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I think Martinez had a great plan going into that fight. Get into the younger fighters mental state and disable him from believing in himself. Martinez box very well to add on to his mind games but I got to give Jr credit, he stuck in there and finally broke from that web Martinez weave him in.
I think this lost is good for him and will go for the knock out in a rematch.
Going for it, and achieving it.... are two very different things.
Lets get serious here man and I mean no offense. He got shit kicked and dominated from pillar to post for 35.5 minutes of a 36 minute fight. Oh and this was accomplished by a fighter who broke his left hand (power side) and tore ligaments in his knee. Given those facts Martinez took some time off, had a brain fart or whatever in the 12th round and got clocked. In short Martinez let him in. Had Martinez not broke his left, Chavez would have never seen round 12.Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Rain
Dillusional. So if I during one race beat usain bolt out the blocks to 20 meters that means next time I will beat him in the 100 correct.....according to your logic. No, or if I throw up a hail Mary over lebron James I can beat him in a one on one right?
Really wtf. Martinez kicks this dudes ass gets known gets up doesn't hold or run and Chavez still couldn't ko him, and all the sudden Chavez can ko him? We're da fuc is the logic? So next time Martinez will stand in one spot so Chavez can throw bombs. Maybe Martinez will fight with one arm behind his back with a cast on his leg then just maybe Chavez can win 2 rounds.
Maybe, but he couldn't even land a punch until Martinez decided to stand in front of him in the last round.
This shits getting ridicelous every freakin column I read is calling for a rematch cause of 60seconds of success. I don't think I ve ever seen a dude get as much credit for being beaten from pillar to post for eleven and a half rounds, this was probably martinez's easiest defense . I don't hear people yelling for a macklin rematch or a pavlik rematch both who made it much closer fights, both had martinez down at some point, just not in the last round so were not getting this shit about what would happen the round after cause we saw what happened martinez goes back to dominating...I'm sorry this was a borring fight and I have no desire to see it again.
This man knows things.Quote:
Originally Posted by armin
You guys forget Jr is only 26, is it not possible to learn from this defeat? When he let his hands go, its a different fight. When he stands infront of Martinez and follows him around ofcourse he gets dominated. Does that not point to youth/inexperience? Is Jr forever at this level and can not get any better?
I don't understand, he almost had Martinez out when he finally let his hands go and you guys don't even want to see a rematch?
Also why brag about Martinez injury? :confused: Did he come into the fight with it? As much as he was moving around and throwing left hands, it didn't seem to bother him?
BTW I'm a martinez fan!
he didn't only get the KD cause he let his hands go...it came after his opponent was tired from dominating him the 11 previous rounds, his injuries come into play because he was able to dominate Jr even with the injuries, one could only imagine what he would have done had he been 100% the entire fight, to ignore those MAJOR details just shows how big of a Roach fanboy u really are, Martinez beats up Jr even worse in a rematchQuote:
Originally Posted by Julius Rain
Please. Wilfredo was 15 as a pro and fought 25 times in one year to get his shot. Balls! You forget apparently that Martinez is coming on 38 and embarrassed a 26 year old.
i don't understand why some people can't see that a rematch between these two would be very different from the first fight.
i think chavez was afraid to throw for the first few rounds of the fight because he was scared of getting caught by martinez. martinez is so fast and has such a varied attack that he basically shut chavez down. thats pure skill or martinez' part. he dominated him completely. but thru all the punishment dished out chavez was still there to the end. he never wavered, was never wobbled or rocked and never looked hurt (aside from his face, which looked sore as hell).
so what happens in a rematch? i'm of the opinion that martinez fought the best fight he could until the last round. i don't see martinez fighting a more perfect fight the second time around, unless he gets lucky with some crazy paul williams flooring left hand. martinez now knows that chavez can take his best punches...all his best punches. he also knows that chavez hits hard, and that he can be KO'd by him. chavez knows he can walk thru and survive anything martinez throws at him so he knows he has less to worry about the second time around so he'll throw more earlier. i see chavez stalking harder, thowing more and connecting more. i don't buy the idea that martinez got caught cause he got careless...i think he got caught cause he started getting tired and chavez started to connect in the last few rounds. i believe he landed some decent punches in the 11th and clearly the 12th... which coupled with the strain of having to be completely alert at all times wore martinez down enough to get caught in the 12th. so maybe martinez starts to fade a little earlier the second time around.
i think a rematch would be interesting mainly because so man people think martinez is a golden god and that chavez has been exposed as a fraud.
Boxing is a business, fighters are contractors who work where they make the most money. That last minute KD insured a rematch between Martinez and Chavez will bring another huge payday for both fighters. Whether or not Chavez deserves a rematch is immaterial because money drives boxing. Pavlik and Macklin aren't hugely popular Mexican fighters and Mexicans support and believe in their fighters as well as any country. Hey, I'll pop for PPV again because I want to see if Martinez can do it again, or will Chavez listen to Roach and let his hands go sooner. Get used to it, there will be a rematch. Vegas is salivating already.Quote:
Originally Posted by armin
You guys talking about how Chavez will learn from this fight and a rematch would therefore be different are forgetting about two very important facts: (1) Chavez is not that naturally talented and (2) Chavez is lazy as all hell. He will not improve any further, either in a rematch or in his career in general. 50 professional fights is well enough to see that.
Just look at everything his own trainer has said about him in the aftermath.
As soon as he relizes there are thirty five additional minutes out of thirty six where he shouldn't be getting punched in the face at will, well yeah, I'm sure he'll put on some clothes and march right off to the for real gym. Come on man.
No change of result in a rematch, speed kills and Chavez couldn't cope. I think hie rep for being lazy in training will not turn around for a quick rematch unless he has learned some humility and to listen to others.
Martinez always has the fitness, only recently did his interest seem to wander. I think there could be KO second time around but not in Jnr's favour.
Quote:
Originally Posted by armin
@shza and @armin are correct. Martinez even beat Junior when he decided to stand and trade. The difference between the two is that Martinez is a better skilled boxer. He used a jab. He turned Junior. He evaded Junior's punches. Literally, he was superior in every single facet of boxing. Martinez finally earned his Mayweather/Cotto fight with this performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by shza
@ruthless rocco - I'm disappointed in you because you wouldn't accept a signature bet with me on the fight, yet you still have the audacity to criticize Martinez afterward. We have all made poor picks: for example, I picked Bute to dominate Froch. After the defeat, however, I readily acknowledged my pick was flawed. You continue to heckle Martinez, even when he dominated the fight. A better man has the ability admit when he's wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by ruthless rocco
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruthless rocco
I'm sorry.
I fell asleep through all of your post and this is all I "heard".
My grade 9 science teacher never told me denial was a solid. Therefore I will maintain and deny that gravity does not exist. Never-mind the fact that I would be a photograph on the pavement if not for its existence.
sorry if you feel i've let you down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat@ruthless rocco - I'm disappointed in you because you wouldn't accept a signature bet with me on the fight, yet you still have the audacity to criticize Martinez afterward. We have all made poor picks: for example, I picked Bute to dominate Froch. After the defeat, however, I readily acknowledged my pick was flawed. You continue to heckle Martinez, even when he dominated the fight. A better man has the ability admit when he's wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by ruthless rocco
i'm not criticizing martinez, i'm stating my opinion of the outcome of a rematch. if you re-read my original post you should notice that i've complimented martinez for his superior speed, skill and varied attack. i said he dominated chavez completely. i'm not sure how this escaped you.
also, i didn't pick chavez to win the first fight. i don't remember every declaring that chavez would beat martinez. i believe i said that chavez just had to avoid that one big punch to avoid getting KO'd by martinez.
if there remains any doubt how i really felt in advance of the fight... you should check my pick for the prediction contest (i'll save you the trouble of looking it up): martinez UD!
sergio martinez fans are sore winners... get over yourselves!!!
in learning we have generally two periods in which your brain adapts to new information, one is fluid and the latter is crystalline. That is why its best to teach a fresh new boxer the proper fundamentals than to a boxer with well over 30+ bouts. It is essentially teaching an old dog new tricks. It seldom has to do with your personal age than repeated experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Rain
Surgar Ray was a boxer before he fought Duran and that's why in his second fight he had a sharp contrast to his original fight with him.
The point I'm try to make here is that you cannot suddenly force a guy to behave a certain way after he's already set in his own way. Look at Chavez vs Molina and you'll see he had the exact same problem and that was years ago. To believe that he'll suddenly be pumping the jab and throwing arm punch check hooks to keep Martinez in front of him while he's cutting the ring off is like saying that its possible to David Haye or Wladimir Klitschko to be good infighters.
It is in the realm of fantasy, I appreciate the zeal in which you like a new fighter but please be realistic with your expectations of him.
I do not think Junior will KO Martinez in the rematch as he will not make weight comfortably and he is not good enough to stop Sergio. I think the rematch will probably happen because it will make the most money for Sergio at this weight.
Martinez did win easily. But we now know he is not as invincible as he has looked before and other fighters know that know. So I expect the top guys like Mayweather and Pac to want a piece of him.
A 160 lbs fighter would seldom evoke invincibility against the punch of an opponent who weighs 20 pounds more come fight night. It was the last round and Sergio was tired and injured whilst the younger Chavez Jr still had fresh arms since he rarely swung them with power the whole fight. So what if Chavez Jr decides to let his hands go earlier in a rematch? Sergio will then have more to work with and Chavez Jr will get punched out and layed out or look worse at the closing bell.
I don't know when Martinez has looked invincible, he gets dropped or hurt pretty much every fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leighton
Martinez/Chavez 2 would go the same as Bute/Andrade 2, Sergio will pound him to submission and stop him from swelling or bleeding next time out
He looked invincible knocking out Paul Williams in their second fight and destroying Sergiy Dzinziruk.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHI don't know when Martinez has looked invincible, he gets dropped or hurt pretty much every fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leighton