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Ali always had these flat spots where he seemed to zone ot and get hit. Trying to get a 2nd wind etc. I say Rocky would not need a 2nd wind and when Ali needed even 1 mimute to recover say in the 7th or 8th round to get a few nreaths in, Marciano would lower the fucking boom and either break his elbows or hit him in the kidneys or something similar. I say Rocky eventually finds Ali and its lights fucking out.
What age is Ali when this fight takes place?Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
I think...................
That you are Bat Shit crazy!!
Yeah, I dont think Marciano would have lasted that long. Moore was an old light heavyweight and had Marciano in trouble. Rocky just isnt big enough or good enough defensively to live with the big heavies. Look at Patterson. Ali said he was his most skillfull opponent but Liston just walked through him. Ali didnt but Ali wasnt the big puncher that Liston was but Floyd was good defensively and was skillfull, he even had a good punch but just not big enough.
Well, considering Joe Louis was 76 years old when Marciano beat him, I would guess Ali would have to be knocking on a bit for Rocky to get a win.Quote:
Originally Posted by VendettosWhat age is Ali when this fight takes place?Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
We know you do Brock, we know you do... ;)
To much Rum in the Nog Brock?
marciano was the hell of a fighter but I can't see how he'd take a bigger Ali with more power and faster hands, really.
I know this fight has been discussed time and again. I do give Marciano a chance though most definitely. As I have said before Ali could be put down and even though he had great recovery powers and would close the show once he got back up (mostly), if anyone could put him down and keep him there it was the Brockton Blockbuster.
It is Christmas let Brock have his moment. Rocky KO round 14 suzy Q.
Both great fighters.
But ali has a different skillset.
Marciano has as much chance of beating ali as calzaghe has in beating a prime RJJ.
Could be close..but the same winner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by imp
Joe would have been the toughest test for Roy at 168 than any other super mid in history.
The same cannot be said for Marciano/Ali.
Sometimes the fights we imagine would be close because of the boxers individual skillset can be very simple for the fighter who is just that much better..hope that makes sense.
And sometimes not.
Joe would have been the fastest opponent Roy ever faced and from the other side. Roy wins but it would not be easy.
In my humble opinion the Ali/Clay who fought Ernie Terrell and Cleveland Williams would have absolutely destroyed Marciano, it wouldn't have even been competitive. Rocky would have been barely able to lay a glove on Ali because of his defense, and Mariano's short arms.
Marciano might have had better luck fighting the version of Ali after his 3 1/2 year layoff for draft evasion and/or the version of Ali who lost to Joe Frazier in their 1st fight.
I don't think Marciano would have knocked Ali out. I just don't see him hitting him with that kind of consistency.
Marciano was teeing off on fat Don Cockell with flush shots to the chin and had trouble putting him away.
Ali had a great chin and was a great survival artist when he was hurt.
Ali was never knocked out by giants,cant see a small Marciano doing it.
All due respects to the Rock, but the only time he would find Ali would be when he looks up and finds him standing over him during visiting hours at the hospital when Ali visits to check up on the Rock after eye surgery! The Ali of 1966/67 makes mince meat out of the Rock within 6 rounds.
Face it sir, please! We will never know how Marciano would have done against fighters from other eras.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
Marciano would have at least as much of a chance against Ali as Frazier did, probably more so, in my mind, because he was harder to hit. I know the common thought is that Marciano was a punching bag and Frazier some type of defensive genius, but that is simply not the case. Angelo Dundee, Lou Duva, Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, Archie Moore and Roland LaStarza all commented on how much harder it was to hit Marciano, in actuality, than it seemed to be just watching him. Most specifically, he would be hard to hit with jabs and right hands because of the way he moved forward, with his weight back and to his own right. Frazier, conversley, was right there to be hit and thus had to bob and weave to avoid punches that Marciano would simply have ignored, being out of range. The place where Marciano would be most vulnerable to getting hit would be inside, and he'd take that exchange and win it all day. There is no way on earth that Ali can be considered the same quality of in-fighter as Moore or Charles and they could not win that battle with Marciano.
Ali would find himself having to reach with jabs and to land his right hand while constantly having to move into Marciano's right hand to do so. He would simply surround Ali's best punch and make him pay to get in a position to land it. Charley Goldman would see to that. Marciano would win a wide decision, going away, or maybe get a 14th or 15th round tko.
Imho this sums it up^^Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN
Or ali gets told to take a dive by the mob in the 9th rd..marciano must stay unbeaten.
better than I coulda said it. Thank you. Marciano breaks every rib Ali has. Marciano hit WAY HARDER than Frazier. Way harder. Not even close. Frazier had to leap into the left hook to make it rocket-like. Rocky threw off=balance shots harder than Frazier's best hook.Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsoold
Well, one thing for sure. Marciano would crush Joe Frazier prime for prime... no disrespect to the great Smokin' Joe. But this doesn't necessarily translate to a win over Ali. Ali fought and defeated two much larger, and arguably harder punchers than the Rock: Sonny Liston, and George Foreman. And I agree with Mars from a few posts back. It depends on the version of Ali we're talking about. Coupled with Ali's speed, footwork, and boxing ability... you just cannot discount the physical advantages Ali also had (height and reach).
^I think Marciano vs Frazier is a much more interesting fight than Marciano/Ali.
In 1966 Ali fought George Chuvalo and won a unanimous decision. Despite the scores he had a lot of trouble with Chuvalo, who has maintained since that he would have won had the judges scored body punches (he also said the saying you were in a close fight with Ali is like spitting on the Pope; sacrilegious.) At the time many thought that Chuvalo had drawn the blueprint for how to beat Ali.
If a prime Ali had a hard night with George Chuvalo, Marciano would have taken him to hell.
Don't forget what happened to Big George Foreman when he started body punching Ali.Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsoold
Ali would have beaten Rocky as would have Joe Frazier, Christmas is over.
Aint gonna happen,
Never coulda happened,
Styles make fights,
People make styles,
You can only fight whats out there.
Just be respectful to both legacies, true ambassadors of our sport. Unfortunately born in different eras but it gives us something to talk about with our grandsons/sons/dads/grandads... let it go.
Ali had problems with just about everybody, same like Holmes. Ali was rocked by just about every opponent--Doug Jones won the fight, Cooper and another guy floored him, Chuck Wepner floored ahim and went 15 rounds, Chuvalo beat him on pionts, Ken Norton won all 3 fights, Bob Foster cut him, Frazier was wining the 3rd fight if his eyes didnt close, Ali would get waxed in a rematch with Foreman who could probably beat Ali just using his jab and conserving his energy better than Zaire, an old Patterson was "the toughest fight I ever had" said Ali himself. Frazier really showed in the first fight that Ali was only great for his Iron Chin and not much else as Ali's fucking head in that fight should have come off his shoulders on dozens of occasions due to monster left hooks that should have decapitated him. Ali proved he could take any punch from anybody and still fight on. Just that he didnt do too much fightin after Frazier took his head off in the mid to late rounds.
Ali struggled with everybody. Name a fight Ali didnt have a scare or get hurt bad.
Marciano would destroy Ali.
skip to 6:50 of this video and watch Shavers knock Ali out but Ali was unconscious on his feet acting like a monkey and Shavers didnt realize Ali was OUT. Saddo could have KO'ed Ali at that point. Go ahead skip to 6:50 and watch Shavers outbox AND outpunch Ali.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgjbXCVNpl4
Henry Cooper a solid fighter certainly not alltime great giving Ali fits and scoring heavily all night with the left. Ali could be hit easily with the left AND the right.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Frn3rTj5DOY
George Chuvalo---a journeyman--- beat Ali fair and square --Norton won all 3 fights.--- Wepner---a bum by some peoples standards---knocked Ali down and went 15 rounds.---- The 2 Liston fights were THROWN. Sonny needed money. Period. He was a gamblin man. Mafia came callin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmpZhARXbm0
It would not last 15 rounds.
I think Rocky had enough about him to get the KO.
Depends on which Ali showed up and what strategy he used.
How big the ring was, would also benefit Ali, but I think he would not win against Marciano.
The only thing Chuvalo did with any consistency to Ali was hit him with kidney punches in the clinch (which I heard made Ali piss blood for a week).Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsoold
I love George and he certainly was a bruiser and caused Ali a lot of pain and discomfort, I don't think he came close to beating Ali, and if people at the time thought he had drawn the blueprint to beat Ali, I think that sentiment was probably based moreso in the public's distaste for Ali at the time than it was in any real logic.
Chuvalo had probably the best chin in HW history too IMO
Ali gave Marciano a good chance though
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDaw2QFC1Qg
Brock you are sounding like that prat poster Philosopher with fighting little sections where Ali was hit or hurt. I could do the same with Rocky if I looked hard enough in one fight and had the spare time you have.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
joke is on you Master me and Philosopher are the same person.... psych just kidding.
Master did you listen carefully to Ali?
As for Rocky being hit or hurt yes he absolutely WAS hit and hurt. But never had his skull rocked off by 50 left hooks in one single fight like Frazier did to Ali on March 8, 1971. Oh no Master, youll never see that happen to Rocky.
Im sure the mafia helped out with alot of marcianos fights as well..wink wink.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust