Does Chavez Jr. really deserve a rematch?

Martinez kicks Junior's ass for 11 1/2 rounds, but gets knocked down and badly hurt in the final minute of the fight. I believe Junior is getting way to much credit for the 12th round KD in some of the media reports. I read in one article that: "Martinez wins the fight but Chavez Jr. wins the night", WTF is that supposed to mean?

If this was anybody but Baby Chavez would anyone be thinking that the KD was something other then a fluke? Junior finally steps up in class and faces a real/volatile opponent in Martinez for the first time, with a huge size and weight advantage, but gets schooled and badly beaten, fuck the KD and lets keep things in perspective.

Let Junior work his way back in contention and show that he's not an overrated/overhyped. talentless, clown still living off of his daddy's name. If I were Sergio, i'd take my sweet time giving Junior a rematch, (if ever) and perhaps unify the middleweight titles, what's that Australian chap's name who just defeated Sturm? Sounds like a good fight to me. ;)

I was reading about how Martinez has a broken left hand and needs surgery on his right knee. I'm not sure if Martinez can box anymore. He IS 37 years old and what most people tend to forget these days, due to the fact that a few champs are pushing 35+, is that if you're over 33-34 you really are considered over the hill and in this sport where you need every little advantage to win, being over the hill is just damn right deadly to your health.

Also I don't think Chavez is even worth Martinez's contempt. He is nothing like his father, at least that man had a decent defense and threw a good right hand.

On what basis?

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Originally Posted by Mars_ax

Martinez kicks Junior's ass for 11 1/2 rounds, but gets knocked down and badly hurt in the final minute of the fight. I believe Junior is getting way to much credit for the 12th round KD in some of the media reports. I read in one article that: "Martinez wins the fight but Chavez Jr. wins the night", WTF is that supposed to mean?
P
If this was anybody but Baby Chavez would anyone be thinking that the KD was something other then a fluke? Junior finally steps up in class and faces a real/volatile opponent in Martinez for the first time, with a huge size and weight advantage, but gets schooled and badly beaten, fuck the KD and lets keep things in perspective.

Let Junior work his way back in contention and show that he's not an overrated/overhyped. talentless, clown still living off of his daddy's name. If I were Sergio, i'd take my sweet time giving Junior a rematch, (if ever) and perhaps unify the middleweight titles, what's that Australian chap's name who just defeated Sturm? Sounds like a good fight to me. ;)

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Martinez has some injuries to to deal with first. It's not about if Chavez deserves a rematch, it's about where the biggest payday is. No one can say what Martinez will do, but boxing is about the money, especially at this level. If Martinez isn't looking at a rematch with Chavez, I'd be real surprised. His injuries might force him to take on another opponent before Chavez, but you can be sure he'll be thinking about Chavez.

Chavez doesn't deserve shit, Martinez was a bit winded by the 12th got dropped after a solid shot and then stood up, clinched, recovered and traded with Jr till the final bell, Chavez won the round but Martinez put the staple that he was the better fighter even after the KD, if the rematch would happen I would only be ok with it because it would another big payday for Sergio, and well if anyone truly deserves the big fights and recognition it's him, fuck Floyd and Manny, Martinez is the epitome of a true champion, my #1 and #2 are Ward and Martinez

Hell no he don't deswerve a rematch, one sided beating for eleven rounds and then happens to kd the guy cause martinez decided to not just completely run in the final round. Not intrested in a rematch at all...altho not sure who else could make martinez that kinda money, and well not sure chavez will be makin 160 much longer anyways

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Originally Posted by beenKOed

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Originally Posted by Mars_ax

Martinez kicks Junior's ass for 11 1/2 rounds, but gets knocked down and badly hurt in the final minute of the fight. I believe Junior is getting way to much credit for the 12th round KD in some of the media reports. I read in one article that: "Martinez wins the fight but Chavez Jr. wins the night", WTF is that supposed to mean?
P
If this was anybody but Baby Chavez would anyone be thinking that the KD was something other then a fluke? Junior finally steps up in class and faces a real/volatile opponent in Martinez for the first time, with a huge size and weight advantage, but gets schooled and badly beaten, fuck the KD and lets keep things in perspective.

Let Junior work his way back in contention and show that he's not an overrated/overhyped. talentless, clown still living off of his daddy's name. If I were Sergio, i'd take my sweet time giving Junior a rematch, (if ever) and perhaps unify the middleweight titles, what's that Australian chap's name who just defeated Sturm? Sounds like a good fight to me. ;)

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Martinez has some injuries to to deal with first. It's not about if Chavez deserves a rematch, it's about where the biggest payday is. No one can say what Martinez will do, but boxing is about the money, especially at this level. If Martinez isn't looking at a rematch with Chavez, I'd be real surprised. His injuries might force him to take on another opponent before Chavez, but you can be sure he'll be thinking about Chavez.

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You mean thinking about the 'money' he could make in a rematch. :) Because Sergio has already had his moment of vengeance and/or showed who the better fighter was. I think it would be a good idea for both pugs to take another opponent first. I'd love to see Junior fight Kelly Pavlik.

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

On what basis?

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lol, i'm asking you, you fukin' Eskimo. j/k ;)

No of course not. Yeh yeh I understand money talks but frankly I think thats selling Martinez short. He did his bid with Chavez and basically had his way throughout, even with the knockdown where he stood ground and gave Chavez chances to explode on him. If I was Martinez I'd say "you know what kid...earn your way back, you have the hype, youth, the name, the backing and the damn network fan hood who just watched me turn you over my knee and spank your ass...with respect I'm going out to demand better". Martinez doesn't have long left in the game I'd imagine and he sure as hell doesn't 'need' a legacy or sequel with Chavez who obviously was coddled to get where he was. Chavez needs to take from this, shit, learn yourself after you've been stripped to the frame in public and LISTEN to advisor's, trainers and even pops who have all been there and done that. I think the last thing HE needs is to get back in with a superior guy with that level of aloofness he obviously had leading up. Chavez has tools but he needs to go back a few notches and grow up if he even hopes to come close to lasting to 37 yrs old at the top of his game.

I'd like to believe that after his performance against Junior, Sergio's market value will skyrocket, if not something is seriously wrong with boxing promotions, fer christ sakes, Martinez is probably the most colorful, entertaining Pug in boxing right now.

Does he deserve ? No.

Will most people only remember the last round and believe that Chavez was in or could have obtained the victory? Yes.



Is that good for both fighter moneywise? Yes.

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

Chavez doesn't deserve shit, Martinez was a bit winded by the 12th got dropped after a solid shot and then stood up, clinched, recovered and traded with Jr till the final bell, Chavez won the round but Martinez put the staple that he was the better fighter even after the KD, if the rematch would happen I would only be ok with it because it would another big payday for Sergio, and well if anyone truly deserves the big fights and recognition it's him, fuck Floyd and Manny, Martinez is the epitome of a true champion, my #1 and #2 are Ward and Martinez

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Yup, and Sergio does most of it without a huge team, entourage or support system, which is another thing I respect about him, he's his own man. He came to a foreign land, paid his dues, took names and kicked asses, there not much to dislike about the hombre.

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Originally Posted by Mars_ax

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

Chavez doesn't deserve shit, Martinez was a bit winded by the 12th got dropped after a solid shot and then stood up, clinched, recovered and traded with Jr till the final bell, Chavez won the round but Martinez put the staple that he was the better fighter even after the KD, if the rematch would happen I would only be ok with it because it would another big payday for Sergio, and well if anyone truly deserves the big fights and recognition it's him, fuck Floyd and Manny, Martinez is the epitome of a true champion, my #1 and #2 are Ward and Martinez

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Yup, and Sergio does most of it without a huge team, entourage or support system, which is another thing I respect about him, he's his own man. He came to a foreign land, paid his dues, took names and kicked asses, there not much to dislike about the hombre.

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From everything I know sergio does everything right and has done everything right and if the world was just n fair he'd be a huge star but alas that's not the case.

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Originally Posted by Nameless

Does he deserve ? No.

Will most people only remember the last round and believe that Chavez was in or could have obtained the victory? Yes.



Is that good for both fighter moneywise? Yes.

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About the only good thing that could come out of a rematch would be Sergio making a big payday. Junior didn't lose 11 rounds by accident, he got schooled, I see no reason to believe Part II would be much different, minus the 12th round KD. But yeah, money controls boxing, (prize fighting) so barring something unforeseen, there will be a rematch at some point.

Unless Martinez is lined up to fight Mayweather, then it doesn't matter what anyone thinks or if Chavez deserves a rematch. Martinez is going to make whatever fight will make him the most money. Unless someone can produce some other match-up for Martinez that will yield him the kind of money a rematch with Chavez will make, that is exactly what will happen. All this talk about Martinez nursing will only help him focus his attention on retirement money.

In a word.....

FUCK no.

the rematch is gonna be great! can't wait to hear the excuses next time around!

Chavez must be kicking himself. He had a massive size advantage but it caused him to be too slow. If he had let his hands go he could have had more success but he was too scared that once he lets his hands go he would be taking 4 shots for each one of his.

The better man won.

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Originally Posted by armyash

Chavez must be kicking himself. He had a massive size advantage but it caused him to be too slow. If he had let his hands go he could have had more success but he was too scared that once he lets his hands go he would be taking 4 shots for each one of his.

The better man won.

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Except for perhaps a dozen times or so, Sergio stayed out of the corners and off the ropes, and when Junior did corner Martinez his success was usually minimal, with Sergio giving as good or better then he took.
Fortunately for Junior he was able to score the KD in the last round, because otherwise this fight would have been 12-0 and viewed as a one-sided beatdown, by a consummate pro over a rank amateur. The KD probably salvaged Junior's career and reputation, and made it seem a little less humiliating, but make no mistake, Sergio punked this kid badly.

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Originally Posted by armyash

Chavez must be kicking himself. He had a massive size advantage but it caused him to be too slow. If he had let his hands go he could have had more success but he was too scared that once he lets his hands go he would be taking 4 shots for each one of his.

The better man won.

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There was another reason he wasn't letting his hands go. It was that just before he was going to throw a punch Martinez was punching him in the head and to the body and then getting the fuck out of the way. Martinez has much faster hands and feet and a longer reach and it doesn't matter if Junior had come into the ring at 158 he still would have been slower than Martinez.


Also, too. Does anybody think if Martinez is going to miss serious time with the knee injury that Sulaiman will strip his belt and give it back to Junior?

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Originally Posted by Mars_ax

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Originally Posted by armyash

Chavez must be kicking himself. He had a massive size advantage but it caused him to be too slow. If he had let his hands go he could have had more success but he was too scared that once he lets his hands go he would be taking 4 shots for each one of his.

The better man won.

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Except for perhaps a dozen times or so, Sergio stayed out of the corners and off the ropes, and when Junior did corner Martinez his success was usually minimal, with Sergio giving as good or better then he took.
Fortunately for Junior he was able to score the KD in the last round, because otherwise this fight would have been 12-0 and viewed as a one-sided beatdown, by a consummate pro over a rank amateur. The KD probably salvaged Junior's career and reputation, and made it seem a little less humiliating, but make no mistake, Sergio punked this kid badly.

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This is correct. A rematch is unnecessary. I prefer Martinez versus Canelo or Cotto.

I agree with what has been said there can be no argument for Chavez having much success apart from the final round. Even when he had Martinez on the ropes he couldn't take advantage. Martinez was too fast, he showed a good chin and was just too good. Chavez looked inexperienced following Martinez around the ring with his hands up.

I like the point that the 12th round probably saved Chavez career.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

In a word.....

FUCK no.

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After some careful thought, I'd like to elaborate on my answer......


Oh hell..... FUCK no!

No... seriously. Rematch for what? Martinez pitched the equivalent of a "perfect game" at the clueless Chavez Jr...... broken hand and all..... and only got careless in the final round. And instead of getting on his bicycle, what does he do? Continues trading with Chavez and getting in his own shots. Had Chavez not had that brief moment in the sun, it would've been one of the most lopsided beating in history.

Chavez needs to move up to cruiserweight already and quit making a mockery of traditional weigh-ins. Now that the precious "0" is history, maybe they (Chavez camp, including Sulaiman) can relax and continue fighting credible opposition.

No

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

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Originally Posted by armyash

Chavez must be kicking himself. He had a massive size advantage but it caused him to be too slow. If he had let his hands go he could have had more success but he was too scared that once he lets his hands go he would be taking 4 shots for each one of his.

The better man won.

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There was another reason he wasn't letting his hands go. It was that just before he was going to throw a punch Martinez was punching him in the head and to the body and then getting the fuck out of the way. Martinez has much faster hands and feet and a longer reach and it doesn't matter if Junior had come into the ring at 158 he still would have been slower than Martinez.


Also, too. Does anybody think if Martinez is going to miss serious time with the knee injury that Sulaiman will strip his belt and give it back to Junior?

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1-Sulaiman is chavez jr's godfather
2-sulaiman still believes that chavez sr was robbed when pernell whitaker "got" a draw against chavez sr (if you haven't seen the fight, then watch it on youtube)

those 2 things tell you all you need to know about sulaiman.

will he strip sergio-if he can find a way, he will.

as for stripping of the belt? who cares.

as fans we need to stop giving creedence to the abc organizations. Their belts mean nothing.

does anyone believe that chavez jr/zbik- ever deserved to be fighting to be any kind of champion???

have you looked at the top 10 lists for the organizations?? most of the lists have guys that no unbaised group would put in the top 30.

If Chavez gets an immediate rematch, then boxing is in worse shape than I thought.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

If Chavez gets an immediate rematch, then boxing is in worse shape than I thought.

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If Chavez was made mandatory or something equally as stupid immediately then I agree. If Martinez wanted to make a rematch for the cash then I won't begrudge that for him at 37.

Would rather see him face someone else. Alvarez if possible.

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Originally Posted by armyash

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

If Chavez gets an immediate rematch, then boxing is in worse shape than I thought.

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If Chavez was made mandatory or something equally as stupid immediately then I agree. If Martinez wanted to make a rematch for the cash then I won't begrudge that for him at 37.

Would rather see him face someone else. Alvarez if possible.

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I wouldn't hate on Martinez for taking a big payday for an easy rematch. I just think that if there is big money in a rematch and people are willing to pay for it, it just shows how used they are to having crap shoveled down their throat by boxing's powers that be. You couldn't get me to watch that rematch for free - there's no mystery what the outcome will be.

JC Jr is one of those guys I just want to see sparked out cold. No it's not because he beat Andy Lee or anything it's that the guy has been handed titles, handed easy fights with top billing....I hope they decide to let Golovkin fight him because that kid doesn't take any shit.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

JC Jr is one of those guys I just want to see sparked out cold. No it's not because he beat Andy Lee or anything it's that the guy has been handed titles, handed easy fights with top billing....I hope they decide to let Golovkin fight him because that kid doesn't take any shit.

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Team Chavez will probably go after the easiest trinket they think they can get, perhaps the Aussie Geale, but they'll make him come to mexico or Texas, et al for the fight.

Would Arum and Junior have offered Sergio a rematch if he did manage to have stopped Martinez in that last round. I do not think so.

chavez martinez 2 will be a very different fight. i can't wait to see it!

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Originally Posted by ruthless rocco

chavez martinez 2 will be a very different fight. i can't wait to see it!

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yea because this time Roach will step in to stop the beating after about 8 rounds of Jr getting pounded on, he's not going to let Jr get beat up for another 12

I'd say no , he was pretty much given a gift by Sergio standing in front of him and culdn't finish him, Sergio got up and didnt'look to hold but fought his way back into the last round. One good rally and a face that's gone through a cheese grater doesn't merit the rematch.

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Originally Posted by Master

Would Arum and Junior have offered Sergio a rematch if he did manage to have stopped Martinez in that last round. I do not think so.

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Excellent point.... and one I hadn't seen mentioned yet. Had Junior somehow stopped Martinez in that 12th round, Martinez's chance of getting a rematch with Junior would've been 0.0000000000000000001 percent.

The vast majority of posts so far say that Chavez does not deserve a rematch. (Too bad it wasn't made into a poll). Some have said it's up to Martinez, if it will make him the most money ('cause the split for the fight was a travesty).... but no one has actually come out and said Chavez deserves, or is entitled to a rematch. Well........ no one except this guy:

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Originally Posted by ruthless rocco

chavez martinez 2 will be a very different fight. i can't wait to see it!

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But then, I don't think this guy lives on Earth like the rest of us.