Seriously would Foreman have fought differently in an Ali rematch?
You'd think he'd learned his lesson and wouldnt be a dope again. I say Archie Moore or somebody takes him aside, gives him a slap, and re-tools him like they did well Gil Clancy did a good job after that and George was jabbing like a jack-hammer and throwing great STRAIGHT punches---watch the lyle fight and Dino Dennis and Jimmy YOung fights---George is like a different fighter---see the way he patiently boxes Frazier in the rematch too---Howard Cosell points out in amazement how straight Foreman is throwing his punches compared to those wide arm shots that Ali was mocking him for b4 Zaire.
Do you think Big George could pull it together and win a rematch? I do. Remeber Ali had already lost to Frazier and Norton by that time and took a severe beating (contrary to popular belief) in Zaire--I mean severe--he was really hurt inside, heart was swollen, kidneys were contused, blood in the urine and bladder I think was also bruised from George's bladder shots. as Ali laid on the ropes roping the dope. No way does Ali's body go through another 8 rounds of pounding like that.
Re: Seriously would Foreman have fought differently in an Ali rematch?
After 75 Ali loses.
Before that he has a chance and I think he'd beat Foreman again. Remember the psychological toll that loss had on George ... he lost to an old man past his prime when he was at his peak and just came off two huge wins against Norton and Frazier. Jimmy Young clowned him .. Ali took his heart out with that victory and devastated his psyche.
Re: Seriously would Foreman have fought differently in an Ali rematch?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
You'd think he'd learned his lesson and wouldnt be a dope again. I say Archie Moore or somebody takes him aside, gives him a slap, and re-tools him like they did well Gil Clancy did a good job after that and George was jabbing like a jack-hammer and throwing great STRAIGHT punches---watch the lyle fight and Dino Dennis and Jimmy YOung fights---George is like a different fighter---see the way he patiently boxes Frazier in the rematch too---Howard Cosell points out in amazement how straight Foreman is throwing his punches compared to those wide arm shots that Ali was mocking him for b4 Zaire.
Do you think Big George could pull it together and win a rematch? I do. Remeber Ali had already lost to Frazier and Norton by that time and took a severe beating (contrary to popular belief) in Zaire--I mean severe--he was really hurt inside, heart was swollen, kidneys were contused, blood in the urine and bladder I think was also bruised from George's bladder shots. as Ali laid on the ropes roping the dope. No way does Ali's body go through another 8 rounds of pounding like that.
No way George fights Ali the same way in a 2nd fight.
Good point.
Re: Seriously would Foreman have fought differently in an Ali rematch?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
You'd think he'd learned his lesson and wouldnt be a dope again. I say Archie Moore or somebody takes him aside, gives him a slap, and re-tools him like they did well Gil Clancy did a good job after that and George was jabbing like a jack-hammer and throwing great STRAIGHT punches---watch the lyle fight and Dino Dennis and Jimmy YOung fights---George is like a different fighter---see the way he patiently boxes Frazier in the rematch too---Howard Cosell points out in amazement how straight Foreman is throwing his punches compared to those wide arm shots that Ali was mocking him for b4 Zaire.
Do you think Big George could pull it together and win a rematch? I do. Remeber Ali had already lost to Frazier and Norton by that time and took a severe beating (contrary to popular belief) in Zaire--I mean severe--he was really hurt inside, heart was swollen, kidneys were contused, blood in the urine and bladder I think was also bruised from George's bladder shots. as Ali laid on the ropes roping the dope. No way does Ali's body go through another 8 rounds of pounding like that.
Actually no I don't and people call Joe Calzaghe slap happy. Big George got away with clubbing people into submission in his early career and it was not until Young made him find God and go on a 7 year hiatus that he actually returned as a boxer/puncher. In addition Ali was in his head as bad as he was Liston's and imo would have been in more control in a second.
Re: Seriously would Foreman have fought differently in an Ali rematch?
If Foreman and his management thought he would have won he would have tried to make the fight. Ali fought some tough fighters after the Rumble and Foreman was taking on lesser fighters which says that he was not emotionally right to win the rematch. The more experienced head Foreman that came back in the 80’s and 90’s with the young body 70’s would have probably won the first fight never mind a return.
Re: Seriously would Foreman have fought differently in an Ali rematch?
I love Ali ..... but he conned Foreman and got into his head, thats why he won that fight. Thats a one-time con trick and Foreman would not have fallen for it again. Ali pulled off the most outrageous stroke on George, the sheer nerve of the man is unbelievable. But Ali never spoke about a rematch and I think he wanted no part of a young tiger like that if he could avoid it (at that stage of his career)
Logic says that Foreman would probably have won the rematch.
Re: Seriously would Foreman have fought differently in an Ali rematch?
Ali was talking about fighting both Frazier and Foreman in the same night after he beat Foreman.
Foreman losing to Young and losing his heart for boxing is what made this rematch not happen ... add in Ali's advancing age too.
Foreman was emotionally distraught.
Re: Seriously would Foreman have fought differently in an Ali rematch?
i believe that was one of those fights where everything just goes right for a fighter in the build up and on the night
i think 9 times out of 10 at the time of the fight George would have won
Re: Seriously would Foreman have fought differently in an Ali rematch?
Ali fought Frazier a third time before George did so he still had enough in the tank to beat George again.
Re: Seriously would Foreman have fought differently in an Ali rematch?
Good thread.
He would definitely have fought different but the bigger question would have been could he have come back with the ability to fight a more disciplined fight and stick to a different style for as long as it lasts.
Had he have boxed Ali and not been hell bent on the KO he could have won first time round.
When we were kings is one of my favourite documentaries if not my favourite. Really shows what a huge event it was and how no one gave Ali a chance and you could see he was up against it but he used his fear to motivate himself. Wish I could have been around to watch the build up and the fight as it happened.
Re: Seriously would Foreman have fought differently in an Ali rematch?
I don't know. I'm not convinced that he would have. I'm a little suprised at how some are so certain he does. There was nothing flukish or magic trick about that as Ali was winning rounds and setting the table before the bell even sounded. George did well to refine his delivery but doing it vs a Frazier he already destroyed and Young is worlds apart from a guy who mentally and physically left him in a heap. And it didn't work out to well with Young. Ali might not have been so fresh but he could still beat Foreman to the punch, actually out muscled him and had the adaptability. I love me some Foreman but I think he would start off 'boxing' but once he started hearing the constant gibberish and getting his head snapped he would revert to what he lived and died by, raw concussive and relenting power shots. I cannot help but think the memory of that first defeat would be the 800lb gorilla in the room. George was wound as tight as a steel spring and a
Re: Seriously would Foreman have fought differently in an Ali rematch?
George was fooled completely by Ali who was throwing right leads all night and throwing combinations directly after. (see 30 seconds into round 1, see final 10 seconds of round 3) George was spent before Ali began the rope a dope tactics in full by round 4. George fought the same way as he did against Frazier, the difference being Ali was just as big as he was. Ali always did well against opponents who were his size (Williams and Terrell) Frazier was difficult for Ali because of Frazier's constant head movement and his ducking and weaving, he had further to go to hit Frazier while George was right there in front of him at the perfect height to have his face pummeled. Big George did not have the defensive skills to avoid this and Ali knew it and exploited it in the ring. George was an easy target. Ali's tactics were risky, firing off right hand leads could've led to disaster, but George was not equipped well enough to handle it and adapt.
Ali was landing those right leads at will as George was standing right in front of him and i have a picture on my wall that moves faster than big George so he was getting hit regularly, while Foreman was relying totally on brute strength to wear Ali down. It didn't work as he expended all of his energy by mid fight and was knocked out in 8. In any rematch big George would've needed to find another game plan. Ali was a very smart boxer and tactical fighter, he did his homework, while he was working out the poems and the pre fight rhetoric i believe he was a man who was working out his opponent a lot more than people gave him credit for at the time. Many boxing scribes actually believed Ali's life was in danger in this fight, yet Ali was already telling anybody prepared to listen at the time exactly how to fight big George. " Here comes George with a left.........here comes George with a right............."
Re: Seriously would Foreman have fought differently in an Ali rematch?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
You'd think he'd learned his lesson and wouldnt be a dope again. I say Archie Moore or somebody takes him aside, gives him a slap, and re-tools him like they did well Gil Clancy did a good job after that and George was jabbing like a jack-hammer and throwing great STRAIGHT punches---watch the lyle fight and Dino Dennis and Jimmy YOung fights---George is like a different fighter---see the way he patiently boxes Frazier in the rematch too---Howard Cosell points out in amazement how straight Foreman is throwing his punches compared to those wide arm shots that Ali was mocking him for b4 Zaire.
Do you think Big George could pull it together and win a rematch? I do. Remeber Ali had already lost to Frazier and Norton by that time and took a severe beating (contrary to popular belief) in Zaire--I mean severe--he was really hurt inside, heart was swollen, kidneys were contused, blood in the urine and bladder I think was also bruised from George's bladder shots. as Ali laid on the ropes roping the dope. No way does Ali's body go through another 8 rounds of pounding like that.
Actually no I don't and people call Joe Calzaghe slap happy. Big George got away with clubbing people into submission in his early career and
it was not until Young made him find God and go on a 7 year hiatus that he actually returned as a boxer/puncher. In addition Ali was in his head as bad as he was Liston's and imo would have been in more control in a second.
Yup, "Big" George started his ministry after a religious experience that took place in his dressing room after losing to Jimmy Young in 1977.
Re: Seriously would Foreman have fought differently in an Ali rematch?
I would 100% take Big George in a rematch. If he paced himself I think he could even have stopped Ali in the later rounds.
But that's all irrelevant, they had one fight and Ali won when it counted.
Re: Seriously would Foreman have fought differently in an Ali rematch?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE THIRD MAN
George was fooled completely by Ali who was throwing right leads all night and throwing combinations directly after. (see 30 seconds into round 1, see final 10 seconds of round 3) George was spent before Ali began the rope a dope tactics in full by round 4. George fought the same way as he did against Frazier, the difference being Ali was just as big as he was. Ali always did well against opponents who were his size (Williams and Terrell) Frazier was difficult for Ali because of Frazier's constant head movement and his ducking and weaving, he had further to go to hit Frazier while George was right there in front of him at the perfect height to have his face pummeled. Big George did not have the defensive skills to avoid this and Ali knew it and exploited it in the ring. George was an easy target. Ali's tactics were risky, firing off right hand leads could've led to disaster, but George was not equipped well enough to handle it and adapt.
Ali was landing those right leads at will as George was standing right in front of him and i have a picture on my wall that moves faster than big George so he was getting hit regularly, while Foreman was relying totally on brute strength to wear Ali down. It didn't work as he expended all of his energy by mid fight and was knocked out in 8. In any rematch big George would've needed to find another game plan. Ali was a very smart boxer and tactical fighter, he did his homework, while he was working out the poems and the pre fight rhetoric i believe he was a man who was working out his opponent a lot more than people gave him credit for at the time. Many boxing scribes actually believed Ali's life was in danger in this fight, yet Ali was already telling anybody prepared to listen at the time exactly how to fight big George. " Here comes George with a left.........here comes George with a right............."
George fought an idiotic fight against Ali, remember though he was only 25, and by that time Ali was a wiley old veteran. If you've ever been in a fight, even a street fight and "punched yourself out" you'd get an idea how Foreman might have felt. You're spent and/or got nothing left, and your opponent pretty much has you at his mercy.
Re: Seriously would Foreman have fought differently in an Ali rematch?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
You'd think he'd learned his lesson and wouldnt be a dope again. I say Archie Moore or somebody takes him aside, gives him a slap, and re-tools him like they did well Gil Clancy did a good job after that and George was jabbing like a jack-hammer and throwing great STRAIGHT punches---watch the lyle fight and Dino Dennis and Jimmy YOung fights---George is like a different fighter---see the way he patiently boxes Frazier in the rematch too---Howard Cosell points out in amazement how straight Foreman is throwing his punches compared to those wide arm shots that Ali was mocking him for b4 Zaire.
Do you think Big George could pull it together and win a rematch? I do. Remeber Ali had already lost to Frazier and Norton by that time and took a severe beating (contrary to popular belief) in Zaire--I mean severe--he was really hurt inside, heart was swollen, kidneys were contused, blood in the urine and bladder I think was also bruised from George's bladder shots. as Ali laid on the ropes roping the dope. No way does Ali's body go through another 8 rounds of pounding like that.
I doubt that Ali wanted a rematch with Foreman, and oddly enough, I don't recall Foreman pushing for one either, he seemed totally demoralized. I do believe that George was more then capable of winning the 1st fight, as well as a rematch.
Re: Seriously would Foreman have fought differently in an Ali rematch?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
You'd think he'd learned his lesson and wouldnt be a dope again. I say Archie Moore or somebody takes him aside, gives him a slap, and re-tools him like they did well Gil Clancy did a good job after that and George was jabbing like a jack-hammer and throwing great STRAIGHT punches---watch the lyle fight and Dino Dennis and Jimmy YOung fights---George is like a different fighter---see the way he patiently boxes Frazier in the rematch too---Howard Cosell points out in amazement how straight Foreman is throwing his punches compared to those wide arm shots that Ali was mocking him for b4 Zaire.
Do you think Big George could pull it together and win a rematch? I do. Remeber Ali had already lost to Frazier and Norton by that time and took a severe beating (contrary to popular belief) in Zaire--I mean severe--he was really hurt inside, heart was swollen, kidneys were contused, blood in the urine and bladder I think was also bruised from George's bladder shots. as Ali laid on the ropes roping the dope. No way does Ali's body go through another 8 rounds of pounding like that.
I doubt that Ali wanted a rematch with Foreman, and oddly enough, I don't recall Foreman pushing for one either, he seemed totally demoralized. I do believe that George was more then capable of winning the 1st fight, as well as a rematch.
George didn't fight again until Janaury 1976 in a very difficult fight with Ron Lyle, by this time Ali had gone through the Thriller In Manila and should've retired. Any realistic re match needed to have occurred in 1975 before Ali fought Frazier a 3rd time, big George was simply not ready at this time and was never quite the same dominant force again. The Jimmy Young loss saw him retire at age 27, way too soon. He lost all confidence after that. It's a shame as i have always liked big George, his demolition of Frazier is one of the most extraordinary performances in Heavyweight history and i wonder how Larry Holmes would've handled big George?
