Slip Bags and an Alternative

Slip bags (you know, like Tyson?) I see people using or talking about every now and then. Its definitely an interesting concept. Basically is small bladder that is hung at about forehead level which swings from side to side. Who likes these things? I think they are the most useless bag in the entire punching bag family. If you stick around here long enough you will hear Grey saying A. how the bag is pretty ineffective at teaching proper slipping and B. because when you slip a punch you must slip the length of the punch with your body not just with your neck. Its kind of his 1-2 punch.

Anyway I think he is right. I also would like to add that the bag is nothing like a punch. There are no punches in boxing that come remotely close to being simulated by the movements of this bag. I used to have a training tool which I used to practice slipping. It was a stick. Literally, just a stick. Let me explain. The stick is used to represent either a jab or a right hand. To this extent it did very well. I would place it on a wall so that it was pointing at my face at around eye level. The stick was roughly the length of an opponent's arm. I would practice several counters on it using the stick to simulate an opponent's jab and imagining the rest of his body with my mind. This way I could practice slipping his jab, the full length of his jab, and following through with the actual counter punches after the slip using his arm (the stick) as a indicator to know how the rest of his body looks.

I could place the stick so that it was higher and pointing down towards my face to simulate a taller opponent jabbing down at me. I could place the stick lower to simulate a shorter opponent jabbing up at me. I could place the stick at around hip level and have it pointing up at my face to simulate a rising jab.

I think its a great tool to train on because it gives you the feeling of always having a jab in your face. Literally you become very comfortable with an opponent throwing his jab at your face because through practicing slipping on the stick jabs have practically become an extension of your face. Or at least thats how it feels. That sounds kind of like it hurts but its actually a good thing and will make you more comfortable when opponents throw jabs and right at you.

Good Post Thomas. CC

It's funny, but I came across that idea too, but not even close the extent that you have taken it. I came to the idea differently, my reasoning was that the a string that went across the ring/room was inadaquate in teaching for bobbing and weaving. For one it could not simulate a punch, and on the other hand the slipping motion was much more exaggerated than the slight slipping motion that was all that was needed to dodge a punch. I think Grey brought it up when talking about Eddie Futch using the string across the ring as a training aid to prepare Frazier for Ali. It worked for Frazier, because of the physical qualities of both of those fighters, and mainly Ali's fighting style.

I thought a stick on a string would be a good idea because it would be a lot more like a punch instead of a fixed object like the string. Hence I would have to slip or move out of the way of the stick, while with a string I'd be moving around it. I messed with the idea a couple of times but never persued it. Reading your ideas makes me want to go over it again.

Anyways, I never really got into the slip bag craze, or even considered using it after trying it a few times. It felt awkward and just like you said it's nothing like a punch. I look at it now as an just an ego boost for someone to say, "This is what Tyson did!"

I've tried the string before it feels almost as awkward as the slip bag! I think ultimately because it not like an arm. The stick is the closet thing you can get to an arm without actually being an arm.

Dont laugh at me but I like to put a glove at the end of the stick. Makes it feel very real.

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Originally Posted by Chris N.

I thought a stick on a string would be a good idea because it would be a lot more like a punch instead of a fixed object like the string. Hence I would have to slip or move out of the way of the stick, while with a string I'd be moving around it. I messed with the idea a couple of times but never persued it. Reading your ideas makes me want to go over it again.

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Hmmm thats a really interesting idea. The only problem is in ensuring the way the stick would move. It cant move from side to side. It would have to come forward like a real jab or right hand. To make sure it swings forward well would be tricky and you would probably need to attach the stick to a pendulum like machine.

Either that or attach it to a piston so that it could pump the stick towards you repeatedly.

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Originally Posted by ThomasTabin

The stick is the closet thing you can get to an arm without actually being an arm.

Dont laugh at me but I like to put a glove at the end of the stick. Makes it feel very real.

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What's funny is that you're not alone on that one. ;D

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Originally Posted by ThomasTabin

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Originally Posted by Chris N.

I thought a stick on a string would be a good idea because it would be a lot more like a punch instead of a fixed object like the string. Hence I would have to slip or move out of the way of the stick, while with a string I'd be moving around it. I messed with the idea a couple of times but never persued it. Reading your ideas makes me want to go over it again.

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Hmmm thats a really interesting idea. The only problem is in ensuring the way the stick would move. It cant move from side to side. It would have to come forward like a real jab or right hand. To make sure it swings forward well would be tricky and you would probably need to attach the stick to a pendulum like machine.

Either that or attach it to a piston so that it could pump the stick towards you repeatedly.

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I like the piston idea. I'm sure it would add another aspect of realism since you'd be working that much harder to keep your nose from getting flattened.

When I messed with the stick idea, I just tied a string onto both ends of the stick, and pushed it so it would swing like some of the signs that hang from the ceilings of some department stores that was near some air vent.

Was it coming forwards towards you like a jab or was it just spinning around?

I'm sure that I'm not alone on this, but I also thought about having a partner hold a long stick with a boxing glove attached to the end, shooting straight punches at you. The problem with this that I thought is why not just have your friend put on the gloves himself and then you could practice slipping punches. The other problem is that you can't practice alone that way.

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Originally Posted by ThomasTabin

Was it coming forwards towards you like a jab or was it just spinning around?

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It was coming straight at me.

Ever tried two towels with knots in them partner has to know what hes doing thougth.

Yeah the slip bag doesn't really allow for you to slip properly more of a dodge. If you see tyson using it he dodged it for a bit then weaved after a couple. I like the stick idea, might have to try find a way to make it poke out at you, now that would be handy and defently help you learn how to slip without a partner!

Tried two towels like scrap said. Tried using a line tried the bag, but found nothing as helpful as a partner helping.

this could mean any punch couldnt it? Like if you got on this inside and you always had a hard time with something like a right uppercut. Would it help to make an "uppercut stick"?

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Originally Posted by ThomasTabin

Was it coming forwards towards you like a jab or was it just spinning around?

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This was my idea before: http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/6573/signvsc.jpg

Thinking about it again, I realize how awkward it really since the wires/rods in which it is suspended would get in the way of the counter punch.

Drawing from Thomas's idea here's what I was thinking of earlier today. I could build an apparatus similar to this boom stand-
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/2690/227647.jpg

The height and angle is adjustable, and with an arm that its length can be adjusted, it would allow it to simulate different opponents and straight punches.

then you have a slip stick not slip bag. Nothing will beat a live partner but they're not always there. I think visualisation helps.

I agree with you Missy, nothing beats having someone in front of you. This is just an alternative training tool that can be used at home. Visualization certainly helps, and a "slip stick" just makes it that much easier to imagine a punch that you can slip.

By the way, does anyone train with a "slip rope"? I found that it seems much more to do with weaving than it is for practicing a simple slip.

I did a similar thing with a dummy i use as a heavy bag sometimes i just used 2 broom sticks a lot of gaffer tape and an old boxing glove, it definently helped me while i was learning the basics on countering, havent used it for ages now though only because ive had a consistent sparring partner for the last year, i think theyre a great idea if you have noone to sparr with or work on slipping and countering with.

Here's some videos of a gentleman that invented a piston type punching machine.
The first video is of the inventor going over some of the details of the machine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNkao...eature=channel

Second video is of an experienced boxer giving a demonstration.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKgV2169XBw&feature=channel

Third video, is of the same boxer blocking body punches.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYKTUoSV28o&feature=channel

There are more videos, but thought I would just post these few.

As someone said, nothing beats a real partner, but the real purpose of the slip bag isn't simply to simulate a punch being thrown, but more of an exercise to move the head constantly. Which by the way if you go a few rounds, you'll feel it in your obliques and back muscles.

it should be your legs doing the majority of the work in slips if your back and obliques are doing the work then i doubt you are in a good position to actually counter off the slip, what works best for me is tennis ball on a rope double jab the tennis ball then slip it on its way back left hook, right, left etc. the best thing ive done to learn to slip is during sparring, i just think of it as loading up a counter punch for a punch i suspect is to be thrown at me, then i find you dont overthink things, because your basically just waiting for the first sign of a tell and loading up and fireing rather than thinking about slipping the punch and countering it as seperate movements and having too much forethought going on while trying to mantain your focus on what your opponents going to try next. its more of a different approach on thought rather than an actual drilling exercise, ive been trying to do this with my boxing movements to speed reaction up by other means rather than by physically trying to get faster (which obveousely i do aswell lol), simplifying things in my mind so i can consentrate more on the opponent rather than the seperate movements involved in trying to both successfuly slip a punch and then land a clean counter shot in return. a thread i think herbm started on ask the trainer got me thinking about thoughts while boxing and id never really given it much thought before, im glad i did now as this helps me counter and react so much easier now.

I've previously spoken of my disdain of the century bobs/Slamman, whatever you care to refer to them as, however, here I have found a use for them.

I took one and placed it in the center of the mats. I think took the initiative to drills to big holes straight through ;D This was not out of hatred or my being callous, I had a purpose. I took two broomhandle like poles (longer) and fed them through. I now had four arms extending from the shoulder level. These were wrapped in tape to prevent splinters etc. and a glove was placed at each "fist." Now I may have got the direction slightly wrong, but by placing the man in the center I can move around 360 degrees and utilise various methods of counterpunching attack.