http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcYsO890YJY
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/worl...icle-1.1187502
:lyle:
Printable View
The same doctor who did claim that Chavez was losing ground against cancer not that long ago when, in fact, he's still kickin' and rockin'? Not sure it's a reliable source under the circumstances.
Such secrecy all the time regarding Castro's health. :rolleyes:
You'd think things will change when he dies....... when it fact, they won't.
Brother Raul will ensure a seamless transition within the Castro family.
Hell.... he's likely running things now anyway.
Soon Cuba will be free again! Cuba Libre!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Uhh.... see post # 3 above.
He is running things. Mind you, I don't like anyone gloating over Fidel's state if true. The man is no saint, but he has done a lot of good things for Cuba and resisted Yankee imperialism.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
I find it ironic that someone like Lyle is suggesting that a nation might become free. Free for what? US corporations to divide and conquer? To advise on how to privatize healthcare? etc etc Keep it within your own borders. It is none of your business.
Agree 100%. He is hated by the U.S. because he will not sell his people into Salvery.Quote:
Originally Posted by GandalfHe is running things. Mind you, I don't like anyone gloating over Fidel's state if true. The man is no saint, but he has done a lot of good things for Cuba and resisted Yankee imperialism.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
I find it ironic that someone like Lyle is suggesting that a nation might become free. Free for what? US corporations to divide and conquer? To advise on how to privatize healthcare? etc etc Keep it within your own borders. It is none of your business.
Yes. No saint as you say but he has achieved some remarkable things given the circumstances. Also, as you say, Raul has been running things for a while now anyway. But if and when Fidel dies many observers feel that Raul's anti-US position will soften somewhat.Quote:
Originally Posted by GandalfHe is running things. Mind you, I don't like anyone gloating over Fidel's state if true. The man is no saint, but he has done a lot of good things for Cuba and resisted Yankee imperialism.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
I find it ironic that someone like Lyle is suggesting that a nation might become free. Free for what? US corporations to divide and conquer? To advise on how to privatize healthcare? etc etc Keep it within your own borders. It is none of your business.
Fidel is a great man and created the boxing amateur dynasty.
Fidel is/was a despot. Seriously if you are a benevolent great man you don't make it illegal to leave your country w/o government sanction and make it punishable by prison. If Cuba was a great place to live people wouldn't risk drowning in the ocean by the boat full to leave knowing if they are caught by the Cuban government the best they can hope for is a prison sentence.
If America was such a great place it wouldn't have ghetto's, gun crime issues, endemic drug problems, mass unemployment, people selling their homes for medical treatment etc etc. Cuba has its problems, but these things are all relative. I've seen a massive influx of Americans come to this country recently. It doesn't seem to be doing very well either, though it likes to force a lot of others to suffer with embargo's and the like. Despicable really.Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorCharlie
Personally I am completely against unelected representatives, but Castro has done some good things. You aren't going to need tens of thousands of dollars for medical treatment and it has a decent system of education. And lest we forget, Cuba struggles so much because America makes it so with its ridiculous embargo.
The US wanted their puppet in Batisda and on that being rejected, Cubans have been paying the price ever since. All things considered Cuba has done well.
This may be the thousandth Castro at death's door story since he took power :
Fidel Castro's public appearance quashes deathbed rumours | World news | guardian.co.uk
I see where this thread is going, another chance for miles to spew his anti-american bullshit, and he appears to have friends.
Let me be clear, Fidel Castro is a sworn enemy of United States, who came close to causing a catastrophic nuclear war between the U.S. and the Soviet Union. All you muther-fuckers who think he's a great man can kiss my American ass. I hope the commie cocksucker dies an excruciatingly painful death, I just wish I could be the one to put a bullet in his head.
Castro is a piece of shit, nuff said.Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorCharlie
You just don't know when to leave well enough alone and shut the fuck up do you asshole.Quote:
Originally Posted by GandalfIf America was such a great place it wouldn't have ghetto's, gun crime issues, endemic drug problems, mass unemployment, people selling their homes for medical treatment etc etc. Cuba has its problems, but these things are all relative. I've seen a massive influx of Americans come to this country recently. It doesn't seem to be doing very well either, though it likes to force a lot of others to suffer with embargo's and the like. Despicable really.Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorCharlie
Personally I am completely against unelected representatives, but Castro has done some good things. You aren't going to need tens of thousands of dollars for medical treatment and it has a decent system of education. And lest we forget, Cuba struggles so much because America makes it so with its ridiculous embargo.
The US wanted their puppet in Batisda and on that being rejected, Cubans have been paying the price ever since. All things considered Cuba has done well.
Miles you are so cute when you go on your I hate America rants. The thread is about Cuba so why are you comparing it to the US (as if there even is a comparison)? You could list those problems for just about every nation particularly one that has a diverse population of over 300+ million people. That being said I can think of a country that thousands of people daily risk their lives to enter but you are right that place probably sucks balls. Have you actually been to Cuba? B/C I have and I would say all things being relative that they are not doing very well. At the end of the day if you have to make a system or set of ideas mandatory then they probably are not very good.
.....no he's hated by the US because he's a tyranical leader of a Communist Nation that once parked nuclear missles 90 miles off our coast and the sooner he dies the sooner everyone can go piss on his grave!Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbig1
And miles so South Korea has 0 ghettos? 0 poor people? 0 violence? Or are you going to abstain once again from allying yourself with a nation because you're an idealist but also a chickenshit. You keep pushing buttons with the Americans and I simply ask for your alternative....should we be more like Cuba? I mean your argument is that the US should do something other than what it is presently doing so should we be more like Cuba or South Korea or England or "Miles-ville" where there are Unicorns and Gumdrop houses and the wealthy are drawn and quartered for fun every hour on the hour?
Serious question Lyle, not trying to yank your chain - to you is my avatar the equivilent of having Pol Pot or something? Is Castro demonised to that level in the United States?Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong.....no he's hated by the US because he's a tyranical leader of a Communist Nation that once parked nuclear missles 90 miles off our coast and the sooner he dies the sooner everyone can go piss on his grave!Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbig1
And miles so South Korea has 0 ghettos? 0 poor people? 0 violence? Or are you going to abstain once again from allying yourself with a nation because you're an idealist but also a chickenshit. You keep pushing buttons with the Americans and I simply ask for your alternative....should we be more like Cuba? I mean your argument is that the US should do something other than what it is presently doing so should we be more like Cuba or South Korea or England or "Miles-ville" where there are Unicorns and Gumdrop houses and the wealthy are drawn and quartered for fun every hour on the hour?
People don't like him...the Cubans here HATE him (mainly because they've lost loved ones or can't see their families because of him). I'm not Cuban, I have a mixed heritage but that's another topic. Castro is not Hitler, he's just one of many bad dudes that just happen to be the leader of a nearby nation.Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanman
I don't care for him because you don't threaten the US like he did and not pay any consequences for it. The embargo has made Cuba a shithole and rightfully so. Now when Cuba "gets it's mind right" then I will travel there. I have nothing against the people of Cuba or their culture, just their dickhead leader.
Nothing wrong with your avatar @ryanman if you are Cuban and I won't speak for Lyle here.Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanmanSerious question Lyle, not trying to yank your chain - to you is my avatar the equivilent of having Pol Pot or something? Is Castro demonised to that level in the United States?Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong.....no he's hated by the US because he's a tyranical leader of a Communist Nation that once parked nuclear missles 90 miles off our coast and the sooner he dies the sooner everyone can go piss on his grave!Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbig1
And miles so South Korea has 0 ghettos? 0 poor people? 0 violence? Or are you going to abstain once again from allying yourself with a nation because you're an idealist but also a chickenshit. You keep pushing buttons with the Americans and I simply ask for your alternative....should we be more like Cuba? I mean your argument is that the US should do something other than what it is presently doing so should we be more like Cuba or South Korea or England or "Miles-ville" where there are Unicorns and Gumdrop houses and the wealthy are drawn and quartered for fun every hour on the hour?
Being from Miami and having to put up with the influx of Cuban refugees over the years and all the rest that comes with it. (Lost jobs, increase in crime rate, etc.) If I was not who I am, I might have a problem with it, but this is a global forum and as such, one misguided member with an avatar of Castro is no big deal. :ghost:
The Cubans in Miami hate Castro more than Americans there do though don't they?Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostNothing wrong with your avatar @ryanman if you are Cuban and I won't speak for Lyle here.Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanmanSerious question Lyle, not trying to yank your chain - to you is my avatar the equivilent of having Pol Pot or something? Is Castro demonised to that level in the United States?Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong.....no he's hated by the US because he's a tyranical leader of a Communist Nation that once parked nuclear missles 90 miles off our coast and the sooner he dies the sooner everyone can go piss on his grave!Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbig1
And miles so South Korea has 0 ghettos? 0 poor people? 0 violence? Or are you going to abstain once again from allying yourself with a nation because you're an idealist but also a chickenshit. You keep pushing buttons with the Americans and I simply ask for your alternative....should we be more like Cuba? I mean your argument is that the US should do something other than what it is presently doing so should we be more like Cuba or South Korea or England or "Miles-ville" where there are Unicorns and Gumdrop houses and the wealthy are drawn and quartered for fun every hour on the hour?
Being from Miami and having to put up with the influx of Cuban refugees over the years and all the rest that comes with it. (Lost jobs, increase in crime rate, etc.) If I was not who I am, I might have a problem with it, but this is a global forum and as such, one misguided member with an avatar of Castro is no big deal. :ghost:
I'm not misguided, I've read quite a lot on the subject of Castro's Cuba and the ex pat Cubans in Miami. I understand the wrongdoings of the man but also see the good.
The bravery, cunning, intelligence, charisma and principles involved in his overthrow of Batista is pretty hard not to admire as a impartial and retrospective reader.
*Have you read Cuba Confidential by the way Ghost? It's about the Miami Cubans. It was eye opening for me but obviously would discuss things that you would be well aware of.
Yeah I hear that in bold.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongPeople don't like him...the Cubans here HATE him (mainly because they've lost loved ones or can't see their families because of him). I'm not Cuban, I have a mixed heritage but that's another topic. Castro is not Hitler, he's just one of many bad dudes that just happen to be the leader of a nearby nation.Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanman
I don't care for him because you don't threaten the US like he did and not pay any consequences for it. The embargo has made Cuba a shithole and rightfully so. Now when Cuba "gets it's mind right" then I will travel there. I have nothing against the people of Cuba or their culture, just their dickhead leader.
I would say they have had a fair amount of consequences for the missile crisis though.
Also, from my reading I don't think that Castro was as willing a participant in that as is thought and as he was happy to portray. At that time he is highly vulnerable and reliant on Soviet support. I think the way Castro and his people saw it was that without Soviet support the country would be annexed by the U.S anyway (or U.S supported forces) and Batista or another puppet brought back in. Agreeing to the missle placement was a way to keep Soviet backing and thus ward off American interference in any forthcoming civil wars. Obviously it wasn't the smartest move though.
I'm not saying I agree or even that this is definately the way things were but its just what I understand from my reading.
The commies said Batista was just a puppet for the United States, well with that play on the Missle Crisis Castro showed he was just a puppet for the commies and no different than what people may have thought about Batista although you'd never hear the followers of Castro say such things to them he's smart and a hero.
The deal is this and maybe people think it's Imperialist of me but the United States has a huge economy and we can make (or break) a country. You don't have to offer us sacrifices or anything, just know what side your bread is buttered on. Guys like Chavez could make things so much easier for himself just by easing off hateful comments about the United States. There's enough positives for everyone to end up happy....but don't point missles at us, not cool brah....not cool
Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongPeople don't like him...the Cubans here HATE him (mainly because they've lost loved ones or can't see their families because of him). I'm not Cuban, I have a mixed heritage but that's another topic. Castro is not Hitler, he's just one of many bad dudes that just happen to be the leader of a nearby nation.Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanman
I don't care for him because you don't threaten the US like he did and not pay any consequences for it. The embargo has made Cuba a shithole and rightfully so. Now when Cuba "gets it's mind right" then I will travel there. I have nothing against the people of Cuba or their culture, just their dickhead leader.
You "have nothing against the people of Cuba".... but you make statements like that (bolded). In retrospect, don't you think the same U.S. goals would've been met by just "removing" Castro from power at some point? Just saying.
First of all China is a Communist nation with nuclear missles out the ass. The U.S. has trade with them. #2 China killed a shitload of Americans during the Korean war. Now why do we have trade with China and not Cuba? Well that's easy. If you want to be friends with the U.S. you have to first enslave the work force. Next rape them of any and all human rights. Once that's done them you are a friend of the rich and powerful in America.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong.....no he's hated by the US because he's a tyranical leader of a Communist Nation that once parked nuclear missles 90 miles off our coast and the sooner he dies the sooner everyone can go piss on his grave!Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbig1
And miles so South Korea has 0 ghettos? 0 poor people? 0 violence? Or are you going to abstain once again from allying yourself with a nation because you're an idealist but also a chickenshit. You keep pushing buttons with the Americans and I simply ask for your alternative....should we be more like Cuba? I mean your argument is that the US should do something other than what it is presently doing so should we be more like Cuba or South Korea or England or "Miles-ville" where there are Unicorns and Gumdrop houses and the wealthy are drawn and quartered for fun every hour on the hour?
I haven't been to Cuba but have read a fair bit about the place and have said that it is struggling. However, most of that struggle is as a result of draconian US foreign policy.Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorCharlie
I compared it to the US because an American was attacking it and being rather repulsive about what it has become. I didn't feel it was fair to attack Cuba like that.
I really dislike Castro's 'cult of personality' and his dictatorship, but there are undoubtedly some things that you have to respect about Cuba. It is surviving and it is only the nastiness of the US that is making it this poor. America has done more to hurt Cuba than Castro.
Whatever Miles if it had been Aussies discussing Cuba you'd have still gone on your predictable America is bad rant. I'm all for ending the embargo but if you are seriously going to suggest that Cuba's issues stem more from an embargo than its oppressive regime then you are truly ignorant.
Cuba and the Death of Communism - Reason.com
Cuban Confusion - Reason.com
Cuba: What Is and What Can Be - Hit & Run : Reason.com
It is a combination of the two. I am not ignorant, just unwilling to put all the blame on 'communism'. You need a combination of economic freedom and state planning and when the balance tips too far either way you have problems. Cuba has its problems, I have never said otherwise, but it is not completely without merit.
The people of Cuba are welcomed in the United States, the embargo is designed to weaken their leadership.
The US has trade with China because our "beef" with them was quashed by Nixon & Kissinger. It actually went to ease our relations with the Soviets too as they feared an Alliance forming between us.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbig1
The United States killed a lot more Chinese than they got of our men.....a LOT more. There were waves and waves of Chinese some soldiers not even carrying guns of any kind but running towards the Allies and picking weapons off of dead bodies. Meanwhile Allied machine guns were mowing down rows of these Chinese. The Chinese say circa 152,000 Chinese were killed, the United States' number of Chinese KIA is north of 400,000 men. The United States casualties were 36,000+ KIA, 92,000+ wounded.
Cuba is a trickier situation. We liberated them from Spain, we helped their economy, and were great Allies for a long time, but allowing the Soviets into our "backyard" to point nukes at us is a big No-No. Then of course there was Castro nationalizing American interests in Cuba. Then Cuba blamed us for the explosion of a boat in Havana Harbor. There were aircraft hijackings in the 60's & 70's. Plus there's the hope that after Castro Cuba will be free again at which times embargos & sanctions will be eased if not completely dropped and we'll go back to being buddies. China on the other hand will be Communist for a long while although I believe the end of their communist regime will be more natural as old age will wipe out large swathes of Chinese, that old age will also cost the Chinese damn near all the money we owe them so the winds of change will blow over there in the future, they just happened not to directly attack us it was by proxy due to Vietnam or Korea same with the Soviets.
Operation Northwoods - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Have a read, it's good stuff.
'Operation Northwoods proposals included hijackings and bombings followed by the introduction of phony evidence that would implicate the Cuban government. It stated:
"The desired resultant from the execution of this plan would be to place the United States in the apparent position of suffering defensible grievances from a rash and irresponsible government of Cuba and to develop an international image of a Cuban threat to peace in the Western Hemisphere." '
Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongThe people of Cuba are welcomed in the United States, the embargo is designed to weaken their leadership.
The US has trade with China because our "beef" with them was quashed by Nixon & Kissinger. It actually went to ease our relations with the Soviets too as they feared an Alliance forming between us.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbig1
The United States killed a lot more Chinese than they got of our men.....a LOT more. There were waves and waves of Chinese some soldiers not even carrying guns of any kind but running towards the Allies and picking weapons off of dead bodies. Meanwhile Allied machine guns were mowing down rows of these Chinese. The Chinese say circa 152,000 Chinese were killed, the United States' number of Chinese KIA is north of 400,000 men. The United States casualties were 36,000+ KIA, 92,000+ wounded.
Cuba is a trickier situation. We liberated them from Spain, we helped their economy, and were great Allies for a long time, but allowing the Soviets into our "backyard" to point nukes at us is a big No-No. Then of course there was Castro nationalizing American interests in Cuba. Then Cuba blamed us for the explosion of a boat in Havana Harbor. There were aircraft hijackings in the 60's & 70's. Plus there's the hope that after Castro Cuba will be free again at which times embargos & sanctions will be eased if not completely dropped and we'll go back to being buddies. China on the other hand will be Communist for a long while although I believe the end of their communist regime will be more natural as old age will wipe out large swathes of Chinese, that old age will also cost the Chinese damn near all the money we owe them so the winds of change will blow over there in the future, they just happened not to directly attack us it was by proxy due to Vietnam or Korea same with the Soviets.
So you didn't answer my question (post 24). So you have nothing against the Cuban people or their culture... and yet you applaud the U.S. embargo that has made Cuba a "shithole", as you called it. I asked whether it wouldn't have been just as effective to have removed Castro from power awhile back. And it's not like the U.S. hasn't done this before.
What I've posted above also shows why Castro has maybe never exactly softened his stance against the U.S.Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanman
The US position on Cuba is awful. Why would you soften your stance on a country that tried to invade, then tried to kill you many times.
Fuck America!
miles, don't be such a Negative NancyQuote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
Don't be a knob, Castro suffers but he has achieved a lot. Brain tumour USA is fucked, but in Cuba she will be treated.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabongmiles, don't be such a Negative NancyQuote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
It isn't about you or them. There are good things to take from Cuba. Things that help society.
Hmm... @El Kabong, apparently you only answer questions with a graph attached.
Here's a neat one for you. Maybe now you'll answer my twice-asked question.
Attachment 2594
You didn't make that yourself did you? ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanmanYou didn't make that yourself did you? ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
You have no idea how hard I worked to get that graph small enough (memory-wise) to allow attachment.
;D
;D I admire your commitment Titofan.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by ryanmanYou didn't make that yourself did you? ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
You have no idea how hard I worked to get that graph small enough (memory-wise) to allow attachment.
;D
Am I missing something? What happened in 1990?Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan