If Wlad/Ibragimov wasn't a stinker...
Do you think that North America would care about heavyweight boxing again? Seems like they had a ton of hype for their big unification bout. I remember seeing Wlad everywhere doing press for it (even on Conan O'brien). Seemed like they had mainstream media's attention for it, and then of course the fight was a complete abortion and neither Klitscho fought in the States again (besides Vitali fighting Arreola in his home turf).
Given an exciting, compelling fight, perhaps leading to a spectacular knockout by Wlad... would that have been the shot in the arm that HW boxing needed?
Re: If Wlad/Ibragimov wasn't a stinker...
No, because Wlad isn't capable of it.
Nobody likes a glass jawed robot scared of the slightest breeze directly coming in contact with his fragile chin.
People are interested and attracted to speed, power, skill, charisma, athleticism and talent. Someone that can capture the imagination and leave you in awe. Why do you think Pac is a star in America? Why was Vitali so well received after his fight with Lennox Lewis? They are astonished over their skill and athletic attributes ...
A 6'6" 240 lb man scared to death to engage with a 6'2" 220 lb man even when he has him cornered is shameful. Anyone who isn't even a fan of boxing can tell that Wladimir is a programmed boxer. I have never seen an entertaining Wladimir Klitschko fight, except for the Sanders fight. Even the Brewster fight wasn't that appealing ... the man is hardly even entertaining when he gets knocked out silly.
Re: If Wlad/Ibragimov wasn't a stinker...
Good thought, obviously the fight being in Madison square Garden gave it a much bigger spotlight Stateside than any other recent HW title fight. It certainly must have hurt any chance the division had of gaining momentum given it was so utterly shit.
To answer your question however I would say its extremely unlikely. Neither Wlad or Sultan are consistently exciting; and neither have the sort of persona that would really capture American viewers, even aside from the massive obstacle of being foreign.
Whilst perhaps being besides the point, Wlad isn't really the kind of fighter who would ever be in a total war. For comparison though, his first fight with Sam Peters was exciting and back and forth a a lot of the way, and was also held in the States. His loss to Lamon Brewster was as well, but I doubt either fight did all that much to sway public interest. Hell Brewster was even an American to boot, AND he blitzed Golota in a round right after Wlad, and then..... exactly.
Re: If Wlad/Ibragimov wasn't a stinker...
The fight was what Wlad chose it to be. He settled because another settled and it was a nice sour tasting, silent agreement of a pose fest that passed for a heavyweight title fight. Wlad was in control ...prior, during, and opted not to return Stateside later.
Re: If Wlad/Ibragimov wasn't a stinker...
Why do people like to bring up the Klitschko-Ibragimov fight? Wlad had trouble with Sultan's feints and movement, and so he couldn't get his punches off. Shannon Briggs and Evander Holyfield had even more problems with Sultan's defense-first approach taught by Jeff Mayweather, but it seems no one complains about all the dull fights American heavyweights had.
Seems to me a lot of boxers had their share of "stinkers", but sadly some people just love to criticize Wlad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJ9PVZWjUQ8
Re: If Wlad/Ibragimov wasn't a stinker...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Freedom
Why do people like to bring up the Klitschko-Ibragimov fight? Wlad had trouble with Sultan's feints and movement, and so he couldn't get his punches off. Shannon Briggs and Evander Holyfield had even more problems with Sultan's defense-first approach taught by Jeff Mayweather, but it seems no one complains about all the dull fights American heavyweights had.
Seems to me a lot of boxers had their share of "stinkers", but sadly some people just love to criticize Wlad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJ9PVZWjUQ8
The reason everyone brings it up is that Wlad hurt him badly in 9th, could have finished it and didn't. Even Steward was having a go at Wlad in the corner for not stopping him.
Re: If Wlad/Ibragimov wasn't a stinker...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TysonBomb
People are interested and attracted to speed, power, skill, charisma, athleticism and talent.
You think Wlad doesn't have speed, power, athleticism, skill or talent? Charisma is debatable of course.
Re: If Wlad/Ibragimov wasn't a stinker...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Freedom
Why do people like to bring up the Klitschko-Ibragimov fight? Wlad had trouble with Sultan's feints and movement, and so he couldn't get his punches off. Shannon Briggs and Evander Holyfield had even more problems with Sultan's defense-first approach taught by Jeff Mayweather, but it seems no one complains about all the dull fights American heavyweights had.
Seems to me a lot of boxers had their share of "stinkers", but sadly some people just love to criticize Wlad.
You're missing my point. It doesn't matter who's fault it was that the fight sucked, this isn't a bash fest for Wlad. All I'm saying is that the fight had a ton of mainstream attention, and so it was given a large stage for it to perform. Who's fault it was isn't relevant. The fact is, the fight was a complete abortion and surely soured potential boxing enthusiasts who decided to check this fight out due to the hype and media coverage leading up to it. These fans don't care who was at fault. All they care about is the fact that they plunked down a nice chunk of money to watch two guys stink out MSG.
If it was an exciting fight and/or ended in a great knockout, it would have gotten a ton more exposure post fight (making people more likely to check out Wlad's next fight) instead of turning would-be fans off and fading away like a fart in the wind.
Re: If Wlad/Ibragimov wasn't a stinker...
People blame Wlad, fine he won I guess that's why he gets blamed. Sultan Ibragimov fought in a retreating manner, crouching down low and to the right thereby making Wlad reach any time he wanted to land any punches. Sultan was counting on Wlad overreaching so he could counter Wlad and get him off balance, this was seen as the only way for the smaller Sultan to win the fight. Hand Sultan been on the attack at all we may have seen a better fight but he was waiting for a moment that never came in the fight. Sultan Ibragimov was a good fighter. He had some good fights but this matchup was poor because of the styles, strengths and weaknesses of each fighter.
The heavyweight division would still be where it is today (if not worse) without the Klitschko's and without the Wlad-Sultan fight. Chris Byrd vs Davaryl Williamson fight was worse.
Re: If Wlad/Ibragimov wasn't a stinker...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Freedom
Why do people like to bring up the Klitschko-Ibragimov fight? Wlad had trouble with Sultan's feints and movement, and so he couldn't get his punches off. Shannon Briggs and Evander Holyfield had even more problems with Sultan's defense-first approach taught by Jeff Mayweather, but it seems no one complains about all the dull fights American heavyweights had.
Seems to me a lot of boxers had their share of "stinkers", but sadly some people just love to criticize Wlad.
You're missing my point. It doesn't matter who's fault it was that the fight sucked, this isn't a bash fest for Wlad. All I'm saying is that the fight had a ton of mainstream attention, and so it was given a large stage for it to perform. Who's fault it was isn't relevant. The fact is, the fight was a complete abortion and surely soured potential boxing enthusiasts who decided to check this fight out due to the hype and media coverage leading up to it. These fans don't care who was at fault. All they care about is the fact that they plunked down a nice chunk of money to watch two guys stink out MSG.
If it was an exciting fight and/or ended in a great knockout, it would have gotten a ton more exposure post fight (making people more likely to check out Wlad's next fight) instead of turning would-be fans off and fading away like a fart in the wind.
Personally, I had high hopes for this fight because of the pre-fight hype. But it hugely disappointed. Had it been Wlad's only dull, safety-first performance of his career, I could've written it off..... similar to what happened with Lewis-Tua. But it wasn't, and I didn't. It became crystal clear that this was going to be the Wlad we would see from here on out. Probably ever since the two devastating KO's he suffered.
Would an exciting fight have made the difference in the HW division among American fans? Good question. Maybe. I know a lot of short-sighted fans just get behind American heavyweights... but a great deal more would've warmed up to Wlad if he had shown some of the fire people like to see. And to hear that Stewart himself got on Wlad's case for not taking Sultan out? That's a pretty telling fact right there.
Re: If Wlad/Ibragimov wasn't a stinker...
I think the public are willing to overlook nationality, race, ect if the fighter can deliver the goods. The popularity of Tyson and Pacquiao (a guy who can barely speak english and doesn't really have a showman's personality) showed that I think.
The weird thing about Wlad is that we're not talking about the typical feather-fisted dancer. He has the punching power to stop a tank and a KO percentage comparable to bombers like Foreman and Shavers I think.
Obviously I'm not a boxer or a trainer, but I wish he could find a balance in his gameplan. Upping the pressure he puts on his opponent without putting himself in a position to get KO'd like an amateur.
Only 9 guys have been able to go the distance with him, but it seems like some of those 9 times (the Haye and Sultan fights) were times when the world was watching and he really had the opportunity to bring more fans to the sport.
Re: If Wlad/Ibragimov wasn't a stinker...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bzkfn
The reason everyone brings it up is that Wlad hurt him badly in 9th, could have finished it and didn't. Even Steward was having a go at Wlad in the corner for not stopping him.
No one else ever stopped Sultan either, he had a good chin and an evasive style.
He wasn't hurt that badly in the 9th, although he was at the end of the 11th, but the bell came too soon for Wlad to finish him off.
Steward had similar "go"s at many other fighters, like Lennox Lewis during his fight with Zeljko Mavrovic and Jermain Taylor during his fight with Cory Spinks.
Wlad has stopped a lot of people who were never stopped by anyone else. Chambers has only ever been down once, when Wlad knocked him out cold. Same was true for Tony Thompson. Ruslan Chagaev was never down as an amateur or as a pro until he fought Wladimir.
When Wlad has fought heavyweights who were less durable like Jefferson and Austin, he stopped them early and easily.
People are overly harsh and critical of Wlad. Lennox Lewis couldn't stop Zeljko Mavrovic. Mike Tyson couldn't stop Tony Tucker and James Smith. Jack Johnson was bigger than most of his opponents, yet his KO ratio is just 36.56%. But for some reason, Johnson, Tyson and Lewis never receive the kind of unjust criticism and negativity directed toward Wladimir.
Re: If Wlad/Ibragimov wasn't a stinker...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Freedom
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bzkfn
The reason everyone brings it up is that Wlad hurt him badly in 9th, could have finished it and didn't. Even Steward was having a go at Wlad in the corner for not stopping him.
No one else ever stopped Sultan either, he had a good chin and an evasive style.
He wasn't hurt that badly in the 9th, although he was at the end of the 11th, but the bell came too soon for Wlad to finish him off.
Steward had similar "go"s at many other fighters, like Lennox Lewis during his fight with Zeljko Mavrovic and Jermain Taylor during his fight with Cory Spinks.
Wlad has stopped a lot of people who were never stopped by anyone else. Chambers has only ever been down
once, when Wlad knocked him out cold. Same was true for Tony Thompson. Ruslan Chagaev was never down as an amateur or as a pro until he fought Wladimir.
When Wlad has fought heavyweights who were less durable like Jefferson and Austin, he stopped them early and easily.
People are overly harsh and critical of Wlad. Lennox Lewis couldn't stop Zeljko Mavrovic. Mike Tyson couldn't stop Tony Tucker and James Smith. Jack Johnson was bigger than most of his opponents, yet his KO ratio is just 36.56%. But for some reason, Johnson, Tyson and Lewis never receive the kind of unjust criticism and negativity directed toward Wladimir.
You can continue to bring up the fighters that Tyson and Lewis didn't stop... or the fighters that Wlad did. But the main point here is attitude. Tyson never walked into the ring thinking only of surviving and please don't let me get caught on the chin. Lewis had his ups and downs... but mostly he went in trying to get the guy out. His Tua fight was the only notable exception, as far as I'm concerned. Lewis got lackadaisical at times, which got him KO'ed twice. But how did he react to those KO's? He came back and avenged them. Perfect case in point was the Rahman sequel. Lewis was a man on a mission, and soon KTFO'ed Rahman. Attitude. It's what Wlad doesn't have.
Re: If Wlad/Ibragimov wasn't a stinker...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Freedom
When Wlad has fought heavyweights who were less durable like Jefferson and Austin, he stopped them early and easily.
He was the first guy ever to put Ray Mercer down with a shot to the head. The first ever to stop Ray Mercer. He's taken the 0's away from plenty of fighters, he's fought and beat more southpaws than any other heavyweight champion in recent memory.
People always go on about the negative of Wladimir...it's a shame fans aren't allowed to appreciate what a great champion the guy is. And I say "allowed" because any time you bring up how well he's done in the ring we get "Lennox Lewis this and Mike Tyson that and boy this division sucks no wonder people watch MMA" and that kind of bullshit irks me. Wlad is fighting in front of 50,000-60,000+ people and yet everyone is bitching about him.
One of the problems with boxing fans I feel is that they have very little appreciation for current champions, they always ALWAYS look to the past and I think it hurts the sport and you can't fully appreciate what boxing is at the moment if you're doing that.
Re: If Wlad/Ibragimov wasn't a stinker...
I think the Klitschkos will be far more appreciated in hindsight. They both are remarkable HW fighters who could possibly have been champs in ANY era IMO.
With the decreasing popularity of HW boxing and the increasing popularity of MMA, it's going to be harder and harder for boxing to rope in these world class athletes like the Klitschkos.
Re: If Wlad/Ibragimov wasn't a stinker...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
I think the Klitschkos will be far more appreciated in hindsight. They both are remarkable HW fighters who could possibly have been champs in ANY era IMO.
With the decreasing popularity of HW boxing and the increasing popularity of MMA, it's going to be harder and harder for boxing to rope in these world class athletes like the Klitschkos.
With boxing fans and announcers being increasingly negative and UFC announcers unable to really criticize. There's no pleasing boxing fans these days. They are hypercritical, they look at a fighter like Wlad and when he KO's Ray Austin in 2 he gets nothing, but if he gets an opponent that doesn't want to engage Wlad gets blamed. Hell Wlad beating Sam Peterthe first time was a disappointment to basically everyone but me and now in hindsight everyone is of the idea that Sam Peter was just a shit fighter. Not like a Ron Lyle, not like a Ken Norton, not like an Earnie Shavers, not like a Donovan Ruddock, but just a shit fighter.
Re: If Wlad/Ibragimov wasn't a stinker...
Wlad does have a good personality and is very articulate, he made David Haye look like a complete prat before their fight. However I do not think he could break into the US even if he was more destructive, Lennox Lewis could not do it so Wlad would not be able so either.
Re: If Wlad/Ibragimov wasn't a stinker...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Wlad does have a good personality and is very articulate, he made David Haye look like a complete prat before their fight. However I do not think he could break into the US even if he was more destructive, Lennox Lewis could not do it so Wlad would not be able so either.
Lennox's case I find puzzling. He gave us some exciting fights. Maybe it was his very soft-spoken personality??? I don't know. I do think it was a bit unfair of the American public not to warm up to Lennox. Maybe it was that he followed the Tyson era. One could argue that it would've been a downer for any boxer to have followed Mike Tyson.
Re: If Wlad/Ibragimov wasn't a stinker...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Wlad does have a good personality and is very articulate, he made David Haye look like a complete prat before their fight. However I do not think he could break into the US even if he was more destructive, Lennox Lewis could not do it so Wlad would not be able so either.
Lennox's case I find puzzling. He gave us some exciting fights. Maybe it was his very soft-spoken personality??? I don't know. I
do think it was a bit unfair of the American public not to warm up to Lennox. Maybe it was that he followed the Tyson era. One could argue that it would've been a downer for
any boxer to have followed Mike Tyson.
Lennox was not American, he did fight negative at times and he always talked about himself as a third person probably annoyed the yanks.
Re: If Wlad/Ibragimov wasn't a stinker...
Lewis followed Bowe & Holyfield. Not the biggest punchers, not intimidating fighters, but guys whose styles matched up well.
Re: If Wlad/Ibragimov wasn't a stinker...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
I think the Klitschkos will be far more appreciated in hindsight. They both are remarkable HW fighters who could possibly have been champs in ANY era IMO.
With the decreasing popularity of HW boxing and the increasing popularity of MMA, it's going to be harder and harder for boxing to rope in these world class athletes like the Klitschkos.
With boxing fans and announcers being increasingly negative and UFC announcers unable to really criticize. There's no pleasing boxing fans these days. They are hypercritical, they look at a fighter like Wlad and when he KO's Ray Austin in 2 he gets nothing, but if he gets an opponent that doesn't want to engage Wlad gets blamed. Hell Wlad beating Sam Peterthe first time was a disappointment to basically everyone but me and now in hindsight everyone is of the idea that Sam Peter was just a shit fighter. Not like a Ron Lyle, not like a Ken Norton, not like an Earnie Shavers, not like a Donovan Ruddock, but just a shit fighter.
Sam Peter was a beast and was one of Wlad's better wins.
Who necks!!
