French military targets Islamist rebels in Mali

Apparently the Mali Government asked the French to come to their aide:

As a new round of French military strikes targeted Islamist rebels in Mali on Sunday, both sides of the fight said they were determined to win.

French fighter jets bombed rebel training camps and other targets in northern Mali, France's Defense Ministry said in a statement.

"France's goal is to lead a relentless struggle against terrorist groups," the ministry said, "preventing any new offensive of these groups to the south of Mali."

Sunday's air raids were the latest in French efforts supporting Malian government forces battling militant Islamist forces. Additionally, France has several hundred ground troops in Mali, where they may soon be joined by hundreds of troops from nearby African nations.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...90912Q20130113

Mali may end up being the new "Afghanistan" in Africa.

Thoughts?

Strange. They must be pretty damn sure they can win quickly b/c they just left Afghanistan with their tail tucked between their legs.

Oh, those wonderful altruistic French. Always doing things to help their fellow man with absolutely no ulterior motives.

Viva La Revolution!

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Originally Posted by CFH

Oh, those wonderful altruistic French. Always doing things to help their fellow man with absolutely no ulterior motives.

Viva La Revolution!

---

I haven't read anything about the history of Mali but I take it that it was once a French Colony or some such shit, why else would France be trying to help them. I do know that Mali is a large country with plenty of places for Islamic rebels to operate or hide, so it may not be easy to eradicate or remove them, which the French say they are committed to doing.
I see where Britain & the U.S. are getting involved, so this could get interesting. I mean WTF, why miss out on all the fun.

First I heard about this was a local newscast tonight. Sounds like it was centered around a failed hostage rescue but they are pretty tight lipped so far. Figures with the number of citizens they have in the immediate region they feel the urge to actually do something but I'd be hesitant to stand to close with them mainly because you have to think they'll secure their own interest and hop on the next plane out, rebels taking dirt naps or not.

This is one of half a dozen countries that are getting Islamist nutjob/Al Quaeda-like groups setting up shop in it. But really it's just a continuation of rebel groups taking over from tinpot dictatorships in African countries, it's been going on since the colonial era. A couple of decades ago these guys were all Communist or similar, now they're Islamist. Islamism is just the rallying call du jour.

What'll be interesting is to see how much coverage the Brit/US media gives to French industrial/commercial interests in the region and how much of a part they're playing in it. There was plenty Frecnh coverage of our situation when we invaded Iraq.

We've got regional interest too. We'll probably get involved in a limited way, nothing on an Afghanistan scale, more like Libya.

Also, we're allleaving Afghanistan with out tails between our legs. The French just did it first. Getting your people killed for no reason the longest is going to be a competition between Britain and America.

Also too, the Jewhadi attack on Chuck Hagel getting nominated for War Secretary brought this stuff to my attention about our, uh, regional interests. Firstly Chuck Hagel, top foreign policy guy and chairman of the Pentagon Defense Committee for over a decade :

"People say we're not fighting for oil. Of course we are," said the Republican Senator from Nebraska Chuck Hagel to law students of Catholic University last September. "They talk about America's national interest. What the hell do you think they're talking about? We're not there for figs."

Hagel: War for Oil | The Weekly Standard

and this guy, a General who was running the war in Iraq for a couple of years and was head of CENTCOM :

"Of course it’s about oil, it's very much about oil, and we can’t really deny that. From the standpoint of a solider who's now fought in the middle east for six years – my son-in-law's fought there for four years, my daughter's been over there, my son has served the nation – my family has been fighting for a long time." – Gen. John Abizaid, former commander of CENTCOM, October 13, 2007. (Watch Abizaid say this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sd2JseupXQ&t=21m45s.)


and Chairman of the Fed/Wall Street chief spokesman Alan Greenspan :

"I am saddened that it is politically inconvenient to acknowledge what everyone knows: the Iraq war is largely about oil."

Spend some time with the French in Kapisa Province Kirk and you will understand what I'm talking about.

The Mali Army seems totally worthless:

"Islamist rebels chased Mali's army from a garrison town deep in its own territory on Monday, striking back at the weakest link in a nascent coalition after French fighter jets hit militant bases deep in the Sahara."

Mali Rebels Push On Despite French Strikes - WSJ.com

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

This is one of half a dozen countries that are getting Islamist nutjob/Al Quaeda-like groups setting up shop in it. But really it's just a continuation of rebel groups taking over from tinpot dictatorships in African countries, it's been going on since the colonial era. A couple of decades ago these guys were all Communist or similar, now they're Islamist. Islamism is just the rallying call du jour.

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Chairman of the Fed/Wall Street chief spokesman Alan Greenspan :

"I am saddened that it is politically inconvenient to acknowledge what everyone knows: the Iraq war is largely about oil."

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I always wonder where the al Qaeda militants get most of their funding, it would be interesting to know. I know in Afganistan much of their funding came from the sale of opium.

In re: 'The war with Iraq being largely about oil', yeah that and protecting Israel from imaginary nukes. ;)

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

First I heard about this was a local newscast tonight. Sounds like it was centered around a failed hostage rescue but they are pretty tight lipped so far. Figures with the number of citizens they have in the immediate region they feel the urge to actually do something but I'd be hesitant to stand to close with them mainly because you have to think they'll secure their own interest and hop on the next plane out, rebels taking dirt naps or not.

---

When was the last time the French won a war, when Napoleon was there? There's several thousand French citizens living in Southern Mali, other then that I can't see why France would give a fuck about being in that desert shithole.

What have they run out of atolls to bomb into submission?

I like green tree frogs more than I like the majority of French men in positions.
A few in the poorer sector were absolute gems though.

The ones in charge;flexing at certain victory, then run if the tide turns?

This is my impression of a French man saying ello :-\

My impression of a French man saying goodbye :-\

What? :-\

would you like some coffee? :-\

I love you, no? :-\

We will bomb you ,no? :-\

I dont speak English sorry :-\


French women seem a lot more casual and more socially relaxed with less to prove:gorgeous:

Fundamentalists will probably target civilians in Paris or other large cities soon if they push them into a corner.

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Originally Posted by Andre

What have they run out of atolls to bomb into submission?

I like green tree frogs more than I like the majority of French men in positions.
A few in the poorer sector were absolute gems though.

The ones in charge;flexing at certain victory, then run if the tide turns?

This is my impression of a French man saying ello :-\

My impression of a French man saying goodbye :-\

What? :-\

would you like some coffee? :-\

I love you, no? :-\

We will bomb you ,no? :-\

I dont speak English sorry :-\


French women seem a lot more casual and more socially relaxed with less to prove:gorgeous:

Fundamentalists will probably target civilians in Paris or other large cities soon if they push them into a corner.

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Why doesn't France offer the Islamic rebels in Northern Mali an unlimited supply of French bread & Snails in garlic butter in an effort to get them to leave, I mean fuck, it's worth a try.

Mars AX is an idiot. He suddenly thinks we are worried about the French. What a wanker.

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Originally Posted by VictorCharlie

Spend some time with the French in Kapisa Province Kirk and you will understand what I'm talking about.

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I imagine they were extremely pissed off to be there and were loath to put their lives at risk for no good reason.

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Originally Posted by Mars_ax

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Originally Posted by Andre

What have they run out of atolls to bomb into submission?

I like green tree frogs more than I like the majority of French men in positions.
A few in the poorer sector were absolute gems though.

The ones in charge;flexing at certain victory, then run if the tide turns?

This is my impression of a French man saying ello :-\

My impression of a French man saying goodbye :-\

What? :-\

would you like some coffee? :-\

I love you, no? :-\

We will bomb you ,no? :-\

I dont speak English sorry :-\


French women seem a lot more casual and more socially relaxed with less to prove:gorgeous:

Fundamentalists will probably target civilians in Paris or other large cities soon if they push them into a corner.

---

Why doesn't France offer the Islamic rebels in Northern Mali an unlimited supply of French bread & Snails in garlic butter in an effort to get them to leave, I mean fuck, it's worth a try.

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True, probably could just eat that themselves then go and talk to the Malians /MAliai face to face that could make them leave too,the Europeans do talk with their hands as they cant stand each others breath. ;D

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Originally Posted by Mars_ax

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

This is one of half a dozen countries that are getting Islamist nutjob/Al Quaeda-like groups setting up shop in it. But really it's just a continuation of rebel groups taking over from tinpot dictatorships in African countries, it's been going on since the colonial era. A couple of decades ago these guys were all Communist or similar, now they're Islamist. Islamism is just the rallying call du jour.

---

Quote:

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Chairman of the Fed/Wall Street chief spokesman Alan Greenspan :

"I am saddened that it is politically inconvenient to acknowledge what everyone knows: the Iraq war is largely about oil."

---

I always wonder where the al Qaeda militants get most of their funding, it would be interesting to know. I know in Afganistan much of their funding came from the sale of opium.

In re: 'The war with Iraq being largely about oil', yeah that and protecting Israel from imaginary nukes. ;)

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The guys in Mali get their money from drug/people smuggling and kidnapping. And they've got a lot of money.

Al Quaeda's biggest funder is various members of the Saudi royal family but there are so many wealthy people in Saudi and the Gulf states who donate money to Islamist terrorist groups that there's no problem for any bunch of guys who want to cause the west trouble gettting funding.

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Originally Posted by Mars_ax

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

First I heard about this was a local newscast tonight. Sounds like it was centered around a failed hostage rescue but they are pretty tight lipped so far. Figures with the number of citizens they have in the immediate region they feel the urge to actually do something but I'd be hesitant to stand to close with them mainly because you have to think they'll secure their own interest and hop on the next plane out, rebels taking dirt naps or not.

---

When was the last time the French won a war, when Napoleon was there? There's several thousand French citizens living in Southern Mali, other then that I can't see why France would give a fuck about being in that desert shithole.

---

The French citizens are running French companies out there. It's the French companies insisting the French government does something about their investments that made the French bomb the rebels. Otherwise they'd just evacuate their people like western countries do in conflict countries where we don't have investments.

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

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Originally Posted by Mars_ax

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

First I heard about this was a local newscast tonight. Sounds like it was centered around a failed hostage rescue but they are pretty tight lipped so far. Figures with the number of citizens they have in the immediate region they feel the urge to actually do something but I'd be hesitant to stand to close with them mainly because you have to think they'll secure their own interest and hop on the next plane out, rebels taking dirt naps or not.

---

When was the last time the French won a war, when Napoleon was there? There's several thousand French citizens living in Southern Mali, other then that I can't see why France would give a fuck about being in that desert shithole.

---

The French citizens are running French companies out there. It's the French companies insisting the French government does something about their investments that made the French bomb the rebels. Otherwise they'd just evacuate their people like western countries do in conflict countries where we don't have investments.

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:embarassed: Excusez mon impolitesse M.

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Originally Posted by Andre

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

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Originally Posted by Mars_ax

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

First I heard about this was a local newscast tonight. Sounds like it was centered around a failed hostage rescue but they are pretty tight lipped so far. Figures with the number of citizens they have in the immediate region they feel the urge to actually do something but I'd be hesitant to stand to close with them mainly because you have to think they'll secure their own interest and hop on the next plane out, rebels taking dirt naps or not.

---

When was the last time the French won a war, when Napoleon was there? There's several thousand French citizens living in Southern Mali, other then that I can't see why France would give a fuck about being in that desert shithole.

---

The French citizens are running French companies out there. It's the French companies insisting the French government does something about their investments that made the French bomb the rebels. Otherwise they'd just evacuate their people like western countries do in conflict countries where we don't have investments.

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:embarassed: Excusez mon impolitesse M.

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Aucun problème. :)

Merci

Tish, you spoke french! :D

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

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Originally Posted by VictorCharlie

Spend some time with the French in Kapisa Province Kirk and you will understand what I'm talking about.

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I imagine they were extremely pissed off to be there and were loath to put their lives at risk for no good reason.

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You'd be wrong. The average French Soldier I worked with was dedicated and brave. Unfortunately their politicians and senior leaders neutered them with absurd rules of engagement which led to them getting trounced or just ignored every time they left their base.

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Originally Posted by VictorCharlie

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

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Originally Posted by VictorCharlie

Spend some time with the French in Kapisa Province Kirk and you will understand what I'm talking about.

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I imagine they were extremely pissed off to be there and were loath to put their lives at risk for no good reason.

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You'd be wrong. The average French Soldier I worked with was dedicated and brave.

Unfortunately their politicians and senior leaders neutered them with absurd rules of engagement which led to them getting trounced or just ignored every time they left their base.

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I imagine the first four words all go with the job description naturally.

The next sentence for the most part I imagine goes with the territory, in each countries services where ever they are and for each countries leaders who ever they are.

To a certain extent I agree Andre. I joined the military during a time of conflict with the full understanding that I would be going into harms way. Because of this I don't really feel I have the right to complain about it. Soldiers join for lots of reasons but they fight for each other. No one dodges bullets for the idea of patriotism or bringing freedom to some far off land. You do it b/c it is your sworn duty and to make sure that guy or gal to your left and right goes home. I expect my government to equip and train me to fight and then to let me execute my duties the best I can. For the most part this has been the case. While I haven't always agreed with the strategic or national goals of the conflicts I've take part in, I've always been given the resources I needed to accomplish my mission and bring my boys home. The French were sending their boys to Afghanistan then putting so many constraints on them they were not able to own their battlespace. They kept getting punched in the nose b/c they weren't allowed to do their job as it should be done.

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Originally Posted by VictorCharlie

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

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Originally Posted by VictorCharlie

Spend some time with the French in Kapisa Province Kirk and you will understand what I'm talking about.

---

I imagine they were extremely pissed off to be there and were loath to put their lives at risk for no good reason.

---

You'd be wrong. The average French Soldier I worked with was dedicated and brave. Unfortunately their politicians and senior leaders neutered them with absurd rules of engagement which led to them getting trounced or just ignored every time they left their base.

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I think the British were in the same boat. I think it's just the general staff trying to figure out how to do counterinsurgency best. I don't think it makes much difference if you decide to be as nice as possible or you just shoot fuck out of everything at every opportunity, counterinsurgency doesn't work.

COIN doesn't work long term w/o a good host nation partner but a combatant commander can definately make real short term progess against an insurgency with the right assets and leadership.

I'm sure citizens of Mali would appreciate armed French invaders targeting "Islamist rebels" within their nations boundaries.

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Mars AX is an idiot. He suddenly thinks we are worried about the French. What a wanker.

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God, you're good.

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Originally Posted by VictorCharlie

COIN doesn't work long term w/o a good host nation partner but a combatant commander can definately make real short term progess against an insurgency with the right assets and leadership.

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It doesn't really matter in the short term though. It's only worth doing if it works in the long term and I can't think of anywhere the west managed to do it effectively. I read something back during the Iraq situation that said the Brits had managed it in malaysia a hundred and odd years ago but that was only because they'd already been there over a century and had a lot of local knowledge/ties etc.

We keep picking shitty partners

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Originally Posted by VictorCharlie

We keep picking shitty partners

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"Im your Huckleberry". :cowboy:

So we're now being told that a bunch of beardy nutters with guns in North Africa is somehow an existential threat to Britain and will require a generational struggle to deal with. Or it could be that countries around Mali contain lots of oil, gas, uranium and other goodies vital for European/US economies and we've decided to send troops/special forces/drones in to keep an eye on them despite the fact that this will cause an increase in terrorist incidents. Then when the terrorist incidents happen we'll use them as an excuse to continue being there. Fantastic.

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

So we're now being told that a bunch of beardy nutters with guns in North Africa is somehow an existential threat to Britain and will require a generational struggle to deal with. Or it could be that countries around Mali contain lots of oil, gas, uranium and other goodies vital for European/US economies and we've decided to send troops/special forces/drones in to keep an eye on them despite the fact that this will cause an increase in terrorist incidents. Then when the terrorist incidents happen we'll use them as an excuse to continue being there. Fantastic.

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Mali's oil production isn't commercially viable, but it's neighbor Nigeria has oil, the British discovered oil in the Niger Delta in the late 1950s. Algeria, another neighboring country also has oil and it's one of the major oil and gas producing countries in Africa. So good analysis Kirkland, what it really boils down to is oil, maybe we should thank the Islamic militants and/or "terrorists" for supplying us with incidents. Let's keep that fucking oil flowing. ;)

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Originally Posted by Mars_ax

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

So we're now being told that a bunch of beardy nutters with guns in North Africa is somehow an existential threat to Britain and will require a generational struggle to deal with. Or it could be that countries around Mali contain lots of oil, gas, uranium and other goodies vital for European/US economies and we've decided to send troops/special forces/drones in to keep an eye on them despite the fact that this will cause an increase in terrorist incidents. Then when the terrorist incidents happen we'll use them as an excuse to continue being there. Fantastic.

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Mali's oil production isn't commercially viable, but it's neighbor Nigeria has oil, the British discovered oil in the Niger Delta in the late 1950s. Algeria, another neighboring country also has oil and it's one of the major oil and gas producing countries in Africa. So good analysis Kirkland, what it really boils down to is oil, maybe we should thank the Islamic militants and/or "terrorists" for supplying us with incidents. Let's keep that fucking oil flowing. ;)

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Libya too. Massive quantities there and we were banned from access when Gaddafi was in power. Go figure. A lot of the guys fighting in Mali used to be members of Gaddafi's army believe it or not. When we fucked Gaddafi they headed home and joined up with the Islamist groups there, and the Mali groups are headed by Algerians/Moroccans and operate all over the region. It's going to be impossible to protect all those oil/gas facilities and even more impossible to protect all that pipeline. Luckily most of these groups are crooks first and Islamists second and we'll be able to continue bribing them, otherwise we're fucked and looking at $200+ a barrel.


Also Niger supplies a big chunk of the world's uranium including all of France's. Massive quantities of natural gas in these countries too.

I guess I'll start working on my French since North Africa is looking like my next vacation spot for Uncle Sam. That ought to be easier than Iraqi bastardized Arabic and Pashtun.

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

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Originally Posted by Mars_ax

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

So we're now being told that a bunch of beardy nutters with guns in North Africa is somehow an existential threat to Britain and will require a generational struggle to deal with. Or it could be that countries around Mali contain lots of oil, gas, uranium and other goodies vital for European/US economies and we've decided to send troops/special forces/drones in to keep an eye on them despite the fact that this will cause an increase in terrorist incidents. Then when the terrorist incidents happen we'll use them as an excuse to continue being there. Fantastic.

---

Mali's oil production isn't commercially viable, but it's neighbor Nigeria has oil, the British discovered oil in the Niger Delta in the late 1950s. Algeria, another neighboring country also has oil and it's one of the major oil and gas producing countries in Africa. So good analysis Kirkland, what it really boils down to is oil, maybe we should thank the Islamic militants and/or "terrorists" for supplying us with incidents. Let's keep that fucking oil flowing. ;)

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Libya too. Massive quantities there and we were banned from access when Gaddafi was in power. Go figure. A lot of the guys fighting in Mali used to be members of Gaddafi's army believe it or not. When we fucked Gaddafi they headed home and joined up with the Islamist groups there, and the Mali groups are headed by Algerians/Moroccans and operate all over the region. It's going to be impossible to protect all those oil/gas facilities and even more impossible to protect all that pipeline. Luckily most of these groups are crooks first and Islamists second and we'll be able to continue bribing them, otherwise we're fucked and looking at $200+ a barrel.


Also Niger supplies a big chunk of the world's uranium including all of France's. Massive quantities of natural gas in these countries too.

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Mali and the region around it are going to be the new jump-off/hot spot for Islamic nutters for the next 10+ years. They can wreak havoc there as well as in Western Europe, praise Allah and bring on those 70 virgins.

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Originally Posted by VictorCharlie

I guess I'll start working on my French since North Africa is looking like my next vacation spot for Uncle Sam. That ought to be easier than Iraqi bastardized Arabic and Pashtun.

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I remember my male high school French teacher being rather fruity and I wasn't a very good student. My classmates and I viewed him with amusement. I can still recall how to ask in French, "how do I get to the library?": Comment faire pour la bibliothèque ?

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Originally Posted by Andre

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Originally Posted by VictorCharlie

We keep picking shitty partners

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"Im your Huckleberry". :cowboy:

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(I was speaking on behalf of the Australian diggers here)

We are like The Doc Holiday version, backing up Wyatt, come what may. :cowboy:

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Originally Posted by Mars_ax

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

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Originally Posted by Mars_ax

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

So we're now being told that a bunch of beardy nutters with guns in North Africa is somehow an existential threat to Britain and will require a generational struggle to deal with. Or it could be that countries around Mali contain lots of oil, gas, uranium and other goodies vital for European/US economies and we've decided to send troops/special forces/drones in to keep an eye on them despite the fact that this will cause an increase in terrorist incidents. Then when the terrorist incidents happen we'll use them as an excuse to continue being there. Fantastic.

---

Mali's oil production isn't commercially viable, but it's neighbor Nigeria has oil, the British discovered oil in the Niger Delta in the late 1950s. Algeria, another neighboring country also has oil and it's one of the major oil and gas producing countries in Africa. So good analysis Kirkland, what it really boils down to is oil, maybe we should thank the Islamic militants and/or "terrorists" for supplying us with incidents. Let's keep that fucking oil flowing. ;)

---

Libya too. Massive quantities there and we were banned from access when Gaddafi was in power. Go figure. A lot of the guys fighting in Mali used to be members of Gaddafi's army believe it or not. When we fucked Gaddafi they headed home and joined up with the Islamist groups there, and the Mali groups are headed by Algerians/Moroccans and operate all over the region. It's going to be impossible to protect all those oil/gas facilities and even more impossible to protect all that pipeline. Luckily most of these groups are crooks first and Islamists second and we'll be able to continue bribing them, otherwise we're fucked and looking at $200+ a barrel.


Also Niger supplies a big chunk of the world's uranium including all of France's. Massive quantities of natural gas in these countries too.

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Mali and the region around it are going to be the new jump-off/hot spot for Islamic nutters for the next 10+ years. They can wreak havoc there as well as in Western Europe, praise Allah and bring on those 70 virgins.

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Since we went into Afghanistan we've had Mali, Yemen and Chad turn into failed states, Somalia to get even worse and half a dozen other that have had coups that leave weak governments facing threats from jihadi groups (like Mali). While we fuck around in North Africa for a decade another dozen countries will become potential jihadi themeparks as well. What are we supposed to do, invade all of them? Will the ones we do send troops to resolve themselves as successfully as Afghanistan where the Taliban will run the show again the minute we leave?

No, it's all bollocks. But amazingly after a decade of Afghanistan the British Prime Minister can stand up with a straight face and say that beardy nutters in North Africa represent an existential threat to Britain -- that they threaten the existence of the country -- and nobody in parliament of the media call bullshit, nobody gets upset.

We'll do next to nothing in places that don't have any goodies and keep total disaster at bay in goodies countries to the extent we can still get the goodies out. And we'll be partnered with all kinds of military dictators, sumbags and crooks while we do it while all the time talking about bringing them democracy.

(Reuters) - France has ordered special forces to protect uranium sites run by French-owned Areva in Niger as the threat of attacks on its interests rises after its intervention against rebels in Mali, a military source said on Thursday.

[...]

Defense ministry officials declined to comment on the report and Areva said it did not talk about security issues.

France orders special forces to protect Niger uranium: source | Reuters