Wladimirs resume is excellent...

Sam peter SD and UD James Toney. (Also note Peter beat the champ Maskaev too.) Toney's record in a nutshell::

-UD Vasilly jirov.
-TKO Evander holyfield.
-MD Hashim rahman.
-TKO Hasim rahman (changed to NC due Toney steroid abuse!)
-SD fres oquendo.
-UD Dominick guinn.

Chris Byrd UD David Tua. (Also note Byrd defeated Holyfield and drew with Golota!) Tua's record in a nutshell:

-TKO Hasim rahman
-Draw hasim rahman
-KO 1 john ruiz.
-KO 1 Michael moorer
-TKO 9 Fres oquendo.
-KO 6 danell nicholson.
-TKO 11 Oleg maskaev.

Wlad defeated Byrd and Peter twice. I think wlad's resume is very underrated.

http://dugger-s-ranch.2299399.n4.nab...1681/three.jpg

http://nigeriaworld.com/images/news/...ames-toney.jpg

Add to that:

-Ruslan Chagaev who was undefeated and a gold medaliist (defeated felix savon twice!) beat ruiz, valuev and undefeated # 10 ranked virchis as a pro!

-Eddie chambers who outboxed peter and dimitrenko.

-Calvin brock who was undefeated. Brock was the National golden gloves HW champ 1998. In 1999, he won the U.S amateur championship at 201 lb.

-David haye who was the WBA HW Champion.

-Southpaw tony Thompson TWICE!

-Eliseo Castillo who was undefeated. Holds a UD over michael moorer.

-Lamon Brewster. Noteable wins include stoppages over golota, wladimir and luan krasniqi.

-Hasim Rahman who won the titles in 2001 with a shock defeat of lennox lewis.

-Ray Austin. Best known for beating up an old golota and his draw with sultan ibragimov.

-Danell Nicholson who was 46-4. Holds wins over john ruiz and jesse ferguson.

-Derrick Jefferson who was the 1994 National Golden Gloves Super Heavyweight Champion handing Michael Grant his only amateur loss! Beat phil jackson and bert cooper.

-Sultan Ibragimov who was undefeated He was the WBO heavyweight champion. Best known for beating shannon briggs and asn asgeing holyfield in 07. Also beat lance whitaker who stopped maskaev in 02.

-Ray Mercer who was 30-4-1. A Olympic Gold Medalist and former WBO heavyweight title holder. Noteable wins include witherspoon and tommy morrison.

-DaVarryl Williamson who was 20-2. Williamson after losing to wlad went onto beat oliver mcall in 04.

-Axel schultz who was 26-3-1. Best known for his win over james bonecrusher smith in 94 and his robbery to old foreman and SD loss to michael moorer.

-Monte Barrett who was 23–1. Barrett was coming off of wins over phil jackson, the much overlooked jimmy thunder and greg page. He also went on to beat an ageing tim witherspoon.

-Jameel McCline who was 28-2-3. Mcline had just defeated shannon briggs and kayoed michael grant in 1 round.

-Phil Jackson who was 42-8. Best known for challenging lewis for the WBC Heavyweight Title in 1994.

-Paea Wolfgramm who was 18-1. Olympic silver medallist holds wins over jorge luis gonzalez (who is best known for fighting riddick bowe) and former IBO champ jimmy thunder (who holds wins over witherspoon, crawford grimsley, trevor berbick, tony tubbs and a debateable SD loss to john ruiz)..

Top resume indeed...

It is very solid. Who do you think has the better of the two brothers?

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Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus

It is very solid. Who do you think has the better of the two brothers?

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Wlad, by a big margin.

Hes not very fun to watch though is he?

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Originally Posted by imp

Hes not very fun to watch though is he?

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For those with short attention spans who cannot appreciate the subtle nuances of a ring tactician like wlad no not very exciting! Earlier wlad however was more exciting but not the finished article...

Try these:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPIBUpwS8sI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuH0UMpN9Pc&feature=relmfu

Wlad has a great resume! He's only lost 3 fights out of 61 total. He has 58 wins, 51 KO's for a KO% of 83.61% which is one of the best ever. Every rematch Wlad has had he has won & won by KO/TKO.

Let's look at KO% of other great Heavyweights
Joe Louis: 75.36%
Rocky Marciano: 87.76%
Lennox Lewis: 72.73%
Sonny Liston: 72.22%
Muhammad Ali: 60.66%
Joe Frazier: 72.97%
Mike Tyson: 75.86%
George Foreman: 83.95%
Vitali Klitschko: 87.23%
Larry Holmes: 58.67%

Wlad has fought more southpaws than any other Heavyweight Champion ever. Wlad has 13 successful title defenses in a row about halfway to Joe Louis' record of 25 which he has a shot of tying or beating if he would so choose to attempt that.

People say Wlad is "boring to watch", liking boxing is like enjoying ice cream. Some people are happy with whatever flavor, some people like the basics, some people like the crazy shit, and so on...people like what they like, if they don't like a guy who is technically sound, dominant, and usually wins by KO fine more power to them, but there are people that do enjoy watching Wlad fight he does pack stadiums wherever he fights. If he was to fight again in the US I am certain it would be a big deal and people would go to see it, I know I would try to. You might not like the style in which he fights but he's been an amazing boxer and the heavyweight division will be lucky to have another champion so dominant in the future.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Wlad has a great resume! He's only lost 3 fights out of 61 total. He has 58 wins, 51 KO's for a KO% of 83.61% which is one of the best ever. Every rematch Wlad has had he has won & won by KO/TKO.

Let's look at KO% of other great Heavyweights
Joe Louis: 75.36%
Rocky Marciano: 87.76%
Lennox Lewis: 72.73%
Sonny Liston: 72.22%
Muhammad Ali: 60.66%
Joe Frazier: 72.97%
Mike Tyson: 75.86%
George Foreman: 83.95%
Vitali Klitschko: 87.23%
Larry Holmes: 58.67%

Wlad has fought more southpaws than any other Heavyweight Champion ever. Wlad has 13 successful title defenses in a row about halfway to Joe Louis' record of 25 which he has a shot of tying or beating if he would so choose to attempt that.

People say Wlad is "boring to watch", liking boxing is like enjoying ice cream. Some people are happy with whatever flavor, some people like the basics, some people like the crazy shit, and so on...people like what they like, if they don't like a guy who is technically sound, dominant, and usually wins by KO fine more power to them, but there are people that do enjoy watching Wlad fight he does pack stadiums wherever he fights. If he was to fight again in the US I am certain it would be a big deal and people would go to see it, I know I would try to. You might not like the style in which he fights but he's been an amazing boxer and the heavyweight division will be lucky to have another champion so dominant in the future.

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Klitschko has a doctoral dissertation and was awarded a Ph.D. in Sports Science. He also peaks five languages, is a chess master and a member of the magic circle! He also donate's milions to various charities..

The guy is just an exceptional human being. What an inspiration.

Its not short attention span as you would have to apply that to the majority of boxing fans.
Vitali is prob better to watch imho.
How would you rate vlads losses..would he still be exposed by those types of fighters?

One thing thats evident is that these brothers dominate this post lewis era. Whether you like their style or not.

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Originally Posted by imp

Its not short attention span as you would have to apply that to the majority of boxing fans.
Vitali is prob better to watch imho.
How would you rate vlads losses..would he still be exposed by those types of fighters?

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Purrity was a rookie mistake, wlad had been pro for 1 & half years only i believe and in that time had fought something like 24 pro fights so we can forgive him that one, plus he was dominating purrity up until the stoppage!

Brewster (who i always thought was underrated anyway) received a completely one-sided bashing and gets knocked down for the first time in his career, wlad gasses, brewster capitalises! The rematch was laughably one sided yet this was the guy that had 3 classics with golota, liakovich and krasniqi!

Sanders, who knows! Maybe sanders had wlads number, maybe not! Sanders proved how dangerous he was vs vitali, wlad and rahman! No shame in losing to sanders.

One was easily avenged, another would be easily avenged and as i said maybe sanders was wlads oleg maskaev!

Watch brewster here, on his day he was a devastating fighter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSEOIknE9_4

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Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHER

Quote:

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Originally Posted by imp

Its not short attention span as you would have to apply that to the majority of boxing fans.
Vitali is prob better to watch imho.
How would you rate vlads losses..would he still be exposed by those types of fighters?

---

Purrity was a rookie mistake, wlad had been pro for 1 & half years only i believe and in that time had fought something like 24 pro fights so we can forgive him that one, plus he was dominating purrity up until the stoppage!

Brewster (who i always thought was underrated anyway) received a completely one-sided bashing and gets knocked down for the first time in his career, wlad gasses, brewster capitalises! The rematch was laughably one sided yet this was the guy that had 3 classics with golota, liakovich and krasniqi!

Sanders, who knows! Maybe sanders had wlads number, maybe not! Sanders proved how dangerous he was vs vitali, wlad and rahman! No shame in losing to sanders.

One was easily avenged, another would be easily avenged and as i said maybe sanders was wlads oleg maskaev!

Watch brewster here, on his day he was a devastating fighter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSEOIknE9_4

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Wow. First time i saw that one.
Brewster was an animal in that first round.
Cheers

Quote:

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Originally Posted by imp

Its not short attention span as you would have to apply that to the majority of boxing fans.
Vitali is prob better to watch imho.
How would you rate vlads losses..would he still be exposed by those types of fighters?

---

All people have their different opinions and likes and dislikes so that's fine, I understand it.

Wlad's losses to me show weaknesses he ONCE had, but they also show how far he's come as a boxer. VS Purrity and Brewster it's easy to see that he just threw too many punches, moved too much, and ran out of gas. All credit to Brewster and Purrity who withstood hellacious beatings to end up winning those fights. Unlike a lot of fighters who will fall in love with their power, Wlad took the opportunity to learn from those losses & box more, he learned to pace himself, and clinch when needed and he's not had stamina issues ever again. Wlad uses a strategy where he builds up points, wins rounds, and if the fighter looks like he's tired of getting punched in the head or looks like the punches are affecting him then Wlad finishes the job. VS Corrie Sanders I notice several things #1) Wlad's psyche for that fight #2) Wlad's strategy for that fight and #3) Wlad's lack of quick thinking when in danger. #1 Wlad was attempting at the time to get a title unification bout with Lennox Lewis at the time & was really put on the back burner until he was told/understood he would have to make 1 more title defense to prepare & give Lennox the time to prepare, so Wladimir went into the Sanders fight with little drive (so I would imagine). #2 Wlad had height & reach advantages vs the majority of fighters he faced, but never used them to the degree he does now. VS Sanders you see Wlad in more of a crouch, more prone to throwing big power punches, and apt to leave the left hand down too low and to his credit Corrie Sanders took advantage of all of that. #3 Once Wladimir got caught he was in the "deer in headlights" mode, he froze up mentally, he didn't attempt to tie up Sanders in good situations leaving his hands in a defenseless position and allowing Sanders to tee off. Between rounds Wlad didn't get his legs back....if I'm his trainer I don't know if I allow him to sit down after that round, you need him stood up, getting that feeling back and recovering.

After those fights you see Wlad learn, adapt, and dominate and I think it speaks to how smart and tough Wlad is and how hard he has worked at honing his craft. How many fighters who hit rock bottom are able to bounce back like him? The Baptism of fire that was the Sam Peter I fight really made him a new boxer and IMO was one of his more impressive victories because of how low he was at the time and how vulnerable he was vs how Sam Peter was supposed to be the next big thing. Wlad has shone damn near everything a heavyweight fighter can show, he's been cut badly and had to gun for a KO (so he thought vs Brock), he's been knocked down and gotten up to win (vs Sam Peter), he's not been behind on the cards and needed a KO though simply because he's too good of a technical boxer to have that happen to him.

in their prime

Bruno KO2 Wlad Klitschko

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Originally Posted by Mark TKO

in their prime

Bruno KO2 Wlad Klitschko

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Your account was apparently hacked by erics44

Wlad can only beat what is put in front of him and he has. The reality that these are very poor heavyweights and he should be expected to beat them.

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Originally Posted by Master

Wlad can only beat what is put in front of him and he has. The reality that these are very poor heavyweights and he should be expected to beat them.

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#1 He does beat them and #2 Wlad can't MAKE those guys be better boxers than they are just like he can't make them show up in shape or show up to win.

Wlad has beaten some very good if inconsistent fighters in his career

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Master

Wlad can only beat what is put in front of him and he has. The reality that these are very poor heavyweights and he should be expected to beat them.

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#1 He does beat them and #2 Wlad can't MAKE those guys be better boxers than they are just like he can't make them show up in shape or show up to win.

Wlad has beaten some very good if inconsistent fighters in his career

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I never said Wlad can make them better boxers just as Tyson could not go to his opponents dressing room and say "do not worry I will not hurt you I am really soft at heart".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Master

Wlad can only beat what is put in front of him and he has. The reality that these are very poor heavyweights and he should be expected to beat them.

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#1 He does beat them and #2 Wlad can't MAKE those guys be better boxers than they are just like he can't make them show up in shape or show up to win.

Wlad has beaten some very good if inconsistent fighters in his career

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I never said Wlad can make them better boxers just as Tyson could not go to his opponents dressing room and say "do not worry I will not hurt you I am really soft at heart".

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Wlad beats them in dominant fashion not the same way as Tyson but the same dominance.

Since when was Toney/Rahman 2 made a NC because of steroids? It was made a NC because Rahman ran off crying about being blind. That was nothing to do with steroids.

Wlad never faced a prime Toney and I will always hold that against him.

To me his record should put in in top 3 p4p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Since when was Toney/Rahman 2 made a NC because of steroids? It was made a NC because Rahman ran off crying about being blind. That was nothing to do with steroids.

Wlad never faced a prime Toney and I will always hold that against him.

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:rolleyes:

Toney was never "prime" at heavyweight, hell he was barely "prime" at cruiserweight. Wlad would have EASILY handled Toney the jab alone makes Toney's roll & counter style ineffective. Plus I've yet to see a guy use both arms to block Wlad's power punches much less use one arm to block and be effective.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Since when was Toney/Rahman 2 made a NC because of steroids? It was made a NC because Rahman ran off crying about being blind. That was nothing to do with steroids.

Wlad never faced a prime Toney and I will always hold that against him.

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:rolleyes:

Toney was never "prime" at heavyweight, hell he was barely "prime" at cruiserweight. Wlad would have EASILY handled Toney the jab alone makes Toney's roll & counter style ineffective. Plus I've yet to see a guy use both arms to block Wlad's power punches much less use one arm to block and be effective.

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Truer words were never spoken. Toney at HW was a blown-up whale of a man. He would've gotten shelled by Wlad mercilessly (unless Wlad went into a totally unnecessary defensive pose). Toney would have use the shoulder so much, he'd end up with his back toward Wlad most of the time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

Truer words were never spoken. Toney at HW was a blown-up whale of a man. He would've gotten shelled by Wlad mercilessly (unless Wlad went into a totally unnecessary defensive pose). Toney would have use the shoulder so much, he'd end up with his back toward Wlad most of the time.

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Well not only that but if you're using the shoulder roll vs a fighter with such a long reach and a fighter who can move quickly as well it's not so much that Toney will have his back towards Wlad the entire time it's Toney will roll and Wlad will have a perfect window to land flush left hooks all day long.....I think that fight not getting made is the sole reason James Toney never lost via KO/TKO because that fight would have been a one sided beatdown to end all beatdowns

Quote:

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

Truer words were never spoken. Toney at HW was a blown-up whale of a man. He would've gotten shelled by Wlad mercilessly (unless Wlad went into a totally unnecessary defensive pose). Toney would have use the shoulder so much, he'd end up with his back toward Wlad most of the time.

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Well not only that but if you're using the shoulder roll vs a fighter with such a long reach and a fighter who can move quickly as well it's not so much that Toney will have his back towards Wlad the entire time it's Toney will roll and Wlad will have a perfect window to land flush left hooks all day long.....I think that fight not getting made is the sole reason James Toney never lost via KO/TKO because that fight would have been a one sided beatdown to end all beatdowns

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Toney having his back turned was a deliberate exaggeration, Lyle. Of course he's not gonna have his back turned to Wlad. I myself am not a huge fan of the shoulder roll, especially if it's overdone in a fight. And that's the only defense Toney would have against Wlad. Wlad is not the most agile heavyweight in history... but he's pretty athletic and might figure out somewhere along the line that the left hook would be a pretty good weapon. BUT.... by throwing that left hook, he'd leave himself open to a well-timed counter by Toney, which could lead to trouble, given Wlad's susceptibility to a clean hard shot.

More likely than not, the fight would become boring, with Toney overdoing the shoulder roll to the point of nausea.... and Wlad jabbing and poking his way in, while at the same time being overly cautious not to get caught by a counter.

You seem to forget how well Wlad hooks off the jab and how he can throw hooks in repetition quickly as well. James Toney never had the power to be a dangerous heavyweight....cruiserweight maybe as Jirov found out, but heavyweight?!?! At heavyweight James Toney has stopped a total of 3 fighters out of 13 fights. 2 of those stoppages were due to injuries and not the "awesome punching power" of James 'Two Ton' Toney.

To beat Wladimir as I've stated many MANY times before, you either have to weather the storm and keep pouring on pressure OR land clean and follow up without allowing Wladimir to clinch or escape your pressure. James Toney couldn't do either of those IMO.

Toney of 6 years ago was an awesome beast of a fighter. He seldom lost rounds at HW and did so because he had better upper body movement, could slip inside, and would throw in delightful, crisp combinations. He was beautiful to watch. Wlad lost to FAR worse fighters than James Toney and we are to sit here and say Wlad would just pick him off or punch through him. It is nonsense, nobody punches through James Toney.

Compare Toney/Peter 1 and Wlad/Peter 1. Toney did the far more convincing showing really and let's not pretend that Peter won that fight. Toney takes the punches finds a way and THAT is the fat Toney.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Toney of 6 years ago was an awesome beast of a fighter. He seldom lost rounds at HW and did so because he had better upper body movement, could slip inside, and would throw in delightful, crisp combinations. He was beautiful to watch. Wlad lost to FAR worse fighters than James Toney and we are to sit here and say Wlad would just pick him off or punch through him. It is nonsense, nobody punches through James Toney.

Compare Toney/Peter 1 and Wlad/Peter 1. Toney did the far more convincing showing really and let's not pretend that Peter won that fight. Toney takes the punches finds a way and THAT is the fat Toney.

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miles you loon, the fighters Wladimir lost to had very different styles and strengths that James Toney simply did not have. James Toney could take a punch, but could he apply pressure? NO. James Toney had good defense but did he ever test it out vs a guy with a similar style to Wlad? NO. And James Toney lost to some pretty bad heavyweights himself.

The Wlad that fought Sam Peter isn't the Wlad of today and the Sam Peter that fought Wlad would have beaten James Toney like a rented mule!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Toney of 6 years ago was an awesome beast of a fighter. He seldom lost rounds at HW and did so because he had better upper body movement, could slip inside, and would throw in delightful, crisp combinations. He was beautiful to watch. Wlad lost to FAR worse fighters than James Toney and we are to sit here and say Wlad would just pick him off or punch through him. It is nonsense, nobody punches through James Toney.

Compare Toney/Peter 1 and Wlad/Peter 1. Toney did the far more convincing showing really and let's not pretend that Peter won that fight. Toney takes the punches finds a way and THAT is the fat Toney.

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miles you loon, the fighters Wladimir lost to had very different styles and strengths that James Toney simply did not have. James Toney could take a punch, but could he apply pressure? NO. James Toney had good defense but did he ever test it out vs a guy with a similar style to Wlad? NO. And James Toney lost to some pretty bad heavyweights himself.

The Wlad that fought Sam Peter isn't the Wlad of today and the Sam Peter that fought Wlad would have beaten James Toney like a rented mule!

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James Toney of a few years back was a very credible opponent and it NEVER happened. That is a gaping hole and I am convinced it was because Steward wanted no part of James Toney. He knows the skills Toney had and how difficult he was to hit clean and how he would make you look foolish. Toney in those years was awesome, many people on here were high on his skills. Me too. It's just I haven't forgotten and revised everything on the basis of a broken toe, a fat belly or any of that. Toney isn't the hardest puncher, but Wlad has an awful chin and he fights like it. Toney wobbled Rahman bad, he would do that to Wlad too. Just look for that moment and bang. What's Wlad going to do? Hug. Toney steps back, throws the uppercut, a quick left and a right and Wlad is head first through the ropes.

If Toney wants to come forward he can, he has done that plenty at HW. He was seldom laying on the ropes in the first Peter fight, but a better example is Holyfield and Toney did all that wherever he wanted and was largely taking it to Holyfield. People always downplay a still active, less than his best fighter, but Toney was better than ANYONE Wlad has faced.

James Toney's career highlight was his TKO of Michael Nunn. Throw in maybe the victories over Mike McCallum and Iran Barkley in the early 90's... and that about wraps it up. 21st century Toney is a fat, ballooned-up whale, who has absolutely no business fighting in the HW ranks. Thankfully for him, the division is mediocre and has been for quite some time. Had he ever faced a Tyson or a Lewis in his prime..... that would've been the end to Fat Toney's experiment. It would've given him a sudden urge to get back in some semblance of physical shape and get back to a division where he belongs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Quote:

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Toney of 6 years ago was an awesome beast of a fighter. He seldom lost rounds at HW and did so because he had better upper body movement, could slip inside, and would throw in delightful, crisp combinations. He was beautiful to watch. Wlad lost to FAR worse fighters than James Toney and we are to sit here and say Wlad would just pick him off or punch through him. It is nonsense, nobody punches through James Toney.

Compare Toney/Peter 1 and Wlad/Peter 1. Toney did the far more convincing showing really and let's not pretend that Peter won that fight. Toney takes the punches finds a way and THAT is the fat Toney.

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miles you loon, the fighters Wladimir lost to had very different styles and strengths that James Toney simply did not have. James Toney could take a punch, but could he apply pressure? NO. James Toney had good defense but did he ever test it out vs a guy with a similar style to Wlad? NO. And James Toney lost to some pretty bad heavyweights himself.

The Wlad that fought Sam Peter isn't the Wlad of today and the Sam Peter that fought Wlad would have beaten James Toney like a rented mule!

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James Toney of a few years back was a very credible opponent and it NEVER happened. That is a gaping hole and I am convinced it was because Steward wanted no part of James Toney. He knows the skills Toney had and how difficult he was to hit clean and how he would make you look foolish. Toney in those years was awesome, many people on here were high on his skills. Me too. It's just I haven't forgotten and revised everything on the basis of a broken toe, a fat belly or any of that. Toney isn't the hardest puncher, but Wlad has an awful chin and he fights like it. Toney wobbled Rahman bad, he would do that to Wlad too. Just look for that moment and bang. What's Wlad going to do? Hug. Toney steps back, throws the uppercut, a quick left and a right and Wlad is head first through the ropes.

If Toney wants to come forward he can, he has done that plenty at HW. He was seldom laying on the ropes in the first Peter fight, but a better example is Holyfield and Toney did all that wherever he wanted and was largely taking it to Holyfield. People always downplay a still active, less than his best fighter, but Toney was better than ANYONE Wlad has faced.

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...til he got popped for steroids eh buddy?

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Quote:

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Toney of 6 years ago was an awesome beast of a fighter. He seldom lost rounds at HW and did so because he had better upper body movement, could slip inside, and would throw in delightful, crisp combinations. He was beautiful to watch. Wlad lost to FAR worse fighters than James Toney and we are to sit here and say Wlad would just pick him off or punch through him. It is nonsense, nobody punches through James Toney.

Compare Toney/Peter 1 and Wlad/Peter 1. Toney did the far more convincing showing really and let's not pretend that Peter won that fight. Toney takes the punches finds a way and THAT is the fat Toney.

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miles you loon, the fighters Wladimir lost to had very different styles and strengths that James Toney simply did not have. James Toney could take a punch, but could he apply pressure? NO. James Toney had good defense but did he ever test it out vs a guy with a similar style to Wlad? NO. And James Toney lost to some pretty bad heavyweights himself.

The Wlad that fought Sam Peter isn't the Wlad of today and the Sam Peter that fought Wlad would have beaten James Toney like a rented mule!

---

James Toney of a few years back was a very credible opponent and it NEVER happened. That is a gaping hole and I am convinced it was because Steward wanted no part of James Toney. He knows the skills Toney had and how difficult he was to hit clean and how he would make you look foolish. Toney in those years was awesome, many people on here were high on his skills. Me too. It's just I haven't forgotten and revised everything on the basis of a broken toe, a fat belly or any of that. Toney isn't the hardest puncher, but Wlad has an awful chin and he fights like it. Toney wobbled Rahman bad, he would do that to Wlad too. Just look for that moment and bang. What's Wlad going to do? Hug. Toney steps back, throws the uppercut, a quick left and a right and Wlad is head first through the ropes.

If Toney wants to come forward he can, he has done that plenty at HW. He was seldom laying on the ropes in the first Peter fight, but a better example is Holyfield and Toney did all that wherever he wanted and was largely taking it to Holyfield. People always downplay a still active, less than his best fighter, but Toney was better than ANYONE Wlad has faced.

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...til he got popped for steroids eh buddy?

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Whichever way you look at it, every so called heavyweight is there on the resume, except James Toney. That is a fact, right? Neither Klitschko faced James Toney.

This weekend Povetkin destroyed Rahman. Why Rahman? Toney crushed him in their second bout. Toney should have got a shot, but instead Rahman got his shot and finally a shot against Povetkin.

Where is the logic? Toney was avoided in his prime at HW and even afterwards.

I will maintain the Toney argument to the end as I think it has been ignored. Wlad is not all that good, he has fought garbage. Tony Thompson etc. Are we serious with this rubbish?

The sad truth is that these people are serious. They are mad.

But James Toney is better.

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

The sad truth is that these people are serious. They are mad.

But James Toney is better.

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miles, the only thing sad on this thread is you and your defense of a roided up marshmellow..>Wlad would have and might possibly still beat the fuck out of James Toney, I mean who's to say he could still get a shot.

Wladimir's resume is very underrated. He's been beating a lot of good fighters (Haye, Chagaev, Ibragimov, Brock, Byrd, prime McCline, etc) over a long period of time.

He's stopped more title challengers who were never stopped before he fought them (Brock, Chagaev, Shufford, Castillo, Chambers, Thompson, etc) than any heavyweight in history.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

The sad truth is that these people are serious. They are mad.

But James Toney is better.

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miles, the only thing sad on this thread is you and your defense of a roided up marshmellow..>Wlad would have and might possibly still beat the fuck out of James Toney, I mean who's to say he could still get a shot.

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I am the last of a fading breed. JFAT for life, baby. We got milk!

The opposition are so good he has to fight them twice. :)

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Originally Posted by Master

The opposition are so good he has to fight them twice. :)

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As oppposed to ali fighting spinks, cooper, bugner, quarry, liston, chuvalo and patterson twice? Or how about gene tunney fighting greb 5 times? Silly post. 98% Of fighters in history have rematched ppl! LOL joker....

I don't think having 6 wins over byrd, peter and thompson is anything to be ashamed about do you? Especially considering 2 of them are southpaws.....

Thompson deserved his mandatory shot for the WBO by taking Luan Krasniqi out in 5 rounds in gemany!!!

He was the the IBF mandatory in the 2nd fight. At least wlad fights his southpaw IBF mandatories. And id certainly pick thompson over the likes of i.e akinwande, jackson and botha on lewis' resume!

I think you'l find thompson put up a better fight vs wlad than the HW saviour haye did too...

Can't believe what I'm reading here!! His list of opponents stinks!!