated and power without skill/substance doesn't amount to much. I think at the end of the day who'd ya hurt and when did ya hurt them speaks more to power than a blanket percentage.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongHolyfield was good at applying ungodly amounts of pressure as well as making for ugly fights....his power was good enough, but he wasn't a "Power Puncher" he only has 29 KO's out of 44 wins....hardly someone you can call a power puncher.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
Bowe's mental issues were more pronounced outside of the ring. I don't remember seeing him really crumble mentally/emotionally in the ring the way Tyson did but he obviously didn't have the discipline outside of the ring. The guy had all of the boxing skill and physical attributes needed but just couldn't put down the cupcakes and deteriorated faster than any fighter I've ever seen except maybe Meldrick Taylor. I think in a battle of wills between these two Riddick could weather the Tyson storm and win on a late round KO after pumping the jab and tieing up Mike.
Herbie Hide was a cruiserweight, that's the issue!Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
JLG had an inflated record. He ended up getting KO'd by the likes of Michael Grant, Ross Purrity, Tim Witherspoon, & Cliff Couser just to mention a few.
Bert Cooper was a heavy hitter at CRUISERWEIGHT, he was ok at heavyweight but nothing special I mean Larry Donald stopped him.
We never saw Bowe take on the best contenders of his era, now I don't mean just Tyson & Lewis, I mean guys like Ray Mercer, Tommy Morrison, Donovan Ruddock, Shannon Briggs, George Foreman, Michael Moorer, etc. Other than the wins over Holyfield Bowe never impressed me.
Either way Briggs is crap compared to Bowe and the best Bowe would beat the best Briggs. Bowe had a decent chin which gradually weakened the older (and fatter) he got.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Briggs is a flake, but flakey as he may be he would have given Bowe hell.....FACT. Hell I think Michael Grant could have made life troublesome for Riddick. I am CERTAIN Ruddock would have beaten him, would have doe far better vs Bowe than vs Lewis and Tyson.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Briggs may have give Bowe hell, just as he did with Lewis (for a bit) but he would have lost.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongBriggs is a flake, but flakey as he may be he would have given Bowe hell.....FACT. Hell I think Michael Grant could have made life troublesome for Riddick. I am CERTAIN Ruddock would have beaten him, would have doe far better vs Bowe than vs Lewis and Tyson.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
That's the amateurs though. Augie Sanchez beat Mayweather in the amateurs. Tillman beat Tyson twice in the amateurs.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
You gotta give him his due as a pro!
Lennox Lewis KNOCKED OUT Riddick Bowe in the amateurs, this wasn't some sort of sissy ass slap fighting these guys went toe to toe and Riddick got his shit handed to him....FACTQuote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerThat's the amateurs though. Augie Sanchez beat Mayweather in the amateurs. Tillman beat Tyson twice in the amateurs.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
You gotta give him his due as a pro!
TKO, Bowe took a monster right hand and didn't go down. Would be an early stoppage by pro standards.
....the ref stepped in and saved Riddick, as apro Lennox keeps punching and stops him in the very same round.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
So he did not knock out Bowe. Fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong....the ref stepped in and saved Riddick, as apro Lennox keeps punching and stops him in the very same round.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Hey, that's great if that's your opinion. You could be right, I'm not doubting Lewis beats Bowe because I believe he was indeed the superior fighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
But you're judging Bowe's ability and potential by one bad performance he had against Lennox Lewis as a skinny 20 year old.
Larry Holmes got dropped and whipped by Duane Bobick in the amateurs, I could easily say "well if he couldn't handle Duane Bobick's power, a guy like Ernie Shavers would blow him out of the water."